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[Last Darkness]

It takes a rare kind of wisdom to accept change and redemption in another. Many would refuse seeing only what was, not what is.

[EnchantedEyes1]

As others have pointed out Loghain's specs when you recruit him are so so. I just do the minimal amount of quests before I get Loghain so I have a chance to customize him some. I'm on a PS3 so I don't use mods.

I'll not get into the debate of whether Loghain is evil or not - suffice it to say that after reading The Stolen Throne though I refuse to kill him.

[langelog]

It's too bad I had to make the choice between Alistair my buddy and fellow warden or Loghain, a general of renown. After that I had to choose to either let Loghain die or allow some demon spawn into the world, or sacrifice myself which I wouldn't do, wanted to import. It would seem his death and redemption is a fitting end and the statue erected in his honor that overlooks the Orlesian embassy, "keeping a watchful eye" as the epilogue says, always makes me feel he died a hero, and that's what he deserved IMHO. Suffice to say I always choose Loghain, Allistair's selfish revenge won't change my mind, even though my Warden got payback on Howe, he was just a bonus for the primary objective of saving the queen.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

langelog wrote...

It's too bad I had to make the choice between Alistair my buddy and fellow warden or Loghain, a general of renown. After that I had to choose to either let Loghain die or allow some demon spawn into the world, or sacrifice myself which I wouldn't do, wanted to import. It would seem his death and redemption is a fitting end and the statue erected in his honor that overlooks the Orlesian embassy, "keeping a watchful eye" as the epilogue says, always makes me feel he died a hero, and that's what he deserved IMHO. Suffice to say I always choose Loghain, Allistair's selfish revenge won't change my mind, even though my Warden got payback on Howe, he was just a bonus for the primary objective of saving the queen.

I agree with you, but I don't think anyone understood the severity of the sacrifice. I mean your soul is destroyed, so it will be as though you never existed. After taking in Riordan's warning, I understood that you would need to have a lot of--you know what--in order to do that sacrifice. I wouldn't wish that on anyone... Since I doubt I would do the sacrifice, I wouldn't make anyone else do it--unless its for the trophies lol.

[ImoenBaby]

A lot of players seem to forget that Loghain sold Denerim's elves into slavery. TO BE SACRAFICED IN BLOOD MAGIC RITUALS.



Loghain rationalizes this at the Landsmeet, claiming the ends - one less front to defend - justifies the means. This is evil and absurd.



Alistair, on the otherhand, learns how to govern fairly and becomes a popular king. He has no illusions that his way is the only way, and surrounds himself with intelligent and socially relevant advisors like Wynne and Shianni.

[Lord Coake]

Jestina wrote...

I wouldn't say Loghain is evil...just obsessed with his hatred of Orlais. He didn't want their help to defend Fereldan and he felt the battle against the darkspawn would have destroyed their army so he withdrew what forces he had. He couldn't convince the King that it was foolish so what else could he have done? Some of the people under Loghain though, like Arl Howe, that's a different story.

Flagrant stupidity like that -and a willingness to not only disobey direct orders, but leave his king yo die- is more than enough reason to either exile Logain for the rest of his misbegotten life, or put the traitorous bastard in a hole.  He's a goddamed minor noble, not the King himself. That means his job is to adivse the king, then shut the hell up and do as he's told, wheather or not he agrees.  The right option would have been to send his fasterst messengers back to the capital, waring them to get everyone cpabale of fighting ready to do so, as victory Ostagar would soon be in doubt.

Instead, the slimy SoB makes a power grab.

Then  he makes it worse by going back to the capital and deposing the real ruler and taking up the mantle for himself.  Daughter or not, Anora flat-out outranks him, and thats the only thing that matters.  If anyone should have been her regent during a time of grief, it should have been someone like Bann Tegan, whos completely outside any controversy surrounding the situation.

Logain is a power hungry fool.  Allistair may be a run-of-the-mill fool at times, but he's a loyal and fearless one.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:13 .

[spottyblanket]

I actullay wish you could get Logain sooner in some respects. I always like the idea of putting your bad guy into your team. There could have been so many more interesting scenes.

[Last Darkness]

This is getting way out of hand and becomeing too much about morality and etheics instead of what it should be. Not one person on this board has the ability to Judge Evil and Good, they are too obstract to really understand. Its all personal perpective and often dosnt take into account teh situation at hand teh short and long term benefits and reprocussions. Dont misunderstand me, im not saying anyone is wroung but there is no right answer and I belive that is the point.



