189 réponses à ce sujet

[adam_grif]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Saren was too easily manipulated by Commander Shepard.

Fan theory: Commander Shepard has secret mind control powers.

This explains:

- Why he can learn Dominate
- Why he is able to persuade people who feel passionately about issues with three lines of dialogue.

The worst offenders are when Shepard persuades the admiraliy board with a few lines of empassioned speech, when he convinces Saren to off himself, when he is able to make an Asari chick break up with or marry her Krogan boyfriend, and when you can convince that brother/sister pair to either get the gene mods or not. Oh, and how about when he shouts that guy into submission about his wifes corpse being desecrated? Or when the Admiral comes with a suprise inspection and he basically listens to anything you say and ends up agreeing. Man, I wish military officials were that reasonable in real life. 

In all cases, Shepard just walks away before you can say "these aren't the droids you're looking for".

Modifié par adam_grif, 04 juillet 2010 - 08:52 .

[megatron999]

The purpose of the reapers is to bring order to organic life. I imagine they were created to stop wars and concluded the best way was to kill everyone, Hence no more war. Then wait and start again, it does make some sense.



They also create reapers from superior races they deem worthy. Hence the human and prothean reapers.



Also did you see at the end of ME2 the Reapers all look different or is it just me. I wonder if they do that in all Galaxies in the universe?

[didymos1120]

Lemonwizard wrote...
And alright, sure, their method of going about it isn't super friendly and I'd appreciate being given a choice and all that jazz, blah blah, but any "ends justify the means" type Shepard with a Renegade streak would be a hypocrite to fault the reapers for that.

The hypocrisy is just a means to an end.  Therefore, it's justified.  If you argue, RenShep will shoot you.  Which is also justified. Why?  Because.  And also: mass effect fields. That's why. 

[Il Divo]

I feel this is definitely a POV issue. As organics, we are meant to value our individuality because it distinguishes us from each other. We look at assimilation as distasteful and fight against it. However, assuming we do become Reapers, from that perspective we view it as a superior form of existence (as per Sovereign's speech).

Edit: Anyone who's seen the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion knows exactly what I'm talking about with this.

As a separate note, I also find the criticisms of the human reaper as "cheesy" to be odd in a game complete with generic robots, space zombies, and xenomorphs right out of Alien.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 juillet 2010 - 01:12 .

[smudboy]

Il Divo wrote...

I feel this is definitely a POV issue. As organics, we are meant to value our individuality because it distinguishes us from each other. We look at assimilation as distasteful and fight against it. However, assuming we do become Reapers, from that perspective we view it as a superior form of existence (as per Sovereign's speech).

Edit: Anyone who's seen the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion knows exactly what I'm talking about with this.

As a separate note, I also find the criticisms of the human reaper as "cheesy" to be odd in a game complete with generic robots, space zombies, and xenomorphs right out of Alien.

Err, okay.

Hideki Anno must be stopped.

Yes, but we understand those things.  We cannot even begin to fathom the ridiculousness that is the Human Reaper.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Lemonwizard, your's is not a peculiar kind of genius, but a genius kind of peculiar... even so, the tension was never about the Reapers, but about whether our hero can muster the cavalry and exactly what Shep can achieve.

An evil, will always be the same kind of all-encompassing unrepentant evil.. what we're here to see is what Shep can do...

[Christmas Ape]

We cannot even begin to fathom the ridiculousness that is the Human Reaper.

Well, that's on you, makes sense to me based on my personal speculations about the Reaper Agenda.

But by all means, let's hear why the conceptually bankrupt giant fetus was better.

[Il Divo]

smudboy wrote...

Err, okay.

Hideki Anno must be stopped.

Yes, but we understand those things.  We cannot even begin to fathom the ridiculousness that is the Human Reaper.

I'm not certain I understand your criticism here. Perhaps you could elaborate. In what ways are the Geth/Rachni better explained, but the human reaper is not? Although this is also different from 'cheese factor'. What about the Geth/Rachni/Android Saren make them less cheesy than a human Reaper?

[InvaderErl]

The Human Reaper would have gone over 1000x better if not for its physical appearance.

Story-wise, there's nothing wrong with it.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juillet 2010 - 11:30 .

[Ecael]

Il Divo wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Yes, but we understand those things.  We cannot even begin to fathom the ridiculousness that is the Human Reaper.

I'm not certain I understand your criticism here. Perhaps you could elaborate. In what ways are the Geth/Rachni better explained, but the human reaper is not? Although this is also different from 'cheese factor'. What about the Geth/Rachni/Android Saren make them less cheesy than a human Reaper?

