79 réponses à ce sujet

[withateethuh]

When I started playing as a vanguard I was doing terrible because I was used to playing as a soldier and hiding behind cover with my long range weapons, and I kept trying to take my time. Once I started playing more I realized the only way for Vanguard to be effective is to be aggressive and close quarters. Its much more intense than other classes.

Modifié par withateethuh, 03 juillet 2010 - 07:01 .

[Neuzhelin]

Comrade Bork wrote...

Damn fine work, damn fine. I sometimes try stupid things like this on my Vanguard (Claymore). Sometimes it works, sometimes not. The most fun one was charging between the Scions on the IFF mission.

I wouldn't call it stupid as before you charge you have to have a strategy ready.

For instance, if I charge scion and there are some enemies  beside it, I would get really close and shoot if from point blank range while interrupting its AoE explosion by powers of my teammates (pull works, warm explosion works). While doing this, I would use it as a shield to avoid bullets. This is much more effective then hiding behind cover as a vanguard as the scion shockwaves you and your team.

Charge simply opens more strategies and factors to think about.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 03 juillet 2010 - 08:52 .

[Neuzhelin]

The shield recharge (when using Charge) is what's keeping Vanguards alive. The only ability to rival Charge is Energy Drain. Against Geth ED will keep you going, but against 'normal' shielded enemies things are getting worse, but it still is the best 'no cover' power available. Its very effective against YMIR's (as long as they've got their shields up) - ED will fully restore your shields when used against multiple (Area Drain) or powerful foes.

Great video btw - would be nice to see you take on the triple YMIR (save the crates) without Cain of course and at level 30

There will always be only 1 YMIR mech engaging you, the rest are programmed to destroy the crates in the meantime.

I am an awful completionist and unfortunatly the only possible way to save all 20 crates (without glitching with a combat drone: you use the drone, it lures them out without initiating the descruction of crates) has been with the use of Cain.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 03 juillet 2010 - 11:32 .

[Mx_CN3]

How many/which upgrades did you have, out of curiosity?

[ajayatfringefx]

Neuzhelin wrote...

ajayatfringefx wrote...

Nice work. Where are you thinking for putting the rest of your points? On barrier, shockwave or pull...

As you can see barrier is essential in this fighthere as I have it charged up in the beginning. Without having it charged up and having 175% shields I doubt I would have withstood the first charge (at least not without taking health damage).

There is no time to pull off any other ability then unity (I simply don't like it for various reasons skillwise and roleplaying ones and have it removed from my bar all together lately), and this is one of the most challenging fights I've had, hence I see no need for any other bonus skill. In this fight (without hiding behind crates/taking cover) the only ability you have cooldown for is the biotic charge.

As for your question, I am honestly not sure. I might go 2 shockwave 1 pull for more controlled warp explosions or stick with barrier. Besides fights like this, my reasoning behind going barrier is based on enemies you are unable to charge (pretorians, gunships, flying drones or simply ones you can not access because of their spawn location and a specific map design) . You can use the barrier in such encounters when you don't want to hide behind cover and keep shooting. Sure, you can spam medkits without investing a point in it and taking something else but as I said earlier I don't like that and rarely use them for healing/recharging shields.

Thanks, I understand completely with what you mean, I have a similar build, but I was unsure about if it was a good idea to invest in pull and barrier.

[Pacifien]

Always like your creative approach, Neuzhelin.

[Neuzhelin]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

How many/which upgrades did you have, out of curiosity?

Well, time for a reply after 1 week holiday in Turkey.

The most important ones worth mentioning:

Biotic Cooldown, Hard Shields, Shotgun Shield Piercing, AP sniper rifle, Shotgun Damage 4/5, damage protection 4/5, heavy skin weave 5/5.

[Neuzhelin]

withateethuh wrote...

When I started playing as a vanguard I was doing terrible because I was used to playing as a soldier and hiding behind cover with my long range weapons, and I kept trying to take my time. Once I started playing more I realized the only way for Vanguard to be effective is to be aggressive and close quarters. Its much more intense than other classes.

I know what you mean, I only started relying on charge with my first vanguard when I got the Krogan one and had all the relevant skills maxed out. I remember my favourite mission at that time being Thane's recruitment when I realized how effective charge is at knocking enemies into the abyss from the bridge you had to take.

