144 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Ash Wind wrote...

so profound... you should write fortune cookies

Yes. Saying that he would be less hated if he didn't ****** people off is too much stating the obvious for me not to nitpick.

Edit: In short, he is written with that character flaw. Deal with it.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 03 juillet 2010 - 07:25 .

[Sarah1281]

When I see the ignorance of people, it just makes me a very disappointed human being and more the misanthrope I am today. I suppose that's why I appreciate games, they can reflect the honorable sense of society that barely exists today IMHO.

...So you're saying that people disliking a video game character is destroying your faith in humanity? That's kind of extreme, to say the least.

[Collider]

I don't see anyone saying that Alistair should have no emotion, or faulting him for having them.

[Ash Wind]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

so profound... you should write fortune cookies

Yes. Saying that he would be less hated if he didn't ****** people off is too much stating the obvious for me not to nitpick.

Edit: In short, he is written with that character flaw. Deal with it.

That is an oversimplification of my point. If that’s how you read it, then that’s how you read it.

He would have still pissed a lot of people off by disliking the Warden and and leaving the party, whether he shows up in the final battle or not. With a lot of debate of what is a grey warden and and Ali’s actions at the Landsmeet, I was merely offering an opinion that they could have still had him ****** people off, dislike the Warden and leave the group and still had him follow through on what he pledged to do, fight the blight.

Some who dislike him would still dislike him. Some might be influenced by an appearance in the final battle.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 03 juillet 2010 - 08:14 .

[nos_astra]

Collider wrote...

I don't see anyone saying that Alistair should have no emotion, or faulting him for having them.

I do see people doing exactly that, mostly in comparison with their Warden who comes almost as a blank slate to fit all origins in one "creature" .... but had it soooo muuuuch haaaaarder and doesn't get to whine a bit.

[nos_astra]

Ash Wind wrote...
Some who dislike him would still dislike him. Some might be influenced by an appearance in the final battle.

But that would be no real flaw. The point is someone crossed a line and his reaction was to run and abandon everything, not to get mad and still do something heroic so the Warden's player can sleep at night.

Modifié par klarabella, 03 juillet 2010 - 08:23 .

[Sarah1281]

klarabella wrote...

Collider wrote...

I don't see anyone saying that Alistair should have no emotion, or faulting him for having them.

I do see people doing exactly that, mostly in comparison with their Warden who comes almost as a blank slate to fit all origins in one "creature" .... but had it soooo muuuuch haaaaarder and doesn't get to whine a bit.

Not being able to talk about your problems when your companions (and not just Alistair) go on at length about theirs is really annoying. I'll admit, I'd rather Alistair handled Duncan's loss better as those first few conversatoins where he's on the verge of tears (especially since I rush through the beginning dialogue for everyone since I've heard it all before) but that's not to say it's unrealistic, especially if he's never lost anyone before.

[Sarah1281]

klarabella wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...
Some who dislike him would still dislike him. Some might be influenced by an appearance in the final battle.

But that would be no real flaw. The point is that someone crossed a line and his reaction was to run, not to get mad and still do something heroic so the Warden's player can sleep at night.

Who is losing sleep over Alistair running away? If he came back to stop the Blight that would mean that he wouldn't have abandoned his country and his order and would have been a good thing for him but if he is choosing, of his own free will, not to get involved with the final battle then I don't see why people should feel guilty for his choices.

[Xandurpein]

All characters in the game have flaws. Some of them you only see if you play in a certain way. I think it's the same with real people, except you don't get to replay. Sure play a ceratian way and you expose a flaw in his character that ruins his life, and I seriously think he will hate himself too afterwards. Play it in another way and he does become the beloved king of the country.



Some of us can forgive his flaws, others won't. Just as some can forgive Loghain's flaws, and others can't. What flaws we can forgive or not usually just reflects what emotional garbage we drag around ourselves.

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Not being able to talk about your problems when your companions (and not just Alistair) go on at length about theirs is really annoying.

Probably, if you can't wrap your head around it and simply assume the things you would have your Warden do naturally. As I said your Warden is one "creature" for all origins ... and all player types.

[Herr Uhl]

Ash Wind wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

so profound... you should write fortune cookies

Yes. Saying that he would be less hated if he didn't ****** people off is too much stating the obvious for me not to nitpick.

Edit: In short, he is written with that character flaw. Deal with it.

That is an oversimplification of my point. If that’s how you read it, then that’s how you read it.

He would have still pissed a lot of people off by disliking the Warden and and leaving the party, whether he shows up in the final battle or not. With a lot of debate of what is a grey warden and and Ali’s actions at the Landsmeet, I was merely offering an opinion that they could have still had him ****** people off, dislike the Warden and leave the group and still had him follow through on what he pledged to do, fight the blight.

Some who dislike him would still dislike him. Some might be influenced by an appearance in the final battle.

I don't see how it's an oversimplification. 

You argue that Bioware could have made him less of an ass in this instance, why would they do that? Because you think so?

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...
Some who dislike him would still dislike him. Some might be influenced by an appearance in the final battle.

But that would be no real flaw. The point is that someone crossed a line and his reaction was to run, not to get mad and still do something heroic so the Warden's player can sleep at night.

