61 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...



Hmm i dont recall ever seeing protected enemies getting thrown about & set up for a warp bomb by singularity when they still had their defenses up.

Warp bomb only work when defenses are gone.And yes,their work with singularity too.

All it does is just stumble them till it wares off, which pull, throw & shockwave also do but just ware off right away while singularity lasts a bit.

Not only a bit.You could take out a Harbinger controlled drone or a scion completly out of the fight.What make xceptions like ymirs,geth primes and varren/fenris mechs completly stupid.Arent the reaper controlled collectors the biggest threats in the game??? Humanity just have to make sure to make enough heavy mechs i guess.

ME2 is more fast paced combat then ME1 & because of the much shorter cooldowns if an Adept powers worked on defenses like in ME1 it would definitely be broken.
That being said the system they have now is still pretty dumb & needs changed for ME3;) 

Dumb is an understatement. The only thing that is even more idiotic are the cooldowns for cambat drones of squadmates.30 s in a system of global cooldown,all other usefull abilities blocked for this time.And drones dont last long on insanity.

Modifié par tonnactus, 05 juillet 2010 - 08:44 .

[JaegerBane]

I'd like to see some kind of sense being brought into the difficulty levels, with regards to Adepts. If I pick a higher difficulty level, I'd expect to have to play my class with a lot more skill... not have to play my class like an entirely different class.

I'd like to see Bioware figure out what they want to do with the Adept. 'The class that can wipe out enemies without firing a shot' sounds all well and good - but the class physically needs to be able to do this, otherwise statements such as those above don't make sense.

More guns. I'm not asking for a soldier's payload, but for god's sake, why must they be restricted to just pistols? What's wrong with having an Assault Rifle from the start?

A signature skill that is in par with the Vanguard's Charge and the Soldier's AR etc. Singularity is good... but it simply isn't in the league of the others. Something self-augmentative. Jack's Biotic mega-punch would be good.

[FRZN]

The problem is that the adepts powers completely disable enemies, and groups of enemies. An enemy that can't attack is as little danger on insanity as it is on easy. So... why not simply let them keep shotting their guns as they float through the air under the influence of pull and singularity? They'd still be good tools for pulling enemies out of cover and restricting their movement. More violent effects like throw, shockwave (although it'd rather not see it return), and lift would still prevent shooting but their short duration and tendency to spread enemies apart would prevent you from permanently disabling an entire group of foes (defenses would absorb force in proportion to how much you have and in how many layers).

Or maybe using a biotic power on an armored enemy should double the recharge for each layer of defense they have.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

And i disagree with this. First,you use singularity,right? it works on defenses and because of the short cooldown times it could be used frequently. The only enemies that are not affected by singularity are geth primes, heavy mechs and,to make things absolutely idiotic, varren and fenris mechs.On the first two enemies the player use heavy weapons anyway,what an adept shouldnt do or shouldnt rely on to speed things up.The other ones are not really dangerous.
All other enemies,even harbinger and scions were stopped with this.So  did singularity breaks the game or is it just boring that its the only ability that work on "protected" enemies?

The short cooldown of Singularity doesn't matter. You can only have one active at a time - the moment you use Singularity again the previous one disolves. Singularities can have a duration up to 45 s and can hold up to 6 enemies at once for 9 s. You should only use them once or a couple of times during a fight (don't spam). I don't mind that powers don't work against all enemies, that makes the game a little more complex and it's always nice to use different tactics against different enemies. I agree that its kinda weird that it doesn't affect Varren, but can stop a (armored) Krogan.

Removing defenses and/or making biotics work against protected enemies breaks the game, making it far to easy (like I explained before). I prefer the protection system over the usual 'give enemies a huge health bonus to make games more difficult' system. Is it perfect? No. Can it be improved? Yes. But how? Good question.

Bioware designed ME2 combat to be fast paced and intense (I like that). But by doing so they had to simplify the power/ability system because it is very hard (close to impossible) to focus on the fighting, manoeuvring and your squadies and at the same time using your (squad) abilities. I don't like micro management in games but due to the universal lack of decent AI behavior (friend and foe alike) the more complex games become - the more micro management will be involved. AI will not be improves dramatically in ME3 so Bioware has to think of something else instead. A dynamic enviroment can change things significantly, making biotic (and tech) ablities much more versatile. Just look at what the gravity gun did to Half Life 2.

