79 réponses à ce sujet

[Omicrone]

Those are his squadmates powers recharging at different times than his own. You can see overload reacharging at different times, but that's either Garrus' or Miranda's power on his shortcut bar.

[Neuzhelin]

With a refined strategy I was able to replicate the success without the use of any medkits. In the video (link in the original post) you clearly see my original strategy of using one of the YMIR Mechs to avoid fire.

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

With a refined strategy I was able to replicate the success without the use of any medkits. In the video (link in the original post) you clearly see my original strategy of using one of the YMIR Mechs to avoid fire.

Hm, I like the vid where you used medkits much better. Took you a lot of time to take down the second mech in this last one.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:05 .

[Neuzhelin]

Hm, I like the vid where you used medkits much better. Took you a lot of time to take down the second mech in this last one.

Speed was not really the goal of this one (I have a speedrun on collector platforms where it actually was a goal). The point was taking them down in the open field. Also, there is a hidden global cooldown when you change weapons (disabling the charge for 1-2 secs). I also wanted to avoid pausing the game, so I stuck with whatever weapon I had calmly toying around with the mechs :-)

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:14 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

Speed was not really the goal of this one (I have a speedrun on collector platforms where it actually was a goal). The point was taking them down in the open field. Also, there is a hidden global cooldown when you change weapons (disabling the charge for 1-2 secs). I also wanted to avoid pausing the game, so I stuck with whatever weapon I had calmly toying around with the mechs :-)

Yes, I understand what you were going for, great use of the mech to cover yourself! I just found the first vid to be more entertaining
(because you uploaded it, I just knew how it's gonna end so it was just matter of time and you were killing him kinda slowly)

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:18 .

[Neuzhelin]

Kronner wrote...

Yes, I understand what you were going for, great use of the mech to cover yourself! I just found the first vid to be more entertaining
(because you uploaded it, I just knew how it's gonna end so it was just matter of time and you were killing him kinda slowly)

I have uploaded a glitch that allows you to finish the encounter in roughly 30 secs. We can call it a "Garrus' Loyalty speedrun trick" that may or may not have been placed there intentionally by the devs :-)

(couldn't help it)

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:51 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

I have uploaded a glitch that allows you to finish the encounter in roughly 30 secs. We can call it a "Garrus' Loyalty speedrun trick" that may or may not have been placed there intentionally by the devs :-)

(couldn't help it)

Something like that can be done in many missions (Zaeed, Tali LM etc.)

(especially easily done as Vanguard with SR - couldn't help either )

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:58 .

[Neuzhelin]

Something like that can be done in many missions (Zaeed, Tali LM etc.)

(especially easily done as Vanguard with SR - couldn't help either )

So having sniper rifle equiped (or chosen) is somehow related to this glitch?

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

So having sniper rifle equiped (or chosen) is somehow related to this glitch?

Never said that. 
That was just a remark - as a reaction to your obvious attempt to compare the reload trick (which you find as ridiculous as I do Vanguard with a SR) and skipping enemies.
By the way, I think this is more of a poor level design than anything, Vanguard class can easily take advantage of that, and since there is no XP for killing anyways, it makes it even worse (not just in that mission, in many missions and locations, unfortunately - though you do not lose anything by skipping these mechs, killing them is more fun)

 PS: This post clearly confirms that the reload trick is not a glitch.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juillet 2010 - 05:00 .

[Neuzhelin]

Never said that. 
That was just a remark - as a reaction to your obvious attempt to compare the reload trick (which you find as ridiculous as I do Vanguard with a SR) and skipping enemies.
By the way, I think this is more of a poor level design than anything, Vanguard class can easily take advantage of that, and since there is no XP for killing anyways, it makes it even worse (not just in that mission, in many missions and locations, unfortunately - though you do not lose anything by skipping these mechs, killing them is more fun)

Ah, I see. A remark logically out of place but I guess you had to say something as I was logically comparing one "trick" to another. Besides, I never said it was ridiculous (I do see how increasing ones dps makes sence). I also don't find a SR ridiculous for a spectre/commander but I may be wrong as this is an opinion. Note that it is not my style and/or preference to abuse poorly implemented game mechanics (but to point them out in order to draw attention of the developers). Nevertheless, I understand that you believe an authority figure like a bioware developer that doing a mellee swing to reload is a form for an advanced gameplay (even if the weapon model is pointing in another direction when you fire), hence my comment because skipping these can also be percieved as a form for advanced gameplay (using the same logic). Unfortunatly, I tend to be more source critical and judgemental as I tend to look at the reasons behind developers commenting in ways like that.

