614 réponses à ce sujet

[Wicked 702]

Yes, but now you've just somewhat proven my point. The effect of the over-salted steak on the individual is purely subjective. Each person will give his or her own weight to the effects of said saltiness.



My point is that the community at large, over a period of many years, appears to be changing to be more accepting of that extra salt. My opinion (and I realize it's only an observance on my part) is that this was not the case as much as 10 years ago when I was just coming into adulthood. Generally, more weight was given to said flaws than is now.



For example in my case I would consider DA:O to be a solid 9 in all the aspects you describe. Near perfect in every way. However, when I personally factor in the technical issues the game easily drops to a 6...maybe even a 5. Average at best. Bug/glitches/errors in games have always carried heavy weight with me. And my perception, given the discussions at the time, make me believe I was in the norm back then. Now, I wonder if that's the case.



So either I've become more hard-line or others have becomes more accepting...

[night0205]

I'm not trying to trash anyone's opinion, or post, I'm just stating that DLC is more important to Bioware then patching. And I don't think, just because a game needs patching, that it is broken. At least I don't think that's how Bioware sees it. If Bioware truly believed it was broken, they would have made it the priority. I'm not saying this is my opinion, I'm saying it's reality.

[Wicked 702]

night0205 wrote...

I'm not trying to trash anyone's opinion, or post, I'm just stating that DLC is more important to Bioware then patching. And I don't think, just because a game needs patching, that it is broken. At least I don't think that's how Bioware sees it. If Bioware truly believed it was broken, they would have made it the priority. I'm not saying this is my opinion, I'm saying it's reality.

Actually, I agree with you on this one. I think that was part of the problem. (Though obviously others would disagree.)

[ladydesire]

13Dannyboy13 wrote...


Games are rushed to meet deadlines and extra content that should've been in the game in the first place is then sold as dlc

The only thing in the case of Dragon Age that could remotely qualify is Stone Prisoner, since that was indeed cut from the game to attempt to make the original PC release date; anything made available other than that was done afterward. As far as patches being delayed to produce more DLC, no one here can prove it for certain, since we don't know how big the patch team is compared to the DLC team.

[The Masked Rog]

[quote]Wicked 702 wrote...

Yes, but now you've just somewhat proven my point. The effect of the over-salted steak on the individual is purely subjective. Each person will give his or her own weight to the effects of said saltiness.[/quote]
Agreed. Which also means that some people will find the "steak" enjoyable. Which also proves that my claims aren't mere conjuncture.

My point is that the community at large, over a period of many years, appears to be changing to be more accepting of that extra salt. My opinion (and I realize it's only an observance on my part) is that this was not the case as much as 10 years ago when I was just coming into adulthood. Generally, more weight was given to said flaws than is now.[/quote]

I'll admitt I wasn't in the RPG scene 10 years ago, but I've played some games from that epoch, including a very highly acclaimed Planescape Torment. That game had some serious bugs in it, but it didn't stop it from being loved by many. And it only received one patch, and Dragon age has already received three (I know the benefits of some of these patches are a matter of discussion). It relied on community patches to fix some of the most serious bugs. Quite similar to DA, I'd say.

[quote]
For example in my case I would consider DA:O to be a solid 9 in all the aspects you describe. Near perfect in every way. However, when I personally factor in the technical issues the game easily drops to a 6...maybe even a 5. Average at best. Bug/glitches/errors in games have always carried heavy weight with me. And my perception, given the discussions at the time, make me believe I was in the norm back then. Now, I wonder if that's the case.
[/quote]
Guess on how much you weigh the technical component of the game. I make multiple and very frequent saves just in case I hit a bug and Idon't really find it that much intolerable.

[xxSylphxx]

The Masked Rog wrote...

But can't a game which has bugs still be high quality? Can't an excellent narrative, variety of choices and enjoyable gameplay offset the damage caused by the bugs? CAn't Dragon Age be an excellently prepared steak which just happened to be a bit over-salted?

Ah hah, perhaps herein lies the flame wars epicenter.

