39 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

What's the deal with this obsession?

Harbinger makes a deal with the Shadow Broker to get Shepard's body.
When that fails Harbinger attacks Horizon because one of Shepard's human companions is on that planet (I must clarify that it's a human companion because Wrex isn't exactly in hiding and the Collectors never go near Tuchanka).
Harbinger's dialogue during battle is mostly about Shepard, he even states: "Preserve Shepard's body if possible." So interest is still high.

There's also talk about pain. Harbinger says that pain is an illusion and that sentient beings should not fear pain, however he also repeats lines about making Shepard feel pain.

I'm confused here. The Illusive Man's the only person who even notices this obsession in the game and his hypothesis is simply that the Reapers are interested because Shepard killed Sovereign (although Joker really did the killing blow). I'm not sure I buy this. I have nothing to disprove this hypothesis and it is the only one we're told....but a lot more people were involved in Sovereign's demise. But Harbinger seems to have wandering eyes as well since he comments on squad mates during battle:

Tali- “Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating.”

Thane- “Drell; useless, insufficient numbers.”

Zaeed- “Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled.”

Samara- “Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”

Mordin- “Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure.”

Miranda- “Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability.”

Legion- “Geth; an annoyance, limited utility.”

Kasumi- “Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential.”

Jacob- “Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated.”

Jack- “Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential.”

Grunt- “Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted.”

Garrus- “Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

At first it appeared that he's talking about races but the different comments on the human characters may mean that he's commenting on the individuals themselves.

So while Harbinger sees Zaeed, Miranda, Jack, Kasumi, and Jacob as viable possibilities what is it that makes Shepard more desirable? And what is it, exactly, that they're a viable possibility for?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Harbinger is a stalker...

Modifié par ReconTeam, 03 juillet 2010 - 08:08 .

[CroGamer002]

Gee I don't know maybe he/she killed a Reaper?

Besides there are 6 classes for him/her so there has to be six more lines when Shepard dies.

Wait, you get critical mission failure if he/she dies since it's not like in KOTOR and Dragon Age.

[faction699]

because the reapers want to use humans to make reapers and see shepard as the most important human, and thus would like to use him for them?



pretty uh, obvious, i thought

[kaimanaMM]

 I do think the fact that Shepard was a thorn in Sovereign's side and thus also is one in the Reapers' does figure in to it.  It was Shepard who orchestrated Sov's death, regardless of whether s/he had the actual killing blow.

I've seen it talked about around here before, but it's possible that Harbinger's interest in Shepard alone is because the Reapers intended to infuse Shepard into the human Reaper, to be it's soul, for lack of a better word, or controlling entity.  

We know the Reaper's tried to Reaperize the Protheans which resulted in failure thus leading them to turn the Protheans into the Collectors.  The Protheans, so far, were the most advanced civilization the universe has seen. The Reapers see humanity diverging from the path that has kept the cycle going, due in no small part to Shepard.  Thus, their general interest in humanity is not only to get them back on track (so to say) but also to juice them up for human slushees, infusing humanity into the Reapers and use what knowledge, genetic data, etc., against them and the other races to continue the cycle.

[Privateerkev]

I'm much more concerned with his obsession with Jacob...

[didymos1120]

Foolsfolly wrote...
 The Illusive Man's the only person who even notices this obsession in the game and his hypothesis is simply that the Reapers are interested because Shepard killed Sovereign (although Joker really did the killing blow).

Which Joker (and actually, it wasn't Joker, but Joker and everyone else that crewed the Normandy) couldn't have done had Shep not fought to the top of the tower, dispatched Saren, taken control of the Citadel and opened up the relays and the ward arms, and then fought and defeated Sovereign's avatar made of charred Saren, which provided a crucial distraction and glitched Sovereign enough to make it drop its shields.   Yes, it was a team effort, but that team was Team Shep.  Its members were under Shep's command, and many were personally recruited by Shep, often at great personal risk.  Of course they share in the glory, but without Shep, they'd have never had their shot at it. So, yes, Sovereign's death was a direct result of the commander's actions. 

[Dinnertable]

Watch to the end

[The Unfallen]

Harbinger is not 'obsessed' with Shepard. Shepard is a viable subject for study, other than that, he is below the notice of the Reapers as a threat. They are not threatened by anything organic, really. The Collectors had a right to fear him, Reapers...



...I dunno we'll have to wait and see.

[InHarmsWay]

Well according to the Liara/Shadowbroker files, which may or may not be a dlc for later. It's said that The interest in Shepard is due to the fact that his mind was able to handle the Prothean visions and cipher and has very little to do with the defeat of Sovereign. Most minds would have been destroyed by that.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

kaimanaMM wrote...

I've seen it talked about around here before, but it's possible that Harbinger's interest in Shepard alone is because the Reapers intended to infuse Shepard into the human Reaper, to be it's soul, for lack of a better word, or controlling entity.  

This is what I was thinking. It's possible that Reapers are created with one individual as sort of the "head." It would only be natural that Harbinger would want Shepard as the head of a human reaper.

[lovgreno]

The other reapers keeps telling Harbringer: Ah yes, "Shepard" we have dismissed that claim!

So now the frustrated Harbringer is a bit obsessed about getting its tentacles on Shepard so it can show those other something they can't dismiss.

