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[Massadonious1]

BlackyBlack wrote...

Remember kids, if you say it it's not nitpicking and is always the right choice, if someone disagrees he's a troll and knows nothing

smudboy no like plotholes. smudboy smash all dissenters!

Modifié par Massadonious1, 06 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

However like said previously, you "should" not get an explanation to the Wilson situation. His secret should be with him to his death.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ksandor wrote...

But I wish ME2 focused on the story as much as ME1. Major plot holes exist. How Shepard's body was found and recovered exactly? Not even ME comic gives details.

This should be explained somewhere, as it is this is a plot element that is lacking

How Mordin found the seeker bug?

It was apparently more of a robot it seems, we do not know the exact circumstances other than he was given data and materials to analyze, this could have been among them.

Who attacked the Cerberus base? Who Wilson was working for? (forgetting such details is unbecoming to you Bioware).

We don't know who attacked the Cerberus base and it isn't Shepard's problem its Cerberus's.  Also Wilson is dead and so are his children

What is the exact reason for a human reaper?

Its how they reproduce, probably made ceromonially.

If reapers convert selected species to new reapers why all the reapers are squid like and not the converted versions of various species?

Those are the shells/ships.  You can see the shell silhoutte on the Citadel and within the Collector base

Who was Miranda's father?

Not Shepard's problem

Why we don't know the exact reason of Omega district plague?

Mordin talks about some reasons, unfortunately the Vorcha are dead and the Collector's ain't talking

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 06 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[Sesshomaru47]

Taranatar9 wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

The planet where Jacobs father is a plot hole. They have modern mechs and thermal clips despite having been marooned there for 10 years...

Being new to the audience doesn't necessarily mean something is new within the fictional setting.

None of the dialogue says when mechs were first created.  The codex might, but the codexes (codices?) in both games are riddled with mistakes, so it's best not to take them too seriously.

Mechs aside, I'm pretty sure it says when the clips were intoduced and it was well after they got stuck on creepy island. BioWare are just lazy.

[InvaderErl]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...


Mechs aside, I'm pretty sure it says when the clips were intoduced and it was well after they got stuck on creepy island. BioWare are just lazy.

Ya know, speaking as an avid reader of comics and watcher of sci fi television shows if the biggest straight out retcon we ever have to deal with is those little ammo clips, count yourself lucky. Seriously.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 juillet 2010 - 09:06 .

[Massadonious1]

Clearly the best solution is to remove ammo completely from that level.



Surely no one will complain then.

[Clover Rider]

InvaderErl wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...


Mechs aside, I'm pretty sure it says when the clips were intoduced and it was well after they got stuck on creepy island. BioWare are just lazy.

Ya know, speaking as an avid reader of comics and watcher of sci fi television shows if the biggest straight out retcon we ever have to deal with is those little ammo clips, count yourself luck. Seriously.

I am with you on this the retcons I have seen man <_<.

[Nightwriter]

Ah yes, "Other Shepards."

[didymos1120]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...
Mechs aside, I'm pretty sure it says when the clips were intoduced and it was well after they got stuck on creepy island. BioWare are just lazy.

Yeah, it does say in the codex: the clips came from examining and testing geth weapons.  Since the geth hadn't been out of the veil until Eden Prime, it's rather unlikely that anyone had gotten a hold of geth weapons earlier than two years ago.  This is why Shep automatically knowing about them pulls so many people up short.

What I wish they'd done in the Lazarus station sequence is, instead of having the line "This weapon doesn't have a thermal clip", have Shepard attempt to activate the pistol and fire a test shot.  It's the sort of thing you'd expect a soldier to do: make sure your weapon works, and in fact that's exactly what Shep was doing. Then Shep could have griped that the gun was trash and wouldn't fire, at which point Miranda could have briefly explained the new system.  Something along the lines of:

"Oh, crap.  That's right, you don't know about that.  OK, most guns now have disposable heat sinks.  Thermal clips.  You need to find one.  Look for little red cylinders.  There's a little port on the back.  They go in there. The pistol has a slide: that ejects it.  All right: that's it.  Crash course over Shepard.  Now move."

