614 réponses à ce sujet

[MaxQuartiroli]

I am more than patient...

I bought Awakening on release day, I played it one time and after that I put into into my library, waiting for the companion's quest broken and for the notes from our previous companions not triggerring to be fixed.. Because without these things for me it is just pointless to play the game.

And it was 3 months ago.. Meanwhile I played ME2 3 times, Alpha Protocol 2 times, DAO again and various NWN and DAO mod.. but I am still waiting for playing again Awakening...therefore no one can say I am not patient

And once again.. I can deal with the crashes but not with the story broken.. and this is not a problem of my PC but of the game, and no one except Bioware can help for these...

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 04 juillet 2010 - 04:03 .

[dragonsouce]

I am tiered of people defending Bioware. I mean just F#$%ing tired. Nothing bean done and I get called a troll when I tried to be reasonable by fanboy fantic squad. But lets see the Pattern shall we?

First time I installed 1.03 to fix some annoying bugs and I crashed.
Was it really only 3 month ago seems like years.
no problem. I email Teck support
They said that no one else had a Problem and I needed to reinstall OK i did.
I crash and my system OS locked up. I damaged My Hard drive as in Physical damage.
Emailed Teck support they told me to up date all my drivers and Direct X
So I do and I crashed again.
I Email them and the say that there Very few systems with this problem and there would be no update 1.04 to fix it.
I email again after I Find other are crashing
They tell me It was not there fault as they never TESTED THE NEW 1.03 PATCH ON WINDOWS 7 64 BIT ONLY Windows 7 32! Why the haiy Fu$% skip Windows 7 64 bit?
They refereed me to a forum to post my technical stats.

Ok what would they have to do in anyone opinion to warrant me rantting and be justified ?
Because I for one am Fed UP! TO HERE!

And I think it safe to say EA has the worst teck support on Planet Earth including Microsoft and I did not think that Possible.

Modifié par dragonsouce, 04 juillet 2010 - 05:11 .

[The Masked Rog]

Abriael_CG wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...
But yet you want everything yesterday

yesterday? Do you even read what you write? The game has been out EIGHT months. Many people still aren't able to play it properly, and even the ones that are able to have to bear TONS of continuity/quest/itemization/dialogue bugs that quite evidently provide a gaming experience that's not the intended one.

Eight months have really nothing to do with "yesterday".

and no one deserves a vacation because that would be unprofessionnal of them. Are you living at the start of the industrial age when people worked almost all week and had to beg to have time off while working for sweat shop wages?

We are in 2010 as far as i can see and that si the way things are. They take godam time to get done. I am not happy about it, no one is happy about it but waltzing in into a conversation and waving your hand and talking all philosophical like will not change a thing! You just look like a bully who can't wait his turn!

You see, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if the majority of their development resources were dedicated to fixing the game people already paid for. Things take time to be done, that's beyond any reasonable doubt.

The problem here is that they don't only take their reasonable time to get it done, but they also willingly and knowingly increase that time by investing the majority of their development resources in developing further DLCs to release, leaving the many that can't play decently a game they paid for already to rot without a clue on when they'll get what their money's worth.

Given that extremely unprofessional (and i'd say even unethical) behavioir, I'm sorry, but I'm no more willing to cut them any slack. I did for several months already, writing the exact same things that you're writing now, and quite evidently giving them much more credit than they deserved.

So no, I'm sorry, no sympathy here. Professional people get things done, THEN they rest. It's that simple.

The Masked Rog wrote...
You make it sound so much worse than it really is. It is almost like the game is unplayable for everyone. In
fact, to almost the entirety of the client-base the game runs close to flawless. Some have serious problems with it, yes, but that happens with every game and Bioware is working on it. Consider yourselves lucky they do, must companies would just consider the game in good quality state (as this game truly is) and be ignore any problems suffered by the minorities.

I always find it extremely funny when fanboys come here telling that "to almost the entirety of the client-base the game runs close to flawless", like they had done any kind of statistically valid survey that demonstrated that extremely farfetched claim.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you have absolutely no clue on what you're talking about and absolutely no data to back it up. The only thing we can see is that the technical support forums are bursting full of complaints for so many issues that it isn't even funny. And this easily voids your claim.