As for Alistair and Loghaine, with the information presented to us from all angles neither one is teh correct answer but neither is the wroung choice. Should Loghaine die? for what he done or be given a chance to redeem himself and the people hes wrounged? Living eye for and eye just leaves everyone blind. But also does Alistair deserve the Throne, you basicaly FORCE him into it and he really wants nothing to do with it. Matter of Fact the most prevelent situation i can think of where he wants the Throne is only to kill Loghaine as he states "Ill do it if thats what it takes to see Justice served" is he thinking about his country, his people? not to mention the fact that Alistair has no exeperince in politics, or leadership let alone protecting himself from being a puppet king by those who would advise and counsel him. It is a difficult time for Ferelden and there is too much going on at once for anything to be rashional or reasonable.



In retrospect the only sane person in all of Dragon Age was Duncan.

[Ayanu]

rayzorium wrote...

I guess I mean Man's Justice. If you take a life in cold blood, you deserve you lose your own - It's a concept as old as life itself, and one that's difficult to argue against at its core. I don't think Loghain should be compared with Churchill, though. It may have been a valid comparison when he *was* a hero in the war against Orlais, but that was thrown out the window at Osthagar. I'm pretty sure Churchill never assassinated the former prime minister to take his position and then blame the death on, say, Douglas Bader's unit. The comparison just isn't realistic.

Before I say anything else, though, I want to apologize - truth be told, I initially chose to spare Loghain, and I've *sort of* been playing devil's advocate in this discussion. I don't quite share your views, but I'm much more moderate than I've been letting on. The surgeon example was really contrived too; sorry about that as well. I'm really surprised you didn't call me out on it, actually, so I guess I'm calling myself out.

Anyway, regarding Loghain, it was as I said - he had a very impressive military history, and even a fool could see that he would be invaluable as a Warden in the upcoming battles. Listening to Alistair rant about how Loghain needed to die left a bad taste in my mouth. Still, it wasn't an easy decision to make. Loghain's actions really were despicable, but I see what you mean by personal prejudice now. Regardless, in the end, I chose to kill him because Alistair was going to leave if I didn't, and I hadn't been getting equipment for any other characters outside of my main four. >_>

You made a very strong point, though, at least to me, and I'm not sure if you even meant to in this particular case. If Duncan were at the Landsmeet, he would have inducted Loghain into the Wardens in a heartbeat, which is more than good enough in my eyes.

I guess my primary reason for arguing is that I'm not very willing to accept shades of grey. I don't like the idea of a necessary evil - if it's necessary, it can't be evil, and I have a lot of trouble reconciling if it doesn't work out easily. I could probably save myself a lot of stress if I just went along with it, though...

Not to say I am a big fan of Loghaine, but if you watch all the cutscenes, most of the things that happen in his name aren't completely his doing. The hiring of Zhevran for example, is done by Arl Howe, and you can clearly see that Loghaine doesn't like the idea of hiring the assassin or killing the grey wardens that remained until Arl Howe persisted that they would act against him and endanger Fereldan.

As far as abandoning the King, he knew at that point that even if his men joined the battle, they would all die along with the King and the grey wardens, they simply did not have enough men there to stop that many darkspawn. As a strategist he made his decision based on what would be the best route for actually defeating the darkspawn and attempting to save Fereldan rather than have more people die in battle.

While it is true that the situation presented itself partially because of Loghaines hatred of Orlais, you can't really blame him for his feelings torwards that country. Having his country controlled by them for so long and having only recently having secured freedom for his country (he still spent half his life living under Orlesian rule) it is pretty normal to distrust them and hae a very deep hatred for them and not wanting them back in your land.

But Cailin is also partially responsible for what happened. He did not take the threat seriously enough, and would not even wait for reinforcements from redcliffe from his uncle. He was more obsessed with glory than with protecting his people.

As far as my feelings of Loghaine, I don't personally like him but I don't view him as "evil" because I don't sense any malice in his actions, at his core he really is just trying to protect his people, but I still dislike his choices and how he goes about trying to do that.

[Homebound]

Wow, why the hate for Alistar? I havent finished the game but he seems like an ok character. Bit of a smartass but an ok character nontheless.