I also saw you swear not to discuss this anymore, so I will respect that.

Finally destroying them is more fun which is vanguard all about.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 24 juillet 2010 - 05:15 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...
I also saw you swear not to discuss this anymore, so I will respect that.

In that one thread. Which was later derailed and your post started it all
Also, melee attack does not reload, it merely cancels out 40% of the animation. Just have to say that your opinion on a gameplay mechanic is nothing compared to opinon of the BioWare lead gameplay designer. And she often "abuses poorly implemented gameplay mechanic" herself. I guess she knows nothnig about her own game, maybe she should have just asked you instead. Once again, we are getting nowhere, so I'll just stop.

Neuzhelin wrote...
Finally destroying them is more fun which is vanguard all about.

At least something I can agree on with you.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juillet 2010 - 05:25 .

[Neuzhelin]

Kronner wrote...
In that one thread. Which was later derailed and your post started it all
Also, melee attack does not reload, it merely cancels out 40% of the animation. Just have to say that your opinion on a gameplay mechanic is nothing compared to opinon of the BioWare lead gameplay designer. Once again, we are getting nowhere, so I'll just stop.

And I wouldn't like this thread to be highjacked (like my sniper rifle charge thread ) and thank you for not going that way. I happen to be very visual (as you can see by the words I choose) so those 40% happen to be a turn off for me as it doesn't logically make any sense. Maybe ME2 universe is different and mellee swings do speed up reloading, after all a Bioware lead gameplay designer should know that. A person in that position could not possibly defend (especially preemptively before it was not widely known) something bugged when it is in fact working as intended!

If you read all this and think I am being sarcastic, you shouldn't completely as there actually might be a possibility that reloading and mellee swinging combined should speed up reloading (because you know it makes perfect sense even when the visuals are telling a different story).

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 24 juillet 2010 - 05:27 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...
And I wouldn't like this thread to be highjacked (like my sniper rifle charge thread ) and thank you for not going that way. I happen to be very visual (as you can see by the words I choose) so those 40% happen to be a turn off for me as it doesn't logically make any sense. Maybe ME2 universe is different and mellee swings do speed up reloading, after all a Bioware lead gameplay designer should know that. A person in that position could not possibly defend (especially preemptively before it was not widely known) something bugged when it is in fact working as intended!

If you read all this and think I am being sarcastic, you shouldn't completely as there actually might be a possibility that reloading and mellee swinging combined should speed up reloading (because you know it makes perfect sense even when the visuals are telling a different story).

Defend what? She told everyone about the trick. There was no defending.
You still do not realize that the shell is already in the barrel when Shepard does the melee attack. That means the weapon is loaded but not yet put into default horizontal position. I do not know about you, but when I was serving mandatory time in the army I fired from various positions when moving.
As for visuals, you do realize that the weapon barrel does NOT aim where the crosshair is anyways, right? Third Person Shooter.
I see it as a reward mechanic. I do understand some can't/don't like to use it, but calling it a glitch/cheat is ridiculously self righteous when the person who made the game says its an advanced, tricky to master mechanic.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 juillet 2010 - 05:45 .

[Neuzhelin]

Kronner wrote...

Defend what? She told everyone about the trick. There was no defending.
You still do not realize that the shell is already in the barrel when Shepard does the melee attack. That means the weapon is loaded but not yet put into default horizontal position. As for visuals, you do realize that the weapon barrel does NOT aim where the crosshair is anyways, right?
I see it as a reward mechanic. I do understand some can't/don't like to use it, but calling it a glitch/cheat is ridiculously self righteous when the person who made the game says its an advanced, tricky to master mechanic.

Nobody would ever mellee swing and discover it by accident? Come on you are smarter then that, at least the person that created your only "argument" is. Sooner or later someone would have found out.  There have been many posts about questionable game aspects and many things to exploit, yet this one was revealed by a developer using it (making it special?). Do you think infinite paragon/renegade points are there by accident? Do you honestly believe that after numerous reports and abuses the infinite respec dominate power squad points are going to be fixed? There are many of these subtle and less then honest ways to "reward" yourself with. The only thing I realize about the visuals when interrupting reloading with a swing is that it is not right.
If you feel rewarded for doing it, great! I am not self righteous but I am aware that I want to have a gaming experience without any "tricks" like that. This is my choice and I don't force it on anyone.
Nevertheless, this is not a thread about this "an advanced, tricky to master mechanic" and even if you can't stop discussing this after several stolen threads, please do try and I will appreciate it.