Of course  without even mentioning that all the quest related, endings related, itemization and dialogue bugs affect EVERYONE. Them alone most definitely put the game in a position that is miles away from the "close to flawless" definition.

When a game whose major advertisement point is freedom of choice doesn't even display the consequences of such choices correctly, that's a flaw that can hardly be considered marginal.
If you want to continue playing with your eyes firmly shut in order to pretend not to notice the flaws, that's your business, but please, don't insult our intelligence trying to tell us that what's clearly visible to everyone that's willing to see just doesn't exist.

First, I'm not a fanboy.

I have never encountered such problems with the endings. All choices I made seem to be properly taken into account. If you are saying that, by design, there is little consequence about your choices, then I'd agree. I'd rate that, along with shallow sidequests, one of the worst aspects of Dragon age. Otherwise the epilogue's working fine for me and most other people I know RL that play this game (and you'll have to trust me on this, I know a lot of people that play the game). I don't doubt that some people are having serious problems with this game. Bioware is trying to fix them. I think that it would only encourage them if they were properly applauded. So far, I've only seen people saying them to "Why isn't it done already? and why isn't it perfect? and why is there no free dlc? and why do you produce so much dlc? I bet you are prioritizing dlc over patches."

Give them some credit already. Yes there is a lot of people complaining about technical problems. That doensn't prove that the game is unplayable for the vast majority, because people whose game works flawlessly won't come here and make posts about that. Human are complainers by nature, but rarely take the time to say something positive.

[The Masked Rog]

 
You see, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if the majority of their development resources were dedicated to fixing the game people already paid for. Things take time to be done, that's beyond any reasonable doubt.

The problem here is that they don't only take their reasonable time to get it done, but they also willingly and knowingly increase that time by investing the majority of their development resources in developing further DLCs to release, leaving the many that can't play decently a game they paid for already to rot without a clue on when they'll get what their money's worth.

You have no proof of that. Just because dlc is being produced it doesn't mean patches are being  neglected. Different teams, working on different things. I'm no expert in the area, but I'd bet that patching wouldn't go a second faster if they put 100 people working on it. Discovering the cause of a certain bug isn't done any quicker if you put ten people on it rather than 1. BioWare is an huge studio, they can work on both things at the same time.

[ShinsFortress]

The game working for the majority is not the point. The game not working properly, or in some cases at all, for more than a tiny-tiny fraction *is*.



I am sure the majority of Toyota's cars gas pedals and brakes worked fine. That was not the point. The point was that more than a tiny fraction of one % might not, *was*.



Yes, I know that computer games are generally not classed as safety critical (even though data can be lost in some cases). But I believe the principle is similar.



Another way to look at it. A lot of people may not complain about PP/Stealing simply because they don't use it. That doesn't make it okay that core gameplay mechanics like this was a) broken by a patch and months later it is still broken. It's also not a bright spark that plot critical quests have potentially game-stopper bugs in them. Still.



Even games that I like much better than DragonAge were not all released bug free. But all my favourite games either had much less severe bugs or had basic *bleep* like this fixed sooner and better.



To the other post about EA Tech Support, you're probably right. It may even be worse than LucasArts was, back in the day. Or UbiSoft.

[-Zippi-]

The Masked Rog wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...
But yet you want everything yesterday

yesterday? Do you even read what you write? The game has been out EIGHT months. Many people still aren't able to play it properly, and even the ones that are able to have to bear TONS of continuity/quest/itemization/dialogue bugs that quite evidently provide a gaming experience that's not the intended one.

Eight months have really nothing to do with "yesterday".

and no one deserves a vacation because that would be unprofessionnal of them. Are you living at the start of the industrial age when people worked almost all week and had to beg to have time off while working for sweat shop wages?

We are in 2010 as far as i can see and that si the way things are. They take godam time to get done. I am not happy about it, no one is happy about it but waltzing in into a conversation and waving your hand and talking all philosophical like will not change a thing! You just look like a bully who can't wait his turn!

You see, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if the majority of their development resources were dedicated to fixing the game people already paid for. Things take time to be done, that's beyond any reasonable doubt.

The problem here is that they don't only take their reasonable time to get it done, but they also willingly and knowingly increase that time by investing the majority of their development resources in developing further DLCs to release, leaving the many that can't play decently a game they paid for already to rot without a clue on when they'll get what their money's worth.