[Ripper Ironwill]

You enter the game with the burning hate against those who slayed your family and destroyed your castle. This hate grows stronger in a zip, after Loghain acctions lost the battle, possible killed your brother, killed your newly found mentor and the king and almost killed you.

He lies that the wardens betrayed the king and he tries to hunt you down becose youre a warden. He is foolish enough to try to stand alone against the blight, and trying to kill the only wardens left that can deal with the archdemon and unite all factions to actually have a chance against the blight.

How is he thinking to kill the archdemon without the wardens? How does he prepare to fight the blight if he cant/dont want to unite all factions?

And after you prepare all the way to kill him, and you actually have the chance to do it, the opportunity arrives to let him live, and more to join you, disregarding Alistar that was by your side for every bitter moment, should you accept? More than this, what is the message you send to all that stood by you untill that moment? That you can turn your back at any time from your best allies and friends and embrace the enemies?

Why let him live? Just becose you cant kill him in front of his daughter (I got the feeling she is evil too, every since the beggining, when she has no feeling for the death of the king and looks to get along well with the betray of his father) or becose he is not entirely bad and you have a common enemy, the blight? Its foolish imo.

Of course those are dire times, when you need all the help you can get, but all that Loghain did during the game shows that he is not a team player. Letting him live would give him a chance to turn against you and your friends after the blight is gone, with even more hate after you defeated him in front of his men and you humiliated him even more by showing mercy.

Along the way, while playing mainly a lowful good char, I killed foes for much less than Loghain did against me and my friends and against everybody. Even that he is opposing the blight, his actions serve best the blight, so I try to portret him as a puppet slave of the will of the archdemon.

For me, saving Loghain its not an option. Killing him is a must and its not just revange. Its the need to take out of the game one of the main players that with his actions helped the blight the most.

+1 for Alistar

Modifié par Ripper Ironwill, 15 juillet 2010 - 08:44 .

[Ripper Ironwill]

Sure king Cailin was only thinking about the glory of fighting the blight side by side with Duncan and the rest of the wardens. He is young and unexperienced. Maybe Loghain thought he has no chance in that battle against the blight and wanted to save his men to fight another day... BUT...he should had opposed the king openly and refuse to take his army on the battlefield, no matter the consequences, even risking a civil war.. far better than a treason and a signed death sentence for the king, all his army and the wardens.

Modifié par Ripper Ironwill, 15 juillet 2010 - 08:54 .

[tybbiesniffer]

Ripper Ironwill wrote...

Sure king Cailin was only thinking about the glory of fighting the blight side by side with Duncan and the rest of the wardens. He is young and unexperienced. Maybe Loghain thought he has no chance in that battle against the blight and wanted to save his men to fight another day... BUT...he should had opposed the king openly and refuse to take his army on the battlefield, no matter the consequences, even risking a civil war.. far better than a treason and a signed death sentence for the king, all his army and the wardens.

Agreed.  Regardless of good or evil, whatever the intentions or reasoning, he was a traitor, a deserter, and an instrument of regicide.  All deserving of death.

That said, I still had to save Loghain once just to hang out with him and see Alistair's infamous temper tantrum.  At least I got to tell Anora her dad would probably die anyway; that was a small comfort.

[velmyn]

If you're idealistic, then yes, Loghain should be given a second chance. If you're idealistic though, Alistair's tantrum shouldn't be a big deal.



If you're cynical, Alistair's tantrum means he should leave. If you're cynical though, killing Loghain off may also be a smart idea.



If you're meta-gaming, Alistair can be customized earlier to suit your needs. If you're meta-gaming, you also know neither of the two are necessary.



As for me, if I can forgive Loghain for abandoning the King and his men to die, then I can also forgive Alistair when he executes Loghain. Nothing personal.

[Mecha Tengu]

loghain isnt evil, but he is a whining crybaby. All he does for the majority of the game is screw over Ferelden over his own selfish interestes and views. Even until the very end he argues that he is doing what's best for Ferelden. After you recruit him, all he can do is whine about how he is sorry and how "I never thought this would happen" (well no sh*t it would happen, what the hell were you thinking?). I only saved him in one playthrough so his soul could be destroyed by the archdemon, and what happens? he becomes a hero.



