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[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

I didn't want to go dig up some threads and necro them, but I am curious on what everyone thinks of this. The only origin you can grant them freedom is the "mage" origin, but if you could on all origins would you?

It is really hard for me to grant them freedom not because I'm pro Chantry. I think the Chantry is too powerful; governing mages, personal army that they control via lyrium, they control the lyrium market pretty much, the tranquility situation, etc. Mages though are feared ignorantly by some which could create conflicts, and then Conner's situation with the Desire Demon without the Templars forcing young children to go to the tower that would only happen more often, or maybe since mages are allowed more freedom they could be hired as tutors and it would still happen very rarely. Would gain more knowledge on Blood Magic more counter measurements like the litanny if mages had some wiggle room to research it without going to the Tevintar Imperium, or being labeled a malificarum. A lot of positives with a good upside, but also has just as much depth for failure, and could set mages being accepted back even furthur. Though the epilogue doesn't state anything bad happening from freeing them, and I am aware of this just thinking outside the lines, and more from an RP prespective. On my mage playthrough it was a tougher choice than I thought it should of been maybe I was over thinking it, but it would be hard for my Human Noble or City Elf to free them especially with my two most important encounters with magic being Conner's situation and the whole thing with Uldred.

Just curious on what others think of the Circle and it's relationship to the DA world. I'm eager to hear everyone's thoughts!

[Zjarcal]

No one should be restricted freedom just because they are different. That's all the reasoning I would need to decide that mages should be free, regardless of the risks involved.



Anyone has the potential to be dangerous, not only mages. Besides, I hate Templars (Gregoir in paritcular).

[Cypher0020]

hmmm...I think they should govern themselves....but possibly have the Templars/Chantry step in in case of a real problem...



IE- Abominations running amuck or apostate blood mages like that moron Jowan

[Herr Uhl]

Letting them govern themselves, while still keeping magi separate from the main population to begin with. Have the chantry tone down the mage disapproving gospel and wait for the opinion of the people to change.



Keep a platoon of templars handy nearby the mage's residences as a safety precaution. Templars are still needed.

[Giggles_Manically]

Nuke them from orbit... only way to be sure.

[Zjarcal]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Nuke them from orbit... only way to be sure.

Bah, they could simply cast force field on the tower and be safe.

[Demx]

Wasn't the Qunari's solution to cut the mage's tongue out?

[BelSirk]

Make tranquil to any with too much desire of power, to those whcih remains use cocowash for them understand: The mage isn't for evil but serve (Of course, cocowash wiouth blood mage, only words, we don't want to make weak mind mages), those who still think they are powerful: cut toungues, put lash on them.



We must be practical, creatures who can become abominations on a higher rate than anything more ,AREN'T EQUAL To any other, if you can't put a rod control , they must get under control...



mmm... maybe turning them to golems could be better...

[Suron]

BelSirk wrote...

Make tranquil to any with too much desire of power, to those whcih remains use cocowash for them understand: The mage isn't for evil but serve (Of course, cocowash wiouth blood mage, only words, we don't want to make weak mind mages), those who still think they are powerful: cut toungues, put lash on them.

We must be practical, creatures who can become abominations on a higher rate than anything more ,AREN'T EQUAL To any other, if you can't put a rod control , they must get under control...

mmm... maybe turning them to golems could be better...

sorry but, english isn't your first language is it?  god that made my head hurt to read....

far as mages go..they should be given more freedom's but still watched..we can't have another Tevinter Emperium whether the stories of the darkspawn origin are true or not.

[Tellervo]

Just letting mages go is a bad idea for their own safety. Attitudes have to change before they're given real freedom, otherwise they'll crawl back into the Tower for fear of the real world or go nova under threat. Loosening the reins, however, is the only way for attitudes to start changing.

[Arrtis]

If you consider what amgi are capable of and what the rest of thedas is capable of i agree with the chantry.As bad as it is to restrict freedom magi really do not have it that bad.If you complete your harrowing unless you become a blood mage your free to roam around if you can run fast enough.You can have a family.You have a job.I doubt very much the templars or magi would let a mage in the circle starve unless the situation warranted it.Face it the last thing you want is another ULdred without any templars or greywardens coming around.If the pride demon succeeded we would have a huge war with abominations and the chantry.Obviously abomination can transform anyone given time.So they can increase their numbers and strength as much as they want.Alone and governed alone they risk something rivaling a blight.I think only the most powerful demons seem to be able to be in human form.So I imagine they could find some system of sending people to thier doom in the tower so they can gain more recruits.