Given that extremely unprofessional (and i'd say even unethical) behavioir, I'm sorry, but I'm no more willing to cut them any slack. I did for several months already, writing the exact same things that you're writing now, and quite evidently giving them much more credit than they deserved.

So no, I'm sorry, no sympathy here. Professional people get things done, THEN they rest. It's that simple.

The Masked Rog wrote...
You make it sound so much worse than it really is. It is almost like the game is unplayable for everyone. In
fact, to almost the entirety of the client-base the game runs close to flawless. Some have serious problems with it, yes, but that happens with every game and Bioware is working on it. Consider yourselves lucky they do, must companies would just consider the game in good quality state (as this game truly is) and be ignore any problems suffered by the minorities.

I always find it extremely funny when fanboys come here telling that "to almost the entirety of the client-base the game runs close to flawless", like they had done any kind of statistically valid survey that demonstrated that extremely farfetched claim.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you have absolutely no clue on what you're talking about and absolutely no data to back it up. The only thing we can see is that the technical support forums are bursting full of complaints for so many issues that it isn't even funny. And this easily voids your claim.

Of course  without even mentioning that all the quest related, endings related, itemization and dialogue bugs affect EVERYONE. Them alone most definitely put the game in a position that is miles away from the "close to flawless" definition.

When a game whose major advertisement point is freedom of choice doesn't even display the consequences of such choices correctly, that's a flaw that can hardly be considered marginal.
If you want to continue playing with your eyes firmly shut in order to pretend not to notice the flaws, that's your business, but please, don't insult our intelligence trying to tell us that what's clearly visible to everyone that's willing to see just doesn't exist.

First, I'm not a fanboy.

I have never encountered such problems with the endings. All choices I made seem to be properly taken into account. If you are saying that, by design, there is little consequence about your choices, then I'd agree. I'd rate that, along with shallow sidequests, one of the worst aspects of Dragon age. Otherwise the epilogue's working fine for me and most other people I know RL that play this game (and you'll have to trust me on this, I know a lot of people that play the game). I don't doubt that some people are having serious problems with this game. Bioware is trying to fix them. I think that it would only encourage them if they were properly applauded. So far, I've only seen people saying them to "Why isn't it done already? and why isn't it perfect? and why is there no free dlc? and why do you produce so much dlc? I bet you are prioritizing dlc over patches."

Give them some credit already. Yes there is a lot of people complaining about technical problems. That doensn't prove that the game is unplayable for the vast majority, because people whose game works flawlessly won't come here and make posts about that. Human are complainers by nature, but rarely take the time to say something positive.

If you don't have story bugs at the end of the game, then it is luck only. EVERY copy of the game have story bugs. Some choices in the game doesn't trigger them, but some do.

Some exs: SPOILERS:
IF you are working a bit with both kingcandidates it Orzammar, then you will get gamebreaking bugs.
IF you become king, a lot of important characters in the game will still see Alistar as the king.
IF Alistar dies, a lot of important characters in the game will talk about him as he is alive.
IF you are a female character and friend with alistar, he will at some parts think you are lovers.
And so on.

Again: It is possible to be lucky and miss the story bugs, but the bugs are in every copy of the game and if you are unlucky, they can really ruin the adventure.

And the crashing? It is def. a problem with the game. They even admit it in the opening post: It is related to sound and memory leak.

And yes the crashing were introduced with 1.03 patch. I went back to 1.02a - and no more crashing (or lagg og low fps).

And finally:
Nobody knows if the most player can or can not play the game, but it is proven that a lot cannot play it and that is not good enough.

But why are we discussing this? Bioware have confirmed the bugs and are working on them. Maybe it could have been done earlier but it is nothing to do with that now. It is good to se that a promising patch is on the way and the weekly update is great.

Modifié par -Zippi-, 04 juillet 2010 - 06:13 .

[The Masked Rog]

Another way to look at it. A lot of people may not complain about PP/Stealing simply because they don't use it. That doesn't make it okay that core gameplay mechanics like this was a) broken by a patch and months later it is still broken. It's also not a bright spark that plot critical quests have potentially game-stopper bugs in them. Still.