Am I saying DAO is a bad game? No! You don't need to defend DAO. I wouldn't be hanging around here if I didn't enjoy the game. I don't think most of the people begging for patches and complaining about bugs would be here still without a sincere fondness for this game. I am saying there are some bugs that really interfer with me enjoying this game as much as I could. This is what drives PC based fans to author their own Mods/Patches for games in the first place: a love for them. But like a relative strung out on drugs, I want the game to seek help. Rehab for games has another name: patches. Did that help?

[night0205]

However, a broken game would be a bad game. Wouldn't you agree?

[The Masked Rog]

Yes, if a game is unplayable, it can't be a good game. I'm aware that some people have problems playing this game, I hope the patch allow them to play it, because it really is worth the wait.

[Gothmog1065]

I would rather have a well written, maybe slightly buggy game released, then have plenty of patches to fix bugs than what Bioware is giving us now. 9 months between patches when some people's games are nigh unplayable, or they can't enjoy the way they play to fix it (For me it was a sound bug. Some people have other problems). I would rather see a big patch come out then little patches to fix it than 9 months of not being able to play the game.



For some of you, the game is broken, which is fine. Don't come in here and tell us not to whine because the game 'isn't broken' in whomever's eyes. The game *IS* broken for quite a few people it seems, yet we can't get anything to help alleviate the things that make the game suck for many people. Then again, another game I have played has spoiled me on things like that. They'd rather have as many happy customers with well working games than have people leave.



Basically, I just bought Dragon Age a while back. Spent the money on the game then an extra 20 bucks on DLC that is now no longer fun to play because my SFX has to be turned off. I should have just burnt the money, it would have probably given me the same enjoyment that Dragon Age is currently giving.

[Apex Sammoth]

night0205 wrote...

However, a broken game would be a bad game. Wouldn't you agree?

I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot you would change your tone. So please stop trying to say its not broke. I am happy for you that your game works for you but, not all of us it does. As we all have said some might play though the game with no problems and many have had "WELL DOCUMENTED FACTS" that there are problems with the game on all 3 platforms.

The Other argument and a lot of feel that Bioware as a business has tarnished there name a bit with this game. There lack of support for 9 months and counting for DOA. I am not even including expansions. Yes it has a lot to do with the way the gaming industry has turned into. Putting out product after product in order to make money. It is fine from a business point of view but, not as a consumer who has a broken product. Fact is Software does not fall under any liability laws in the USA "not Sure about other countries" so they get away with release buggy software all the time. Do they fix them ? Yes most of the time.

All we are saying is 9 months of owning a product that is pretty much sitting on your shelf because of "BUGS" is unacceptable weather or not it works for other consumers.

[BrunoB1971]

Personnally i think the steam ( fad ) for this game is going to start to die soon, Because of the game's state and also the fact that we are rapidly coming in the busy season of the year ( september until december) Plus starcraft 2 is coming up like real soon. I think the suits at bioware have decided to patch the game to save face and also try to keep the franchise alive a little bit more until dragon age 2. At the moment this reminds me of empire total war wherein the first game was a complete mess and then they refined the engine a lot for Napoleon total war. Looks like the same deal is gonna happen here.



I dont see how the game can compete this fall...Bio did not announce anything major for the game, and the only thing i can see are a few dlc's popping up here and there. Unless there is another expansion already alsmot done and they are just waiting to release the patch first before making an announcment of a patch to do damage control since a lot of people are not happy with the state of the game at this time.



It would infuriate a lot of people if Bioware would announce another major expansion to be released soon when the base game and awakening are in need of an overhaul.



I do not know to be honest, maybe that is the plan ( release another expansion ) but i sure hope as hell that they are smart enough to make this kind of stunt after properly fixing the game across the board.



nuff said...

[Gothmog1065]

I won't be spending another dime on anything in the Dragon Age Franchise unless this is fixed. Sadly, I'll probably be one of the few.

[swordmaster2k1]

I agree with the patch being the best news possible. I still haven't beaten the core game (was deployed for like seven months) and when I get back, the game crashes too much to really be much fun. Hence, increasing stability will improve my gameplay performance the most. An expansion or sequel or DLC would be cool too, but core game first.

