67 réponses à ce sujet

[Haexpane]

Aericyn wrote...

• Be careful not to apply straight MMO logic to a CRPG. Things get lost in translation.
• Perhaps increase difficulty. I suspect Nightmare will chuckle at Easy mode tactics, then proceed to feed leftover scraps of your Mabari to the dragonlings.
• A Mage is kinda supposed to be one shot, one kill with the right spell or tactic for encounter. Either you die or they die.
• Don't use "op" spells use like, Magic Missile?

Mage's of the Circle are not about so-called "balance", this is about power, destruction, omnipotence. Crushing your enemies, judging transgressors, and laying waste to the guilty. (Single player RPG) I am a mage, an all-encompassing slaughter wielding force of mystical energy, overshadowing all in his path.

I expect to annihilate enemies when I reach a certain level or learn a certain spell. Trivialize? Hmmph. Is that not the purpose of a mage?

(I don't have CoC, went full Entropy.) One of my favorite clustermob combo's: Affliction > Grease > Death Cloud > let 'em simmer and finish with a Fireball. Want to try full Elementalist with Spirit next.

[*]pahiled troll
[*]"MMO logic" is based on games like Baldur's Gate 2
[*]You are clearly another fan of unbalanced, pre patch gameplay.  Baldur's Gate 2 was patched, expect DAO to get patched, I can't wait to hear  complaining when they add some balance from the people that exploit the gameplay
[*]Balance has nothing to do w/ "CRPG vs. MMO"  Again, balance, patches, tweaks existed LONG BEFORE MMOs
[*]PnP is where balance started.  Tweaking rules etc...

[FatedHeart]

Once again....people want MMO balance in a single player game... Lore says mages can turn entire battles...loosing 20 men to 1 mage certainly gives that impression... lore>balance...

[Schyzm]

FatedHeart wrote...

Once again....people want MMO balance in a single player game... Lore says mages can turn entire battles...loosing 20 men to 1 mage certainly gives that impression... lore>balance...

the post directly above you proves how ignorant you are and you still post...wow.

[Creep_Show1334]

I like entropy spell much more, they're fun. Usually, I throw out a mass paralyze, then sleep since it's aoe, then I use waking nightmare on the lot, and watch everything take spirit damage while killing each other.

[Timortis]

I wish the trolls would stop with "don't use it, play on nightmare" such pointless posts. You strawmen don't seem to grasp the simple concept of gameplay balance.

We have to point out such things to you clueless folks when you guys say things like "it needs a saving throw" when there already is one. People resist it all the time when you play on Nightmare. Not only that but it lasts much much shorter on anything yellow or higher, less than a second usually on bosses or anything orange. It's quite balanced when you play against un-gimped monsters.

[Kleon]

Single player

[klagga]

Haexpane wrote...

Aericyn wrote...

• Be careful not to apply straight MMO logic to a CRPG. Things get lost in translation.
  
  
  
• Perhaps increase difficulty. I suspect Nightmare will chuckle at Easy mode tactics, then proceed to feed leftover scraps of your Mabari to the dragonlings.
  
  
  
• A Mage is kinda supposed to be one shot, one kill with the right spell or tactic for encounter. Either you die or they die.
  
  
  
• Don't use "op" spells use like, Magic Missile?

Mage's of the Circle are not about so-called "balance", this is about power, destruction, omnipotence. Crushing your enemies, judging transgressors, and laying waste to the guilty. (Single player RPG) I am a mage, an all-encompassing slaughter wielding force of mystical energy, overshadowing all in his path.

I expect to annihilate enemies when I reach a certain level or learn a certain spell. Trivialize? Hmmph. Is that not the purpose of a mage?

(I don't have CoC, went full Entropy.) One of my favorite clustermob combo's: Affliction > Grease > Death Cloud > let 'em simmer and finish with a Fireball. Want to try full Elementalist with Spirit next.

[*]pahiled troll



[*]"MMO logic" is based on games like Baldur's Gate 2



[*]You are clearly another fan of unbalanced, pre patch gameplay.  Baldur's Gate 2 was patched, expect DAO to get patched, I can't wait to hear  complaining when they add some balance from the people that exploit the gameplay



[*]Balance has nothing to do w/ "CRPG vs. MMO"  Again, balance, patches, tweaks existed LONG BEFORE MMOs



[*]PnP is where balance started.  Tweaking rules etc...

So everyone not agreeing with you is a troll? I agree with the IMHO very balanced post from Aericyn.

Modifié par klagga, 17 novembre 2009 - 08:25 .

[Pyrate_d]

it's the same problem with a lot of disable spells...if you have lyrium potions, the only limiting factor is the cooldown. And I don't think they were designed with infinite mana in mind

[kansadoom]

I have cone of cold and i still lose.......