Again, I've never had any problems with stealing. Again, for those who have, it's being fixed.



Sure you are right, people with problems deserve getting a patch. There have been three patches already so I wouldn't call them slow on patching or anything. I'd also anticipate this not to be the last patch. Just look at NWN and the amount of patches it received.



Also, name a game who works absolutely as intended, never crashes. Or indeed name any advanced software application. Something not like notepad.

[The Masked Rog]

 
Some exs: SPOILERS:
IF you are working a bit with both kingcandidates it Orzammar, then you will get gamebreaking bugs.
IF you become king, a lot of important characters in the game will still see Alistar as the king.
IF Alistar dies, a lot of important characters in the game will talk about him as he is alive.
IF you are a female character and friend with alistar, he will at some parts think you are lovers.
And so on.

Those kinds of problems are, unfortunately, common in most story-wise complex RPGs due to the sheer amount of variables included. I have become king and had Alistair die and I only experienced those kinds of problems once. Reloaded and it was all working fine. Maybe try that?

[MaxQuartiroli]

The Masked Rog wrote...
]

I have never encountered such problems with the endings. All choices I made seem to be properly taken into account. If you are saying that, by design, there is little consequence about your choices, then I'd agree. I'd rate that, along with shallow sidequests, one of the worst aspects of Dragon age. Otherwise the epilogue's working fine for me and most other people I know RL that play this game (and you'll have to trust me on this, I know a lot of people that play the game). 

All the endings where you have in the party Alistair but you put on the throne Anora alone are broken, becuase everyone, Alistair himself included, address him at the king, with all the eventually consequences in final text boxes...

At the gates of Denerim if you are in romance with Zevran, he talks to you with the no-love dialogue and If you romance him with a male warden at the ending you will be addressed like a femal warden...

Maybe  you and your friends didn't ever followed these paths, therefore you didn't encounter these problems?

But this wasn't kind for all the people that after 50 hours of gameplay with these things happening,  saw their story ruined

[The Masked Rog]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...
]

I have never encountered such problems with the endings. All choices I made seem to be properly taken into account. If you are saying that, by design, there is little consequence about your choices, then I'd agree. I'd rate that, along with shallow sidequests, one of the worst aspects of Dragon age. Otherwise the epilogue's working fine for me and most other people I know RL that play this game (and you'll have to trust me on this, I know a lot of people that play the game). 

All the endings where you have in the party Alistair but you put on the throne Anora alone are broken, becuase everyone, Alistair himself included, address him at the king, with all the eventually consequences in final text boxes...

At the gates of Denerim if you are in romance with Zevran, he talks to you with the no-love dialogue and If you romance him with a male warden at the ending you will be addressed like a femal warden...

Maybe  you and your friends didn't ever followed these paths, therefore you didn't encounter these problems?

But this wasn't kind for all the people that after 50 hours of gameplay with these things happening,  saw their story ruined

I'm not sure what platform you are, but if on PC ttrt Dialogue Tweaks, Qwin's fixes and I think there's also a Endgame and epilogue fixes. That could help you. Though again, I've never had problems without them installed.

[Abriael_CG]

The Masked Rog wrote...
First, I'm not a fanboy.

I didn't notice the problems so they don't exist! LALALALLALA I can't hear you!!!

Just lol...

Give them some credit already. Yes there is a lot of people complaining about technical problems. That doensn't prove that the game is unplayable for the vast majority, because people whose game works flawlessly won't come here and make posts about that. Human are complainers by nature, but rarely take the time to say something positive.

There's absolutely no credit to be given.
As there are many that have no problems (or just don't notice them, because many of the problems are in every copy of the game) and don't come here, there are also many that have plenty problems and don't come here, simply because not everyone uses internet forums as a mean to voice their complaints. Or simply they have no will or time to be aggravated by the fanboys like you on top of not being able to play their game decently.

The quest/continuity/dialogue/ending problems we're continuing to list right in your face (since you seem to be affected by a serious case of selective reading) are present in EVERY copy of the game, on EVERY platform.

"but they're not gamebreaking!"
The hell they aren't. They make a lot of the choices available in the game completely moot, and the bugs propagate into awakening.

