37 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher0020]

REALLY want to get a rogue off the ground.... so can a Rogue

- Wear massive armor and still be stabbity stab?

- DW swords or stick with daggers?

I figure stats could be....

Strength: 36
Dex: 40
Cun: 40

Max out DW Tree, Coecerin, Combat Tactics....

My Rogue DC just got to Ostagar... so plenty of build time.... I want to wear BIG armor... be a smooth talker, disarm traps, pick locks and backstab the crap outta enemies....

[MindYerBeak]

All points into Cunning. Go for DW dagger/dagger Rogue. Leliana to play Song of Courage.

Mainhand: Rose's Thorn (6.4 base damage, 8 AP, +2 dex, +3 damage, +30% crit damage)
Offhand: Thorn of the Dead Gods (6 dam, 7 AP, +3 damage, +3 AP)
Helm: Helm of Honnleath (+2 str, +2 dex, +2 cun)
Chest: Felon's Coat (+6 dex, +9 defense)
Gloves: Red Jenny Seekers (+15% crit damage)
Boots: Cadash Stompers or Silverhammer's Tackmasters (+2 dex) (Cadash has extra mods of minor benefit but also increases hostility)
Belt: Andruil's Blessing (+2 str, 2 dex, +2 cun)
Amulet: nothing improves DPS
Ring: Key to the City (+2 str, +2 dex, +2 cun)
Ring: Dusk Ring (+3 cun, -1 str)

Final stats including gear:

Str: 20 + 5 = 25
Dex: 30 + 16 = 46
Cun: 66 + 9 = 75

Modifié par MindYerBeak, 03 juillet 2010 - 01:19 .

[beancounter501]

^^ If you like to swing two or three times and then croak. Try taking that build solo through Howes Estate or the Deserted Building in Denerium without stealthing or potions. Glass Cannon. At the very least drop Dusk Ring for Lifegiver.

Strongest Rogue build I have play tested yet is str 38, Cun 22, rest dex. Pick up all four duelist talents. Pick up Evasion. Pick up Stealth 4. Equip Cailens Armor, and the lifegiver ring. Take the two daggers that Mind mentioned above. Big Massive Armor. High Defense. High Attack. High health regen. High health. High Dodge.  Pound out good damage.   Some people will disagree, but cunning Rogues are vastly overratted.

Modifié par beancounter501, 03 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Cypher0020 wrote...

REALLY want to get a rogue off the ground.... so can a Rogue

- Wear massive armor and still be stabbity stab?
- DW swords

Yes to both, though massive doesn't feel very rogue-ish and will incur bigger penalties to fatigue than a warrior would, on top of a smaller stamina pool to begin with. And large one-handed weapons generally do less damage than daggers due to slower attack speed, especially when dual-wielding.

I figure stats could be....

Strength: 36
Dex: 40
Cun: 40

No, strength or cunning, pick your poison but don't try to max out both, that's a waste of points and a receipe for disaster in the long run. You want to leave one at prerecquisites for whatever you want (20 strength for drakeskin leather or 24 cunning for master stealth, for example) and max out the other.
Cunning is really interesting for assassins and bards because it powers up their class abilities. Other rogues, not so much.
Dexterity is never a bad investment, how much you put depends on how you want to play your rogue. Generally speaking, the high cunning rogue will have a harder time hitting things than the high strength rogue, but both will benefit from higher defense.

[Cypher0020]

Uhhhh is any of that stuff DLC? I don't have that. I wouldn't even know where to begin where to find that gear cept for the Felon's Coat, and the drake skins in the scared ash quest...



What IS the thing between Cun Rogues Vs. Dex Rogues..??



I'd feel weird if I only put my points into ALL Cunning for example.... and no Dex

[mousestalker]

If you go dual wield, my best advice is either learn to make swift salves or have one of the wizzies learn. Swift Salve + Dual Wield + Momentum is blazing fast.

[MindYerBeak]

A high Dex rogue can hardly ever be hit and you strike more often. A Cunning Rogue need put only 1 point into lockpicking. Cunning helps to identify weaknesses in the Baddies armour and increasing armour penetration. It also means you only need 2 points in Coercion. Cunning also increases the effectiveness of Rogue skills. I prefer Cunning to Dex, but it's your choice.

As for Howes Estate and the Deserted Building I got through both okay without stealthing. Don't forget, there are 3 others in your party.

Modifié par MindYerBeak, 03 juillet 2010 - 04:14 .

[Jestina]

You don't need armor.



You have dexterity, dodge gear, and skills that help you dodge. Not to mention rogues also have stealth. I go all dex myself and my rogues hardly ever get hit and do massive damage with backstabbing. You don't even really need to waste talents in weapons just maybe the first line of dual wield. Get combat stealth as soon as possible too...that's a lifesaver.



You'll get some great light armor later on in the game too...and nice daggers.



You don't need combat tactics, that's mostly for NPC's.



You can take a look at my last rogue if you think it will help any.

Here she is...

Gwenda

[Cypher0020]

Ok I think I see the point of Dex Rogue over Cun Rogue...



my Cun is about 19 I think... which is ok...but my Dex is about 30 or so.... and I think my Rogue stabs a heck of a lot faster than before....



So what about Specs? I was thinking of going Assassin route...but since I'm going more Dex based... so...Duelist?



Assassin seems.... better??