Don't expect smudboy/Zulu to elaborate on his criticism when he labels something as ridiculous or cheesy, as he'll just dismiss everything you say. He claims he knows what good writing is, despite not having aged past the level of self-centered whining.

The Human Reaper was originally supposed to be a giant fetus husk, but we can assume that the idea wouldn't go over well in some countries outside the United States (and I'm sure some American reporters would criticize it for its commentary on the pro-choice/pro-life debate).

[smudboy]

Il Divo wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Err, okay.

Hideki Anno must be stopped.

Yes, but we understand those things.  We cannot even begin to fathom the ridiculousness that is the Human Reaper.

I'm not certain I understand your criticism here. Perhaps you could elaborate. In what ways are the Geth/Rachni better explained, but the human reaper is not? Although this is also different from 'cheese factor'. What about the Geth/Rachni/Android Saren make them less cheesy than a human Reaper?

ME1 Geth: The main opposing force.  We get Tali to elaborate on their history, and how it changed an entire species and galactic government.  Gives us insight, history and repercussions of AI research.  We get a handful of bad-AI miniquests.  One of the central themes of ME1 is man vs. machine, and slavery vs. freedom.  Our Big Bad is a super-intelligent ancient AI.
ME1 Rachni: Turns out the Rachni aren't extinct. (Peak 15, Cerberus: Binthu, Nepmos, Listening Post Alpha and Theta.)  How their history changed the galaxy, and the opinion of the Krogan.  Ties in with the genophage.  Turns out the Rachni were indoctrinated by Sovereign, our main bad guy, and the real Rachni are peaceful, singing, misunderstood creatures.
Saren: Antagonist.  He believes we cannot stop the Reapers, so becomes their servant.  Accepts indoctrination (or is too late to be stopped), and receives cybernetic augments.  May be persuaded to think otherwise and commit suicide.  Gets his dead body controlled by Sovereign, which ends in both his and Sovereign's demise.
ME2 Geth: Similar to the Rachni, turns out the ME1 Geth were only 5% of all Geth, though they still have questionable foreign policies.
ME2 Rachni: If you saved them, they say so.
ME2 Human Reaper: The ME universe is now broken beyond belief

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Yes, but we understand those things.  We cannot even begin to fathom the ridiculousness that is the Human Reaper.

I'm not certain I understand your criticism here. Perhaps you could elaborate. In what ways are the Geth/Rachni better explained, but the human reaper is not? Although this is also different from 'cheese factor'. What about the Geth/Rachni/Android Saren make them less cheesy than a human Reaper?

Don't expect smudboy/Zulu to elaborate on his criticism when he labels something as ridiculous or cheesy, as he'll just dismiss everything you say. He claims he knows what good writing is, despite not having aged past the level of self-centered whining.

The Human Reaper was originally supposed to be a giant fetus husk, but we can assume that the idea wouldn't go over well in some countries outside the United States (and I'm sure some American reporters would criticize it for its commentary on the pro-choice/pro-life debate).

Hi, I'm smudboy.  Seen my videos?  I tend to be elaborative and constructive.  When you're an ass, I treat you like one.

The word "whine" does not equal "constructive criticism".  But thanks for your amazing understanding of my dissenting opinion considering yours, when we don't see the same things.  Obviously, whenever I have a dissenting opinion, my tone changes and I'm whining.  Constantly.  I whine so much I use big words like "exposition" and "catharsis" and "stuff."

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Hi, I'm smudboy.  Seen my videos?  I tend to be elaborative and constructive.  When you're an ass, I treat you like one.

The word "whine" does not equal "constructive criticism".  But thanks for your amazing understanding of my dissenting opinion considering yours, when we don't see the same things.  Obviously, whenever I have a dissenting opinion, my tone changes and I'm whining.  Constantly.  I whine so much I use big words like "exposition" and "catharsis" and "stuff."

Since you're claiming that your whining is constructive, exactly how would BioWare or its fans stand to benefit from all that criticism of yours? Let me guess - you're just doing it for yourself, right? Not constructive.

Constructive criticism means that there is useful information or ideas to be gained from criticism. You, on the other hand, just point out everything that you think is bad, with no room for correction. You then pat yourself on the back for being the "only one" to nitpick everything there is about a game.

And "catharsis" doesn't apply here when you've been whining for months. That's not cathartic, that's compulsive.

At least try to understand the actual meaning of the "big words" you're using.

Modifié par Ecael, 05 juillet 2010 - 12:38 .

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...
Since you're claiming that your whining is constructive, exactly how would BioWare or its fans stand to benefit from all that criticism of yours? Let me guess - you're just doing it for yourself, right? Not constructive.

I'm not whining, but keep repeating yourself.  You know, the more you do it, the more real it becomes.

