329 réponses à ce sujet

[Christmas Ape]

pprrff wrote...

Edit: Ok, the one that bugs me is defense in this game (how come biotic can't just wear a kinetic suit like everyone else AND summon a barrier in addition? How does a layer of armor defeat biotic throw?).

Effectively covered by the write-up for the back-up shield generator upgrade; mass effect fields in close proximity interfere with each other.

[Nightwriter]

ME2 was a great game. It had compelling characters and those characters' stories were enjoyable.

It simply had a regrettable plot to which those characters weren't properly tied.

[pprrff]

Christmas Ape wrote...

pprrff wrote...
Edit: Ok, the one that bugs me is defense in this game (how come biotic can't just wear a kinetic suit like everyone else AND summon a barrier in addition? How does a layer of armor defeat biotic throw?).

Effectively covered by the write-up for the back-up shield generator upgrade; mass effect fields in close proximity interfere with each other.

Couldn't that be advantage to be exploited, if their frequencies are close enough to see signifcant interference, then just tune the kinetic power source to interfere constructively with your own biotic field, and amplify the power output. If the two freq are far enough apart, then you won't see any interference pattern anyway, you just add up and amplitudes and still give you a boost.

And that dosen't explain the effect of armor protection from throw and pull, unless you assume that mass effect field is some how sensitive to the molecular make up of the material is comes in contact with, which raises more question than answered.

Modifié par pprrff, 12 juillet 2010 - 04:14 .

[Christmas Ape]

pprrff wrote...

Couldn't that be advantage to be exploited, if their frequencies are close enough to see signifcant interference, then just tune the kinetic power source to interfere constructively with your own biotic field, and amplify the power output. If the two freq are far enough apart, then you won't see any interference pattern anyway, you just add up and amplitudes and still give you a boost.

My understanding is basically "doesn't work that way"; the interference is a complete shut down. It's also possible that biotic mass effect fields aren't of a consistent frequency every time, and would require retuning the tech systems every single time they bring up a field.

[smudboy]

pprrff wrote...
I can understand mostly where you coming from, except for the 'massive' amount plot hole. Most everything listed on the forum can be easily explained away with 2 or 3  codex entry, and some of which doesn't even qualify as plot hole to me, and very few actually impede game flow.

Choices complicate things for the writer. Like the whole keeping or destroying base decision: people treat it like plot whole is becase ____ doesn't make sense, since we know _____. People's game play are different so they see one paticular choice as natural, while the other one is a break from character. If you played the whole game as Cerbrus apologist and then all of sudden blew up the base at the end, that can qualify as plot hole, but its entirely one of player's own making.

Edit: Ok, the one that bugs me is defense in this game (how come biotic can't just wear a kinetic suit like everyone else AND summon a barrier in addition? How does a layer of armor defeat biotic throw?).

Every main plot point has a plot hole or raises questions, essentially breaking our suspension if you try and think about the believability of those events; hence, massive.

Choices merely give players freedom to choose.  It's obviously more work for the writers, but you're trying to attribute a plot hole to the P/R system, or rather in the example of a Cerberus apologist suddenly making a non-apologist choice.  I don't see how imagined character development, via variable character choice, creates a plot hole.  I do see how that such a system is decidely flawed, since if one chooses a "paragade/renegon" path, late game choices no longer become available, even though we still want to make such choices, and no such character development has shown Shepard to be such an intensity of either attitude.  (Compare this to Alpha Protocol's Dialog Stance System, where players can choose whatever attitude available they like in almost every dialog choice.)

Mass effect fields.

[jmood88]

For a guy who hates this game you sure do post a lot.

[Soverign 666]

Its also funny how smudboy only registered mass effect 2 and not 1 if he hates 2 so much

[smudboy]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Its also funny how smudboy only registered mass effect 2 and not 1 if he hates 2 so much

1. smudboy hates Mass Effect 2.
2. smudboy hasn't registered Mass Effect.
3. Therefore, because smudboy hates Mass Effect 2 so much, it is comical.

[pprrff]

smudboy wrote...

pprrff wrote...
I can understand mostly where you coming from, except for the 'massive' amount plot hole. Most everything listed on the forum can be easily explained away with 2 or 3  codex entry, and some of which doesn't even qualify as plot hole to me, and very few actually impede game flow.

Choices complicate things for the writer. Like the whole keeping or destroying base decision: people treat it like plot whole is becase ____ doesn't make sense, since we know _____. People's game play are different so they see one paticular choice as natural, while the other one is a break from character. If you played the whole game as Cerbrus apologist and then all of sudden blew up the base at the end, that can qualify as plot hole, but its entirely one of player's own making.

Edit: Ok, the one that bugs me is defense in this game (how come biotic can't just wear a kinetic suit like everyone else AND summon a barrier in addition? How does a layer of armor defeat biotic throw?).