[ODST Steve]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Well according to the Liara/Shadowbroker files, which may or may not be a dlc for later. It's said that The interest in Shepard is due to the fact that his mind was able to handle the Prothean visions and cipher and has very little to do with the defeat of Sovereign. Most minds would have been destroyed by that.

I remember this when listening to the files.

[Chuvvy]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Well according to the Liara/Shadowbroker files, which may or may not be a dlc for later. It's said that The interest in Shepard is due to the fact that his mind was able to handle the Prothean visions and cipher and has very little to do with the defeat of Sovereign. Most minds would have been destroyed by that.

What about Seran?

[ODST Steve]

Remember they for whatever reason con only build new reapers with humans saren is not human

[Sursion]

Maybe the Reapers want to make a new slave race and they want Shepard to lead them? Much like the Collector General commands the Collectors?



Maybe the Collector General was a lot like Shepard back when the Protheans still existed.

[NICKjnp]

Sursion wrote...

Maybe the Reapers want to make a new slave race and they want Shepard to lead them? Much like the Collector General commands the Collectors?

Maybe the Collector General was a lot like Shepard back when the Protheans still existed.

The Collector General is a drone like all the other collectors.  The regular collectors have no will of their own because it was replaced by tech.  The Collector General is just the fancy collector harbinger uses to type stuff on the collector computer... nothing more.  He has no soul... it was replaced by tech.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Wow I have NEVER heard Harbinger say those things about the squad mates? Does he say that in any battle or at certain points?



Anyways I think he's obsessed just because Shepard is the sole reason Sovereign was defeated.

[Foolsfolly]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Well according to the Liara/Shadowbroker files, which may or may not be a dlc for later. It's said that The interest in Shepard is due to the fact that his mind was able to handle the Prothean visions and cipher and has very little to do with the defeat of Sovereign. Most minds would have been destroyed by that.

Ok that would help explain the obsession a lot more than "He killed a Reaper" because a lot of people had a hand in killing Sovie. This would leave Shepard and Liara and possibly Shiala as the only people to even have any of the beacon's knowledge in their heads and only Shepard did it directly with the beacon. That's an angle I hope they play up in future DLC and even ME3.

[The Big Nothing]

Shepard is the only one who can truly make a difference, as he is one of the few who actually believe in the Reapers.
Shepard is attempting to gather forces to combat the Reapers. Without him, the galaxy would be completely ignorant and unprepared for a Reaper invasion.
Harbinger, logically, wants to maintain his clandestine approach so he can attack an unsuspecting galaxy, and sees Shepard as a threat to that.
Not to mention, Shepard killed his homie.

As for wanting to preserve Shepard's body, Harbinger likely wants to turn him in to Saren 2.0, if possible. Shepard has considerable sway in the galaxy, and a puppet in a position of power is quite an asset.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 03 juillet 2010 - 06:55 .

[maddenking2010]

Harbringers interest in shepard is because he is the first being in the galaxys history that has been able foul up there plans. Shepard represnets humanitys potential. The alliance fleet destroyed sovriegn, peeking his interest with humanity even further. When Harbringer addresses your human teamates, its not so much hes interested in each individual, its that these individuals represent all that humans can do as a race. Human biotic talent, genetic diversity, technical prowes, and agression as a race imrpesses him.

[jojon2se]

Hmm, I wonder whether Harbinger would have commented differently, if you had brought another Asari than Samara.

While he is pointing out traits that comes out a bit extra in the individuals Shepard brings along, it is still the entire species that is judged. The Asari did evolve just fine on their own until first contact, as far as we know (who knows *what* they were doing down on Thessia in the past, though ), but then we have Morinths "genetic destiny" belief... Just what is going on with the integrated bicycle helmet ladies?

On Shepard; it seems to fit the old template story that (s)he's the cliche "chosen one" and as such considered for overlording the latest reaper nation, so I'll go with that theory until further notice.

[Foolsfolly]

maddenking2010 wrote...

Harbringers interest in shepard is because he is the first being in the galaxys history that has been able foul up there plans. Shepard represnets humanitys potential. The alliance fleet destroyed sovriegn, peeking his interest with humanity even further. When Harbringer addresses your human teamates, its not so much hes interested in each individual, its that these individuals represent all that humans can do as a race. Human biotic talent, genetic diversity, technical prowes, and agression as a race imrpesses him.

That's not accurate. Reapers are very patient it was theorized in the first game by a few people including Benezia that Sovereign had tried for a long long time to get to the Citadel and that Saren was the latest of his endeavors. It's also all but confirmed in ME2 that the Reapers were behind the Rachni invasion.

But more to the point, some species knew about and fought the Reapers and managed to kill the Derelict Reaper. It didn't stop the Reapers but it killed one which is exactly what Shepard did prior to ME2.

The Reapers know about set-backs so Shepard isn't the only one to stop their glorious machine. The beacon idea is now my favorite....but still not canon until a DLC or the next game expands on it.

And I do believe Harbinger's talking directly to the team mates. Zaeed has a lot of aggression, Kasumi's got great talent at tech, Jack is a biotic force, and Miranda's been highly genetically modified. Harbinger's comments to these humans are very specific. I think Harbinger's looking for a single person for something...maybe leading an army or something but I have no idea what.

[Fizzeler]

It could be Harbinger wants to indoctrinate Shepard, remember even Sovereign saw that Shepard would be a powerful ally (end of ME1) and with Shepard as Harbinger's puppet, it could easily complete its Human Reaper and more