181 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

Tunaria wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

However building new area which is supposed to utilize different architecture (given Orlais is supposed to be more civilized than backwater Ferelden) means the bulk of preparation work has to be done just the same no matter if you then use the pieces to create just one level or a dozen.

Indeed.
People complaining about the re-use of areas have no idea how much time and effort designing a entirely new area requires, even for one small DLC as this.

Orlais is supposed to be vastly different from Ferelden, remember, so everything needs to be built from scratch, which would end up costing too much for a small DLC for about 5€.

Bioware did what they could do with the time and resources given to them, and still manage to earn a profit.

Agreed.

I've modded for Half Life 2 and made maps No One Lives Forever 2. Its not easy to do. I'd like to see the nitpickers try to create something that fufills all their wants.

[darkshadow136]

I also want to add that the only glitches I've found in the DLC are that that the Vendetta achievement can't be acquired even if you do everything to destroy his career, and the achievements don't upload to the profile page on the forum. Also Lelianas weapon get disarmed and put in regular inventory after the 1st part of the DLC.

[errant_knight]

Melca36 wrote...

Tunaria wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

However building new area which is supposed to utilize different architecture (given Orlais is supposed to be more civilized than backwater Ferelden) means the bulk of preparation work has to be done just the same no matter if you then use the pieces to create just one level or a dozen.

Indeed.
People complaining about the re-use of areas have no idea how much time and effort designing a entirely new area requires, even for one small DLC as this.

Orlais is supposed to be vastly different from Ferelden, remember, so everything needs to be built from scratch, which would end up costing too much for a small DLC for about 5€.

Bioware did what they could do with the time and resources given to them, and still manage to earn a profit.

Agreed.

I've modded for Half Life 2 and made maps No One Lives Forever 2. Its not easy to do. I'd like to see the nitpickers try to create something that fufills all their wants.

Too bad we can't make everyone build a level with multiple areas. Complete with original architecture meshes and new textures so that it looks different from Ferelden, of course.

Modifié par errant_knight, 07 juillet 2010 - 06:45 .

[Noir201]

Glad Orlais hasn't been used, i want to see it in all it's glory in Dragon Age 2, a striped down bit won't have been so good in Leliana Song, the fact story and chars took main focus, means the old bioware back!

[Costin_Razvan]

You are missing the point if you honestly think people are pissed about the fact they are reusing the same areas for this DLC.

People are pissed about the fact they decided to destroy the story Leliana shows in Origins by setting this DLC in Fereldan. If they wanted to make a DLC about Leliana then they either should have done it properly in Orlais or NOT done it at all and instead make it about another companion that does have his personal story in Fereldan ( Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, Anders for example ).

Oh and the argument that for a simple 7$ per DLC means they can't afford to make a new zone and provide good VO and story is bull****.

Fallout 3 - Operation Anchorage, Broken Steel, Mothership Zeta, Point Lookout, The Pitt all cost 9.99$ each and have a solid story, new massive zones and good VO.

Mass Effect 2: Overlord SAME price as Leliana's Song, about 5 missions worth of new space created for it alone, solid story and Voice Work.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 06:45 .

[errant_knight]

Noir201 wrote...

Glad Orlais hasn't been used, i want to see it in all it's glory in Dragon Age 2, a striped down bit won't have been so good in Leliana Song, the fact story and chars took main focus, means the old bioware back!

I was starting to get more than just worried. I don't know what happened, but it wasn't good. I just hope that things stay on track, and that other recent work wasn't part of an ongoing disagreement about creative direction. DLC like this and 'The Stone Prisoner' is what I expect from Bioware. Yay, Leliana's Song!

[mousestalker]

I enjoyed it. It seems like good value for the money. What I didn't enjoy was how downloading it broke every other DLC and forced me to re-download and install them as well.



I'm almost certain I couldn't design a better game. I am absolutely positive I can design a better installer package.

[Melca36]

errant_knight wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Tunaria wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

However building new area which is supposed to utilize different architecture (given Orlais is supposed to be more civilized than backwater Ferelden) means the bulk of preparation work has to be done just the same no matter if you then use the pieces to create just one level or a dozen.

Indeed.
People complaining about the re-use of areas have no idea how much time and effort designing a entirely new area requires, even for one small DLC as this.

Orlais is supposed to be vastly different from Ferelden, remember, so everything needs to be built from scratch, which would end up costing too much for a small DLC for about 5€.

Bioware did what they could do with the time and resources given to them, and still manage to earn a profit.

