118 réponses à ce sujet

[SSHSpartan]

I loved the ME1 ending a lot, when I first saw the space battle my first time playing the game my Jaw dropped and my first thought  was OMG!!!!!!! EPIC!!! Also the part where the Alliance Fleet jumps into the battle

ME2 Was just as good IMO, but it missed the space battle from the first, what I liked though is that it was an almost impossible land battle, my first time though I was nervous that someone would die in the end, and then after fighting the Reaper  I thought Tali or Mordin was going to die, at frist Tali because she was sliding off the platform, and then Mordin after everyone fell.

Any ways I thought they were both good and I don't have a favorite

[homestyle]

BlackyBlack wrote...

homestyle wrote...

ME2 was waaaay weak.

It was basically 2 missions if you take away all the recruitment missions that didn't give an epic feel.

Eden Prime==Freedom's Progress
Therum==Any Recruitment Mission
Feros==Horizon
Noveria==Collector's Ship
Virmire==Reaper IFF
Ilos==Suicide Mission

What's the problem?

It was the balance. 90% of the game is spent recruiting and doing side loyalty missions. When I say it was 2 missions, I mean it felt like only 2 missions.

Eden Prime==Freedom's Progress
Therum==Any Recruitment Mission
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
Feros==Horizon
Noveria==Collector's Ship
Virmire==Reaper IFF
Ilos==Suicide Mission


Saving the galaxy, saving colonists feels epic.

Making sure you hit puberty, blow up your old prison, etc. does not.

What made ME1 different with loyalty and better was that loyalty was not explicit. It was implicit. In ME1, talking to Ash, Garrus, and turning them away from the renegade made me feel like they would be loyal to me. The game didn't say, all of sudden I do one thing for them, they are now loyal. In ME1, I didn't trust the krogan throughout the game, but sort of hidden, if you did his armor side quest, Wrex would stay alive and be loyal. In my game, Wrex died which flowed and made sense. And more importantly, this wasn't the same mechanic for all characters. In ME2, after the 3rd recruitiment it was predictable.

Modifié par homestyle, 04 juillet 2010 - 04:01 .

[Ooga600]

Both are incredibly epic, although I think ME1 wins for the epic buildup to the final space battle.

[Ecael]

homestyle wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

homestyle wrote...

ME2 was waaaay weak.

It was basically 2 missions if you take away all the recruitment missions that didn't give an epic feel.

Eden Prime==Freedom's Progress
Therum==Any Recruitment Mission
Feros==Horizon
Noveria==Collector's Ship
Virmire==Reaper IFF
Ilos==Suicide Mission

What's the problem?

It was the balance. 90% of the game is spent recruiting and doing side loyalty missions. When I say it was 2 missions, I mean it felt like only 2 missions.

Eden Prime==Freedom's Progress
Therum==Any Recruitment Mission
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
recruit mission
loyalty side quest
Feros==Horizon
Noveria==Collector's Ship
Virmire==Reaper IFF
Ilos==Suicide Mission


Saving the galaxy, saving colonists feels epic.

Making sure you hit puberty, blow up your old prison, etc. does not.

What made ME1 different with loyalty and better was that loyalty was not explicit. It was implicit. In ME1, talking to Ash, Garrus, and turning them away from the renegade made me feel like they would be loyal to me. The game didn't say, all of sudden I do one thing for them, they are now loyal. In ME1, I didn't trust the krogan throughout the game, but sort of hidden, if you did his armor side quest, Wrex would stay alive and be loyal. In my game, Wrex died which flowed and made sense. And more importantly, this wasn't the same mechanic for all characters. In ME2, after the 3rd recruitiment it was predictable.

It wasn't the same mechanic because there were only two characters that actually had anything resembling loyalty missions. And only Wrex's side mission had any real consequence to it.

The time spent on main missions in Mass Effect 2 is still equivalent - if not moreso - to Mass Effect 1.

[ADLegend21]

Mass effect 2! Reaper fleet and Joker handing you solid proof of the reapers. I can just imagine the email subject to the council.

"RE: you've got some ass kissing to do"

[santaclausemoreau]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Mass effect 2! Reaper fleet and Joker handing you solid proof of the reapers. I can just imagine the email subject to the council.
"RE: you've got some ass kissing to do"

I would love it if it was "RE: Ah yes, 'Reapers'"

Modifié par santaclausemoreau, 04 juillet 2010 - 04:41 .

[homestyle]

Ecael wrote...
It wasn't the same mechanic because there were only two characters that actually had anything resembling loyalty missions. And only Wrex's side mission had any real consequence to it.