But in the end it comes down to personal preference. Do you prefer the ME1 combat system (pretty slow, micro managing, but access to many powers/abilities) or the ME2 system (fast, intense, no micro managing, but with fewer and less important/powerful abilities)?

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 05 juillet 2010 - 10:21 .

[OTFSTW]

Joke response: There's a difficulty other than insanity?



Serious response: Adepts are fine. It wasn't what we were expecting, but playing an Adept on insanity is so much fun I just don't understand the complaints.



I'd be okay with something like "using a power on an enemy with defenses causes additional cool down for that power", but it really isn't necessary.



I'd prefer even more powers, like telekinesis on objects as suggested.

[Handren]

Get rid of the completely asanine fact that Biotics don`t work on ARMOR. It makes absolutely no sense. Shields yes, Barriers, of course, but ARMOR? No way.

[mrc390]

I think the reason adepts are not very popular is because you have to rely on your squad mates a lot more,with most other classes I just switch my team mates on auto pilot and let them do what they want,when using the adept I have to have a strategy:*(.As thataveragegatsby said "Biotics are meant to be used in concert with eachother"

[JaegerBane]

mrc390 wrote...

I think the reason adepts are not very popular is because you have to rely on your squad mates a lot more,with most other classes I just switch my team mates on auto pilot and let them do what they want,when using the adept I have to have a strategy:*(.As thataveragegatsby said "Biotics are meant to be used in concert with eachother"

That's an astute observation. It's only really true on levels above Veteran, but yeah, Adepts, for some reason, have to rely more upon their team mates, which tends to make them feel a bit limp.

I'm not actually against having to use team mates - I just wish this was true of all classes. Out and out cheese parades like the Soldier barely notice their team mates.

[Akai San Kaku Tou]

Universal cool-down prevents cloak and power use combo for the infiltrator.

Many powers which can not penetrate special defenses on harder difficulties become useless. Forcing every player to come up with "the highest damage possible" build takes out the fun and strategic aspect of the game. I stopped playing the game because the easier difficulties were not challenging enough and hardcore (insanity too) was completely boring since all that mattered was how much damage you dealt.

These issues need a fix.

Also the classes need more flexibility. You should be able to choose between different versions of the same class each with a slightly different power set (I am also in for completely custom classes).

Why can't I play a Vanguard with Distruptor Ammo or an Infiltrator with Cryo Blast? Makes perfect sense to me.

Modifié par Akai San Kaku Tou, 06 juillet 2010 - 10:49 .

[JaegerBane]

Akai San Kaku Tou wrote...
Also the classes need more flexibility. You should be able to choose between different versions of the same class each with a slightly different power set (I am also in for completely custom classes).

Why can't I play a Vanguard with Distruptor Ammo or an Infiltrator with Cryo Blast? Makes perfect sense to me.

AMEN TO THIS.

It wasn't as bad in ME1 where all classes of a certain type had the bread and butter stuff (biotics all had Throw and Lift etc) and ammo could be used by anyone with a gun, but there really needs to be much less restrictions on ammos and powers in ME2.

I like the idea of them being a power... but we should really be able to select which ones.

[Pacifien]

There's a lot more I'd change in ME3 besides the Adept.

I think Insanity needs to work differently. I think defenses need to work differently as well. I don't see why a Blue Suns merc has shields on Insanity but not during Normal. Simply make the shield less powerful on a lower difficulty setting, but there's no reason why an enemy in armor shouldn't have it. Nor why a biotic shouldn't have barrier. But adding armor to a husk or varren? Increase their health.

Also think enemy tactics should improve dramatically as you increase the difficulty level. More flanking. More coordination between the team. Also, using even more powers against you. Why not get hit by a Lift? They can't use every power against you, because one Throw off a bridge and the game is over a little to sadistically and easily. Why not get the enemy to use Energy Drain on you? Overheat the weapons again.

Ammo powers is ridiculous. There's no reason why an Adept can't use armor-piercing rounds. The only ammo power I can see having a limitation on it is Warp Ammo.

If they want to limit how many powers you can choose for a class, I think it should be up to the player to determine what those powers are going to be. Like give a Vanguard a list of biotic powers they can choose to use. I'd rather my Vanguard have had Warp versus Shockwave and Pull, for instance. Same with the techs.

Of course, without ammot powers and not having the ability to use biotics or tech powers, the Soldier class is going to need an overhall. I don't know where to even start since it's the class I have the least amount of experience.