In actuality, I think that line was Bioware sort of winking at we players:  "Yeah, yeah: we know. It's all different. Just roll with it people."  Instead, we got approximately eleventy-billion people crying out "ZOMG!  IT'S A PLOTHOLE.  OR A RETCON.  ONE OF THOSE. WE HATES IT!"

[Ksandor]

I was talking about the plot quality at my last post. They are dumbing the plot down. ME1 plot was classic but better.

Modifié par Ksandor, 06 juillet 2010 - 11:23 .

[InvaderErl]

And once again I ask how did Tali have a voice recording of Saren talking about what a great success the attack on Eden Prime several days before it had even happened.

Why didn't Saren just drop a colossus right in the center of Zhu's Hope instead of funneling a limited number of troops through an obvious kill zone? He had air control, there was nothing stopping him.

How did Liara excavate the entire Therum dig site by herself?

Why was Saren breeding an army of Krogan? They were completely unnecessary to his plan and ended up just drawing attention his way.

If he knew Shepard was on his trail why did he leave the Beacon on Virmire intact, he already had its info what was he doing with it?

Mass Effect 1 has more than its fair share of plot holes is what I'm saying, this is just off the top of my head.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 juillet 2010 - 11:25 .

[Nightwriter]

InvaderErl wrote...

And once again I ask how did Tali have a voice recording of Saren talking about what a great success the attack on Eden Prime several days before it had even happened.

Do we know how long it took for the Normandy to get from Eden Prime to the Citadel?

Or when Tali actually ambushed the geth that she took this recording from?

I admit I'm a little shaky on the timeline.

InvaderErl wrote...

Why didn't Saren just drop a colossus right in the center of Zhu's Hope instead of funneling a limited number of troops through an obvious kill zone? He had air control, there was nothing stopping him.

Hmm. I got the impression Saren was trying to negotiate with the Thorian. Maybe dropping in right on top of its nest and killing its thralls was bad business?

[Nightwriter]

Ah! You keep adding questions!

InvaderErl wrote...

How did Liara excavate the entire Therum dig site by herself?

I got the impression she was actually investigating that dig site by herself?

Which doesn't explain the extent of the excavation setup, but still.

InvaderErl wrote...

Why was Saren breeding an army of Krogan? They were completely
unnecessary to his plan and ended up just drawing attention his way.

More power?

InvaderErl wrote...

If
he knew Shepard was on his trail why did he leave the Beacon on Virmire
intact, he already had its info what was he doing with it?

Maybe he didn't know Shepard was ever going to find out about his operations on Virmire?

And the beacon is a valuable Prothean artifact, I'm not sure he'd want to destroy it. Sovereign could've been using it or studying it to try and figure out what the Ilos Protheans did.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 06 juillet 2010 - 11:30 .

[smudboy]

Nightwriter wrote...
Do we know how long it took for the Normandy to get from Eden Prime to the Citadel?

Or when Tali actually ambushed the geth that she took this recording from?

I admit I'm a little shaky on the timeline.

15 hours (the amount of time Shepard was knocked out by the beacon.)

-Saren to actually have the recording with Benezia, considering we just
saw a 3rd person omniscient view of him flipping out over someone using
the beacon, but now he considers Eden Prime a success?
-Which (relatively) does not give Tali sufficient time to somehow acquire the data elsewhere, get to the Citadel, and then get into her hiding situation

At first I thought this occurred before the events on Eden Prime.  If Shepard was out for 2 days, or there was an explanation of times and events, then it would be clear.

[InvaderErl]

Nightwriter wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

And once again I ask how did Tali have a voice recording of Saren talking about what a great success the attack on Eden Prime several days before it had even happened.