HELL NO, he does not deserve to be a hero. It gives me great satisfaction to execute that man in each and every one of my playthroughs

[JergenKajaton]

Loghain is pretty similar to Alistair in terms of stats and abilities. Story-wise, I prefer to take Loghain rather than Alistair into the final battle, because it results in the best possible ending in my opinion: Both I and my (hardened) best buddy Alistair get to live, Alistair gets to marry Anora and become King, Loghain gets to redeem himself by slaying the archdemon and dying heroically, and Morrigan doesn't get her antichrist child (okay, we don't know that Morrigan is after an antichrist child, but I don't entirely trust her and I definitely don't trust an Old God soul, no matter what body it inhabits).



Everybody wins, nobody loses. Except Morrigan. Which is a good thing.

[Ripper Ironwill]

Poor Alistair...how is this a happy end for him? I wouldnt let my dog more than 5 minutes with Anora, except maybe if I get him a special backstabing resist collar...

[DragonRacer13]

Ripper Ironwill wrote...

He is foolish enough to try to stand alone against the blight, and trying to kill the only wardens left that can deal with the archdemon and unite all factions to actually have a chance against the blight.

How is he thinking to kill the archdemon without the wardens? How does he prepare to fight the blight if he cant/dont want to unite all factions?

Maybe my memory is rusty, but I'm pretty sure Loghain doesn't actually believe the darkspawn raids are a full-on Blight. The only real way to know it's a Blight is to either be a Grey Warden and have Scary Archdemon Nightmares or to trust the Grey Wardens when they say, "Uh, yeah, it's a Blight, dude." Loghain doesn't trust the Grey Wardens and feels there's too much legend and myth piled on them, so I honestly don't think that he believes it's a Blight. He doesn't realize he's wrong until you finally smack him upside the head (literally) at the Landsmeet duel. And then, obviously, he'd realize even further that he'd been wrong if you make him a Grey Warden and he then starts sharing in the Scary Archdemon Nightmares.

It's actually a fascinating bit of irony that his actions (which he thought were in Fereldan's best interest) nearly resulted in completely destroying the very thing (Grey Wardens) Fereldan needs in order to not be completely consumed by, not Orlais, but the Blight. "Fate has a twisted sense of humor, it seems..." indeed. But while it's always rumored that only a Grey Warden can kill the Archdemon, nobody knows WHY that is. To Loghain, he probably saw it as an excuse for the Wardens to not have to submit to the laws of the land. Your own Warden doesn't even know WHY it takes a Warden to kill the Archdemon, not until the very end, so Loghain truly didn't know their deaths would cripple any chance against the Blight he didn't think existed.

More than this, what is the message you send to all that stood by you untill that moment? That you can turn your back at any time from your best allies and friends and embrace the enemies?

Only Alistair feels you're turning your back on him (and I can feel his point-of-view, so no Alistair-bashing from me). None of the others do. Heck, some of your own party members are only there because of YOUR MERCY towards them. I am assuming you didn't immediately kill Zevran, who tried to kill you? And I'm assuming you recruited Sten, who was in that cage in Lothering because he murdered an entire farming family? In both those cases, one could argue that you embraced "enemies" or "potential threats". So, why is mercy shown towards those two considered "good" and mercy shown towards Loghain considered "bad"?

I think the real clencher here is Alistair's influence. If Alistair wasn't goading you into killing Loghain or flipping out that you're listening to Riordin's suggestion, would you still make the same choice? And when I say "you", I mean that openly to everyone in this thread. And this is coming from someone who DID execute Loghain on the first play-through, so I have nothing against those who go that route. But it would be interesting to know how many folks who do execute Loghain would actually NOT do so and show him the same mercy they showed towards Sten and Zevran if Alistair said nothing at all during that sequence? I've a feeling that there are at least a handful that would consider Riordin's suggestion if Alistair wouldn't yell at them and leave the party because of that decision (but then again, that's the entire reason why, for some, it's a gut-wrenching decision... the consequences are not 100% awesome for either side of the decision unless you just flat-out love lobbing off Loghain's head).

[velmyn]

DragonRacer13 wrote...

Only Alistair feels you're turning your back on him (and I can feel his point-of-view, so no Alistair-bashing from me). None of the others do. Heck, some of your own party members are only there because of YOUR MERCY towards them. I am assuming you didn't immediately kill Zevran, who tried to kill you? And I'm assuming you recruited Sten, who was in that cage in Lothering because he murdered an entire farming family? In both those cases, one could argue that you embraced "enemies" or "potential threats". So, why is mercy shown towards those two considered "good" and mercy shown towards Loghain considered "bad"?

