39 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Freedom for the mages, definitely. At least from the Chantry. And set up a secular watchdog to oversee them. But the Chantry really needs to go.

[MadCat221]

The Chantry won't be giving up without a fight. Dogma doesn't exactly allow for rationale.

Modifié par MadCat221, 07 juillet 2010 - 07:36 .

[C9316]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Freedom for the mages, definitely. At least from the Chantry. And set up a secular watchdog to oversee them. But the Chantry really needs to go.

Power to the......um S*** forgot what that orgainization of mages in DAO was called do you remember?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I think the mages deserve alittle bit more freedom. My solution would be for the Templars to seperate themselves from the chantry and get off of that lyrium addiction. The chantry is to spread the word of the maker. They really don't need an army. My HNF isn't thrilled that her husband as King is crowned with his templar symbol and shield instead of that of a Grey Warden. She finds this worrisome for some reason.

[errant_knight]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I didn't want to go dig up some threads and necro them, but I am curious on what everyone thinks of this. The only origin you can grant them freedom is the "mage" origin, but if you could on all origins would you?

It is really hard for me to grant them freedom not because I'm pro Chantry. I think the Chantry is too powerful; governing mages, personal army that they control via lyrium, they control the lyrium market pretty much, the tranquility situation, etc. Mages though are feared ignorantly by some which could create conflicts, and then Conner's situation with the Desire Demon without the Templars forcing young children to go to the tower that would only happen more often, or maybe since mages are allowed more freedom they could be hired as tutors and it would still happen very rarely. Would gain more knowledge on Blood Magic more counter measurements like the litanny if mages had some wiggle room to research it without going to the Tevintar Imperium, or being labeled a malificarum. A lot of positives with a good upside, but also has just as much depth for failure, and could set mages being accepted back even furthur. Though the epilogue doesn't state anything bad happening from freeing them, and I am aware of this just thinking outside the lines, and more from an RP prespective. On my mage playthrough it was a tougher choice than I thought it should of been maybe I was over thinking it, but it would be hard for my Human Noble or City Elf to free them especially with my two most important encounters with magic being Conner's situation and the whole thing with Uldred.

Just curious on what others think of the Circle and it's relationship to the DA world. I'm eager to hear everyone's thoughts!

Much as it would suck to be a mage, the Chantry has a point. They can't just be allowed to do whatever they want unless you want to risk Ferelden turning into the Tevinter Imperium. If I could do what I wanted, I would move the Templars out of the tower to a castle on the shore, except for those who are on duty. Some of them have to be in the tower at all times because of the whole abomination risk. I would also not have the head of the templars/the Chantry in charge, but rather a joint council--the head of the templars, the first enchanter and a couple of others, with the balance equally split between factions. If they couldn't agree about a course of action, say, sending templars after someone, the ruler of Ferelden would break the deadlock. I'd still keep them in the tower, but make it easier to leave for a while. If they were scattered all over Ferelden , it would be impossible to keep an eye on them, and it's not like they have to want to become an abomination for it to happen.

[errant_knight]

C9316 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Freedom for the mages, definitely. At least from the Chantry. And set up a secular watchdog to oversee them. But the Chantry really needs to go.

Power to the......um S*** forgot what that orgainization of mages in DAO was called do you remember?

The Mage's Collective? Never trusted them, myself. Most of those quests are super sketchy.

[C9316]

errant_knight wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Freedom for the mages, definitely. At least from the Chantry. And set up a secular watchdog to oversee them. But the Chantry really needs to go.

Power to the......um S*** forgot what that orgainization of mages in DAO was called do you remember?

The Mage's Collective? Never trusted them, myself. Most of those quests are super sketchy.

True but since people don't want the chantry to control mages, with good reason it seems they'd be the best to govern the mages.

[MadCat221]

All of this is dependent on two things:

1: The Chantry seeing reason and

2: The Chantry being amenable to relinquishing power.

I see neither happening, unless the Chantry's sway over the populace is weakened somehow.

Modifié par MadCat221, 07 juillet 2010 - 08:07 .

[errant_knight]

C9316 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Freedom for the mages, definitely. At least from the Chantry. And set up a secular watchdog to oversee them. But the Chantry really needs to go.

Power to the......um S*** forgot what that orgainization of mages in DAO was called do you remember?

The Mage's Collective? Never trusted them, myself. Most of those quests are super sketchy.

True but since people don't want the chantry to control mages, with good reason it seems they'd be the best to govern the mages.

I think it's possible to have oversight, even involving the Chantry while increasing freedom to a degree, and at least not leaving things so open to the possibility of abuse. But this is the middle ages. These aren't secular people and they don't think that way. Templars are necessary, and that means Chantry involvement. There's no way to give them the kind of freedom Anders wants without putting Ferelden at risk, but things could improve. 

Re: the Mage's collective. You can't give people who might be blood mages oversight. You can't even give the circle sole oversight. It's too risky, and corruption isn't always voluntary.

[Herr Uhl]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The problem isn't the mages, it is that they are feared as demons by the general population. Somebody dies in childbirth, blame the mage, bad harvest, blame the mage, boils on your feet, blame the mage.