Do we know how long it took for the Normandy to get from Eden Prime to the Citadel?

Or when Tali actually ambushed the geth that she took this recording from?

I admit I'm a little shaky on the timeline.

We know that the Normandy arrived almost immediately after Shepard woke up since we see the relay jump to the docking sequence in real time, he couldn't have been out for more than a couple of hours, a day at the outset.

Tali arrives several days before Shepard meaning that you need to ADD more time on top of that for her to run into a Geth patrol and then come to the Citadel, get patched up at the doctors and then arrange a meeting with the SB via Fist.

Nightwriter wrote...

Hmm. I got the impression Saren was trying to negotiate with the Thorian. Maybe dropping in right on top of its nest and killing its thralls was bad business?

He was trying to kill it at that point to cover up his tracks (which was dumb because it drew attention to him), he had already made a exchange with it for the Cipher and then afterwards turned on the Thorian.

Initially I had considered the gunfire from the towers keeping his air support at bay but there's a Geth ship dropping troops in up the stairs. It just seems that if he really wanted to force his way in there he could have just hovered a dropship and landed some armateurs  (spelling?) on top of them.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 juillet 2010 - 11:36 .

[Nightwriter]

In that case I have the perfect explanation: Saren's indoctrination is finally starting to screw with his competency and he's going nuts.

See? Psha! Simple!

[InvaderErl]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ah! You keep adding questions!

I'm out of control!

Nightwriter wrote...

I got the impression she was actually investigating that dig site by herself?

Which doesn't explain the extent of the excavation setup, but still.

Its not a big deal at all, its not something that nags at me - I consider it on par in terms of revelance to worrying about thermal clips being in Jacob's mission: not very much at all.

Nightwriter wrote...

More power?

UNLIMITED.... POWAH!

It just felt sort of redundant, he only needed to storm the Citadel, he had Geth backing him up already. In the position that he was he needed to keep his operations low-key and he does very much the opposite the whole way through.

I mean by that token why was he organizing some kind of major assault out from the Armstrong Nebula?

Nightwriter wrote...

Maybe he didn't know Shepard was ever going to find out about his operations on Virmire?

And the beacon is a valuable Prothean artifact, I'm not sure he'd want to destroy it. Sovereign could've been using it or studying it to try and figure out what the Ilos Protheans did.

He's obviously had said beacon for quite some time by that point, I just think that knowing that Shepard is on his trail if he had just taken the simplest of precautions (a underling knowing the password to his office certainly doesn't help) like destroying the beacon he would have achieved complete and total victory.

Shepard's victory in ME1 relies on Saren being utterly stupid the whole way through. If he hadn't attacked the Thorian, Shepard would have lost, if he hadn't grown a Krogan army Shepard would have lost, if he had at least rigged his beacon to explode using the simplest of security protocols Shepard would have lost.

[InvaderErl]

Nightwriter wrote...

In that case I have the perfect explanation: Saren's indoctrination is finally starting to screw with his competency and he's going nuts.

See? Psha! Simple!

That's what Sovereign gets for not buying the extended service warranty on his henchmen.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 06 juillet 2010 - 11:46 .

[Ksandor]

InvaderErl wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Ah! You keep adding questions!

I'm out of control!

Nightwriter wrote...

I got the impression she was actually investigating that dig site by herself?

Which doesn't explain the extent of the excavation setup, but still.

Its not a big deal at all, its not something that nags at me - I consider it on par in terms of revelance to worrying about thermal clips being in Jacob's mission: not very much at all.

Nightwriter wrote...

More power?

UNLIMITED.... POWAH!

It just felt sort of redundant, he only needed to storm the Citadel, he had Geth backing him up already. In the position that he was he needed to keep his operations low-key and he does very much the opposite the whole way through.

I mean by that token why was he organizing some kind of major assault out from the Armstrong Nebula?

Nightwriter wrote...

Maybe he didn't know Shepard was ever going to find out about his operations on Virmire?