The time spent on main missions in Mass Effect 2 is still equivalent - if not moreso - to Mass Effect 1.

wait what?

ME2 recruitment and loyalty had the same mechanic. Recuit a team member, wait for them to want to talk to you, do a lame mission, BAM, they are now loyal.

ME1 recruitment and loyalty flowed through the story as you were saving the galaxy. You just saved a planet and stumbled upon someone you could use.

ME2 was longer (when you count in recruitment and loyalty missions), so yes ME2 main missions were almost just as long as ME1 main missions, but the epic feel is gone because the rest of your time is spent helping a krogan go through puberty.

Cause seriously this is what I would say to the crew to stay epic....

"I'm about to save the galaxy. I know you need to talk to your son, get revenge, destroy your old prison, etc. but I need people that are ready to save the galaxy with me. Galaxies and species are at stake here. The lives of every organic life today and in the future depends on what we do here. If you're not ready, then get the F off my ship."

If I was complaining about some side problem that didn't matter if the galaxy was destroyed, I would have MUCH more respect and loyalty to Shepard if he said this to me.

Modifié par homestyle, 04 juillet 2010 - 04:58 .

[Ecael]

homestyle wrote...

Ecael wrote...
It wasn't the same mechanic because there were only two characters that actually had anything resembling loyalty missions. And only Wrex's side mission had any real consequence to it.

The time spent on main missions in Mass Effect 2 is still equivalent - if not moreso - to Mass Effect 1.

wait what?

ME2 recruitment and loyalty had the same mechanic. Recuit a team member, wait for them to want to talk to you, do a lame mission, BAM, they are now loyal.

And this is different from Mass Effect 1... how?

ME1 recruitment and loyalty flowed through the story as you were saving the galaxy. You just saved a planet and stumbled upon someone you could use.

Not before saving them or doing their job for them, of course. Which is the same mechanic as in Mass Effect 2.

"I'm about to save the galaxy. I know you need to talk to your son, get revenge, destroy your old prison, etc. but I need people that are ready to save the galaxy with me. Galaxies and species are at stake here. The lives of every organic life today and in the future depends on what we do here. If you're not ready, then get the F off my ship."

Shepard: I'm about to save the galaxy, chasing after Saren on a Race Against Time, and nothing wi-

Admiral Hackett: Hey, our training drones on the moon just went berserk, can you help us?

Shepard: Sure, I'll be right there.

Do you not understand the purpose of side missions?

Modifié par Ecael, 04 juillet 2010 - 05:07 .

[ADLegend21]

homestyle wrote...

Ecael wrote...
It wasn't the same mechanic because there were only two characters that actually had anything resembling loyalty missions. And only Wrex's side mission had any real consequence to it.

The time spent on main missions in Mass Effect 2 is still equivalent - if not moreso - to Mass Effect 1.

wait what?

ME2 recruitment and loyalty had the same mechanic. Recuit a team member, wait for them to want to talk to you, do a lame mission, BAM, they are now loyal.

ME1 recruitment and loyalty flowed through the story as you were saving the galaxy. You just saved a planet and stumbled upon someone you could use.

ME2 was longer (when you count in recruitment and loyalty missions), so yes ME2 main missions were almost just as long as ME1 main missions, but the epic feel is gone because the rest of your time is spent helping a krogan go through puberty.

 no, when you left the citadel you had everyone but Liara on your team in ME1. In ME2 your job and team are bigger so that means you need people to back you. in ME1 everyone you recruited had some reason to go after Saren (Garrus hated that Saren was getting away with eden Prime, Tali wanted revenge for getting attacked, Wrex....is Wrex and Liara wanted MOAR PROTHEANS) everyone else were just people you picke dup on the way (besides tali a nd garrus who had their responsibilites form their lives after shepard)  Point is, Mss effect 2's ending was better than Mass effects

[homestyle]

Ecael wrote...

homestyle wrote...

Ecael wrote...
It wasn't the same mechanic because there were only two characters that actually had anything resembling loyalty missions. And only Wrex's side mission had any real consequence to it.

The time spent on main missions in Mass Effect 2 is still equivalent - if not moreso - to Mass Effect 1.

wait what?

ME2 recruitment and loyalty had the same mechanic. Recuit a team member, wait for them to want to talk to you, do a lame mission, BAM, they are now loyal.

And this is different from Mass Effect 1... how?

ME1 recruitment and loyalty flowed through the story as you were saving the galaxy. You just saved a planet and stumbled upon someone you could use.

Not before saving them or doing their job for them, of course. Which is the same mechanic as in Mass Effect 2.