Agreed.

I've modded for Half Life 2 and made maps No One Lives Forever 2. Its not easy to do. I'd like to see the nitpickers try to create something that fufills all their wants.

Too bad we can't make everyone build a level with multiple areas. Complete with original architecture meshes and new textures so that it looks different from Ferelden, of course.

Oh man don't even get me started on textures. My boyfriend and I are working on mod for LFD2 and we've been making all new textures for it.

[Melca36]

Noir201 wrote...

Glad Orlais hasn't been used, i want to see it in all it's glory in Dragon Age 2, a striped down bit won't have been so good in Leliana Song, the fact story and chars took main focus, means the old bioware back!

This!

[Darth Drago]

Melca36 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Most people seem to just blindly accept that now Leliana either didn’t tell the truth to you in Origins about what happened to her, will just shrug this inconsistency off as her retelling a story a new way or due to financial issues couldn’t make the locations in Orlais.

The fact you used the term 'blindly' makes me assume that you consider the people who did enjoy it to be beneath you.

Sorry, if you didn't like it but some of us did. Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.

-Just read all the comments by most of the people who like it forum wide. They fit in one of those three groups. Liliana didn’t tell the truth about what happened, just shrug off these inconsistencies off or due to financial restraints they couldn’t set it Orlais and will just accept that as well. Not many people care one way or another that her new story about what happened is now different from what she told you in Origins. Its got Leliana in it so its god worthy content regardless of how bad it actually is.

I just love it when people like you come back with the standard reply like “Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.” Heaven forbid someone should say something against the mob mentality around here.

Lets look at the basics on downloads:

1. You cant rent them or return them after you purchase them.

2. For the most part, the only source for any kind of reviews come from the people who purchase it. Going by the majority here, Liliana’s Song should be the model of all downloads made by every developer since it’s godlike in perfection.

3. I expect better quality from a developer like BioWare to release something of quality. Instead we are getting EA standard quality vapor ware, only made to make a quick buck.

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle. The chantry would still be the same since its very likely that most chantry’s are built and look the same.

Considering the small locations Leliana’s Song took place in to begin with, the market district of Denerim and the inside of an estate, not having it set in Orlais is just messed up and seems pointless even to do if you cant do it right in the first place.

If they had actually taken their time to make this small chunk of a city in Orlais as well expand on what we got story wise to make it a expansion sized thing in the lines of what Bethesda makes it would have been something worthy of replaying and it could have been something great. But again, BioWare seems to enjoy chucking quantity downloads with several short mediocre quests over quality like longer meaningful adventures.

[tmp7704]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Mass Effect 2: Overlord SAME price as Leliana's Song, about 5 missions worth of new space created for it alone, solid story and Voice Work.

Is there solid VO in it, really? Because the one complaint i read about it was, while there's some new voice bits for Shepard and another character, there's no new companion dialogue just the default combat chatter. And a former BioWare employee from ME team commented seeing new party dialogue in these DLCs is unlikely because hiring the people involved would greatly increase the cost...

[errant_knight]

Darth Drago wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Most people seem to just blindly accept that now Leliana either didn’t tell the truth to you in Origins about what happened to her, will just shrug this inconsistency off as her retelling a story a new way or due to financial issues couldn’t make the locations in Orlais.

The fact you used the term 'blindly' makes me assume that you consider the people who did enjoy it to be beneath you.

Sorry, if you didn't like it but some of us did. Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.

-Just read all the comments by most of the people who like it forum wide. They fit in one of those three groups. Liliana didn’t tell the truth about what happened, just shrug off these inconsistencies off or due to financial restraints they couldn’t set it Orlais and will just accept that as well. Not many people care one way or another that her new story about what happened is now different from what she told you in Origins. Its got Leliana in it so its god worthy content regardless of how bad it actually is.

I just love it when people like you come back with the standard reply like “Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.” Heaven forbid someone should say something against the mob mentality around here.

Lets look at the basics on downloads:

1. You cant rent them or return them after you purchase them.

2. For the most part, the only source for any kind of reviews come from the people who purchase it. Going by the majority here, Liliana’s Song should be the model of all downloads made by every developer since it’s godlike in perfection.

3. I expect better quality from a developer like BioWare to release something of quality. Instead we are getting EA standard quality vapor ware, only made to make a quick buck.

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle. The chantry would still be the same since its very likely that most chantry’s are built and look the same.