And the beacon is a valuable Prothean artifact, I'm not sure he'd want to destroy it. Sovereign could've been using it or studying it to try and figure out what the Ilos Protheans did.

He's obviously had said beacon for quite some time by that point, I just think that knowing that Shepard is on his trail if he had just taken the simplest of precautions (a underling knowing the password to his office certainly doesn't help) like destroying the beacon he would have achieved complete and total victory.

Shepard's victory in ME1 relies on Saren being utterly stupid the whole way through. If he hadn't attacked the Thorian, Shepard would have lost, if he hadn't grown a Krogan army Shepard would have lost, if he had at least rigged his beacon to explode using the simplest of security protocols Shepard would have lost.

I do not want to play the devil's advocate but there are 2 points about the beacons.

Eden prime beacon. Saren tried to destroy the beacon along with the colony using multiple nukes for redundancy but Shepard disabled the warheads. This is why he did not rig the beacon to explode, and the beacon exploded and we nearly lost Shepard.

Virmiere Beacon. Saren returned Virmiere after Shepard inflitrated the base. He could not know Shepard and Salarians' counter attack. Maybe he needed the beacon intact to study it further, maybe even to learn something on how to counter indoctrination or to obtain more power using Prothean lore.

Modifié par Ksandor, 06 juillet 2010 - 01:44 .

[didymos1120]

InvaderErl wrote...

And once again I ask how did Tali have a voice recording of Saren talking about what a great success the attack on Eden Prime several days before it had even happened.

I'm convinced that was just an oversight after they did some script revision to the early part of the game to up the pacing.  In fact, it may have happened late enough that they just didn't have time to re-record or even properly check the continuity.  One reason I think this is that you can run into two different characters on the Citadel, both of whom switch VAs for a single line, then revert back to the normal voice (Chellick and Chorban).  Clearly, some last minute adjustments were happening to some stuff on the Citadel, and they couldn't get those VAs back in the time they had left.

Why didn't Saren just drop a colossus right in the center of Zhu's Hope instead of funneling a limited number of troops through an obvious kill zone? He had air control, there was nothing stopping him.

Except his non-inifinite supply of Colossi and geth in general.  The dude had operations going on all over the place, and it's not hard to imagine that he simply thought they'd be better used elsewhere.  Guarding his vacation home on Virmire, for instance. Or the field base the geth had established in ExoGeni headquarters on Feros. Or held in reserve for the big game at the Citadel (of course, those dudes got left behind at the last minute to try and stop Shep and Co.). They're almost certainly harder to replace than a few lowly trooper platforms. 

He also attacked Feros without a whole lot of time to properly plan. It was closer to some exec frantically trying to shred documents before the warrant for the company's financial records gets executed than it was to a well-planned military operation. 

Also: 

Why would a Colossus equate to instant victory anyway?  The colonists had all sorts of cover available, and that big old thing can't really negotiate narrow doorways and staircases (not without methodically blasting out walls, which just makes it vulnerable while doing so and also liable to cut itself off and/or get itself crushed if it takes out to many load bearing elements) Yeah, it'd definitely nail a few, or even a whole lot, but the rest could just whittle it down in relative safety from all sorts of angles.

Hell, for all we know, that was the geth's first move, and a big pile of colonists did indeed eat flaming death, but then Colossus also ate it shortly thereafter.  I mean, we do know that their pre-geth population was much, much larger.  We also know they've trashed a bunch of geth since the attack started.  But, we don't see the bodies from either group.  I.e., they've cleaned up, and we have no way of knowing what was or was not in the geth pile. And yes, the bodies we players create fade, but they also don't fade when the devs create them to be part of the permanent scenery, which they did quite a bit.

How did Liara excavate the entire Therum dig site by herself?