"I'm about to save the galaxy. I know you need to talk to your son, get revenge, destroy your old prison, etc. but I need people that are ready to save the galaxy with me. Galaxies and species are at stake here. The lives of every organic life today and in the future depends on what we do here. If you're not ready, then get the F off my ship."

Shepard: I'm about to save the galaxy, chasing after Saren on a Race Against Time, and nothing wi-

Admiral Hackett: Hey, our training drones on the moon just went berserk, can you help us?

Shepard: Sure, I'll be right there.

Do you not understand the purpose of side missions?

wow. so you were surprised after recruiting the 4th or 5th team member that they wanted to talk to you and that after completing that mission they were going to be loyal to you?

the side missions is just my point. I didn't do side mission in ME1 on my first playthrough because it was my first Bioware game (I didn't know how to game the system) because I played the game the way I wanted to. I was busy saving the galaxy, so I told hackett to shove it.

In ME2, your running around reuniting a father and son before any "true" missions unfold.

BTW, I know this topic is about the epicness of the ending of the game, but this thread is already past 50 posts. It makes sense for this to have evolved to what we are talking about now.

[Ecael]

homestyle wrote...

Ecael wrote...

homestyle wrote...

Ecael wrote...
It wasn't the same mechanic because there were only two characters that actually had anything resembling loyalty missions. And only Wrex's side mission had any real consequence to it.

The time spent on main missions in Mass Effect 2 is still equivalent - if not moreso - to Mass Effect 1.

wait what?

ME2 recruitment and loyalty had the same mechanic. Recuit a team member, wait for them to want to talk to you, do a lame mission, BAM, they are now loyal.

And this is different from Mass Effect 1... how?

ME1 recruitment and loyalty flowed through the story as you were saving the galaxy. You just saved a planet and stumbled upon someone you could use.

Not before saving them or doing their job for them, of course. Which is the same mechanic as in Mass Effect 2.

"I'm about to save the galaxy. I know you need to talk to your son, get revenge, destroy your old prison, etc. but I need people that are ready to save the galaxy with me. Galaxies and species are at stake here. The lives of every organic life today and in the future depends on what we do here. If you're not ready, then get the F off my ship."

Shepard: I'm about to save the galaxy, chasing after Saren on a Race Against Time, and nothing wi-

Admiral Hackett: Hey, our training drones on the moon just went berserk, can you help us?

Shepard: Sure, I'll be right there.

Do you not understand the purpose of side missions?

wow. so you were surprised after recruiting the 4th or 5th team member that they wanted to talk to you and that after completing that mission they were going to be loyal to you?

the side missions is just my point. I didn't do side mission in ME1 on my first playthrough because it was my first Bioware game (I didn't know how to game the system) because I played the game the way I wanted to. I was busy saving the galaxy, so I told hackett to shove it.

In ME2, your running around reuniting a father and son before any "true" missions unfold.

BTW, I know this topic is about the epicness of the ending of the game, but this thread is already past 50 posts. It makes sense for this to have evolved to what we are talking about now.

Let me guess, if I tell you that you have to complete Freedom's Progress and Horizon before you can help a father and son reunite, you're going to complain about how linear the game is?

Also, did you tell Admiral Hackett to shove it before you and Joker called him in for help with the attack on the Citadel? Or were you remotely surprised that after you recruited your first 4 squadmates by running into them, the 5th one you will recruit by running into them at the C-Sec elevator? Trust me, I wasn't surprised in either game, nor were you supposed to be surprised.

How is it possible that people can whine about one thing, and then contradict themselves by whining about the exact opposite?

[homestyle]

obviously, i didn't tell hackett to shove it. I mean I didn't do any side missions that were necessary for saving the galaxy. recovering some side caches didn't get my attention. calling him for help on saren was necessary for saving the galaxy.



actually, you have to send a krogan through puberty, reunite a father and son, help someone get revenge in order to save the galaxy.



In ME2, in order to complete the game the right way, you have to complete crazy side missions that shouldn't have anything to do with saving the galaxy. You have 1 conversation with them, do what they want, and BAM, they are now loyal to death.



In ME1, in order to complete the game the right way, you have meaningful conversations and relationships with your squad mates that implicitly tells you they are loyal (there's no bar chart that magically appears telling you they are loyal). There's only 1.. wrex. Throughout the game though he's the weak link that you don't really trust and it really hits home when you find out about the krogan cure. And you don't really know that he will be loyal even after finding his armor.



The epicness of the game flows better in 1.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Homestyle actually has a point. He's probably just unsure how to put it.



Anyway, ME1 had the better ending in my opinion. I felt like a true hero at the end of ME1; it was really just that epic, especially if you save the Council. ME2's ending is fine, too, but not as much.