Now, if there are any questions or comments about the videos I posted I will happy to reply to those posts

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 24 juillet 2010 - 06:01 .

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

Nobody would ever mellee swing and discover it by accident? Come on you are smarter then that, at least the person that created your only "argument" is. Sooner or later someone would have found out so as one of many things to exploit this was revealed too only by a developer using it. Do you think infinite paragon/renegade points are there by accident? Do you honestly believe that after numerous reports and abuses the dominate power squad points are going to be fixed? There are many of these subtle and less then honest ways to "reward" yourself with. The only thing I realize about the visuals when interrupting reloading with a swing is that it is not right.
If you feel rewarded for doing it, great! I am not self righteous but I am aware that I want to have a gaming experience without any "tricks" like that. This is my choice and I don't force it on anyone.
Nevertheless, this is not a thread about this "an advanced, tricky to master mechanic" and even if you can't stop discussing this after several stolen threads, please do try and I will appreciate it.

Now, if there are any questions or comments about the videos I posted I will happy to reply to those posts

You started discussing it yourself. Again.

Once again, I perfectly understand that you like Scimitar better, I do not care about that. It is SP game anyways. What irks me is that some people say its a gltich/cheat when it's clearly not.
And your "somebody would find out" argument is laughable. As I said, she uses it herself. She must really suck at the game she made and glitch her way through the game. <_<

[Neuzhelin]

You started discussing it yourself. Again.

Once again, I perfectly understand that you like Scimitar better, I do not care about that. It is SP game anyways. What irks me is that some people say its a gltich/cheat when it's clearly not.
And your "somebody would find out" argument is laughable. As I said, she uses it herself. She must really suck at the game she made and glitch her way through the game. <_<

I made a hint, I was a bit curious how far your promise and swearing on something will go. I shouldn't have.

My point in the post above was that it would have been introduced sooner or later and it is completely irrelevant (for my preferenses) that developers use glitches themselves. I hinted that there are MANY of the major glitches (infinite gold paragon/renegade points, infinite squad points and infinite gold in another Bioware game dragon age) that for some reason go unsolved even when reported. Certain aspects can be exploited but I don't build my playthrough around that. And well, Kronner basicly it all came down to this: "What irks me is that some people say" - your insecurity. "She must really suck at the game she made and glitch her way through the game. " This is what all this is about! No, one donsn't suck for using a glitch in a video game, Kronner. Some people just like to play that way and some don't.

You clearly know it is not an intended reloading function. A regular reload looks nothing like it. A weapon does not function like that. Mellee and reloading together make no sense. Just look at the slow motion video you yourself posted: it has a gun firing forward and the barrel looks out of place. After the "trick" the gun aims up , while the shots go straight. When the weapon is reloading it somehow ends up shooting. You know it looks wrong, I know it looks wrong and yet you keep denying everything.  Denial won't really get this anywhere. As you perfectly put it yourself 1 hour ago: 

Once again, we are getting nowhere, so I'll just stop.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 24 juillet 2010 - 06:48 .

[Kronner]

Edit:
This is my last reply to you (or JaegerBane ) concering the reload trick. I will not ever reply to your potential reaction(s), so don't even bother guys.

Neuzhelin wrote...

I made a hint, I was a bit curious how far your promise and swearing on something will go. I shouldn't have.

I said "in that thread". - I have not posted there ever since. So you are wrong again
Besides, it is you who on purpose starts this arguing every single time. I wanted to stop and you respond in a way that begs for reaction.

Neuzhelin wrote...
My point in the post above was that it would have been introduced sooner or later and it is completely irrelevant (for my preferenses) that developers use glitches themselves. I hinted that there are MANY of the major glitches (infinite gold paragon/renegade points, infinite squad points and infinite gold in another Bioware game dragon age) that for some reason go unsolved even when reported. Certain aspects can be exploited but I don't build my playthrough around that. And well, Kronner basicly it all came down to this: "What irks me is that some people say" - your insecurity. "She must really suck at the game she made and glitch her way through the game. " This is what all this is about! No, one donsn't suck for using a glitch in a video game, Kronner. Some people just like to play that way and some don't.

