61 réponses à ce sujet

[NICKjnp]

This thread was inspired by the "Adept isn't fun" thread.  In it there were concerns about what should and should not be changed to the adept class in ME3.  So what changes would you like to see for the adept class in ME3?  What things do you think should stay?

[Aulis Vaara]

Make powers work on protected enemies as well. To a lesser extent of course. Half the duration and power for each layer of protection or something similar to that. Could just do damage to shields or barriers too, since that would make some sense. Armor shouldn't have too much of an impact though.

[Computer_God91]

make barrier like in ME1. the barrier in ME2 sucks.

[Foolsfolly]

Biotic powers affect shield/armor/barrier protected enemies. Things like shockwave/pull are utterly useless on Hardcore+.



Maybe have more direct damage attack too. Tech damage attacks include Incinerate, Cryoblast, Overload, Energy Drain, and Combat Drone.



Direct Damage Biotics are Warp, Reave, and Slam.

[Bozorgmehr]

If you're having trouble against protected enemies - play < Veteran difficulty. At those levels Adepts are incredibly powerful. When biotic powers can be used against 'protected' enemies it breaks the game - you wouldn't notice any difference between Casual and Insanity since throwing an enemy of a ledge will kill him/her instantly no matter what difficulty you're playing. Insanity should be extremely hard (which it isn't), but I agree that the Adept suffers most when the difficulty level is increased.



The good/bad thing is that ME2 is designed to be a shooter with rpg elements (ME1 the other way around). I really like the new combat system - its much more streamlined making the action more intense, but to keep things manageable Bioware decided to reduce to number of abilities and making them less important (powerful). ME2 isn't a 'traditional' rpg where a mage can defeat the most powerful foe without having to rely on physical force. To get the most out of ME2 you'll have to use guns and Adepts can use all (except the unique (Clay-Rev-Widow)).



Overall I think Adepts are the most fun and the most challenging class around (Insanity). Nothing beats the sight of watching a group of enemies practicing for the Olympic Gymnastics

[mcsupersport]

1) Biotics effects(throw, pull, slam and singularity) effect armor but don't do damage(no warp explosions with armor on).

2) Shield shortens duration, and limits damage 1/2.

3) Barrier protects fully.



But honestly it would probably make the Adept too powerful if these changes were made, they are close to it now, but then again most of the other classes are already so it would balance out.

[FRZN]

I'm finding the adept on insanity to be the easiest I've tried so far actually (I haven't tried soldier or sentinel, and don't intend to). Warp shreds armor and barriers (not to mention explosions), singularity is great for trapping and setting up combos, and throw is great for getting instant kills. I've found pull to be mostly (and shockwave entirely) useless though. I'm also pretty dependent on my teammates (garrus and miranda) for overload.
On your teammates however I'm finding biotics to be of little use because they don't have the breadth of abilities or the recharge times to be anything but very situational. I think it would be good to be able to select a bonus power on your companions (out of a small pool of powers with one option against each defense type) so that you're a little less restricted in who you need to bring with you.

Modifié par FRZN, 03 juillet 2010 - 10:20 .

[2kgnsiika]

The best suggestion I've heard is that all biotic classes should have a special "Biotic Focus Mode", in which they are able to use their biotic powers in a more devastating way but are more vulnerable and unable to use other weapons (and possibly unable to take cover or run).



And while I agree that simply being able to pull/throw an armored/shielded enemy would be game breaking on Insanity in ME2, I was initially very annoyed by the fact nontheless. It goes against the lore AND common sense.

[Evilbrood]

Adept is a powerhouse, if played correctly. Barrier is lacking though.

[Hulk Hsieh]

I want a Biotic power that works on scene objects rather than enemy.
Moving away a crate so I can shoot someone behind it would be cool.
Crushing a crate onto someone's head would be even cooler.

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 04 juillet 2010 - 04:40 .

[N7M]

"Adept only" biotically charged melee attacks. Wouldn't need many, two perhaps, one to knock enemies down/away and another knocking them up/away. Don't care if it works on shielded/armoured targets or not.



I like Hulk Hsieh's ideas also.