[Ecael]

homestyle wrote...

obviously, i didn't tell hackett to shove it. I mean I didn't do any side missions that were necessary for saving the galaxy. recovering some side caches didn't get my attention. calling him for help on saren was necessary for saving the galaxy.

actually, you have to send a krogan through puberty, reunite a father and son, help someone get revenge in order to save the galaxy.

No, you don't. In fact, you can get the No One Left Behind achievement using only three loyals.

Also, you're ignoring the potential ramifications from loyalty missions like Mordin's (the genophage cure), Legion's (the heretic geth), Tali's (the geth vs. Quarian war), and Kasumi's (the Alliance classified information greybox).

In ME2, in order to complete the game the right way, you have to complete crazy side missions that shouldn't have anything to do with saving the galaxy.

On Feros, you have to clear out an entire tower in order for Lizbeth to tell you that the thing you're looking for is right at the beginning.

On Noveria, you have to obtain a garage pass from one of three people (each of which want something from you, but none will give you one for free) and fight your way to the transit station just to get to Peak 15.

Before Ilos, you're given an unlimited number of chances to do what you want even though Saren's already on Ilos.

Ilos was just one long driving maze with Vigil in the way to the Conduit. Of course, Vigil seems to stop time so he can talk to you for the next 5 minutes.

You're running out of missions to recall.

You have 1 conversation with them, do what they want, and BAM, they are now loyal to death. In ME1, in order to complete the game the right way, you have meaningful conversations and relationships with your squad mates that implicitly tells you they are loyal (there's no bar chart that magically appears telling you they are loyal). There's only 1.. wrex. Throughout the game though he's the weak link that you don't really trust and it really hits home when you find out about the krogan cure. And you don't really know that he will be loyal even after finding his armor.

You have 2 conversations with them, do what they want, and BAM, they're a love interest.

That applies to both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, yet no one seems to be remotely bothered by this as long as their favorite character gets more screen-time in the next game.

The epicness of the game flows better in 1.

Yeah, well, I think the antidisestablishmentarianess of the second game was more in-depth.

[bottledwater]

me2. because it always bothered me that when you killed terminator saren, sovereigns shields automatically went down. there is no logical or magical explanation for that. also harbingers speech at the end was awesome. not to mention at the end of ME1 you destroy 1 ship, at the end of ME2 you commit genocide against an entire species. you know, for the greater good. somehow.

[maddenking2010]

bottledwater wrote...

me2. because it always bothered me that when you killed terminator saren, sovereigns shields automatically went down. there is no logical or magical explanation for that. also harbingers speech at the end was awesome. not to mention at the end of ME1 you destroy 1 ship, at the end of ME2 you commit genocide against an entire species. you know, for the greater good. somehow.

That makes it two species I have completly destroyed now

[instantdeath999]

ME2, if only because it got me excited for ME3 more than ME1 had me excited for ME2.

Also, I hate the word epic to describe something in a video game, although I suppose in Mass Effect it's semi-accurate; epic referring to a grand, long tale.  I can't stand when people say "that explosion was epic" or whatever.  

I think I, overall, preferred ME2's darker storyline as well.

Modifié par instantdeath999, 04 juillet 2010 - 06:51 .

[Lunatic LK47]

InvaderErl wrote...

ME1 was more "epic" in terms of big fleets and such but to be honest I've seen so many massive space battles by this point the ME1 wasn't all that impressive. You can take any big space battle from Trek/BSG/Wars and they were all much more dynamic so seeing fleets comprised of people I didn't care about didn't really touch base with me in anything more than a "perdy" sort of way.

I preferred 2's Normandy vs Collectors setup.

That and "the team" actually has a presence for the endgame as opposed to just the two people you bring with you to Illos.

If Medals of Honor were available for civilians, I'd pin one for you willingly. I feel the exact same way.

[homestyle]

this one quote was so epic it will end this thread.



"that which you know as reapers are your salvation through destruction"

[Fiery Phoenix]

^ LOL!

[CroGamer002]

ME1 has more epic ending but ME2 isn't far behind.

[Oronduil]

I've always felt that the ME1 ending was more epic. Just because the danger to the galaxy seemed much more immediate: sovereign opening the conduit results in everyone being boned in 3 seconds. In ME2 they were building a reaper but it wasn't anywhere near finished. The actual danger from that reaper was months away (actual results may vary). In ME1 you had a huge space battle going on around you whereas in ME2, the only people in immediate danger was Shepard and his team. This isn't to say that I didn't love the ending to ME2

[homestyle]

Ecael wrote...

homestyle wrote...

obviously, i didn't tell hackett to shove it. I mean I didn't do any side missions that were necessary for saving the galaxy. recovering some side caches didn't get my attention. calling him for help on saren was necessary for saving the galaxy.

actually, you have to send a krogan through puberty, reunite a father and son, help someone get revenge in order to save the galaxy.