But this thread is about Adepts, yeah? Well, already said this with the Vanguard, but choosing which powers you want for an Adept as well.

I agree that the Adepts powers should work under a decreasing level of power as the difficulty increases, same as any other power beyond biotics. Rather than having to wait for squadmates to eat through shields, use a short acting Pull against them. There's no reason why a Shockwave couldn't do some damage to an enemy with Armor.

What other powers to use for Adepts and biotics in general? What do we have access to now... Barrier, Charge, Dominate, Pull, Reave, Shockwave, Singularity, Slam, Throw, Warp...

Pull is essentially Lift. So is Slam, to a point. Do people enjoy the actually pulling element to Pull, forcing the enemy toward you? Or would you rather just have the enemies Lift? I prefer Lift. And I think an enemy should need a moment to recover once the Lift is done. Slam is your slightly different version of Lift where you actually force the enemy down for extra damage. What would then prevent people from using Slam versus Lift? Perhaps the greater duration of Lift and the fact you can Lift multiple targets versus Slam.

Throw versus Shockwave. Shockwave has the ability to affect multiple targets on the ground from the very beginning while you had to evolve Throw to Throw Field to get the same result for enemies in the air. Both powers are about pushing the enemy away, doing damage as they get tossed aside. Do we need both? It's not like you need to do Lift before Throw, you can use it while the enemies are on the ground just as easily as Shockwave.

Warp versus Reave. They will both work against armor, barriers, and health, both prevent health regeneration. Reave gets the benefit of then giving you health while incapacitating the enemy for a moment. Warp gets the benefit of setting up an explosion. Reave is instant while Warp must be aimed. Take away the health regeneration and incapacitation aspect, the only benefit you'll get from Reave over Warp is the immediate affect. However, I can see the benefit of immediate effect versus the warp explosion, so I wouldn't mind if they reduced the abilities of Reave.

Singularity has been the Adept's friend in ME1 and ME2. However, what I didn't like about Singularity in ME1 was how it would pull everything, not just the enemies, toward it. Unfortunately, this makes a lot more sense that Singularity would pull anything into its gravity well. I think Singularity should have a friendly fire consequence to it. Why would it differentiate between friend or foe? It's a gravity well. It pulls everything in.

I wouldn't bring back Stasis, but instead replace it with a form of Crush. Greatly slows your enemy while damaging armor and health to a degree as you turn your enemy's own mass against him. In fact, this might be a good replacement to Reave. If you want to make it an extremely powerful ability, you can have your Adept use Crush against a wave of enemies, but then the Adept is not able to do anything else while the Crush is in effect.

Biotic punch. But with such a powerful melee, why not go as an Adept versus a Soldier? You'd then have to add an equally powerful or more powerful alternative to the class that's supposed to be a better tank than any other class.

Come to think of it, maybe only Soldiers should have training to use heavy weapons. Don't see why other classes shouldn't have access to Assault Rifles, but heavy weapons seems like an ability you'd need to specifically train for.

Sorry, I know I'm just retreading some ideas that have been mentioned already. I was too lazy to read through everything. I am a bad poster.

[FRZN]

Warp versus Reave. They will both work against armor, barriers, and health, both prevent health regeneration. Reave gets the benefit of then giving you health while incapacitating the enemy for a moment. Warp gets the benefit of setting up an explosion. Reave is instant while Warp must be aimed. Take away the health regeneration and incapacitation aspect, the only benefit you'll get from Reave over Warp is the immediate affect. However, I can see the benefit of immediate effect versus the warp explosion, so I wouldn't mind if they reduced the abilities of Reave.

Plus reave can be made into an aoe version, it has that side effect that makes people cringe, and it does damage over time (so it benefits from both duration and from damage increases).  It's actually identical to incinerate except that it's instant, it get a bonus against barriers, and it returns health.  I agree it's not in line with shep's other powers.

[NICKjnp]

FRZN wrote...

Warp versus Reave. They will both work against armor, barriers, and health, both prevent health regeneration. Reave gets the benefit of then giving you health while incapacitating the enemy for a moment. Warp gets the benefit of setting up an explosion. Reave is instant while Warp must be aimed. Take away the health regeneration and incapacitation aspect, the only benefit you'll get from Reave over Warp is the immediate affect. However, I can see the benefit of immediate effect versus the warp explosion, so I wouldn't mind if they reduced the abilities of Reave.

