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To people who saved the council - what was your justification?


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#101
adneate

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Barquiel wrote...

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians  had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans.

http://masseffect.wi...ht#Dreadnoughts

...military impotent?


Never heard any of those numbers in game, and the wiki is known for having unreliable information.

#102
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adneate wrote...

Never heard any of those numbers in game, and the wiki is known for having unreliable information.


It's written in the Codex in both games.

#103
wizardryforever

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adneate wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Right, and you have no reason to believe that it wouldn't work, other than pessimism.  Like I said, the Reapers are coming regardless.  If you stop Sovereign only to have the whole galaxy hate your guts, how is that a victory?  Just because you'll die a few years later than you would if you did what you swore to do when you became a Spectre?  You know, be the council's first and last line of defense, be that ideal, that symbol that the galaxy looks up to?  Yeah, you're right, living a few more measly years is totally worth it, just ask Sidonis.


What are the other Council races going to do to stop you? Their fleets are wiped out in the surprise attack even if you do save the council. So a bunch of militarily impotent people like you? If we're going to play the speculation game you're irresponsible decision to sacrifice Alliance warships means you don't have the firepower in your fleet to defeat the reapers and you all die anyway. But since everyone likes humanity while they're slowing being wiped out by the reapers it's okay right?


The Citadel fleet is decimated, yes.  The vast majority of those races' fleets weren't at the battle of the citadel, just like the fifth fleet is only an arm of the Alliance fleet.  Shepard can't really claim to have the galaxy's best interest at heart if he willingly sacrifices the heads of state to save the lives of some soldiers.  Soldiers sign up knowing that they could die in the line of duty, defending the very type of galactic stability that the council represents.  It seems rather ridiculous to not at least try to save the people that you are meant to protect.  And as an added bonus, now that everyone knows that Shepard did nothing to save the council when he could have, all the fleets of the Council races (the VAST bulk of the ships in Council space, especially the Turians) now think humanity is trying to seize power.  They see humanity as opportunistic, and I can't say I blame them.  If everyone hates us, that does not really help at all when the Reaper fleet arrives.  Besides, the loss of eight cruisers doesn't really equal the loss of unity that results from not making that heroic sacrifice.

#104
Barquiel

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adneate wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians  had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans.

http://masseffect.wi...ht#Dreadnoughts

...military impotent?


Never heard any of those numbers in game, and the wiki is known for having unreliable information.


codex entry: dreadnoughts

#105
adneate

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So the end result of the Renegade Paragon morality system is that Renegades automatically lose in ME3 and Paragons defeat the reapers with the super friends team. That seems doubtful from a gameplay standpoint in addition to undermining the entire point of avoiding a "Good Bad" morality system. But what do I know I apparently can't count dreadnoughts.

#106
Chuvvy

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Meta gaming.

#107
wizardryforever

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If you like this thread, you may also be interested in this one:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1816443

Pretty much the same topic.

#108
mrc390

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"+25 paragon" enough said

#109
Inquisitor Recon

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I highly doubt that Codex Entry is accurate, unless the entire Systems Alliance ship-building industry is run by morons. From ME2 it is clear the Systems Alliance fleet takes a much larger role regardless of if the Council was saved or not.

#110
earthbornFemShep

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I kept the council alive because I thought they might become allies in ME2... maybe FINALLY listen. However, it did work for me in the end.... the council races at least respect humans now (the councilors still don't... grrr......).



I killed them twice out of eight play-throughs, and each time (no matter paragon or renegade) humans were made to be the bad guys in ME2... regardless of the fact they saved the freaking Citadel--therefore the saving the freaking galaxy. Ugh. I just wanted to make sure Sovereign died (and perhaps get a new council that didn't have their heads in the sand).



So... I guess I saved them for the politics of it all... Ugh, I sound like Udina.

#111
mosor

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langelog wrote...