Every main plot point has a plot hole or raises questions, essentially breaking our suspension if you try and think about the believability of those events; hence, massive.

Choices merely give players freedom to choose.  It's obviously more work for the writers, but you're trying to attribute a plot hole to the P/R system, or rather in the example of a Cerberus apologist suddenly making a non-apologist choice.  I don't see how imagined character development, via variable character choice, creates a plot hole.  I do see how that such a system is decidely flawed, since if one chooses a "paragade/renegon" path, late game choices no longer become available, even though we still want to make such choices, and no such character development has shown Shepard to be such an intensity of either attitude.  (Compare this to Alpha Protocol's Dialog Stance System, where players can choose whatever attitude available they like in almost every dialog choice.)

Mass effect fields.

That''s where we disagree then, I found my suspension mostly intact through out the entire gameplay, only occassionaly wondering what happen to my old N-7 suit where barrier, shield and armor are all rolled into one. (oh right, Legion took it)

[jmood88]

smudboy wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

Its also funny how smudboy only registered mass effect 2 and not 1 if he hates 2 so much

1. smudboy hates Mass Effect 2.
2. smudboy hasn't registered Mass Effect.
3. Therefore, because smudboy hates Mass Effect 2 so much, it is comical.

Good job repeating what he said in list form.

[Soverign 666]

smudboy wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

Its also funny how smudboy only registered mass effect 2 and not 1 if he hates 2 so much

1. smudboy hates Mass Effect 2.
2. smudboy hasn't registered Mass Effect.
3. Therefore, because smudboy hates Mass Effect 2 so much, it is comical.

Even you have to admit it is a little ironic

[smudboy]

jmood88 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

Its also funny how smudboy only registered mass effect 2 and not 1 if he hates 2 so much

1. smudboy hates Mass Effect 2.
2. smudboy hasn't registered Mass Effect.
3. Therefore, because smudboy hates Mass Effect 2 so much, it is comical.

Good job repeating what he said in list form.

I, too, find logic comical.

[ADLegend21]

wow this thread is going nowhere anymore.

[Soverign 666]

This thread is an example of every thread where people try and discuss the game smudboy comes starts complaing people start getting pissed at smud it turns into an argument about the people and not the game

[smudboy]

pprrff wrote...
That''s where we disagree then, I found my suspension mostly intact through out the entire gameplay, only occassionaly wondering what happen to my old N-7 suit where barrier, shield and armor are all rolled into one. (oh right, Legion took it)

Hey more power to you.  If you can enjoy it, I think that's great.

[ADLegend21]

Soverign 666 wrote...

This thread is an example of every thread where people try and discuss the game smudboy comes starts complaing people start getting pissed at smud it turns into an argument about the people and not the game

Pretty much. He nitpicks, people complain about his nitpicks, then he goson personal arguements. same old song and dance.

[Zulu_DFA]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

This thread is an example of every thread where people try and discuss the game smudboy comes starts complaing people start getting pissed at smud it turns into an argument about the people and not the game

Pretty much. He nitpicks, people complain about his nitpicks, then he goson personal arguements. same old song and dance.

You are discussing people and not the game, people.

[smudboy]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

This thread is an example of every thread where people try and discuss the game smudboy comes starts complaing people start getting pissed at smud it turns into an argument about the people and not the game

Pretty much. He nitpicks, people complain about his nitpicks, then he goson personal arguements. same old song and dance.

Please show me an example where I go on a personal argument that the other did not instigate first.  I am constantly asking for argument and evidence to support peoples opinions, but they continue on their merry way of insulting or saying I'm "whining" or "complaining."

I have no problems arguing on any level, using whatever tactic, so long as someone is learning something.

[ADLegend21]

smudboy wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

This thread is an example of every thread where people try and discuss the game smudboy comes starts complaing people start getting pissed at smud it turns into an argument about the people and not the game

Pretty much. He nitpicks, people complain about his nitpicks, then he goson personal arguements. same old song and dance.

Please show me an example where I go on a personal argument that the other did not instigate first.  I am constantly asking for argument and evidence to support peoples opinions, but they continue on their merry way of insulting or saying I'm "whining" or "complaining."

I have no problems arguing on any level, using whatever tactic, so long as someone is learning something.

http://social.biowar...8359/10#3074541
^THIS.

[smudboy]

ADLegend21 wrote...

http://social.biowar...8359/10#3074541
^THIS.

That's exactly what I'm saying.  Dude makes a personal attack, and I encourage him to have an argument or make a point.

[Soverign 666]

smudboy wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

This thread is an example of every thread where people try and discuss the game smudboy comes starts complaing people start getting pissed at smud it turns into an argument about the people and not the game

Pretty much. He nitpicks, people complain about his nitpicks, then he goson personal arguements. same old song and dance.