I do everything for myself.  I don't see how that's not constructive, or anything else for that matter.

Constructive criticism means that there is useful information or ideas to be gained from criticism. You, on the other hand, just point out everything that you think is bad, with no room for correction. You then pat yourself on the back for being the "only one" to nitpick everything there is about a game.

If one can point out a flaw, in detail, in something, then it begs the question of how that flaw can be fixed.

BioWare's good at simply removing flaws or problems completely.

There are many ways, especially in writing, to fix things.  It's called having an imagination.  I see you are very imaginative in coming up with amateur game designs to fix flaws.  There is no difference between that skill and writing.  All writers have wonderful, intelligent ideas that can fix flaws.  I do not need to brainstorm, because that is pointless: anyone can do this.  Additionally, I've no interest in imposing my view of a "fix", because that's subjective.  Anyone, after noticing a flaw, had multiple ways of thinking of how to correct that flaw.

And "catharsis" doesn't apply here when you've been whining for months. That's not cathartic, that's compulsive.

At least try to understand the actual meaning of the "big words" you're using.

No, I'm really feeling awesome whenever I write and make videos.  Like I said before, it's all me me me.

Oh I do. They're so big, I wonder if anyone else can understand my "stuff".

[Daerog]

Reapers. They sleep in dark space for thousands of years, wake up, consume/destroy all sentient life in the galaxy, then go back to sleep. Repeat.

The only glorious part of being a reaper is probably the vast knowledge and perception you can gain by being one. Then again, its not you, its a collection of organic information gathered from you and billions of others, so you still die because either you cease to be or your consciousness fuses with others to be something else and your previous self is dead. Corpse, Reaper, husk, it wouldn't matter.

Pretty much the pictures of the Borg and those things from Doctor Who sum it up.

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Since you're claiming that your whining is constructive, exactly how would BioWare or its fans stand to benefit from all that criticism of yours? Let me guess - you're just doing it for yourself, right? Not constructive.

I'm not whining, but keep repeating yourself.  You know, the more you do it, the more real it becomes.

I do everything for myself.  I don't see how that's not constructive, or anything else for that matter.

If one can point out a flaw, in detail, in something, then it begs the question of how that flaw can be fixed.

BioWare's good at simply removing flaws or problems completely.

It's not constructive when it's a waste of time for everyone else. That's the problem, you beg the question. You don't even attempt to answer it, otherwise that might require actual thinking.

There are many ways, especially in writing, to fix things.  It's called having an imagination.  I see you are very imaginative in coming up with amateur game designs to fix flaws.  There is no difference between that skill and writing.  All writers have wonderful, intelligent ideas that can fix flaws.  I do not need to brainstorm, because that is pointless: anyone can do this.

Anyone can "point out flaws" in anything. Including five-year old children who think the world revolves around them and must change to fit only their needs.

Additionally, I've no interest in imposing my view of a "fix", because that's subjective.  Anyone, after noticing a flaw, had multiple ways of thinking of how to correct that flaw.

You say that as if your criticism is objective, yet you still don't provide the same amount of analysis for the other games you've played.

No, I'm really feeling awesome whenever I write and make videos.  Like I said before, it's all me me me.

Oh I do. They're so big, I wonder if anyone else can understand my "stuff".

Yup, compulsive, not cathartic. You're sounding more and more selfish and bitter as you post.

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...
It's not constructive when it's a waste of time for everyone else. That's the problem, you beg the question. You don't even attempt to answer it, otherwise that might require actual thinking.

That doesn't even make sense.  It's not a waste of time for everyone else, since not everyone is you and your opinions.  Just because you don't agree with what I write, doesn't make it bad, or wrong.  It's just my opinion.

Why should I attempt to answer it?  What's the point?  Should I a) point out every flaw,  re-write the entire story?  That's not my job, that's BioWare's job.  Trying to re-write ME2 is a colossal undertaking, considering the number of flaws in it.  Since creating is a writing and subjective experience, that would make my objective observations have underlying subjective opinions.  This is not what I do.

Anyone can "point out flaws" in anything. Including five-year old children who think the world revolves around them and must change to fit only their needs.

Luckily I know what I'm talking about, and am not a 5 year old child.  The flaws are so bad I cannot help but point them out.

But I do love the attention.  And chocolate cake.  Please continue making analogies between my analysis and whining.  I love it.

You say that as if your criticism is objective, yet you still don't provide the same amount of analysis for the other games you've played.

1. Smudboy's criticism is objective.
2. Smudboy does not show criticism/has not done video reviews to other games he's played
3. Therefore, Smudboy's analysis is not objective.

Ecael, you are a comedian.

