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[swirlwind]

blasmeister wrote...

Did anyone have any issues with talent-learning? I learned Coup de grace at level 11, then again at level 12, before giving up on trying to get it to stay learned when I found it had unlearned itself again at 13

I noticed this was an issue with the default dagger Leliana has in her off-hand. Whenever you unequip the dagger, you lose Coup de Grace, and when you re-equip the dagger, the talent reappears. I solved it by always using the dagger...

[blasmeister]

Ah, that does seem to be the case - teach me for trying to upgrade my weapons, I guess

[HBC Dresden]

tmp7704 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Mass Effect 2: Overlord SAME price as Leliana's Song, about 5 missions worth of new space created for it alone, solid story and Voice Work.

Is there solid VO in it, really? Because the one complaint i read about it was, while there's some new voice bits for Shepard and another character, there's no new companion dialogue just the default combat chatter. And a former BioWare employee from ME team commented seeing new party dialogue in these DLCs is unlikely because hiring the people involved would greatly increase the cost...

So no party dialogue means no solid voice work? Ummm, Shep, Archer, David, etc. all had excellent new lines in the DLC. Are you high? (I mean, I wish there was too, but don't say things that aren't true.)

Sorry guys/gals, got a little off topic.

Modifié par HBC Dresden, 07 juillet 2010 - 10:31 .

[tmp7704]

HBC Dresden wrote...

So no party dialogue means no solid voice work? Ummm, Shep, Archer, David, etc. all had excellent new lines in the DLC. Are you high? (I mean, I wish there was too, but don't say things that aren't true.)

It simply means there's relatively less of voice work to do, which allows to spend a larger remaining part of the budget on other things (extra levels, missions, whathaveyou)  Which means it's not really strange another piece of DLC is able to provide more of such other things at the same price. Although yes, it could be argued that not providing the player's companions with voice work to cut down the costs isn't exactly "solid", at least when compared with alternative which does do that.

And no, i'm not high; but you're pointlessly rude and that just because you failed to grasp the point. gg.

[Costin_Razvan]

Tmp: have you played Overlord? I would say there is about the same amount of Dialogue lines in it as there in Leliana's Song. ( though there are less actors in Overlord )

I also forgot the facility VI actor, so that's a total of 8 people.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 11:00 .

[tmp7704]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Tmp: have you played Overlord? I would say there is about the same amount of Dialogue lines in it as there in Leliana's Song. ( though there are less actors in Overlord )

No, this is why i originally asked to confirm what i read. And my argument was mainly about the number of actors involved since if you have e.g. two different VAs hired for one day in one project but four different actors hired also for one day in the other, then one of these is going to cost more than the other all other factors remaining the same.

[Costin_Razvan]

I do not think the cost of a few more voice actors is about the same cost as making all those areas for Overlord.

I also am starting to have a suspicion that Bioware has actors which are working for them as a full time job with a fixed salary, not just for one game or another.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 11:20 .

[tmp7704]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I do not think the cost of a few more voice actors is about the same cost as making all those areas for Overlord.

I also am starting to have a suspicion that Bioware has actors which are working for them as a full time job with a fixed salary, not just for one game or another.

Well, it's choice between spending money on person who records the voice or spending that money on person who sits and puts together pieces into a level. I think we can at least agree that given limited amount of money there will generally be need to pick and choose what to spend it on?

I don't think they have VAs on full time contracts, given the names they credit in their games with this work. Although maybe i'm misreading what you call the full time job..

[dewayne31]

i have a question how many masterpieces should i have by the second time i go the arl estate?

[TheTrooper1138]

best DLC so far imo, only I found the final battle was far too difficult... I played through the main game in Nightmare no problem, also the whole DLC, but for the final battle I had to switch to easy (!) to finally make it... crappy balancing imo! But apart from that, as I said, great DLC! Well and Leliana looks kinda crappy in it too, but fortunately there are already mods for that on the Nexus...

[Costin_Razvan]

Well, it's choice between spending money on person who records the voice or spending that money on person who sits and puts together pieces into a level. I think we can at least agree that given limited amount of money there will generally be need to pick and choose what to spend it on?