[DragonRageGT]

Please Victor, try and get some estimation from the patch team? Months? Weeks? Years? I have all my chars in halt waiting for the patch! =)

[Kalcalan]

An estimate regarding the new patch would be appreciated. We all understand that different teams work on DLCs and patches and that the fact that the game exists on different platforms makes it more difficult to patch.



More DLCs can't hurt the game and will only maintain the interest of the fanbase but if the game is still broken it doesn't make for a thoroughly enjoyable experience (especially when DLC content doesn't necessarily work with Awakening but it looks like this is going to be fixed in the next patch hopefully -I'm thinking about Warden's Keep talents).



So I agree with Rage GT, if we knew when we can expect the new patch it would be a very good thing. Too many players are ranting because they are disatisfied and they may not be voicing their disatisfaction in the most serene manner but the disatisfaction is somewhat legitimate given that we are kept in the dark. Even if Bioware can't communicate an accurate deadline it would be nice to actually know if we are to wait weeks or months for the new patch.



I'm personally more concerned about Awakening related issues as the things patch 1.03 broke can be fixed with mods but not everyone is playing the game on the PC. I'm confident that Bioware is not trying to alienate the fanbase and that the hostility on this forum doesn't help communicating with players but it would be best to give a a straightforward answer instead of letting things get out of hand like they do now.



To sum things up, I believe that if we had an idea of the release date for that patch and possibly more information about the actual fixes it would really help clearing out all the bad feelings that have been vented out in the patch related threads.

[Corvus Black]

i still haven't seen +%x healing received bug fixed yet.

[Biotic Budah]

Kalcalan wrote...

An estimate regarding the new patch would be appreciated. We all understand that different teams work on DLCs and patches and that the fact that the game exists on different platforms makes it more difficult to patch.

More DLCs can't hurt the game and will only maintain the interest of the fanbase but if the game is still broken it doesn't make for a thoroughly enjoyable experience (especially when DLC content doesn't necessarily work with Awakening but it looks like this is going to be fixed in the next patch hopefully -I'm thinking about Warden's Keep talents).

So I agree with Rage GT, if we knew when we can expect the new patch it would be a very good thing. Too many players are ranting because they are disatisfied and they may not be voicing their disatisfaction in the most serene manner but the disatisfaction is somewhat legitimate given that we are kept in the dark. Even if Bioware can't communicate an accurate deadline it would be nice to actually know if we are to wait weeks or months for the new patch.

I'm personally more concerned about Awakening related issues as the things patch 1.03 broke can be fixed with mods but not everyone is playing the game on the PC. I'm confident that Bioware is not trying to alienate the fanbase and that the hostility on this forum doesn't help communicating with players but it would be best to give a a straightforward answer instead of letting things get out of hand like they do now.

To sum things up, I believe that if we had an idea of the release date for that patch and possibly more information about the actual fixes it would really help clearing out all the bad feelings that have been vented out in the patch related threads.

This is well said, and as I have said in other threads, once all these patches are released it will almost be like a sequel, providing that the sequel isn't out before the patch!  Seriously though, I am looking forward to playng the game in its full functiona glory.

[night0205]

I think the main part we need to play as the community is patience and communication. I know some of you are very frustrated in the lack of priority that you see the patches getting, but complaining or being vicious will not help that. The best thing we can do is encourage Bioware of what the community of fans of Dragon Age want. The reality is, they know we want a patch, which is why they are giving us another one... They are making an effort. It may not be fast for you, but at least it's happening. Communicating respectably is the best thing you can do to get what you want.

[Biotic Budah]

night0205 wrote...

I think the main part we need to play as the community is patience and communication. I know some of you are very frustrated in the lack of priority that you see the patches getting, but complaining or being vicious will not help that. The best thing we can do is encourage Bioware of what the community of fans of Dragon Age want. The reality is, they know we want a patch, which is why they are giving us another one... They are making an effort. It may not be fast for you, but at least it's happening. Communicating respectably is the best thing you can do to get what you want.