[i love lamp x3]

i agree that the adept is powerful on lower difficulties but playing on insanity they seem pretty weak as powers have little effect on enemies with barriers and shields or armor, especially when swarms of armored husks are charging towards you. i like the idea of a brief biotic focus mode. maybe it could last somewhere between 5 to 20 seconds and you can use a power such as warp continuously (maybe even using both hands to blast them) to break down barriers and shields of enemies. make it like as effective as a soldier with a high powered assault rifle with disruptor/incendiary ammo burning through shields/armor. and i think hulk hsieh's idea of lifting objects to throw or move or whatever is really cool. i'd like for it to be possible for the adept to literally not even need to use a gun if one so chooses.



for all classes i'd like to see more melee attacks or biotic melee attacks. idk if this could work out but maybe melee weapons could be a nice addition.. especially for a class like the vanguard.. perhaps it can be some sort of disruptor melee weapon so the vanguard can kind of charge around cutting down barriers/shields... just a thought.



anyway can't wait for the third game

[Bozorgmehr]

i love lamp x3 wrote...

i agree that the adept is powerful on lower difficulties but playing on insanity they seem pretty weak as powers have little effect on enemies with barriers and shields or armor, especially when swarms of armored husks are charging towards you.

Adept vs Husks problematic? Solo Shotgun Adept IFF Mission

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
If you're having trouble against protected enemies - play < Veteran
difficulty. At those levels Adepts are incredibly powerful. When biotic
powers can be used against 'protected' enemies it breaks the game - you
wouldn't notice any difference between Casual and Insanity since
throwing an enemy of a ledge will kill him/her instantly no matter what
difficulty you're playing.

This is wrong. The game designers just have to include penalties like less strenght/duration and/or longer cooldown times if biotics were used against "protected system". "The protection system" didnt make the game hard and challenging.More annoying and boring instead(singularity and warp spam most of the time). Honestly, it the most dumb idea imaginable to "balance" biotics.
A jedi/mage had to destroy stormtrooper shields before he/she could use the force.Idiotic,but this is true in this game.
They could make heavy weapons exclusive for the soldier-but let me use biotics on all enemies,including ymir mechs.

Modifié par tonnactus, 04 juillet 2010 - 02:32 .

[Tali 4 the win]

instant kill biotic power

[NICKjnp]

I think that all biotica classes should have a biotic melee (similar to Jack's attack on the Ymir mechs when you first release her) but I don't think it should be any different from any other melee from the other classes. I only want it for purely asthetic reasons.... similar to how there is a blue aura around Shepard and Co. when biotics are used. Throw and pull should at least do damage to shields, barriers and armor. Shockwave should knock over enemies with shields, barrier and armor as well as damage those defenses but not send them flying unless their defenses are down. I like warp and reave fine. And as others have said... barrier should be returned to all classes.

[archurban]

bioware needs to invent more biotic powers. yeah, adept is very interesting class. I love it. maybe additional powers could be borrowed by other games? why not? bioshock or singularity is a good example.

[Worrywort]

more powers
no shockwave
no universal cooldown
light armor

Modifié par Worrywort, 05 juillet 2010 - 06:37 .

[Mr. Sprinkles101]

Like everyone else is saying, I would like biotics to effect enemies regardless if they have a shield

[N7M]

NICKjnp wrote...

I think that all biotica classes should have a biotic melee (similar to Jack's attack on the Ymir mechs when you first release her) but I don't think it should be any different from any other melee from the other classes. I only want it for purely asthetic reasons.... similar to how there is a blue aura around Shepard and Co. when biotics are used. Throw and pull should at least do damage to shields, barriers and armor. Shockwave should knock over enemies with shields, barrier and armor as well as damage those defenses but not send them flying unless their defenses are down. I like warp and reave fine. And as others have said... barrier should be returned to all classes.

I agree all biotic classes should have a biotic melee, but I think they should vary in effect since their training would vary after a certain point. The adept I see as a mastermind class. Perhaps powers that buff squad members could also be considered, but thats more about my taste in gameplay.

For attacks, it is ME canon that biotics are able to channel mass effect fields into strikes(re:Kaidan vs. Vyrnnus) and this aspect of the class should be accessable for combat during gameplay.