The Reapers aren't just a threat to humanity, they're a threat to every sentient species in the galaxy and we need to stand united. If the leaders of the council species were to die, and humans were blamed, sure we may hold more power over them, but actions such as this won't win hearts and minds. The Alliance and Humanity are honored as heros for their sacrifice after the battle, and this strengthens the trust in our species and shows we are willing to make sacrifices for the good of the galaxy. It was with this understanding that the council granted us a seat on the council. When the Reapers come, the entire galaxy will be united and ready to stand against them. Simply put, alone we fall, but united we stand!


The great thing about renegade playthoughs it's all about giving humanity the strength and resources to go at it alone and come out on top. Plenty of aliens still hate humanity even if you save the council. Joram Talid comes to mind, and he is a popular politician. Screw em. If you can't be loved, than be feared:)

#112
Milician

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Saved them on my Paragon account because i realized that a all human Council would be almost like having 3 Udinas...which it basically turned out to be in ME2 for those who didn't save them.

On my Renegade i did it because i wanted 1 more chance to tell Joker to "lose" the connection. Best part of being Renegade i think :D

#113
cbutz

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Barquiel wrote...

adneate wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians  had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans.

http://masseffect.wi...ht#Dreadnoughts

...military impotent?


Never heard any of those numbers in game, and the wiki is known for having unreliable information.


codex entry: dreadnoughts


Wait so if the Turians and Asari have so many Dreadnougts, why did they limit the number of Dreadnoughts the Alliance were allowed to have?
Edit: I know why part, it was more a rehtorical question I guess...

Modifié par cbutz, 08 juillet 2010 - 02:52 .


#114
mosor

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cbutz wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

adneate wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians  had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16 salarians, and 8 humans.

http://masseffect.wi...ht#Dreadnoughts

...military impotent?


Never heard any of those numbers in game, and the wiki is known for having unreliable information.


codex entry: dreadnoughts


Wait so if the Turians and Asari have so many Dreadnougts, why did they limit the number of Dreadnoughts the Alliance were allowed to have?
Edit: I know why part, it was more a rehtorical question I guess...


Better question, with so many turian and asari dreadnaughts, why does humanity provide most of the security on the citadel? Sometimes I think the codex can be consistantly inconsistant.

#115
Guest_Shandepared_*

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I just assume that the Council race losses were much greater than the cutscenes would lead us to believe.

#116
Nightwriter

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mosor wrote...

Better question, with so many turian and asari dreadnaughts, why does humanity provide most of the security on the citadel? Sometimes I think the codex can be consistantly inconsistant.


Maybe Citadel personnel losses were heavier than fleet personnel?

I know, it doesn't make sense to me either. I can only assume fleet size is not a direct corollary to the size of available C-Sec forces.

#117
Mentatzoee

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Most of my reasons have been said here and there, but my main one was the darkess that a human-lead council would give the future.
Without having to stay in shape because of the other councilors and having the distinction between them, humans would go back to what we actually are right now, we would be busier thinking about what's different between us (and a lot of improductive stuff) than doing actual good stuff for the universe. An only human-lead future creeps the crap out of me.

Also, gratitude (My gratitude towards them, and the gratitude all the council races will have for Shep/mankind). Also, paragon-ism (I CAN'T let all that people die).

And the "Ah yess 'Reapers'" line.

And... the Turian coucilor *blushes and hides*

Modifié par Mentatzoee, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:05 .


#118
KarmaTheAlligator

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Milician wrote...

Saved them on my Paragon account because i realized that a all human Council would be almost like having 3 Udinas...which it basically turned out to be in ME2 for those who didn't save them.

On my Renegade i did it because i wanted 1 more chance to tell Joker to "lose" the connection. Best part of being Renegade i think :D


I'm gonna go for this, and also it's on the way to Sovereign, so why not save them?

#119
NephilimNexus

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I only saved them because I was hoping for a chance announce my retirement by yelling "I TOLD YOU SO!" and then punching the Turian councilor in the face.

Sadly that option was not available in the dialog choices afterwards.

<_<