Considering the small locations Leliana’s Song took place in to begin with, the market district of Denerim and the inside of an estate, not having it set in Orlais is just messed up and seems pointless even to do if you cant do it right in the first place.

If they had actually taken their time to make this small chunk of a city in Orlais as well expand on what we got story wise to make it a expansion sized thing in the lines of what Bethesda makes it would have been something worthy of replaying and it could have been something great. But again, BioWare seems to enjoy chucking quantity downloads with several short mediocre quests over quality like longer meaningful adventures.

Or in other words.... 'I'm right, and anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either stupid, or a servile lackey with poor taste.'

[Costin_Razvan]

Is there solid VO in it, really?

The fact the companions have no dialogue for it doesn't mean the dialogue between Shepard and Archer isn't solid, because it is.

[Melca36]

Darth Drago wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Most people seem to just blindly accept that now Leliana either didn’t tell the truth to you in Origins about what happened to her, will just shrug this inconsistency off as her retelling a story a new way or due to financial issues couldn’t make the locations in Orlais.

The fact you used the term 'blindly' makes me assume that you consider the people who did enjoy it to be beneath you.

Sorry, if you didn't like it but some of us did. Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.

-Just read all the comments by most of the people who like it forum wide. They fit in one of those three groups. Liliana didn’t tell the truth about what happened, just shrug off these inconsistencies off or due to financial restraints they couldn’t set it Orlais and will just accept that as well. Not many people care one way or another that her new story about what happened is now different from what she told you in Origins. Its got Leliana in it so its god worthy content regardless of how bad it actually is.

I just love it when people like you come back with the standard reply like “Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.” Heaven forbid someone should say something against the mob mentality around here.

Lets look at the basics on downloads:

1. You cant rent them or return them after you purchase them.

2. For the most part, the only source for any kind of reviews come from the people who purchase it. Going by the majority here, Liliana’s Song should be the model of all downloads made by every developer since it’s godlike in perfection.

3. I expect better quality from a developer like BioWare to release something of quality. Instead we are getting EA standard quality vapor ware, only made to make a quick buck.

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle. The chantry would still be the same since its very likely that most chantry’s are built and look the same.

Considering the small locations Leliana’s Song took place in to begin with, the market district of Denerim and the inside of an estate, not having it set in Orlais is just messed up and seems pointless even to do if you cant do it right in the first place.

If they had actually taken their time to make this small chunk of a city in Orlais as well expand on what we got story wise to make it a expansion sized thing in the lines of what Bethesda makes it would have been something worthy of replaying and it could have been something great. But again, BioWare seems to enjoy chucking quantity downloads with several short mediocre quests over quality like longer meaningful adventures.

Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I think your expectations are way too high.

Please show us you expertise and game design and I will personally admit I was wrong.

Its perfectly alright that you didn't like it. I think it bothers you that your opinion is in the minority.

[tmp7704]

Darth Drago wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle.

However as people are pointing out, even making "just 3 locations" would still require to build and texture large number of custom model pieces which are then used to put together the levels. And this is huge amount of work. Consider that even the original full game that's Origins only contains 3 or so such architectural sets (Ferelden, dwarven, Tevinter ruins) and Awakening adds maybe half of a set of extra pieces to that.

[Melca36]

errant_knight wrote...



Or in other words.... 'I'm right, and anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either stupid, or a servile lackey with poor taste.'

I'd like to see the person's ability at game design myself.

I got my money's worth and I think the whiners are just a bit upset because they are in the minority.

[Melca36]

tmp7704 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle.

However as people are pointing out, even making "just 3 locations" would still require to build and texture large number of custom model pieces which are then used to put together the levels. And this is huge amount of work. Consider that even the original full game that's Origins only contains 3 or so such architectural sets (Ferelden, dwarven, Tevinter ruins) and Awakening adds maybe half of a set of extra pieces to that.

I bet you most of these complainers do not know the time, effort, and painstaking process it takes to do all of this.

[tmp7704]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Is there solid VO in it, really?

The fact the companions have no dialogue for it doesn't mean the dialogue between Shepard and Archer isn't solid, because it is.

But having voicework just for two characters (3 people given Shepard is really two persons) isn't exactly much. Consider the cast in Leliana's DLC is quite larger than that, and all these people have to be paid, for similar time spent recording in both cases.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

darkshadow136 wrote...

I also want to add that the only glitches I've found in the DLC are that that the Vendetta achievement can't be acquired even if you do everything to destroy his career, and the achievements don't upload to the profile page on the forum. Also Lelianas weapon get disarmed and put in regular inventory after the 1st part of the DLC.