This kind of extremely widespread bugs that influence the whole outcome of the story in a story driven game aren't acceptable by any standard, especially since they have been reported eight months ago and they have never been adressed. 

It's quite obvious that they're dedicating most of their resources to DLCs, because taking eight months to solve this kind of problems is irrealistic unless you're putting three people in a basement to do it.

I'm not sure what platform you are, but if on PC ttrt Dialogue Tweaks, Qwin's fixes and I think there's also a Endgame and epilogue fixes. That could help you. Though again, I've never had problems without them installed.

The fact that some mods exist that kind of piut a shaky patch on some of the problems don't make them less serious. Most players don't even know that those mods exist, since it's not our responsibility as customers to go around and hunt for obscure mods in order o make up for Bioware's sloppy coding and QA. Also it shouldn't be the responsibility of modders to do what Bioware isn't up to do because they're too busy generating more revenue.
This without even mentioning that those mods very often cause incompatibilities with other mods and various problems.

Seriously, this kind of blind and deaf apologism is an insult to intelligence.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 04 juillet 2010 - 07:05 .

[The Masked Rog]

 Or simply they have no will or time to be aggravated by the fanboys like you on top of not being able to play their game decently. 

Sorry if I aggravated you. That was definitely not my intention, Also, in order not to be aggravated, I have not rread your post any further. This conversation is over,

[Abriael_CG]

The Masked Rog wrote...

Sorry if I aggravated you. That was definitely not my intention, Also, in order not to be aggravated, I have not rread your post any further. This conversation is over,

Maybe you should realize that when people are having problems using a product they paid for going to spam all over their face "I have no problem! The game's great! Yay!" over and over won't have any positive effect on their frustration.

That's why a quite well known game developer used to say that fanboys are one of the most detrimental thing for develpers. They cause a lot of false noise, they downplay problems causing them to be overlooked, and in the end do nothing else than frustrate further the people with legitimate complaints.

[The Masked Rog]

Luckily for my, I'm not a fanboy....

[BrunoB1971]

to change the subject...



How many of you have on board sound?

[night0205]

I'm sorry but some of you guys are just way to emotional about this... It's a game... And most of it works perfectly well. No game is perfect... Especially one that is so complex, and as far as story goes, this is probably the most complex game out there.

[Abriael_CG]

night0205 wrote...

I'm sorry but some of you guys are just way to emotional about this... It's a game...

Not really. It's a product that we paid for. And it wasn't cheap.

And most of it works perfectly well.

Sure, you can go to the Darkspawn and beat them in the face. But this is a story driven game. If you chose a certain character not to be king, and the game just reverts your choice because of a bug that has never been fixed, completely changing the finale, it's not "perfectly well" it's broken.

No game is perfect... Especially one that is so complex, and as far as story goes, this is probably the most complex game out there.

Ahem... bull... The imperfections could have been forgivable at launch. Eight months and several DLCs after? No, not really.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 04 juillet 2010 - 08:15 .

[BrunoB1971]

qwerty1234567 wrote...

@Bruno: I've got onboard sound. no problems with it, but could definitely use some better speakers...

Just wondering because i upgraded my mobo recently and the sound was atrocious, i was lucky enough to find an x-fi card for 20$ and now the sound is way better. I was playing or trying to play prototype and the game has a sound issue(s) and the sound is real low in this game but thanks to my new card it is somewhat better and a little bit more playable...


I think DA uses Fmod for the audio of the game and that could have been the cause of the audio crashes. Hopefully they did an upgrade to the sound engine so that it is better and causes less issues.


And to just tick off our friend gargamel here..you want a game with no support? go and waste your money on Prototype for PC. I had the unfortunate adventure of doing so. There are hundreds of pages devoted to the sound problems of the game and Activision has done ZERO so far to solve the problem and the  game was released on june of last year so that is over a year of people grumbling and the company doing nothing. So there you see, at least you can count your lucky stars that BIO is trying to make something out of a bad situation.


nuff said!

[Abriael_CG]

BrunoB1971 wrote...
And to just tick off our friend gargamel here..you want a game with no support? go and waste your money on Prototype for PC. I had the unfortunate adventure of doing so. There are hundreds of pages devoted to the sound problems of the game and Activision has done ZERO so far to solve the problem and the  game was released on june of last year so that is over a year of people grumbling and the company doing nothing. So there you see, at least you can count your lucky stars that BIO is trying to make something out of a bad situation.