Plus reave can be made into an aoe version, it has that side effect that makes people cringe, and it does damage over time (so it benefits from both duration and from damage increases).  It's actually identical to incinerate except that it's instant, it get a bonus against barriers, and it returns health.  I agree it's not in line with shep's other powers.

Reave (especially area reave) has a lot of qualities that are similar to warp in ME1 (damage over time and area damage).

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

But in the end it comes down to personal preference. Do you prefer the ME1 combat system (pretty slow, micro managing, but access to many powers/abilities) or the ME2 system (fast, intense, no micro managing, but with fewer and less important/powerful abilities)?

This answer is easy. They just had to improve physics resistence for enemies,thats it.Then the system of the first wouldnt be overpowered.And the biotics were different in the first game.Singularity never work on armatures and colossi.Only lift really disabled them for a long time.Only stasis affect flying enemies.
Now only singularity is important and powerfull,only completed by warp.And singularity affect flying drones..

[JaegerBane]

Pacifien wrote...
Ammo powers is ridiculous. There's no reason why an Adept can't use armor-piercing rounds. The only ammo power I can see having a limitation on it is Warp Ammo.

While I have no problem with the concept of ammo powers per se - I think they work quite well, actually - what Is a problem is the idea that ammo powers are arbitrarily given to certain classes. As you point out, this is just utter nonsense. Characters should have been given a number of ammo slots depending on their class's combat focus and the choice of which, left up to the player. Soldiers, for instance, should have been given three, Vanguards and Infils two and everyone else, one.

Warp Ammo, I think, largely avoids these issues being freely selectable by a class, very flexible and versatile and fitting in with the Adept. I actually give it to my Adept as standard and select another bonus power on top of it.

If they want to limit how many powers you can choose for a class, I think it should be up to the player to determine what those powers are going to be. Like give a Vanguard a list of biotic powers they can choose to use. I'd rather my Vanguard have had Warp versus Shockwave and Pull, for instance. Same with the techs.

Agreed. As shooter orientated as it is, this is supposed to be an RPG, not Team Fortress 2185.

Of course, without ammot powers and not having the ability to use biotics or tech powers, the Soldier class is going to need an overhall. I don't know where to even start since it's the class I have the least amount of experience.

Why? They already get the strongest signature power and the widest selection of weapons in the game. They've got enough.

Come to think of it, maybe only Soldiers should have training to use heavy weapons. Don't see why other classes shouldn't have access to Assault Rifles, but heavy weapons seems like an ability you'd need to specifically train for.

Conceptually, I agree - realistically, I think this is a very bad idea. The heavy weapons were intended as fun player-used items. Unless you're advocating all other classes receive a major power to make up for the lost options in heavy weapons, I'm afraid such a change would just reduce the fun of the game.

[Pacifien]

[quote]JaegerBane wrote...
[quote]Pacifien wrote...
Of course, without ammot powers and not having the ability to use biotics or tech powers, the Soldier class is going to need an overhall. I don't know where to even start since it's the class I have the least amount of experience.[/quote]
Why? They already get the strongest signature power and the widest selection of weapons in the game. They've got enough.[/quote]
I guess because any time I feel something is overpowered, I wish they'd overhaul it. This goes for Adrenaline Rush. A great power for Soldiers, but something I feel needs to be cut back on how often it can be used.

And I'm not a fan of limiting Assault Rifles to Soldiers. I know you can pick up the AR ability on the Collector Ship, but I think it's something that should be available much sooner if not at the start of the game. One benefit I'd give the Soldiers is that they have the ability, perhaps, of using the most powerful versions of a weapon as opposed to other classes.

[quote]
Come to think of it, maybe only Soldiers should have training to use heavy weapons. Don't see why other classes shouldn't have access to Assault Rifles, but heavy weapons seems like an ability you'd need to specifically train for.[/quote]
Conceptually, I agree - realistically, I think this is a very bad idea. The heavy weapons were intended as fun player-used items. Unless you're advocating all other classes receive a major power to make up for the lost options in heavy weapons, I'm afraid such a change would just reduce the fun of the game.[/quote]
Perhaps if they allowed squadmate soldiers to carry a heavy weapon that they'll only use if the player directs them to? Give me more incentive to take a soldier along at least.

Not as fun as firing the Cain on the Thresher Maw myself, though. I guess because I want to take away the full awesomeness of Adrenaline Rush away from Soldiers, I felt like I'd better have some ideas of how to make it up to them.

[Fiery Phoenix]

According to Christina Norman's twitter, they won't be waiting for ME3 to make the Adept better.