It is a "heavy risk" but the "prize" class and if you can get past the approach anxiety of playing the vanguard offensively, you might very well get it.

[BeresaadSoldier]

Your achievement was easily replicated with Claymore alone.
I'm using destroyer specialization in this vid, Geth Shield Boost lvl 3, miranda and grunt as squadmates (no reave). There's 2 instances where I defeat the mechs, the 2nd one is after I show my build.

Video

Unfortunately the outcome of the fight is based a lot on the enemy AI. If the mechs decide to stick together, it becomes very difficult. The key to winning is the keep them separated with enough room between them so you can hide behind the YMIR when the other one is using its machine gun. Apart from that it's easy to get the hang of it.

[Neuzhelin]

BeresaadSoldier wrote...

Your achievement was easily replicated with Claymore alone.
I'm using destroyer specialization in this vid, Geth Shield Boost lvl 3, miranda and grunt as squadmates (no reave). There's 2 instances where I defeat the mechs, the 2nd one is after I show my build.

Video

Unfortunately the outcome of the fight is based a lot on the enemy AI. If the mechs decide to stick together, it becomes very difficult. The key to winning is the keep them separated with enough room between them so you can hide behind the YMIR when the other one is using its machine gun. Apart from that it's easy to get the hang of it.

I am glad to see people inspired by my videos and strategies. That is my main goal with the videos and posts I create :-)

Good job, even though you relied on the reload "trick" :-)

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 12 juillet 2010 - 09:07 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

You are the vanguard of our descruction it seems.

Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:37 .

[Kronner]

BeresaadSoldier wrote...

Your achievement was easily replicated with Claymore alone.
I'm using destroyer specialization in this vid, Geth Shield Boost lvl 3, miranda and grunt as squadmates (no reave). There's 2 instances where I defeat the mechs, the 2nd one is after I show my build.

Video

Unfortunately the outcome of the fight is based a lot on the enemy AI. If the mechs decide to stick together, it becomes very difficult. The key to winning is the keep them separated with enough room between them so you can hide behind the YMIR when the other one is using its machine gun. Apart from that it's easy to get the hang of it.

Pretty much. You cannot kill 2 mechs that are stacked together with just charge. Medigel/cover is needed, and because the mechs act randomly, you never know. Good to see a fellow Claymore fan, great use of the reload trick too!

[MonkeyKaboom]

That is awesome. A perfect example of why Vanguard is such a great class. I made the "mistake" of playing Vanguard first on ME1 and was never able to get into another class option after that. Everything just seemed tame. I loved Barrier and charging into the mix of things. ME2 just makes it all the more rewarding by redesigning the combat mechanics and then altering Vanguard to fit that mold even more so with charge. I just don't know if I'll be able to pick up another class now though. Especially with advanced weapon and loyalty bonus skills.



On a side note, am I the only one that finds it so overly satisfying to charge head-on into an also charging Krogan? I love that little shake off your head animation, followed by a shotgun blast on lizard boy.

[BeresaadSoldier]

Kronner wrote...

Pretty much. You cannot kill 2 mechs that are stacked together with just charge. Medigel/cover is needed, and because the mechs act randomly, you never know. Good to see a fellow Claymore fan, great use of the reload trick too!

They don't act totally random. In the 2nd instance you can see I'm sending Grunt ahead while I delay my first charge a little bit. I found that Grunt actually takes the aggro of the mech to the far left and keeps its attention. That solves the problem of the 2 mechs in 1 spot. I obviously chose Grunt cause he can take a lot of beating and even though I was missing on an additional warp/reave to destroy the mechs armor, the bonus damage from Destroyer spec made up for it. And the monster damage of the claymore makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. If it was the scimitar, it would run out of ammo while killing the first mech. That's why Neuzhelin had to switch...

@ Neuzhelin: Your strategy works great in that particular mission. I made the video for 2 reasons: 1 - to compare it against yours and solve the "scimitar does more damage than claymore" dispute earlier in the thread. As you can see it's not true cause the YMIR shields drop in 2 shots + an overload. And 2nd reason was to see if Destroyer spec was viable versus heavy armored enemies. Not trying to take anything from your achievement, you figured it out and it worked great for you. I doubt you'd be able to do the same versus a single YMIR or versus the 2 YMIRs in Garrus' recruitment. Kudos though, for presenting us with a cool way to show yet again why the Vanguard is so awesome.