No, you don't. In fact, you can get the No One Left Behind achievement using only three loyals.

Also, you're ignoring the potential ramifications from loyalty missions like Mordin's (the genophage cure), Legion's (the heretic geth), Tali's (the geth vs. Quarian war), and Kasumi's (the Alliance classified information greybox).

In ME2, in order to complete the game the right way, you have to complete crazy side missions that shouldn't have anything to do with saving the galaxy.

On Feros, you have to clear out an entire tower in order for Lizbeth to tell you that the thing you're looking for is right at the beginning.

On Noveria, you have to obtain a garage pass from one of three people (each of which want something from you, but none will give you one for free) and fight your way to the transit station just to get to Peak 15.

Before Ilos, you're given an unlimited number of chances to do what you want even though Saren's already on Ilos.

Ilos was just one long driving maze with Vigil in the way to the Conduit. Of course, Vigil seems to stop time so he can talk to you for the next 5 minutes.

You're running out of missions to recall.

You have 1 conversation with them, do what they want, and BAM, they are now loyal to death. In ME1, in order to complete the game the right way, you have meaningful conversations and relationships with your squad mates that implicitly tells you they are loyal (there's no bar chart that magically appears telling you they are loyal). There's only 1.. wrex. Throughout the game though he's the weak link that you don't really trust and it really hits home when you find out about the krogan cure. And you don't really know that he will be loyal even after finding his armor.

You have 2 conversations with them, do what they want, and BAM, they're a love interest.

That applies to both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, yet no one seems to be remotely bothered by this as long as their favorite character gets more screen-time in the next game.

The epicness of the game flows better in 1.

Yeah, well, I think the antidisestablishmentarianess of the second game was more in-depth.

Well, that's another thing I don't like about ME2 romance. In ME2, I talk to Miranda about her daughter and then in next conversation, I'm telling her that I know she wants it too. huh? The ME1 romance with Ash was waaay more intricate. And the dialogue was way more witty and real-life like. You work for it more in ME1.

The side missions that stemmed from the main mission was fine in ME1 as long as it was along the main mission and progressed the story. I had to do these "petty tasks" after selecting the main mission from the galaxy map. Getting a garage pass (in ME1) to get to the peak 15 was fine. It flowed. I had to get to peak 15.

Helping a father hold hands with his son did not. A true former spectre, former galaxy saver, person-who-come-back-from-the-dead-and-knows-the-epic-danger Shepard would've told everyone that wanted to do a lame side loyalty mission to shove it (whether or not you are paragon or renegade. he would just say it nicely). You are either loyal to this mission or get off. We don't have time. But the game wouldn't allow you to do this if you want to stay alive.

Again, here's the bottom line. In ME2, I felt like I spent 30 hours recruiting people and helping them get revenge and then spent 4 hours saving the galaxy.

Modifié par homestyle, 04 juillet 2010 - 07:43 .

[MarshalMeLee]

Both endings had their merits to me.

Running down the side of the tower on the Citadel with Sovereign waiting in the distance was something.


You got the feeling that you were part of a major event, given the massive buildup ME1 featured for its ending:

- seeing how big the Citadel was firsthand beforehand
- exposure to the endgame Council chamber well in advance
- seeing the Destiny Ascension and the Citadel fleet in combat
- fighting an established antagonist
- talking with Sovereign previously and then seeing his power firsthand

ME2 develops drama by the potential deaths of the crew you have developed bonds with/talked to and potentially your own death. These are all the more effectual because it is based on your own decisions before and during the mission. As a result, more depends on the player.

ME1 lacked this in its ending, since you only have 3 player decisions...whether to save the Council, whether to convince Saren to commit suicide or not, and whether to pick Udina or Anderson afterwards. This is small compared to the significant number of permutations for the ME2 suicide mission. Therefore ME2 is more personally reflective and customizable, but lacks that same build-up of ME1. You knew little about the Collector base before the Suicide Mission, and in fact believe its their "Homeworld" before actually heading there. Compare this to ending ME1 and the friendly confines of battling on a besieged Citadel against an antagonist you see a lot of.

They both have their own merits, from the sweepingly grand/epic to the more involved personal approach of your strike team trying and dying to stop the Collectors. Both had my emotions going the first time I played it...I remember staying up into the wee hours of the morning to finish both games. Here's to ME3

Modifié par MarshalMeLee, 04 juillet 2010 - 07:42 .