[Pacifien]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
According to Christina Norman's twitter, they won't be waiting for ME3 to make the Adept better.

With the Kasumi DLC, I found that the developers were looking to push their abilities in level design. With Overlord, it looks like they were working on atmosphere and exploration. With the Aegis DLC, it looks like they were providing Vanguards with a tailor-made armor set, but they also listened to the fans about being able to customize the armor and remove the bloody helmet.

So what do you think they'll provide Adepts in some future DLC? Adept-specific armor this time? A mission that leans more toward a biotics strengths the way Overlord leaned toward tech strengths?

I can't imagine they'd actually provide more power to biotics on the higher difficulties, though. Maybe they would, but I think I would spend a full day in shock.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Pacifien wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
According to Christina Norman's twitter, they won't be waiting for ME3 to make the Adept better.

With the Kasumi DLC, I found that the developers were looking to push their abilities in level design. With Overlord, it looks like they were working on atmosphere and exploration. With the Aegis DLC, it looks like they were providing Vanguards with a tailor-made armor set, but they also listened to the fans about being able to customize the armor and remove the bloody helmet.

So what do you think they'll provide Adepts in some future DLC? Adept-specific armor this time? A mission that leans more toward a biotics strengths the way Overlord leaned toward tech strengths?

I can't imagine they'd actually provide more power to biotics on the higher difficulties, though. Maybe they would, but I think I would spend a full day in shock.

I'm sure they'll figure it out. At least we should be grateful they're listening to us, as always.

[NICKjnp]

Pacifien wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
According to Christina Norman's twitter, they won't be waiting for ME3 to make the Adept better.

With the Kasumi DLC, I found that the developers were looking to push their abilities in level design. With Overlord, it looks like they were working on atmosphere and exploration. With the Aegis DLC, it looks like they were providing Vanguards with a tailor-made armor set, but they also listened to the fans about being able to customize the armor and remove the bloody helmet.

So what do you think they'll provide Adepts in some future DLC? Adept-specific armor this time? A mission that leans more toward a biotics strengths the way Overlord leaned toward tech strengths?

I can't imagine they'd actually provide more power to biotics on the higher difficulties, though. Maybe they would, but I think I would spend a full day in shock.

As an adept I felt ignored in the Overload DLC.  It would be nice to get a mission that focuses more on the strength of biotics.  Do I thik we will get an Adept amor set?  No... the only amor set that would benefit an adept would be one that increased cooldowns, power duration and power damage.  I don't see Bioware making an armor set like that.

[JaegerBane]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

According to Christina Norman's twitter, they won't be waiting for ME3 to make the Adept better.

Well, it's good to know the dissatisfaction with Adepts is being noticed.

I'd love to know how they intend to approach this, though.

[Bozorgmehr]

NICKjnp wrote...

As an adept I felt ignored in the Overload DLC.  It would be nice to get a mission that focuses more on the strength of biotics.

I haven't yet downloaded the Overload dlc so I can't say much about that, but all levels are full of choke points (Singularity) and almost all levels have ledges (instant kills) - perfect for Adepts. The Collector (and Husk) levels are made to be played with an Adept. It ain't that bad.

I can't think of tech focussed missions. If you mean Geth mission then the only power needed is Energy Drain. Even when playing Sentinel or Engineer it's far better to switch to ED instead of Overload (one point in Overload is useful for blowing up crates and Geth Destroyers) and you always have your squadies.

[Pacifien]

I did rather well with my Adept during Overlord, but I also brought two squadmates with Overload. And as we know, it just takes the elimination of shields to then set up the Adept to use his powers at full strength.

[Jade Elf]

The Adept on Veteran and below is already the ultimate Biotic God™. I'm curious as to what changes might be in store.

I've only played through on Insanity once, but for that playthrough I chose the Adept. Great fun. (usually I play Hardcore)

Pacifien wrote...

I did rather well with my Adept during Overlord, but I also brought two squadmates with Overload. And as we know, it just takes the elimination of shields to then set up the Adept to use his powers at full strength.

Indeed, same here.

[The_Lowlife]

hate to necro this but I figured it would be better than starting a new thread. what if in ME3 biotic abilities that disabled large groups like singularity and pull field etc could be used on everyone regardless of protection but the adept had to channel the ability? you wouldn't be able to do this from cover so you'd still get destroyed on insanity if you weren't smart about your biotic usage.