Well the last thing thedas needs is a abomination city/country to worry about.

[Carmen_Willow]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Letting them govern themselves, while still keeping magi separate from the main population to begin with. Have the chantry tone down the mage disapproving gospel and wait for the opinion of the people to change.

Keep a platoon of templars handy nearby the mage's residences as a safety precaution. Templars are still needed.

As sort of Mage Alienage?  Or magical Warsaw ghetto?  I say, free the mages! The Templars can still hunt them down if they become evildoers.

[Carmen_Willow]

SPOILER ALERT!!!

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One of the things that hacked me off about Awakenings is that after killing those Templars, I don't get my phylactery!!! All of that bloodshed for nothing.

[Asdara]

Free running mages are a bad idea. I mean, really, think of all the times you encounter blood magic on some level through the story outside the tower. It's in every branch of Ferelden pretty much. Here a bloodmage there a bloodmage everywhere a bloodmage - and then the Tower went boom and the Templars got run over and had to hide like scared little girls.



Even AS a mage, it is pretty obvious that unsupervised mages are a very bad idea. That said, supervision doesn't have to translate into an iron fist. That thing at the tower only happened because mages were so oppressed that they naturally resorted to complete secrecy about all their doings and that allowed an infiltrator to bring blood magic and other things in under the radar until they were too far gone to stop.



I would say a more open, less negatively punishing, relationship between the Templars and the Mages could be fostered to allow supervision without oppression. That would take an extraordinary effort in re-education on both sides of the fence though, and Ferelden seems more about unilateral sudden changes than gradual shifting over time in general.

[Gnoster]

Seems to me a mage can be turned into an abominations without a bloodmage, so in my view those two are completely different things.

As I see it the danger of mages turning into abominations is something all mages live with due to their "kinship" (for lack of a better word) with the Fade. Their power draws evil spirits.

Blood Mages are mages who seek magical power with any means necessary.

Whether or not one should let them all run free or maybe just tranquill all mages is tough to say. Currently I am running a powerhungry mage, who hides her use of blood magic from the others, so I say let us go free ...ofcourse the human noble warrior, who firmly believes in the Chantry, which I am starting next playthrough, he might say otherwise :-)

Modifié par Gnoster, 06 juillet 2010 - 05:24 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

If you look at what happened to Connor, you would easily understand why the Templars are necessary. I mean just look at Uldred Wynne even says he was a power-hungry person. The mages didn't even show initiative in governing themselves because of how easily Uldred gained power. Should that translate into an iron fist rule? Maybe not, but the Templars are necessary. Ungoverned mages are a huge threat to anyone--not just Ferelden. I also don't see why they hate the Circle so much when they have it better than other countries like the Kunari land.

[Patriciachr34]

Yes, but Connor snuck into Jowan's room and read his books while Jowan was being tortured. He was not skilled or trained and ended up possesed. Maybe a compromise in order. Mages need to be trained and sanctioned. So off to the tower until they complete the harrowing or are made tranquil. At that point, they can leave the tower to seek employment. However, they would need to come in for periodic review. Should they fail to show, then they could be hunted down as apostates. The tower could also be a haven for those mages who prefer a more scholarly existence. This would definitely be a good start for implementing freedoms for mages.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

If you look at what happened to Connor, you would easily understand why the Templars are necessary. I mean just look at Uldred Wynne even says he was a power-hungry person. The mages didn't even show initiative in governing themselves because of how easily Uldred gained power. Should that translate into an iron fist rule? Maybe not, but the Templars are necessary. Ungoverned mages are a huge threat to anyone--not just Ferelden. I also don't see why they hate the Circle so much when they have it better than other countries like the Kunari land.

Yeah that is kind of what I was thinking even on my Mage. Not every mage is going to turn into what Uldred became, but they are capable of it in a sense, and what if there had been no Templars there to lock the tower or slow them down. You would have a Pride Demon with his own tower ravaging the Lake Calanhed and the Banns around it on top of all the other problems. Basically Conner's situation with Redcliffe but even larger since Uldred was controlled by a Pride Demon, and had a ton of mages around him to make abominations. Think Blackmarsh+Redcliffex5.

Though I do think after a certain amount of years in the tower a Mage should be given his freedom. To do as he chooses away from the tower raise a family, work, etc. Possibly after a Harrowing and a certain amount of years of study a Mage can be determined strong enough to live without supervision, but the Templars keep his/her phylactery incase something goes wrong.