You bring insecurity into this? It is you who always starts this argument, apparently you are not able to accept I do not share your view on this matter. Talk about insecurity my ass. To be perfectly honest with you, I do not care what you think about the trick. I will keep using (and enjoying) this trick for a long time.  I am defending Christina here, I would not waste my time here otherwise, but you basically claim she lied/lies. While your opinion is apparently perfectly fine and correct. The reload trick can be performed with ALL weapons using ANY power, not just melee attack, but only AFTER the heatsink is in the weapon already, so yeah, there is no way in hell it is a gameplay mechanic or that Shepard can actually shoot as soon as the weapon is loaded <_<.
Glitches in this or other games are irrelevant - no connection to this trick at all. You are NOT gonna convince me about the reloading not making sense. It makes perfect sense to me, no sense to you. That is not gonna change. And yet, it is you who always keep bringing this sh+t up.
So what your barrel aims at a different point than the crosshair, that is the case 100% of the time anyways. If you wanna nitpick, you can basically shred the entire game to pieces. How come Shepard's reload time is constant throughout the game, no difference at all, not even a fraction of a second difference between one million reloads performed with the same weapon. That is not possible in the real world. Must be a glitch.

The whole story in one sentence:
A developer says something, you say it is a BS, because it looks wrong to you and claim that you are right.

That is as self righteous and ridiculous as it gets.


(cannot wait for your conspiracy theories about euphemisms, developer authority figure and all that B.S.;

Using your "logic" if 5 people lived in one house and 4 of them were gay, but the one wasn't and told you so, you would say he is full of sh+t and claim he's gay too because he looks wrong and wears a pink hat.)

Modifié par Kronner, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:33 .

[Simbacca]

Neuzhelin wrote...

...And well, Kronner basicly it all came down to this: "What irks me is that some people say" - your insecurity. "She must really suck at the game she made and glitch her way through the game. " This is what all this is about! No, one donsn't suck for using a glitch in a video game, Kronner. Some people just like to play that way and some don't...

It's seemed that way to onlookers whose seen all this unfold over the past few days.  I've also seen Neuz's incessant need to instigate.  You both have been ridiculous, to have continued to put so much effort across multiple threads into a difference of opinion,... on an internet forum,... about a video game...  This has been a classic case of "honey, come to bed.  I can't, someone is wrong on the internet!" 

Bottomline:  Some people will continue to refer to it as a glitch, others will continue to refer to it as a trick.  That's it.  Who the hell cares.  Done.

(awaits obligatory flood of "it's not me it's him", "he starts its", "he's senitive", "i'm not taking this personally", posts...

Modifié par Simbacca, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:35 .

[BeresaadSoldier]

Oh damn it, Neuzhelin. I had this recorded 2 days ago, but got around to uploading it only today... You beat me to it.

Garrus' Loyalty 2 YMIR vs Vanguard w/o medkits


Claymore + Carnifex combo. No health damage taken.

Modifié par BeresaadSoldier, 25 juillet 2010 - 09:28 .

[Bozorgmehr]

BeresaadSoldier wrote...

Oh damn it, Neuzhelin. I had this recorded 2 days ago, but got around to uploading it only today... You beat me to it.

Garrus' Loyalty 2 YMIR vs Vanguard w/o medkits


Claymore + Carnifex combo. No health damage taken.

Damn BeresaadSoldier, you kick ass. Like it how you use one (unprotected) Mech as cover - have to try this with my Adept to see if they can do something similar.

[BeresaadSoldier]

Destroyer spec is quickly becoming one of my favourite passive abilities.

[Kronner]

BeresaadSoldier wrote...

Destroyer spec is quickly becoming one of my favourite passive abilities.

I am playing around with Destroyer spec in my current playthrough too. After the biotic cooldown upgrade, you can Charge every 5.272 with the Destroyer spec and 4.972 (used VirtualDub for this; start when the cooldown icon appears, stop when it connects, might not be 100% accurate, but the difference is very small - a maximum of 0.3 second) with the Champion spec. Not much of a difference, but it may save Sheps ass sometimes. The power and weapon damage of the Destroyer may just be a little better than extra 0.3 second removed from the cooldown.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[Omicrone]

You can mainly use Destroyer coupled with Archon visor - that way you basically have 1% less cooldown time than champion spec (without archon visor) but you pick up the extra % power and weapon damage, which is what it's all about.

Modifié par Omicrone, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:19 .

[Kronner]

Omicrone wrote...

You can mainly use Destroyer coupled with Archon visor - that way you basically have 1% less cooldown time than champion spec (without archon visor) but you pick up the extra % power and weapon damage, which is what it's all about.

According to my findings using FRAPS to record and VirtualDub to analyze, the Archon Visor makes no difference for Destroyer (still 5.272s cooldown). Can you check that as well to see if you can notice any difference at all?

Modifié par Kronner, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:07 .

[Omicrone]

Yeah, I'll do that when I go back home. I'll put on archon visor and compare with recon hood then report back here. 'Tis most interesting if Archon visor doesn't make a difference.