Who is losing sleep over Alistair running away? If he came back to stop the Blight that would mean that he wouldn't have abandoned his country and his order and would have been a good thing for him but if he is choosing, of his own free will, not to get involved with the final battle then I don't see why people should feel guilty for his choices.

They needn't feel guilty. Some people can't sleep because they're angry.

Don't take me too serious.

[Sarah1281]

klarabella wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Not being able to talk about your problems when your companions (and not just Alistair) go on at length about theirs is really annoying.

Probably, if you can't wrap your head around it and simply assume the things you would have your Warden do naturally. As I said your Warden is one "creature" for all origins ... and all player types.

I'd just like to be able to bring up your problems every now and then like with Wynne or at the Guardian but given all the different ways people took the origins I know it would be very difficult to implement. Still, I suppose there are things that imply that you've talked to them about it like when you play a DN and have Wynne in your party when you approach Vartag about betraying Harrowmont and points out he betrayed you already or Zevran not seeming surprised if you say you don't wnat to side with your treacherous brother.

[Suron]

only time I've hated him was when I spared Loghain. He threw a 3 yr olds hissy fit. Left the Wardens (which was bs anyway...Duncan MURDERED someone that had doubts but still looked at him admirably.) It was made clear you do NOT leave the Wardens.



Then he left my party...that I was fine with..what I was not fine with was his ignoring the blight and turning his back on fighting it. It was childish. And frankly the Wardens should be hunting him down and telling him it's come back or die

[nos_astra]

Suron wrote...
And frankly the Wardens should be hunting him down and telling him it's come back or die

You should listen to Riordan and ask him about loyalty. He will tell you that you can in fact leave the Wardens.

Yes, the Warden policy is full of contradictions.

[Herr Uhl]

klarabella wrote...

Suron wrote...
And frankly the Wardens should be hunting him down and telling him it's come back or die

You should listen to Riordan and ask him about loyalty. He will tell you that you can in fact leave the Wardens.

Yes, the Warden policy is full of contradictions.

*shakes fist at warden code*

They went from tightly knit secretive order (Duncan killing Jory) to loose association throughout the game for me.

[Giggles_Manically]

I think Alistair is awsome, a good solid friend/lover, and funny. However his placing revenge over the blight I cant agree with, while I would be angry in his shoes running away is not something I would do.



Although in ME2 everyone loves Shep no matter what you do, outside of a few missions. So kudos for Alistair having a backbone, shame its when the whole country is riding in the balance.

[Giggles_Manically]

I recruited her than regreted it. Yeash I get some Dalish are angsty (Zathrian/story teller) but I cant stand her. Anders is 10 times better than her.

[Ash Wind]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

so profound... you should write fortune cookies

Yes. Saying that he would be less hated if he didn't ****** people off is too much stating the obvious for me not to nitpick.

Edit: In short, he is written with that character flaw. Deal with it.

That is an oversimplification of my point. If that’s how you read it, then that’s how you read it.

He would have still pissed a lot of people off by disliking the Warden and and leaving the party, whether he shows up in the final battle or not. With a lot of debate of what is a grey warden and and Ali’s actions at the Landsmeet, I was merely offering an opinion that they could have still had him ****** people off, dislike the Warden and leave the group and still had him follow through on what he pledged to do, fight the blight.

Some who dislike him would still dislike him. Some might be influenced by an appearance in the final battle.

I don't see how it's an oversimplification. 

You argue that Bioware could have made him less of an ass in this instance, why would they do that? Because you think so?

It was the epitome of oversimplification. if you can't see it, get better glasses

Clearly we are not on the same wavelength because this has absolutely nothing to do with 'What I want.'

Quite simply...
of the people who dislike alistair...

there are people who hate alistar because he's alistair and hated him before the landsmeet, and there are people who hate alistair because of his reaction when you spare loghain...

of those who, there is a faction that dislikes him because they think he walks out on the grey wardens at their most desparate hour... right, wrong or indifferent... its a valid arguement and open to interpretation and debate. That they don't allow for such a thing doesn't mean we cannot discuss it, if we could only discuss things that occur in the game, these threads would be a lot thinner.

[Herr Uhl]

Yes, and? A lot of people dislike him because of that. It is a part of his character.



If you would just point out that a lot of people dislike him for that, and that you want to see what people think of him prior to that, I'm fine with.



In your initial post you do however suggest that it could have been done in a fashion that put him in a better light. You even suggest that it would be BETTER. He isn't that guy, however you may feel about it. He does act out and give up on everything to become a drunk.



And how is your point so complex and beyond my comprehension? Your point is that if he wouldn't do what he does, less people would dislike him.

[Axekix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I recruited her than regreted it. Yeash I get some Dalish are angsty (Zathrian/story teller) but I cant stand her. Anders is 10 times better than her.

Hahaha, yep.

I wanted to Jory-shank on her by the time we made it back to the keep...

[Melca36]

Axekix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I recruited her than regreted it. Yeash I get some Dalish are angsty (Zathrian/story teller) but I cant stand her. Anders is 10 times better than her.

Hahaha, yep.

I wanted to Jory-shank on her by the time we made it back to the keep...

I killed her and then my game glitched on me and I ended up losing my gear. So now I just either dont recruit her or leave her at the keep.

I can't stand her.

[Giggles_Manically]

God I would take Wynne's preaching over Velanna's attitude anyday. And that is sayin somethin.