The fact that there can be worse cases (there's ALWAYS worse), isn't really any kind of justification for extremely negative cases like Dragon Age.

[night0205]

@Abriael Who bought the game? If you don't want to buy Bioware games then don't. Your opinion really doesn't matter. Bioware is acting like a business, which means money first. There is no money is patching, so why would they devote a majority of their time to that? You people are tired of all the people who defend Bioware, and the Bioware people are tired of all the people who complain. The reality of the matter is, it really doesn't matter. Bioware will do what they want to do, and they will take care of what they want to take care of, and if you want to buy and play their game then do it, if not I really don't understand why you are on the board. The game works, I know people who have played through it over 20 times with different characters. How many games have that amount of re-playability? I don't know of any. This is a critically acclaimed game. This game makes lots of money. So in the eyes of Bioware, this game was beyond their expectations. Bioware is selfish, why would you expect otherwise? Spending a lot of your time during the day just complaining about how much you hate the world just seems depressing to me. I really need to look up what the definition of "troll" really is...

[-Zippi-]

The Masked Rog wrote...

 
Some exs: SPOILERS:
IF you are working a bit with both kingcandidates it Orzammar, then you will get gamebreaking bugs.
IF you become king, a lot of important characters in the game will still see Alistar as the king.
IF Alistar dies, a lot of important characters in the game will talk about him as he is alive.
IF you are a female character and friend with alistar, he will at some parts think you are lovers.
And so on.

Those kinds of problems are, unfortunately, common in most story-wise complex RPGs due to the sheer amount of variables included. I have become king and had Alistair die and I only experienced those kinds of problems once. Reloaded and it was all working fine. Maybe try that?

Reloading is no use. The game dialogue is designed wrong.

More exs:

- Morrigan's dialogue before the dark ritual, where she refers to
Alistair as King, even if you put Anora on the throne as sole ruler.
- Morrigan's dialogue before the dark ritual, where she will refer
to Zevran and Leliana as your "beloved", even if you are not in the Love
range
- Alistair's dialogue at the city gates in the end battle. You
should not have the option to tell him "You need to be King" if Anora is
on the throne as the sole ruler.
- Alistair's dialogue at the gates of the Battle of Denerim. You
should not have the option to tell him "You need to be King" if YOU are
the one who is going to be King AND you have completed Morrigan's dark
ritual.
- Alistair's dialogue before he kills the Archdemon. Alistair should
not refer to himself as King if Anora is on the throne as the sole
ruler.
- The romance dialogues with Alistair post-Landsmeet, where Anora is
the sole ruler. On occasion, Alistair will still: (a) try to break up
with you or ( refer to himself as King (and act hardened, even when
the PC did NOT harden him).
- The romance dialogues with Alistair post-Landsmeet, when Alistar
is king. On occasion, Alistair will try to break up with you even when
you are friends only.
- Riordan's dialogue at Redcliffe. Loghain should not speak if he is
dead.
- Bodyguard's dialogue at Redcliffe, issue with silent dialogue and
bodyguard mentioning Loghain, even if Loghain is dead.
- The "Where is this going?" conversation if you ask Alistar after
you revive Arl Eamon. Alistar will sometimes act hardened, even if he is
NOT hardened.
- In Anora's epilogue dialog she will speak of Alistair as if he
were alive in case he is not.
- Alistair sometimes give the rallying speech prior to the siege of
Denerim even if he is not the king.

You cant get away from these bugs in any other way than using mods. And most players doesn't know about mods, and a lot are playing on PS3 og 360 where you cant use mods.

Also mods are unofficial, and you never know if the creator takes the liberty to change parts of the story. I have noticed that in a lot of mods. The real game should be working well.

It is understandable that there are bugs with the release, but now they are fixing it - because they are there.

(Got a PM from a Bioware dev. telling that they are aware of all of these.)

Modifié par -Zippi-, 04 juillet 2010 - 10:03 .

[Feraele]

Thatdude88 wrote...

Almost as bad as the president going on holiday while millions of his citizens are unemploymed

So Bioware employees, Canadian and American are not allowed normal holidays, in your opinion?   O.o