It is not right to imprison all Mages, based on the actions of a few.  The idea that the tower somehow "protects" them is a thinly veiled attempt  to keep them clustered in one spot so that they can experience the "final solution"  otherwise known as the Rite of Annulment, should the Chantry so desire.

...yes. Of ****ing course. The chantry are [members of the leading political party in Germany anno 1940].

And it isn't like they invoke the right of annulment for fun. If we are going to use WW2 analogies an A-bomb is more fit. And you do know of the witch tribunals of yore? This has the potential to be just as bad, if not worse, since magic actually exists. And there aren't enough mages to have them spread around with their families, some kind of institution is necessary. If we are going to have that, it might as well be secluded until people stop thinking of mages as demons.

And templars are necessary. There is no other viable anti-mage alternative as of yet, if you don't want to cut out their tongues at birth that is.

[MadCat221]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The problem isn't the mages, it is that they are feared as demons by the general population. Somebody dies in childbirth, blame the mage, bad harvest, blame the mage, boils on your feet, blame the mage.

It is not right to imprison all Mages, based on the actions of a few.  The idea that the tower somehow "protects" them is a thinly veiled attempt  to keep them clustered in one spot so that they can experience the "final solution"  otherwise known as the Rite of Annulment, should the Chantry so desire.

...yes. Of ****ing course. The chantry are [members of the leading political party in Germany anno 1940].

And it isn't like they invoke the right of annulment for fun. If we are going to use WW2 analogies an A-bomb is more fit. And you do know of the witch tribunals of yore? This has the potential to be just as bad, if not worse, since magic actually exists. And there aren't enough mages to have them spread around with their families, some kind of institution is necessary. If we are going to have that, it might as well be secluded until people stop thinking of mages as demons.

And templars are necessary. There is no other viable anti-mage alternative as of yet, if you don't want to cut out their tongues at birth that is.

I would not put it past the Chantry at all to call a Rite of Annulment on a Circle that starts wanting out from under the Templar heel, just to put all the other Circles back in line.  Heck, they consider an Exalted March against the people holding the Darkspawn down underground simply because a Circle crops up there outside the Chantry's control.

Templar SKILLS are necessary.  Zealous unthinking bigoted Chantry Templars and their power-tripping Chantry higher-up leash-holders are not.

What is needed is a mage sympathizer outside the Circle who can bring the plight of the Mages' way of life and paint them in a humanized light in the eyes of the populace, and paint the Chantry's treatment of mages as incongruent with their supposed "morality" they espouse <_<, allowing pressure to be put on the Chantry to ease up.

Modifié par MadCat221, 08 juillet 2010 - 12:50 .

[Carmen_Willow]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The problem isn't the mages, it is that they are feared as demons by the general population. Somebody dies in childbirth, blame the mage, bad harvest, blame the mage, boils on your feet, blame the mage.

It is not right to imprison all Mages, based on the actions of a few.  The idea that the tower somehow "protects" them is a thinly veiled attempt  to keep them clustered in one spot so that they can experience the "final solution"  otherwise known as the Rite of Annulment, should the Chantry so desire.

...yes. Of ****ing course. The chantry are [members of the leading political party in Germany anno 1940].

And it isn't like they invoke the right of annulment for fun. If we are going to use WW2 analogies an A-bomb is more fit. And you do know of the witch tribunals of yore? This has the potential to be just as bad, if not worse, since magic actually exists. And there aren't enough mages to have them spread around with their families, some kind of institution is necessary. If we are going to have that, it might as well be secluded until people stop thinking of mages as demons.

And templars are necessary. There is no other viable anti-mage alternative as of yet, if you don't want to cut out their tongues at birth that is.

There are always viable alternatives.  Mages don't need to be locked up in a tower constantly scrutinized by lyrium addicted, sexually frustrated, warrior priests who have as few rights as the Mages do.  Mages may turn into abominations, but Templars seem to have a great deal of zeal for hunting them down with their swords of mercy. 

And some of the templars I could name seemed pretty darned eager to annul certain mages. Cullen ended up with the "Slaughter them all and let the Maker sort it out,"  theory, while that female was quite passionate about chasing Anders down...talk about a sexually frustrated woman.

It's no wonder that the young mages in the tower turned to blood magic as a way out.  Who the heck wouldn't want a way out of a life-without-parole sentence?  It's bad enough to be hated and feared for what you are without also being confined like cattle waiting to be slaughtered. And it's dangerous  But then I suspect that the Chantry is quite aware that putting such pressure on the mages will cause a Circle or two to go rogue.  Then the Chantry can say, "Look, we told you they were dangerous."

(And as to the witch tribunals of yore, most of them were old women put on trial for daring to earn money as midwives and herbalists....they were competition for the barber surgeons and they had to go. Yet another powerless minority used as scapegoats. )

[Carmen_Willow]

@MadCat221



What you said!!

[Aurelet]

What they need is someone watching the Templars while the Templars watch the mages....

[Carmen_Willow]

Aurelet wrote...

What they need is someone watching the Templars while the Templars watch the mages....

(chuckles)