Why would you even think she did in the first place?  Because of a label on the galaxy map?  The whole planet was just one big, multi-company mining operation.  Whoever ran that particular mine, they're obviously the ones who discovered the ruins and did all the digging. Liara just went there to look at that which had been dug up.  At most, after arriving she may have advised them about what/where to dig, but nothing suggests she was officially in charge. And, that isn't even the only ruin there.  Mining companies had already found a bunch of other sites in the past, per the planet description.

Why was Saren breeding an army of Krogan? They were completely unnecessary to his plan and ended up just drawing attention his way.

No they didn't. We have no idea what attracted the STG's notice, but it wasn't krogan.  They had no clue about them until they tried infiltrating the base (and got reamed in the process).  Also, keep in mind: we don't know the original plan.  The immediate fallout from Eden Prime and then Shep both forced Saren's hand.  Whatever it was, though, it clearly involved krogan. 

Sure, it turned out Saren could indeed have done without, since he obviously almost succeeded, but that doesn't mean he knew that.  There are plenty of examples in military history of things/places/people being considered crucial to victory that ultimately weren't.  Or even turning out to be a liability that gets you defeated.

If he knew Shepard was on his trail why did he leave the Beacon on Virmire intact, he already had its info what was he doing with it?

The beacons were general purpose data storage/comm devices.  The message about Ilos was just that: a message.  Who knows what other useful stuff might have been on there.  That's exactly why everyone was so stoked about the one found on Eden Prime. 

Also, he obviously thought he'd contained things by keeping the STG team from reporting in and capturing a bunch of them.  He's not ominiscient, so what reason is there for assuming that he knew the STG transmission was only 99% blocked, the attempt to transmit was noticed, and that Shep was informed of the facility's existence? 

But really, who cares?  Do you believe Saren capable of misjudgement?  If yes, that's all the explanation that's required: he misjudged how secure the base was, and that influenced his decision to keep the beacon. It was locked away all nice and safe in that super secret, super tough base, wasn't it?  Plenty of time to get rid of it later, if it even comes to that....

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

Ksandor wrote...
What is the exact reason for a human reaper?

If reapers convert selected species to new reapers why all the reapers are squid like and not the converted versions of various species?

Who was Miranda's father?

Why we don't know the exact reason of Omega district plague?

1. EDI speculates the human reaper is the most recent in a long lineage of reapers. However, this is unconfirmed. But going by the general way the Mass Effect universe has worked out so far, EDI will be at least partially right, and somehow will have guessed something that she had no data on.
2. It's speculated there is a cephalopod-shaped shell around the "core" of a Reaper, where "core" = the species it was based on, not the Mass Effect drive core. But, this is just theory, and we expect it to be explained later. Not a plothole... yet.
3. How is this a plothole? It's just something that was never fully revealed. It's not like Star Wars ever gave the reason Han Solo owed Jabba money (at least, not in the movies, and I never read the abundance of books set around that era).
4. We do. The Collectors gave it to the Vorcha to put it into the vents. You apparently decided to skip through that little dialogue, didn't you?

Now, while I support the integration of a solid storyline again, there's a difference between plot holes, and unexplained circumstances and characters. Miranda's father is irrelevant to the plot of the whole game, and is not a plothole itself, and that never really bothered me. 

[homestyle]

shepard never uses the restroom.



is he really a geth in disguise?

[Highdragonslayer]

Smudboy wouldn't be able to survive the zerg swarm

[Zulu_DFA]

smudboy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Do we know how long it took for the Normandy to get from Eden Prime to the Citadel?

Or when Tali actually ambushed the geth that she took this recording from?

I admit I'm a little shaky on the timeline.

15 hours (the amount of time Shepard was knocked out by the beacon.)

Actually, the absence of a strict time frame in ME1 made it easy to assume that a week or more passed between Shepard's coming to his senses in the Normandy infirmary, and his first meeting Udina.

This was screwed up in ME2 where the "urgency triggers" made more time paradoxes than solved. This has been recently discussed in  the "Redcliffe" thread.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 juillet 2010 - 03:58 .