Modifié par BeresaadSoldier, 13 juillet 2010 - 10:07 .

[Kronner]

BeresaadSoldier wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Pretty much. You cannot kill 2 mechs that are stacked together with just charge. Medigel/cover is needed, and because the mechs act randomly, you never know. Good to see a fellow Claymore fan, great use of the reload trick too!

They don't act totally random. In the 2nd instance you can see I'm sending Grunt ahead while I delay my first charge a little bit. I found that Grunt actually takes the aggro of the mech to the far left and keeps its attention. That solves the problem of the 2 mechs in 1 spot. I obviously chose Grunt cause he can take a lot of beating
...

Well, from my experience the mechs sometimes totally ignore my squad and give all their attention to my Shep, though sometimes squadmates can draw its attention. Seemed pretty random to me when I re-loaded several times just to see what the mechs do.

Modifié par Kronner, 13 juillet 2010 - 11:25 .

[Neuzhelin]

UPDATE: Charging 2 YMIR Mechs part 2: Garrus' Loyalty

[Kronner]

So not possible without cover/medigel, right? Pretty much what I thought. Well, too bad.
Maybe Grunt in the middle would last a bit longer.

Medigel is incredibly powerful, not because it just restores your health AND shields, but it gives you an extar second or so of invincibility, when barrier goes down. Better than cover in almost any situation.

Modifié par Kronner, 22 juillet 2010 - 07:07 .

[Neuzhelin]

Kronner wrote...

So not possible without cover/medigel, right? Pretty much what I thought. Well, too bad.
Maybe Grunt in the middle would last a bit longer.

Medigel is incredibly powerful, not because it just restores your health AND shields, but it gives you an extar second or so of invincibility, when barrier goes down. Better than cover in almost any situation.

I am confident that it is possible but every single time I was close something went terribly wrong.
I have gotten the first mech down to health level and the second to armor level and then:

1) I had LOKI Mechs shoot me
2) I had a charge error (no shield generated)
3) I was unable to charge even when the target was just in front of me

Finally I gave up after 30 min of trying and used the damn medigel. The problem with medigel is that it has a small delay where you might die (which I did), so in some situations charging is more beneficial as it is insant. The bonus as you said is the period of time when barriers drop and you are down to health level, sometimes it happens a few times if the damage is too great.

Fortunatly I avoided the cover which is the main point of the video. I might experiment with a few different tactics later as I firmly believe it is possible with the perfect strategy.

P.S. Grunt is irrelevant, you only need your squadmates for distraction between charges #2 and #4.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:28 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

I am confident that it is possible but every single time I was close something went terribly wrong.
I have gotten the first mech down to health level and the second to armor level and then:

1) I had LOKI Mechs shoot me
2) I had a charge error (no shield generated)
3) I was unable to charge even when the target was just in front of me

Finally I gave up after 30 min of trying and used the damn medigel. The problem with medigel is that it has a small delay where you might die (which I did), so in some situations charging is more beneficial as it is insant. The bonus as you said is the period of time when barriers drop and you are down to health level, sometimes it happens a few times if the damage is too great.

Fortunatly I avoided the cover which is the main point of the video. I might experiment with a few different tactics later as I firmly believe it is possible with the perfect strategy.

P.S. Grunt is irrelevant, you only need your squadmates for distraction between charges #2 and #4.

Well, even if you succeeded, would it be worth it? Can it be repeated at any time?
Cover is not really needed for a Vanguard in general (much less than for other classes), but charging 2 mechs with no cover and medigel is just insane, even if someone actually made it, luck would have to play a major role. You said you spent 30 minuets on it, but if you just kill the first mech by a headshot, the second one will most likely explode too, or will be severely damaged (can be headshotted using shotgun too - this might actually work)
Still, it is nice to see some crazy challenges though

btw have you ever tried Kasumis grenade on a mech? Just occured to me, might work, I will try it tomorrow.

Modifié par Kronner, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:41 .

[Neuzhelin]

Well, even if you succeeded, would it be worth it? Can it be repeated at any time?
Cover is not really needed for a Vanguard in general (much less than for other classes), but charging 2 mechs with no cover and medigel is just insane, even if someone actually made it, luck would have to play a major role. You said you spent 30 minuets on it, but if you just kill the first mech by a headshot, the second one will most likely explode too, or will be severely damaged (can be headshotted using shotgun too - this might actually work)
Still, it is nice to see some crazy challenges though

btw have you ever tried Kasumis grenade on a mech? Just occured to me, might work, I will try it tomorrow.