[Elhanan]

One thing may be worth mentioning: a high Cunning Rogue should have Lethality to make the character viable to sub for STR dmg.

I prefer the 38 STR Rogue wearing Evons mail and Wade's Superior combo. That is good for archers or DW. While a low armored Rogue may avoid melee quite often, those Grabs, Overwhelms, and like tactics happen throughout the game, and occur often; hence my preference for the heavy armor.

A DW Rogue wearing massive armor should increase STR to 42, and consider Wade's Superior Bone Plate. That said, I still prefer Evon's & Wade's as it offers 21 pts of armor for only 3 pts of fatigue.

I prefer Duelist/ Assassin, even if I do not take any Assassin talents. Ranger is about summoning help, and Bard can get you stuck in one spot singing one song; leave all that for Lil.

Modifié par Elhanan, 03 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[Jestina]

Assassin has some good stuff in it...like mark of death(or whatever it's called).

[MindYerBeak]

Elhanan wrote...

One thing may be worth mentioning: a high Cunning Rogue should have Lethality to make the character viable to sub for STR dmg.

I prefer the 38 STR Rogue wearing Evons mail and Wade's Superior combo. That is good for archers or DW. While a low armored Rogue may avoid melee quite often, those Grabs, Overwhelms, and like tactics happen throughout the game, and occur often; hence my preference for the heavy armor.

A DW Rogue wearing massive armor should increase STR to 42, and consider Wade's Superior Bone Plate. That said, I still prefer Evon's & Wade's as it offers 21 pts of armor for only 3 pts of fatigue.

I prefer Duelist/ Assassin, even if I do not take any Assassin talents. Ranger is about summoning help, and Bard can get you stuck in one spot singing one song; leave all that for Lil.

Why would you need 38 Strength? I believe I'm correct in thinking that Cunning replaces Strength and acts as a Strength Modifier. Can't remember exactly how.

[Elhanan]

AFAIK, Cunning replaces STR as far as Dmg bonus, but not as actual STR for wearing armor, It is not the same as AW Combat magic

[beancounter501]

^^ Right cunning does not let you equip heavy/massive armor.



@MindYerBeak - That challenge is for testing out various builds. All of the builds eventually die! But it is very revealing when some can get almost to the end and some can not get past the first room!

[Cypher0020]

Ok so I'm a Dex Rogue...so far being fast stabbity stab is fun... and I've rarely been hit...



However... I'm in the Fade.... and playing a dwarf.... am I screwed? I have about 60 health potions.... and can't use lyirum veins.....

[soteria]

The Fade is well and truly annoying for a dwarf. You can do it, though.

[Cypher0020]

aw crap..... ok any advice on HOW to get through yet?



Also looked at the official rogue tips on youtube... and there's two types of strike rogues



Dex/Cun Based... and Strength/Dex based.... I'm rolling my DC as dex/cun....



As a rogue...I thought putting points into strentgh was bad?



Note... I got this from the tips from the game guy himself

[mousestalker]

Do one or the other, but not both.

Dex is almost always good.

There are a few inaccuracies in the video, I'm afraid. For example, Falon'Din's Reach is a very nice bow but there are arguably two better bows available in the vanilla game.

Modifié par mousestalker, 03 juillet 2010 - 04:34 .

[Cypher0020]

So I try a new run with a Dex/Stren based Rogue and stick with that?

[Loc'n'lol]

You don't need the lyrium veins, really. Use your alt shapes well and you'll be fine. Then there's 2-3 fighs that are very annoying but that's mostly because if you're caught, you can't do anything, lyrium veins wouldn't help in the first place.

[soteria]

That video has a fair bit of misinformation in it. I wouldn't bother with dual weapon mastery, for example (momentum is probably the most valuable rogue talent), Falon'Din's Reach is not actually the best bow in the game, Master Archer only increases attack speed in certain circumstances, and Arrow of Slaying is not the best mage-killer out there. Take everything in that with a grain of salt.

Dex vs cun: take dex to focus more on your defenses and all-around fighting, and take cun if you're going to be an assassin, bard, or just want maximum use of your skills. Cunning builds will deal more damage while backstabbing.

[Cypher0020]

Ah that's true.. I forgot the forms can help... IE the spirit's ice magic..... good thing, since mostly all enemies are burning...



But on the question of the rogue classes.... a Dex/Strength Rogue can happen? I was gonna try that with a human noble...

[soteria]

Sure, you can do dex/str. I found it much weaker than cun/dex, but whatever floats your boat.

[Cypher0020]

hmmm... would that be because of the armor? Dex relies on how the player gets hit right? You'd hit less because strength makes armor heavier?



Sorry...think I'm finally getting used to what the stats mean...sorta....



while dex/cun makes the rogue...able to hit faster and dodge?



BUT



would... lets... say...20 in strength just to wear Tier 2 armor be bad? Just...some extra padding?

[Elhanan]

Most players seem to go for STR 20 to wear the Felon's Coat; possibly the best light chest piece in the game. They use Lethality and high Cunning.

I prefer to skip the entire Lethality tier (not much for me there except Lethality), and go with high STR. Thus if you want to wear heavier armor, you can do so, or you can wear the light armor and still do more damage.

The one issue here for some is that Cunning still needs to be between 30-40 which means you will not have the 70+ ability score seen in some other builds. But this does still work well for both archers and DW specialists.