 

I had the same exact problem and also had this same problem with DC.  I'm beginning to wonder if them not putting the epilogue saves in at the end is the reason these achievements aren't unlocking?  For me it seems to be the case and somehow this is messing up these achievements from unlocking.  Seems they forgot to allow the transition between the end killing scene and the end cut scene with your dialogue with Marjoline.  It's the same crap that is happening at the end of Awakening.  Hopefully, the new patch will fix this.  I do think they need to rethink the issue of the saves at the end.

[mousestalker]

Melca36 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle.

However as people are pointing out, even making "just 3 locations" would still require to build and texture large number of custom model pieces which are then used to put together the levels. And this is huge amount of work. Consider that even the original full game that's Origins only contains 3 or so such architectural sets (Ferelden, dwarven, Tevinter ruins) and Awakening adds maybe half of a set of extra pieces to that.

I bet you most of these complainers do not know the time, effort, and painstaking process it takes to do all of this.

What effort? You just wave your magic wand and sprinkle some pixel dust around and voila! Whole new gaming areas.

[Costin_Razvan]

I bet you most of these complainers do not know the time, effort, and painstaking process it takes to do all of this.

Oh really? I have created mods myself. Creating a zone from scratch is a pain in the ass. However using that as an argument when other companies, even Bioware itself with ME2, have created new zones, gave solid VO and a strong story and then price the DLC at about the same price tag like Leliana's Song is now. ( if you had played Kasumi's Stolen Memory or Overlord you would know what I am talking about ).

I liked Darkspawn Chronicles because it finally allowed me to play a massive battle on my PC without lag ( that plagues me in origins ), I liked RTO because it gave me a strong argument for my defense of Loghain, but I do agree those two DLCs are crap compared to other DLC.

Leliena'a Song is a good and solid step forward with DLC for Dragon Age, but it's still sub par when compared to other DLC from other games.

 But having voicework just for two characters (3 people given Shepard is really two persons) isn't exactly much. Consider the cast in Leliana's DLC is quite larger than that, and all these people have to be paid, for similar time spent recording in both cases.

It ain't just 3 people, there is also the VI for the Hammerhead ( which does give a lot of instructions in the open world ), then there are a few Cerberus personnel and David, so it's about 6-7 people in total. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 07:22 .

[Arrtis]

tmp7704 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle.

However as people are pointing out, even making "just 3 locations" would still require to build and texture large number of custom model pieces which are then used to put together the levels. And this is huge amount of work. Consider that even the original full game that's Origins only contains 3 or so such architectural sets (Ferelden, dwarven, Tevinter ruins) and Awakening adds maybe half of a set of extra pieces to that.

No one is saying go make everything in Orlais. You can really make the area with a few or less new models and a lot of things reused.Thus 1 new area.Since leliana i do not think specified any specific part of Orlais i think you can get away with it.Such as it being near the border and some of ferelden influence carried over.Do not even need any of it to go into the DA/Orlais when they really get into it.I imagine just a new area in general even if using  old models and calling it Orlais would have been enough.Millions of reason you can make as to why it looked like ferelden buildings.I am sure they can come up with a good one.

[X-COM]

Hi,
I have already played Leliana's song twice and in both occasion I was not able to collect all 6 Masterwork Leather Pieces (I only found 5).

Can you tell me where they are?


I think it is important to tell I was not able to enter two locations in the estate. 
One small room in the hallway with the "treasury" with some whispers.
And the other one in the lower level with the cell. It is at your right hand once you exit the cell. It seems like a large room or so.
I am able to see those on the map, there are doors but they are inactive (no option of opening or lockpicking).

How can I enter there?

Thanks for helping

[tmp7704]

Arrtis wrote...

Do not even need any of it to go into the DA/Orlais when they really get into it.I imagine just a new area in general even if using  old models and calling it Orlais would have been enough.Millions of reason you can make as to why it looked like ferelden buildings.I am sure they can come up with a good one.

Must say while i was disappointed they didn't manage to include some glimpse of Orlais in the DLC, i'd be more disappointed if they just provided some generic piece of Ferelden and said it's Orlais. So yes it's a "your mileage may vary" thing but it's to point out perhaps it's one of these "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

[blasmeister]

Did anyone have any issues with talent-learning? I learned Coup de grace at level 11, then again at level 12, before giving up on trying to get it to stay learned when I found it had unlearned itself again at 13