The attitudes of Zevran and Sten towards their crimes compared to Loghain's are quite different. Zevran was a slave sold to the Crows, and mentions it wasn't exactly the life he chose. Not to mention that the only crime in-game that he commits is trying to kill the Warden.

The key difference between Sten and Loghain is that one admits the crime was his fault and his responsibility, while Loghain continues to place the blame on someone else(as if everything would've been perfect if it weren't for Howe and Cailan). It's a tough pill to swallow.

I think the real clencher here is Alistair's influence. If Alistair wasn't goading you into killing Loghain or flipping out that you're listening to Riordin's suggestion, would you still make the same choice? And when I say "you", I mean that openly to everyone in this thread. And this is coming from someone who DID execute Loghain on the first play-through, so I have nothing against those who go that route. But it would be interesting to know how many folks who do execute Loghain would actually NOT do so and show him the same mercy they showed towards Sten and Zevran if Alistair said nothing at all during that sequence? I've a feeling that there are at least a handful that would consider Riordin's suggestion if Alistair wouldn't yell at them and leave the party because of that decision (but then again, that's the entire reason why, for some, it's a gut-wrenching decision... the consequences are not 100% awesome for either side of the decision unless you just flat-out love lobbing off Loghain's head).

Very true. Though I suspect just as many people are trying to make Alistair's tantrum into some sort of valid argument against him. It works as an argument in favor of preference(in the, he's whiny, so I don't like him sense), but in the moral sense? Given what he's up against, hardly.

Again, you're quite right that if Alistair didn't feel so strongly about it...I would've let Loghain live at the very least. Maybe even consider it fitting, especially so since in Awakening he is sent to serve with the Orlesian wardens. Otherwise, I personally can't say that executing Loghain is the right thing to do, but I see nothing wrong with it either.

Modifié par velmyn, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:14 .

[Ripper Ironwill]

DragonRacer you have some solid points there, and ofcourse, the beauty of the game is that it doesnt have a black/white script, but as much as possible life-like, there are some moral decision that can be taken according to your own comprehension of a greater good, or according to the laws of the land or just becose you want it to.



About Loghain and the Blight, to my understanding, this isnt the first one, and for every other blight there was, it was a grey worden (or more) that killed the archdemon and stoped it. That I think is common knowledge in the game, and even if Loghain didnt know he is facing a real blight, he is willingly crippling Fereldan's defense against a possible future blight by slaying all the wardens, which is not wise.



About Zevran and Sten, youre pretty right. This brings in discussion the question about after how many crimes is it moral to take away somebody's chance for redemption... One attempt to kill for Zevran, the murder of a whole family by Sten or the multiple crimes of Loghain?



Zevran is trying to kill me, he fails and I show mercy...its a crime that affects only me and so its up only to me if I show him mercy or not. Also, I get the feeling Zevran had no say in this one...it was either kill me or be killed by his superiors.



With Sten its something else. I know he killed a family, and he openly admits it. Altho, I dont know the whole story and circumstances of this crime. Somehow, for such a proud warrior, I got the feeling there is something untold, that he cant take pride in just killing a defenseless family. Maybe he openly admits it, thinking that nobody will believe his story anyway, and he looks for the mercy of beeing killed where he stands, so he wont be the mockery of children, a proud warrior locked in a cage like an animal.



About Loghain, well, his actions affects everybody, not just my warden, and are close to seal the doom of a kingdom. So, Im not the judge in his case, Im just the executioner. Its not up to me to let him live, and by any laws, godly and menly alike, he deserves death.



Also, at that point in the game, how could I be sure that turning Loghain into a grey warden will make him stay by my side? He ends up doing so, but at that particular moment, not trusting him at all, I have no way of knowing that he wont try to use his new position to continue his actions against me and all my allies.



There is also the peril, that already turned into a grey warden, Loghain will try to lead the wardens, becose he seems to like to be in charge. He might try to make wardens from his closest men and allies and we could end up with two gray warden factions, too occupied to kill eachother to actually stand against the blight. I think of it this way..If Loghain is a warden, he wont need my archdemon killing skills anyway, so he has one less reason to not try to kill me and Alistair.