We all know they are working hard to get this out as quickly as possible, I'm already making new characters to play through once they put out that patch. What would be an acceptable time to wait for that patch? I've said this in other threads, they have made probably 90-95% of the money they will ever make on this game, barring DLC. They are under no obligation to put out any patches. They do so for the loyal fans of the game and to encourage future loyalty. If Toyota didn't address their brake problems how likely would you be to buy one?

[BrunoB1971]

So i guess i was right...dragon age 2 is coming out..no big secret anymore...but now i have a feeling of deja vu wherein i had bought empire total war which was broken and refined with napoleon total war which made the buyers of the first game essentially beta testers.

So i think we ended up being guinea pigs...mind you i have nothing against Bioware putting out games. I like it , but this soon?

Modifié par BrunoB1971, 08 juillet 2010 - 11:08 .

[BomimoDK]

BrunoB1971 wrote...

So i guess i was right...dragon age 2 is coming out..no big secret anymore...but now i have a feeling of deja vu wherein i had bought empire total war which was broken and refined with napoleon total war which made the buyers of the first game essentially beta testers.

So i think we ended up being guinea pigs...mind you i have nothing against Bioware putting out games. I like it , but this soon?

There's nothing new in this. they released all of Baldur's Gate over 4 years and NWN less than a year after ToB. This is how their release cycles usually run... i'm not worried as it's never given me reason to worry.
and patches or not... this game will be fixed uo 100% by the end of 2010, by either developers of by clever modders. either works for me.

[Ezohiguma]

So we get Red's Song. We even get the DA2 announcement.



But we don't get a patch.



This is what happens when the marketing department takes over and the folks in quality control get flipped off.



Modders may be able to fix parts of it, but, let's face it, that's not how the business works.



I pre-ordered Starcraft 2 today.







BTW, the Toyota brake problems is a bad example. That was hyped by the media (as usual, the people who know less than everybody else scream loudest) and many of the claims couldn't even be reproduced by investigators.

[Darth Drago]

BioWare hasn’t learned anything it seems since Leliana’s Song has a few bugs in it as well. Most notably (that I’ve seen) her sword and dagger suddenly becoming unequipped when you go into the inventory or talk to Lem. I have almost sold her weapons because of this. This isn’t some random thing, it happens at least twice in each of the 2 play throughs (not worth playing a third time anyways) of the download I’ve done.

Lets keep shoveling sub-par unplaytested products out the door without fixing the core games. Makes sense to me.

Wonder how many people will go out and buy Dragon Age 2 knowing that they still haven’t fixed the first game and its expansion and knowing that its probably made using the same engine.

[Apex Sammoth]

night0205 wrote...

I think the main part we need to play as the community is patience and communication. I know some of you are very frustrated in the lack of priority that you see the patches getting, but complaining or being vicious will not help that. The best thing we can do is encourage Bioware of what the community of fans of Dragon Age want. The reality is, they know we want a patch, which is why they are giving us another one... They are making an effort. It may not be fast for you, but at least it's happening. Communicating respectably is the best thing you can do to get what you want.

Again , Put the shoe on the other foot. Your not getting it are you? I know why your not because your game has "quote" worked for you. Not all of us. We have had  Patience and Communication for 9+ Months and what do we get  today ? Dragon Age 2 Announcement. "Good Grief" How about an Estimate on when the patch will be out ? I hardly see this as an Effort when it wasn't tested right to begin with before release and then bought by consumers based on false pretenses that it would work on there Computers under "Bioware" Recommended specs. I am sorry but, it's been way too long since this game has been released and it just gets even more frustrating have to hear 1-3 things on the board....

1. Patience
2. The Game Is Not Bugged Must be your System....
3. Encourage...What do you think we been doing for 9 months ? Seriously none of us complained for 9 Months straight we followed the right channels. Support etc and Nothing. Now we get an announcement of a patch with no general idea of release. Yet they don't waste any time giving a date for DLC or Expansions. Bull....

Modifié par Apex Sammoth, 08 juillet 2010 - 02:49 .

[Lord Gremlin]

"The Game Is Not Bugged Must be your System..."

PS3 and 360 you mean? Game is really bugged, but it's not broken. It's playable.