Yup, compulsive, not cathartic. You're sounding more and more selfish and bitter as you post.

Selfish yes.  Bitter, no.  You can't tell, but I'm really smiling from all the attention you give me.  Every post is a confirmation of what I already believe.

[SithLordExarKun]

smudboy wrote...

 Just because you don't agree with what I write, doesn't make it bad, or wrong. It's just my opinion.

  Exactly, so don't pass off your opinions as facts.

[Christmas Ape]

Oh, thank the Maker, another idiotic slapfight.

[smudboy]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

smudboy wrote...

 Just because you don't agree with what I write, doesn't make it bad, or wrong. It's just my opinion.

  Exactly, so don't pass off your opinions as facts.

I do not recall doing this.

Please keep in mind I am reacting to observations, that everyone else has, which are objective, which are facts.

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Ecael wrote...
It's not constructive when it's a waste of time for everyone else. That's the problem, you beg the question. You don't even attempt to answer it, otherwise that might require actual thinking.

That doesn't even make sense.  It's not a waste of time for everyone else, since not everyone is you and your opinions.  Just because you don't agree with what I write, doesn't make it bad, or wrong.  It's just my opinion.

Why should I attempt to answer it?  What's the point?  Should I a) point out every flaw,  re-write the entire story?  That's not my job, that's BioWare's job.  Trying to re-write ME2 is a colossal undertaking, considering the number of flaws in it.  Since creating is a writing and subjective experience, that would make my objective observations have underlying subjective opinions.  This is not what I do.

Anyone can "point out flaws" in anything. Including five-year old children who think the world revolves around them and must change to fit only their needs.

Luckily I know what I'm talking about, and am not a 5 year old child.  The flaws are so bad I cannot help but point them out.

But I do love the attention.  And chocolate cake.  Please continue making analogies between my analysis and whining.  I love it.

You say that as if your criticism is objective, yet you still don't provide the same amount of analysis for the other games you've played.

1. Smudboy's criticism is objective.
2. Smudboy does not show criticism/has not done video reviews to other games he's played
3. Therefore, Smudboy's analysis is not objective.

Ecael, you are a comedian.

Yup, compulsive, not cathartic. You're sounding more and more selfish and bitter as you post.

Selfish yes.  Bitter, no.  You can't tell, but I'm really smiling from all the attention you give me.  Every post is a confirmation of what I already believe.

I'm assuming your mood can be described in this fashion:

<_<    <_<    <_<    <_<  

You're right. That's not bitter, that's manic-depressive.

[Il Divo]

While I understand there seems to be some tension amongst posters, I shall play regardless if only as an exercise in reasoning.

smudboy wrote...

>snip<

ME2 Human Reaper: The ME universe is now broken beyond belief

I'm still not quite certain I understand your criticism. I have watched your link. But I still did not detect an argument, merely a conclusion. It definitely sounds like you did not like the human reaper. But beyond humorous remarks (which can equally be made for robo-Saren, the Geth, or the Rachni) you have not really explained what is wrong with the Reaper which the previous escape. Example: You question both the Reaper's size and shape. What precisely is wrong with the Reaper's size? Given that your typical Reaper dwarfs a standard ship, I should expect it to be massive.

Modifié par Il Divo, 05 juillet 2010 - 02:25 .

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...
I'm assuming your mood can be described in this fashion:

<_<    <_<    <_<    <_<  

You're right. That's not bitter, that's manic-depressive.

I can assure I'm in great mental standing.  After all, I have to sift through yours, and other bull**** whenever I reply.

I guess I have to communicate with pictures, since you seem to understand those best.

<_<<_<<_<<_< !=

But there are times.

[SithLordExarKun]

smudboy wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

smudboy wrote...

 Just because you don't agree with what I write, doesn't make it bad, or wrong. It's just my opinion.

  Exactly, so don't pass off your opinions as facts.

I do not recall doing this.

Please keep in mind I am reacting to observations, that everyone else has, which are objective, which are facts.

Don't confuse "Opinions" and "Facts".

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Ecael wrote...
I'm assuming your mood can be described in this fashion:

<_<    <_<    <_<    <_<  

You're right. That's not bitter, that's manic-depressive.

I can assure I'm in great mental standing.  After all, I have to sift through yours, and other bull**** whenever I reply.

I guess I have to communicate with pictures, since you seem to understand those best.

<_<<_<<_<<_< !=

But there are times.

Right, because your footnoting of posts with "Give me good writing please!" or "This part of Mass Effect 2 is ridiculous!" in every post you make is actually you laughing.

That's definitely not a good sign.

Also, you're resorting to swearing (as usual), so we can all assume you're going off into the other end again.