After reading and considering the posts, this thread has me leaning to agree with your points about biotics affecting shields/armor. I kind of liked the challenge but it is difficult to avoid warp spamming vorcha/krogan due to class limitation.

Modifié par weirder, 05 juillet 2010 - 10:03 .

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

This is wrong. The game designers just have to include penalties like less strenght/duration and/or longer cooldown times if biotics were used against "protected system". "The protection system" didnt make the game hard and challenging.More annoying and boring instead(singularity and warp spam most of the time). Honestly, it the most dumb idea imaginable to "balance" biotics.
A jedi/mage had to destroy stormtrooper shields before he/she could use the force.Idiotic,but this is true in this game.
They could make heavy weapons exclusive for the soldier-but let me use biotics on all enemies,including ymir mechs.

Like I said before - if biotics can be used against enemies with defenses it breaks the game. Things will become like ME1 where Adepts can disable all enemies without them ever firing a single shot changing fights into target practice. I don't want that, but if you like to play that way, its pretty easy to mod the game (use the settings of Insanity level with Veteran and add some aditional health).
I remember at least one scene where a Jedi is attacked by a droid (those things that roll into battle) with shields. Their weapons (and the Force) where useless and the only thing they could do was run.

I would like a more dynamic enviroment. During the Samara recruitment mission you'll have to fight Wasea who's throwing chemical barrels at you using biotics. It would be cool if Adepts could do something similar like pulling explosive crates and throwing them at enemies. Even better would be a destructable enviroment enabling Adepts to destroy fortified positions with biotics and/or use debree like a shield when closing in on the enemy and smash the piece of debree in their faces when close enough (like the gravity gun in HL2).

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Like I said before - if biotics can be used against enemies with defenses it breaks the game.

And i disagree with this. First,you use singularity,right? it works on defenses and because of the short cooldown times it could be used frequently. The only enemies that are not affected by singularity are geth primes, heavy mechs and,to make things absolutely idiotic, varren and fenris mechs.On the first two enemies the player use heavy weapons anyway,what an adept shouldnt do or shouldnt rely on to speed things up.The other ones are not really dangerous.
All other enemies,even harbinger and scions were stopped with this.So  did singularity breaks the game or is it just boring that its the only ability that work on "protected" enemies?

Modifié par tonnactus, 05 juillet 2010 - 03:22 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

tonnactus wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Like I said before - if biotics can be used against enemies with defenses it breaks the game.

And i disagree with this. First,you use singularity,right? it works on defenses and because of the short cooldown times it could be used frequently.

So did singularity breaks the game or is it just boring that its the only ability that work on "protected" enemies?

Hmm i dont recall ever seeing protected enemies getting thrown about & set up for a warp bomb by singularity when they still had their defenses up.

All it does is just stumble them till it wares off, which pull, throw & shockwave also do but just ware off right away while singularity lasts a bit.

ME2 is more fast paced combat then ME1 & because of the much shorter cooldowns if an Adept powers worked on defenses like in ME1 it would definitely be broken.
That being said the system they have now is still pretty dumb & needs changed for ME3;) 

[FourSixEight]

I have to say that personally I think that removing the cooldown for the Adept, while fun, would be the WORST possible solution to balancing the classes. Consider that in ME1 you could easily make an Adept that could launch people into orbit and turn them into bloody paste on demand, and refresh all of those powers with Adrenaline Burst to keep the carnage non-stop.

In ME2 they were hit with the nerf bat, that's true, but it was with good intentions. I would propose giving the Adepts a new power instead to compensate for their weaknesses.

Let's call it 'Shred.' It'd be a projectile of unstable dark energy the biotic could send out that would disrupt kinetic barriers/shields and damage armor. It wouldn't do any damage, but would have a fairly short cooldown and in addition to being effective against the shields of the enemy you're targeting, could have a mild stun effect on unprotected enemies.

This would leave the Adept free to pick a power that's not Energy Drain. They could pick Barrier to improve their survivability dramatically, or pick an ammo power for greatly increased versatility.

Modifié par FourSixEight, 05 juillet 2010 - 05:19 .