Anyway, I already plan to let Loghain live in a game, so I could experience first hand whats this all about

[DragonRacer13]

velmyn wrote...

The attitudes of Zevran and Sten towards their crimes compared to Loghain's are quite different. Zevran was a slave sold to the Crows, and mentions it wasn't exactly the life he chose. Not to mention that the only crime in-game that he commits is trying to kill the Warden.

Yes, Zevran was rather forced into being an assassin. But if you talk to him enough, you eventually learn that he actually does enjoy the gig and would choose to continue being an assassin... he would just rather be a freelance one than tied to the Crows. Not that I hold that against him, but just saying that he's not exactly remorseful of his job description.

The key difference between Sten and Loghain is that one admits the crime was his fault and his responsibility, while Loghain continues to place the blame on someone else(as if everything would've been perfect if it weren't for Howe and Cailan). It's a tough pill to swallow.

Yes, Loghain does tend to do that initially when you talk to him for the first time after recruiting him (and to be honest, some of his counter-arguments have a point... they may be horribly cold and calculating in a moral sense, such as the Alienage-to-Tevinter slave train, but you can see the practicality of some of the decisions). But at some point in the conversation tree, you get to a place where he fully admits that "everything can rightfully be called my fault" or something to that extent. And after that he tends to mellow out and accept that he royally, royally screwed things the heck up.

Very true. Though I suspect just as many people are trying to make Alistair's tantrum into some sort of valid argument against him. It works as an argument in favor of preference(in the, he's whiny, so I don't like him sense), but in the moral sense? Given what he's up against, hardly.

I agree. I can understand Alistair's feelings in that scene and it is gut-wrenching to me everytime, but I'm simply too merciful for my own good. The first play-through, when Riordin stepped in with his suggestion, I was very interested and all for it until Alistair completely flipped his lid. My character was totally in love with Alistair at the time and thought he was just the bee's knees, and basically guilted herself into turning down the Joining route. But she almost let Loghain live even on the first play-through, despite all the damning things he'd done and not having near the meta-gaming knowledge I have now after several play-throughs and reading the prequel books, but she was swayed entirely by Alistair's influence.

Again, you're quite right that if Alistair didn't feel so strongly about it...I would've let Loghain live at the very least. Maybe even consider it fitting, especially so since in Awakening he is sent to serve with the Orlesian wardens. Otherwise, I personally can't say that executing Loghain is the right thing to do, but I see nothing wrong with it either.

Same here. While it is not the route I tend to lean towards, I don't begrudge the folks who do go all Queen of Hearts on him.

[DragonRacer13]

Ripper Ironwill wrote...

DragonRacer you have some solid points there, and ofcourse, the beauty of the game is that it doesnt have a black/white script, but as much as possible life-like, there are some moral decision that can be taken according to your own comprehension of a greater good, or according to the laws of the land or just becose you want it to.

Yes, the game is very good at shades of grey. That's why I find the name "Grey Wardens" to be so appropriate, really.

About Loghain and the Blight, to my understanding, this isnt the first one, and for every other blight there was, it was a grey worden (or more) that killed the archdemon and stoped it. That I think is common knowledge in the game, and even if Loghain didnt know he is facing a real blight, he is willingly crippling Fereldan's defense against a possible future blight by slaying all the wardens, which is not wise.

Not wise at all, no, but I think it's a case of "forgive him, Lord, for he knows not what he does." There have been three or four previous Blights, but the last one occurred 300-400 years before the current setting of Dragon Age. That's a long darn time to be passing down stories and stories always have a way of growing larger than life. I don't think it's a stretch to think that, after 300-400 years of re-telling the glory of the Grey Wardens, that Loghain may suspect that their story is blown out of proportion. After all, there was a time when the Grey Wardens collected money and tithes from folks and one can look at that with suspicion if one doesn't entirely believe that a Blight is unstoppable without them. And Loghain especially has reason to not trust them because a) the Grey Wardens were banished from Fereldan because they tried to usurp the king at the time (Warden's Keep/Soldier's Peak DLC gives insight on that) and in the prequel book "The Calling," Orlesian Grey Wardens end up involved in a plot to kidnap King Maric. So, Loghain doesn't exactly have a whole lot of the "respect and awe" factor towards the Grey Wardens that most regular folks do.