Ok, I just watched the credits for Leliana's Song, and there are only 7 credited voice actors in it ( might be more, dunno ).

Overlord has a total of 7, as far as I can tell after a recount, so honestly this shows that Bioware did went cheap with Leliana's Song.

Hell Kasumi's DLC has more voice actors ( Hale, Meer, Kasumi, Hock, two guards with different actors, and three or four guests ) and a entirely new mission zone as small as it compared to the one that is used in Leliana's song DLC.

TheTrooper1138: I agree on that account.

Fighting the Drake alone isn't all that hard on Nightmare, but fighting the Drake + Raleigh is almost impossible unless you saved most of the Healing and Mana potions so far ( and I have 3 Health Potions and 1 Mana one ).

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juillet 2010 - 01:33 .

[Sabariel]

I was more disappointed that the tunic you received was not of unique design.

[TheTrooper1138]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

TheTrooper1138: I agree on that account.

Fighting the Drake alone isn't all that hard on Nightmare, but fighting the Drake + Raleigh is almost impossible unless you saved most of the Healing and Mana potions so far ( and I have 3 Health Potions and 1 Mana one ).

The Drake was rather easy, even managed to shatter it once (!), but Raleigh is really hardcore... also I didn't find a single potion during the whole DLC and the merchant only sells 2 or 3... and then you don't find a shield Silas can use, which also sucks, 'cause I skilled him as a sword/shield kind of warrior, not knowing I would not find a singe usable shield (only one restricted to Templars, wtf?!)... so balancing is crap, but storytelling of this DLC was so great that I can even overlook that...

@Sabariel: yeah, forgot to mention that... pretty cheap, at least could have made some custom meshes for that one, but know, it's just some leather armour... expected more...

[Costin_Razvan]

I bought one from the merchant to for Silas to use, but yeah I agree with the templar shield thing.

I admit the writers did a good job at making the story for this DLC, but I hate the fact it goes against a lot of stuff Leliana tells us in again, and this is because Bioware didn't want to spend the money on making this a proper DLC and instead recycled old areas.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juillet 2010 - 01:56 .

[TiaraBlade]

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

follis2 wrote...
The major detail for me was meeting Adaia, the mother of the City Elf Warden! As for hints about Dragon Age 2, I would guess it has to do about the relationship between Orlais and Ferelden.

Oh, oh, oh! This just gave me chills  - this in itself would make me buy the DLC!

I freaked out. I was like, "mom?"

Very cool meeting my character's mother. I wish that it could have read my first game, kitted her out as a dual wielder (like her daughter) and used her for the rest of the game. Since my PC fell in love with Leliana, a line like, "I think my daughter would have liked to meet you," would have rocked.

[Sarah1281]

They couldn't really use daughter without canonizing the CE's gender.

[TiaraBlade]

Much respect for the way he died though -- he was protecting his friend.

Agreed. That said a great deal about his character. He seems like he's just in it for coin and a good brawl but his loyalty to his friends was commendable. Sketch's revelation that Tug was buying time so they didn't cut off the mage's hands really hit.

Nice going Bioware. I wish some of the encounters were a little more balanced and the story was longer but overall, a nice piece of DLC- MUCH better than the darkspawn one.

[TiaraBlade]

Sarah1281 wrote...

They couldn't really use daughter without canonizing the CE's gender.

As Leliana says, the details change with the audience. If it read my CE and based the DLC on that, it works. If not, the game can just comment instead as "my child." The game could have even started with the game choosing which character that Leliana was telling it to or just no one in particular.

[EnchantedEyes1]

TiaraBlade wrote...


I freaked out. I was like, "mom?"

Very cool meeting my character's mother. I wish that it could have read my first game, kitted her out as a dual wielder (like her daughter) and used her for the rest of the game. Since my PC fell in love with Leliana, a line like, "I think my daughter would have liked to meet you," would have rocked.

Me too!

For some reason, when Leliana went to talk to her I didn't get any dialogue, I'm playing through again to see if I can trigger it. I really wish they'd given her more backstory though - it's not fair to be teased so!

[TiaraBlade]

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

TiaraBlade wrote...


I freaked out. I was like, "mom?"