I don't think Blood Magic is dire as the Chantry makes it out to be. It has great power, but so does any man/women behind a sword or a fireball. Blood magic though is a lot easier to abuse(mind/blood control). It being learned from Demons makes you question the source, but I wouldn't forbid it because the first magic was taught by Old Gods/Demons not just Blood Magic. I would let mages practice blood magic with some rules, only your own life force or enemies can be used. So no sacrificing to go into fade or augment health. More you know about it the better you can fight it arm your Templars with littanys if one of them goes Uldred on the place, and run him through before it starts.


Been thinking about this some more, and since the games choice is complete independence which I think is a bad idea even if when I play as a Mage my emotional feel is to free the Circle especially when I think of what Wynne says about me being possibly the savior of the Circle in camp. If it was "Mage favored reform for the Circle" I would do that, but between complete independence and system they have now. I would choose the system they have now even if I hate the Chantry.

[Herr Uhl]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Letting them govern themselves, while still keeping magi separate from the main population to begin with. Have the chantry tone down the mage disapproving gospel and wait for the opinion of the people to change.

Keep a platoon of templars handy nearby the mage's residences as a safety precaution. Templars are still needed.

As sort of Mage Alienage?  Or magical Warsaw ghetto?  I say, free the mages! The Templars can still hunt them down if they become evildoers.

The problem isn't the mages, it is that they are feared as demons by the general population. Somebody dies in childbirth, blame the mage, bad harvest, blame the mage, boils on your feet, blame the mage.

[Gnoster]

She's a witch, she turned my into a newt ..well, I got better. May we burn her? .-)

[Anathemic]

Let the mages go free, the Chantry perverted Andraste's point of "Magic is meant to serve man, never to rule over him" instead while this is to help mages understand and be responsible over their magic the damn Chantry uses it as a leash on all mages, whether they are bad or not.

[Miri1984]

It's a quandary. I would want the mages to be MORE free than they are at present - having them cooped up with no privacy and no personal freedoms is just too much. I think a Templar unit in every town and the continued use of phylacteries and a mage education system more like a boarding school would make them less likely to rebel and still be enough to stop the more hideous stuff from happening.



Keep the harrowing as well - but maybe not the tranquil - unless mages actually ask for it. If they don't pass their harrowing they get killed - end of story. I don't get why they make tranquil to be honest, it's just as bad as death if not worse and what does it accomplish?



Really having all the young mages grouped together like they do in the Tower is just asking for the sort of thing that Uldred did - it's stupid and dangerous.

[Anathemic]

Miri1984 wrote...

It's a quandary. I would want the mages to be MORE free than they are at present - having them cooped up with no privacy and no personal freedoms is just too much. I think a Templar unit in every town and the continued use of phylacteries and a mage education system more like a boarding school would make them less likely to rebel and still be enough to stop the more hideous stuff from happening.

Keep the harrowing as well - but maybe not the tranquil - unless mages actually ask for it. If they don't pass their harrowing they get killed - end of story. I don't get why they make tranquil to be honest, it's just as bad as death if not worse and what does it accomplish?

Really having all the young mages grouped together like they do in the Tower is just asking for the sort of thing that Uldred did - it's stupid and dangerous.

Tranquil are useful for enchantments, since they already cut off from magic and the Fade, lyrium doesn't affect them to the effect that a surfacer (Elf, human) does (instant death).

And the Chantry already controlling lyrium trade to control the templars, are now using the Tranquil for their evil schemes: The Chantry must BURN

[Carmen_Willow]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Letting them govern themselves, while still keeping magi separate from the main population to begin with. Have the chantry tone down the mage disapproving gospel and wait for the opinion of the people to change.

Keep a platoon of templars handy nearby the mage's residences as a safety precaution. Templars are still needed.

As sort of Mage Alienage?  Or magical Warsaw ghetto?  I say, free the mages! The Templars can still hunt them down if they become evildoers.

The problem isn't the mages, it is that they are feared as demons by the general population. Somebody dies in childbirth, blame the mage, bad harvest, blame the mage, boils on your feet, blame the mage.

It is not right to imprison all Mages, based on the actions of a few.  The idea that the tower somehow "protects" them is a thinly veiled attempt  to keep them clustered in one spot so that they can experience the "final solution"  otherwise known as the Rite of Annulment, should the Chantry so desire.

[C9316]

Give mages the right to control their day to day lives with limited/no chantry control but allow the chantry to oversee them when more "Uldreds" pop up and endanger innocents.