Please show me an example where I go on a personal argument that the other did not instigate first.  I am constantly asking for argument and evidence to support peoples opinions, but they continue on their merry way of insulting or saying I'm "whining" or "complaining."

I have no problems arguing on any level, using whatever tactic, so long as someone is learning something.

I never said that you started the personal argument im just saying thats what they detoriate into I didn't blame anyone in my post

[FourSixEight]

 

[didymos1120]

Apologies to FourSixEight:

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Once the "no more survivors" situation was confirmed, he, as the commander, had to stop risking his personnel and pull out.

Why?  The ultimate objective was "Stop the Collectors."  It always had been.  Shep had an opportunity to do that, and make it permanent.  That opportunity was taken. 

There is only one possible explanation behind Shepard's continuing to the Human-Reaper after that point.

You're right about there being one explanation.  EDI provided it during the briefing:  You had to go there to overload the base's power system.  The Reaper Larva was in the room you were already going to anyway. 

So the mission was [*ding!*] to spare the Base and hand it over to Cerberus for further study, just like TIM demanded of Shepard to do closer to the end.

Once again: Shep was in command.  TIM even said so, repeatedly (though he may have regretted doing that in the paragon ending).  If Shep says "Destroy it" then that's the mission objective.  Period.

And don't tell me there were no H-bombs on the Normandy. First, there were: Jack's "loyalty".

I don't recall anyone ever saying that was a fusion weapon.  In any case, I've never liked the end of that mission, as I thought the ginormous explosion was rather silly and excessive.  Where was this super-bomb the whole time they were in the facility anyway?  Did they tour Jack's room, run back to the shuttle, haul the bomb back to Jack's room (where she insisted on planting it), arm it, then go all the way back to the shuttle?  Or did Jack just have it tucked down her coveralls? And isn't it ironic that Jack, who handily wins the "Most Exposed Flesh" award in ME2, has coveralls as her default outfit?  Don't ya think?

In fact, now that I think about it, how do you even know the charge they used was responsible for all that? Could have been that most of that was due to secondary explosions.  There was plenty of equipment still being powered there,  including something generating a field that screwed up EDI's sensor readings.  Had to be some kind of reactor, unless you think everything was just running on batteries.  And who knows what else was tucked away in storage rooms or whatever?  I certainly don't.

Point being, if there's truly a problem, why isn't it with Jack's loyalty mission, for which there is far less expository dialogue, rather than with the Suicide Mission? 

Secondly, it would be just another huge plot hole, if Shepard not only knew how to operate/overload the Reaper-built reactor, but also was resorting to it as the primary option of destroying the Base (instead of using good old nukes).

 

Shep didn't need to know.  EDI figured it out (remember, she's real smart and she's partly made of Reaper).    See?

http://www.youtube.c...p7sJ8Yhs#t=4m52

Shep just had to set a timer on a piece of utterly familiar technology and open a panel.  Oh, and then close that
panel.  Mustn't forget that exceedingly difficult step. 

Oh, BTW, why no complaint that TIM was able to figure out that timed radiation pulse scheme, despite not even being there?

http://www.youtube.c...gnKWdoys#t=4m14

Maybe it's because you're biased against the "destroy the base" option?

Destroying the Base was thus a purely emotional decision,

Guess so. Or did you just not bother to even watch the cutscenes during the Sucide Mission?

that could only be taken by Shepard after he saw the Human-Reaper construction process. It could not have been "the mission".

Well, apparently you did not watch the cutscenes.  Even after I went to so much effort to search Youtube and link to the one that directly answered your "When did that become the mission?" question.  I even linked directly to the most relevant timestamps.  That was entire seconds of work! Alas, all wasted.  I tell ya, no appreciation. 

Point stands: the "suicide mission" is very poorly written.

I'm wondering how you know this, since it seems you didn't really pay much attention to the events that occurred during said mission.

Modifié par didymos1120, 13 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[JockBuster]

The major problem is:

Mass Effect (1) was the first part of a trilogy (a story in 3 parts).

Mass Effect 2 is a "stand a lone" game [quoting BW], which does not seem to be the 2nd installment except that Shepard (Tali, Garrus etc) carried over from the first game. If you play it without importing then ALL the NPCs from ME are absent, the Geth don't make sense, Cerberus are the good guys (excuse me but we KILLED them where ever we found them in ME because they were the BAD guys!)

That is why the story seems to wander off into space, with so many inconsistencies, plot holes, and pot holes.

[RiouHotaru]

I do love how apparently wanting to destroy the base is viewed as a "solely emotional decision with no regards to the mission." but keeping the base is considered the pragmatic and logical decision to make, despite who we're handing it too.