[Kalendraf]

My mage uses cone of cold, but I don't find it overpowered for the following reasons:



1) Friendly fire - it's rather easy to accidentally hit and freeze allies. This can take out party members for a while, and end up back-firing. Even worse, if you freeze allies not in your party, they are extremely susceptible to being shattered by enemy attacks, causing them to instantly die. If you're doing a quest that requires saving NPCs, use this (and blizzard) with great caution.



2) It can miss. The cone isn't all that wide, and due to enemy movement, you can wind up missing the original target. I've even seen cases where allies moved directly into the cone and enemies moved out at the worst possible time.



3) It doesn't do much damage. The reason for using this is to shutdown foes. Damage-wise it seems rather week even with 40+ magic.



4) Positioning for best effect often leaves the mage vulnerable. Often there is the temptation to use this spell first at on-rushing attackers. But to do that, you need to put the mage up front ahead of the normal front-row warriors. This can lead to other problems, including making the mage a higher priority target for enemy ranged attackers and spellcasters. On more than one occassion I've seen my mage instantly die from trying this move...even in easy mode!



5) Due to prior points, especially 1, 3 and 4, the current recharge time is not really a problem. Often it becomes tricky to use more than once during a fight since it needs repositioning to reach new foes or too avoid hitting allies. Meanwhile, the damage from repeated uses is not all that big.

[maestro74]

What's with the talk of nerfing, this is not an MMO. The way I view it, as you level you you become closer and closer to awesome Grey Warden's shown in the pre-release movies. You are supposed to kick butt and take names. Cone of cold is devastating when you have a small group of enemies in a close space, but less advantageous on a larger battlefied with 10 archers spaced apart. I guess there will always just be a disconnect between the players that crave challenge, those that enjoy it in doses, and those that just want to play the game.

[Nighteye2]

Scyles wrote...

One of the problems is that cone of cold DURATION seems to scale with the magic attribute making the duration LONGER than the cooldown once you hit around 45 magic or so (dont have the exact numbers).
This allows you to keep at least 5 enemies completely disabled while you can cast other spells in the meantime.

Yes, this is the core of the issue with Cone of Cold.  This spell scales a bit too well.

Maybe on Normal. On Hard, the cooldown seems to always exceed the effect duration - and the effect is resisted a lot, too.

This game and all spells were designed with Hard difficulty in mind - that's why they may become imbalanced on lower difficulties.

[Lacan2]

Yes, it is a very powerful spell, but nothing is truly broken in this game. The challenge is still there. Your enemies will mostly surround you from scripted ambushes, so I don't have a problem with CoC.



Mass Paralysis seems more broken to me than CoC.



And hell, nothing in this game beats the spells from BG2. Time Stop, Chain Contingency, Protection from Magical Weapons, those are broken. This is not.

[defjam]

Magic Missles is for sissies

[DragoonKain3]

Cone of Cold is only really broken when multiple mages cast it to permafreeze even a boss, since it doesn't operate on diminishing returns like stuns do. Apart from that, while its very powerful, it still doesn't do a heck of a lot of damage, and costs quite a lot of mana as well, so while still powerful, its still balanced.

[Darpaek]

Morrigan froze my archdemon. =P

[Ketsana]

CoC is pretty useful since it's a form of crowd control that offers a chance at insta-kill when combined with any ability that crits and couple of spells (crushing prison and stone fist).



From my own experience while playing on Hard (never played Normal or Easy), CoC helps quite a bit against the melee mob or a small group of "whites", but if the enemy has a combined force of mages and archers, CoC will be just another tool to help control the flow of battle.



That being said, I don't think it needs to be "nerfed" in any way.

[Shannara13]

Haexpane wrote...

Aericyn wrote...

• Be careful not to apply straight MMO logic to a CRPG. Things get lost in translation.
• Perhaps increase difficulty. I suspect Nightmare will chuckle at Easy mode tactics, then proceed to feed leftover scraps of your Mabari to the dragonlings.
• A Mage is kinda supposed to be one shot, one kill with the right spell or tactic for encounter. Either you die or they die.
• Don't use "op" spells use like, Magic Missile?

Mage's of the Circle are not about so-called "balance", this is about power, destruction, omnipotence. Crushing your enemies, judging transgressors, and laying waste to the guilty. (Single player RPG) I am a mage, an all-encompassing slaughter wielding force of mystical energy, overshadowing all in his path.

I expect to annihilate enemies when I reach a certain level or learn a certain spell. Trivialize? Hmmph. Is that not the purpose of a mage?

(I don't have CoC, went full Entropy.) One of my favorite clustermob combo's: Affliction > Grease > Death Cloud > let 'em simmer and finish with a Fireball. Want to try full Elementalist with Spirit next.

[*]pahiled troll
[*]"MMO logic" is based on games like Baldur's Gate 2
[*]You are clearly another fan of unbalanced, pre patch gameplay.  Baldur's Gate 2 was patched, expect DAO to get patched, I can't wait to hear  complaining when they add some balance from the people that exploit the gameplay
[*]Balance has nothing to do w/ "CRPG vs. MMO"  Again, balance, patches, tweaks existed LONG BEFORE MMOs
[*]PnP is where balance started.  Tweaking rules etc...