About Zevran and Sten, youre pretty right. This brings in discussion the question about after how many crimes is it moral to take away somebody's chance for redemption... One attempt to kill for Zevran, the murder of a whole family by Sten or the multiple crimes of Loghain?

Understood. As I mentioned in a post I just made earlier, I tend to be too merciful and forgiving for my own good sometimes, so that probably comes down to an individual's personality when weighing the options of killing or sparing Loghain.

Zevran is trying to kill me, he fails and I show mercy...its a crime that affects only me and so its up only to me if I show him mercy or not. Also, I get the feeling Zevran had no say in this one...it was either kill me or be killed by his superiors.

This is true, although one could argue about the many he's killed before you and those he may kill afterwards (since he admits he enjoys being an assassin, even though it was a life not originally chosen by him, and would likely continue to be one after the Blight is over... he would just rather be a freelance assassin rather than one stuck with the Crows).

With Sten its something else. I know he killed a family, and he openly admits it. Altho, I dont know the whole story and circumstances of this crime. Somehow, for such a proud warrior, I got the feeling there is something untold, that he cant take pride in just killing a defenseless family. Maybe he openly admits it, thinking that nobody will believe his story anyway, and he looks for the mercy of beeing killed where he stands, so he wont be the mockery of children, a proud warrior locked in a cage like an animal.

Your instincts about Sten are correct. If you raise his approval enough, you can get that story out of him. I won’t spoil it for you here, but it can seem, at first hearing, that the murder was for very odd and dubious reasons. But once one understands qunari beliefs a bit better, one can understand his actions better.

About Loghain, well, his actions affects everybody, not just my warden, and are close to seal the doom of a kingdom. So, Im not the judge in his case, Im just the executioner. Its not up to me to let him live, and by any laws, godly and menly alike, he deserves death.
 

 
Now that I would argue. If you are not his judge, then who is? As I recall, the terms of the duel is until one of the two yields… not to the death. Loghain yields to you. At that moment, you have a choice to either accept his surrender or execute him. Then, Riordin steps in and makes his suggestion. You can then listen to his suggestion further and side with him or decide to continue with the execution. But nobody tells you to execute Loghain for his crimes except for Alistair. None of the Banns suggests it nor does anyone else present at the Landsmeet. So, yes, you really are both judge and executioner at that point.

Also, at that point in the game, how could I be sure that turning Loghain into a grey warden will make him stay by my side? He ends up doing so, but at that particular moment, not trusting him at all, I have no way of knowing that he wont try to use his new position to continue his actions against me and all my allies.
 

 
Understandable. That choice really is a leap of faith given what you know at the time. But I believe there is a dialogue choice where you can address this concern with Riordin (something along the lines of “How do we know he would suddenly be loyal to us? He certainly hasn’t shown that in the past.”) and Riordin explains that loyalty, once you’re a Grey Warden, doesn’t really matter. You can either help fight the darkspawn or wait out your 30 years in hiding… either way you’ll end up at the Deep Roads. Something to that effect. He addresses it a little better in-game than I can recall off-hand to repeat here. But yes, even then it’s still a risk. If you take in this old war dog, you do risk the potential that he could just turn around and bite you.

There is also the peril, that already turned into a grey warden, Loghain will try to lead the wardens, becose he seems to like to be in charge. He might try to make wardens from his closest men and allies and we could end up with two gray warden factions, too occupied to kill eachother to actually stand against the blight. I think of it this way..If Loghain is a warden, he wont need my archdemon killing skills anyway, so he has one less reason to not try to kill me and Alistair.
 

 
Yeah, I got nothing to argue against that. Other than Loghain seems perfectly willing to accept defeat at the time he yields to you. It seems like a moment where the light bulb finally goes off in his head, so to speak. But that’s purely speculative on my part.

Anyway, I already plan to let Loghain live in a game, so I could experience first hand whats this all about

 
It’s certainly worth doing at least once. You really see another side of his character. Once you get past the initial squabble back at camp and start raising his approval rating of you, he can really be quite insightful and personable. And if you have him with you when about to strike the killing blow against the Archdemon (and neither of you has done Morrigan’s Dark Ritual, meaning someone’s gotta die), I think you’ll be impressed with the full circle he makes from being a hero, falling from grace, then redeeming himself.