This game is too easy combat wise and a "crazy challenge" is what I am looking for. I have limited time to spend on video games and would rather do something new then hide behind a crate.

I believe Kasumi's grenade will work on the health but not on the armor/shield level. On a personal note, I don't like Kasumi because of her cliché dialogue, she seems as the most undeveloped character to me (besides her loyalty mission, which was decent), hence I never bring her with me.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:50 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

This game is too easy combat wise and a "crazy challenge" is what I am looking for. I have limited time to spend on video games and would rather do something new then hide behind a crate.

Unfortunately, it is true.

Neuzhelin wrote...I believe Kasumi's grenade will work on the health but not on the armor/shield level. On a personal note, I don't like Kasumi because of her cliché dialogue, she seems as the most undeveloped character to me (besides her loyalty mission, which was decent).

Her grenade makes Harbinger unable to attack at all. Never saw the effect it has on a mech. Might be worth a try.

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Neuzhelin wrote...

This game is too easy combat wise and a "crazy challenge" is what I am looking for. I have limited time to spend on video games and would rather do something new then hide behind a crate.

Unfortunately, it is true.

Neuzhelin wrote...I believe Kasumi's grenade will work on the health but not on the armor/shield level. On a personal note, I don't like Kasumi because of her cliché dialogue, she seems as the most undeveloped character to me (besides her loyalty mission, which was decent).

Her grenade makes Harbinger unable to attack at all. Never saw the effect it has on a mech. Might be worth a try.

Interesting, but I don't think it works. But there might be some YMIR weakness to exploit (like with a Geth Prime - I just Claymored 3 of them on Tali's RM solo, wasn't that hard thanks to your tip). I'm looking forward to know if those grenades have some use fighting those them mechs.

@ Neuzhelin: You're really crazy trying to do what you're trying to do though I like it. It's pretty impressive even with medigel, looking forward to see if you can do it without medigel. Barrier can help, it works when Charge and medigel cannot be use when you're hit by a rocket for example.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Interesting, but I don't think it works. But there might be some YMIR weakness to exploit (like with a Geth Prime - I just Claymored 3 of them on Tali's RM solo, wasn't that hard thanks to your tip). I'm looking forward to know if those grenades have some use fighting those them mechs.

@ Neuzhelin: You're really crazy trying to do what you're trying to do though I like it. It's pretty impressive even with medigel, looking forward to see if you can do it without medigel. Barrier can help, it works when Charge and medigel cannot be use when you're hit by a rocket for example.

Yes, but because of the cooldown (much longer than medigel) you would die without cover anyways - unable to Charge or use any other power. IMHO the only way to do it is focus on one mech and finish it off with a headshot thus severely damaging the other mech. But I am not gonna waste time on that

[Spartas Husky]

....sorry kept reading but, I can't find something on it from somebody else... how come your powers recharge at different times? Some recharge before others? Or is that pc related?

[Neuzhelin]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
@ Neuzhelin: You're really crazy trying to do what you're trying to do though I like it. It's pretty impressive even with medigel, looking forward to see if you can do it without medigel. Barrier can help, it works when Charge and medigel cannot be use when you're hit by a rocket for example.

Barrier has its uses. As you pointed out, you can use it when stunned when neither medigel nor charge are usable. Also, I used barrier to have 175% barrier in the beginning to withstand more damage. In one of my other videos I use it when I snipe so I do not have to waste time for cover when taking damage. These are the reasons behind having it as a bonus ability, unfortunatly the problem with it is the long cooldown.

Spartas Husky wrote...
....sorry kept reading but, I can't
find something on it from somebody else... how come your powers
recharge at different times? Some recharge before others? Or is that pc
related?

Different powers have different cooldowns. The default cooldown time for barrier is 12 seconds, charge has a cooldown of 6 secs. These can also be slightly reduced by powers and a certain helmet that I wear.

EDIT: And if you meant concussive shot and overload/warp, those belong to Garrus and Miranda respectively (powers vanguard does not even have)

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 23 juillet 2010 - 10:27 .