WTF are you talking about? BG2 was balanced? A high level mage in BG2 was a god that made all melee superfluous.

Modifié par Shannara13, 20 novembre 2009 - 01:56 .

[kormesios]

Ketsana wrote...

CoC is pretty useful since it's a form of crowd control that offers a chance at insta-kill when combined with any ability that crits and couple of spells (crushing prison and stone fist).

From my own experience while playing on Hard (never played Normal or Easy), CoC helps quite a bit against the melee mob or a small group of "whites", but if the enemy has a combined force of mages and archers, CoC will be just another tool to help control the flow of battle.

That being said, I don't think it needs to be "nerfed" in any way.

This is my experience too (also on hard).  It's a very useful short range spell, definitely.  But it's use is to break up big mobs into manageable pieces, or individual melee bosses enough to make things competetive.  It doesn't guarantee a win.

It could be my fighter builds are too weak, and don't do enough damage while bosses are frozen as they should.  But either way, it's a slow-down, not an eliminate (except against grunts in the last chapter, where it's pure fun.)

[Niten Ryu]

Nightmare mode might as well be easy mode if you use mage, especially for something other then just healing. My Rogue dwarven commoner run on hard difficulty was much harder then my current run with my disfigured elven mage on nightmare difficulty. I have to check from time to time if difficulty really is set on nightmare because it's just that easy with mage. I can stunlock massive crowds with just fireball, grease and cone of cold (and those spells are not even optimal way but i didn't want to take for example earthquake).



Mages power is clearly showed in this video.



Final boss killed solo... and naked.

[adam_nox]

[quote]Niten Ryu wrote...

Nightmare mode might as well be easy mode if you use mage, especially for something other then just healing. My Rogue dwarven commoner run on hard difficulty was much harder then my current run with my disfigured elven mage on nightmare difficulty. I have to check from time to time if difficulty really is set on nightmare because it's just that easy with mage. I can stunlock massive crowds with just fireball, grease and cone of cold (and those spells are not even optimal

uh, yeah those 3 spells will make you overpowered.  not optimal?  lol yes that's actually a very optimal and powerful combination.

but trust me life as a mage is very difficult without them.  I played through without any short cooldown CC, and no CC at all for most of the game until I got paralyze and mass paralyze.  I also played with the dog in place of alistair, and it was hell on normal mode, because even having a couple enemies attack you puts your life at serious risk without CC.

[Schyzm]

Niten Ryu wrote...

Nightmare mode might as well be easy mode if you use mage, especially for something other then just healing. My Rogue dwarven commoner run on hard difficulty was much harder then my current run with my disfigured elven mage on nightmare difficulty. I have to check from time to time if difficulty really is set on nightmare because it's just that easy with mage. I can stunlock massive crowds with just fireball, grease and cone of cold (and those spells are not even optimal way but i didn't want to take for example earthquake).

Mages power is clearly showed in this video.

Final boss killed solo... and naked.

lol now that is funny, especially the 2x speed.

[Shannara13]

Niten Ryu wrote...

Nightmare mode might as well be easy mode if you use mage, especially for something other then just healing. My Rogue dwarven commoner run on hard difficulty was much harder then my current run with my disfigured elven mage on nightmare difficulty. I have to check from time to time if difficulty really is set on nightmare because it's just that easy with mage. I can stunlock massive crowds with just fireball, grease and cone of cold (and those spells are not even optimal way but i didn't want to take for example earthquake).

Mages power is clearly showed in this video.

Final boss killed solo... and naked.

And I soloed all of BG2+TOB+Ascension patch with a Sorc. What is you point?

[Skellimancer]

Niten Ryu wrote...


Mages power is clearly showed in this video.

Final boss killed solo... and naked.

Nice balance, Bioware.

[Taritu]

Mages are ridiculously powerful. I immediately notice when I switch to my mage, and yes CoC is also overpowered.



My main suggestions (other than just not taking op spells, which is what I've started doing), if BW wants to fix is:



1) On hard + difficulty, remove infinite lyrium from the tower quartermaster. Infinite mana through potions is the core of much of the problem. either that or significantly increase the cooldown on lyrium potions and put all of the different types on the same cooldown (at least 30 seconds)

2) Increase CoC's cooldown to 30 seconds.

3) Forcefield wipes all agro on the person forcefielded (just how stupid are people, continually swinging at someone in a forcefield while a mage aoe's them down?)

4) remove storm of the century.

5) Default agro for all mobs is to kill the mage. If someone gets their attention with even one point of agro they switch. But again, intelligent enemies would always kill mages first, unless someone had a sword in their face. I know that when I see an enemy mage I make it job one to take him out.