Very cool meeting my character's mother. I wish that it could have read my first game, kitted her out as a dual wielder (like her daughter) and used her for the rest of the game. Since my PC fell in love with Leliana, a line like, "I think my daughter would have liked to meet you," would have rocked.

Me too!

For some reason, when Leliana went to talk to her I didn't get any dialogue, I'm playing through again to see if I can trigger it. I really wish they'd given her more backstory though - it's not fair to be teased so!

OMG! Mom never said I was a twin!

[Prowler]

Someone mentioned being able to complete the early theft missions without alerting the guards; was wondering how that was accomplished.

[Swoo]

swirlwind wrote...

blasmeister wrote...

Did anyone have any issues with talent-learning? I learned Coup de grace at level 11, then again at level 12, before giving up on trying to get it to stay learned when I found it had unlearned itself again at 13

I noticed this was an issue with the default dagger Leliana has in her off-hand. Whenever you unequip the dagger, you lose Coup de Grace, and when you re-equip the dagger, the talent reappears. I solved it by always using the dagger...

That is normally a sign of Mod confliction. It could just be a bug, but there is a long standing conflict with mod's like Improved Atmosphere and various custom weapons that messes with CdG and certain weapon properties overwriting/altering the talent tree.

[errant_knight]

Prowler wrote...

Someone mentioned being able to complete the early theft missions without alerting the guards; was wondering how that was accomplished.

Really?! That's interesting! I'll have to work on that.

[MDarwin]

Melca36 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

Most people seem to just blindly accept that now Leliana either didn’t tell the truth to you in Origins about what happened to her, will just shrug this inconsistency off as her retelling a story a new way or due to financial issues couldn’t make the locations in Orlais.

The fact you used the term 'blindly' makes me assume that you consider the people who did enjoy it to be beneath you.

Sorry, if you didn't like it but some of us did. Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.

-Just read all the comments by most of the people who like it forum wide. They fit in one of those three groups. Liliana didn’t tell the truth about what happened, just shrug off these inconsistencies off or due to financial restraints they couldn’t set it Orlais and will just accept that as well. Not many people care one way or another that her new story about what happened is now different from what she told you in Origins. Its got Leliana in it so its god worthy content regardless of how bad it actually is.

I just love it when people like you come back with the standard reply like “Nobody forced you to by the DLC. Next time one comes out, treat yourself to a burger.” Heaven forbid someone should say something against the mob mentality around here.

Lets look at the basics on downloads:

1. You cant rent them or return them after you purchase them.

2. For the most part, the only source for any kind of reviews come from the people who purchase it. Going by the majority here, Liliana’s Song should be the model of all downloads made by every developer since it’s godlike in perfection.

3. I expect better quality from a developer like BioWare to release something of quality. Instead we are getting EA standard quality vapor ware, only made to make a quick buck.

Arrtis wrote...

no one says you have to build all of oralis just a few new areas.

-Exactly.

If you include the finale location it would require 3 new locations. A market area in an Orlasin city, the interior of a similar manor in that city and a new generic exterior spot for the finale battle. The chantry would still be the same since its very likely that most chantry’s are built and look the same.

Considering the small locations Leliana’s Song took place in to begin with, the market district of Denerim and the inside of an estate, not having it set in Orlais is just messed up and seems pointless even to do if you cant do it right in the first place.

If they had actually taken their time to make this small chunk of a city in Orlais as well expand on what we got story wise to make it a expansion sized thing in the lines of what Bethesda makes it would have been something worthy of replaying and it could have been something great. But again, BioWare seems to enjoy chucking quantity downloads with several short mediocre quests over quality like longer meaningful adventures.

Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I think your expectations are way too high.

Please show us you expertise and game design and I will personally admit I was wrong.

Its perfectly alright that you didn't like it. I think it bothers you that your opinion is in the minority.

I like minoritys! I am one of them! BW took the cheap way out. I only say: minimize costs-maximum profit.

How convienent that Leli is a bard and "we know, they all lie"! I suppose next will be Sten and he will make the people of "Red Cliff running for their money(life)".I'll buy that one too!

[Costin_Razvan]

Not only that, but bards apparently lie to their friends or the one they love! That certainly is believable!