2338 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

How should ME3 start

[KingofMyself]

Miranda. Jacob. Garrus. Tali.



Don't fight it. Just accept it.

[angj57]

KingofMyself wrote...

Miranda. Jacob. Garrus. Tali.

Don't fight it. Just accept it.

Jacob seems to be the least popular character in either of the two games. The only time people even mention him is to make fun of his "the priiiiize" line. If they are going to arbitrarily pick four I really doubt they will pick him.

[pvt_java]

If Bioware was just going to throw the ME2 squad out the window completely, they wouldn't have made every one of them expendable in the suicide mission. Besides, if they do throw out the squad, I want to see the explanation by Chris Priestly.


"Sorry guys, but we're too lazy to properly make our game. So enjoy this half assed version."

[Onyx Jaguar]

Which is exactly why we should have an all new squad. New game = new characters



Many of these character's storyline relevance in the game has run their course anyway.

[Onyx Jaguar]

angj57 wrote...

KingofMyself wrote...

Miranda. Jacob. Garrus. Tali.

Don't fight it. Just accept it.

Jacob seems to be the least popular character in either of the two games. The only time people even mention him is to make fun of his "the priiiiize" line. If they are going to arbitrarily pick four I really doubt they will pick him.

Popularity doesn't matter.  Cost and positioning does.  If it was popularity you wouldn't have Oghren be the "returning Favorite"

ANd no don't try to spin it that Tali got into ME 2 from popularity.  She can't die and was not a LI.  No loose ends.  No extra baggage.

[KingDan97]

The point I think I find holds the least water is the claim that they want to avoid reusing power purposes. This is a list, of all powers, with those that do essentially the same thing being grouped together. Minor nuances in function(e.g. Domination is basically Organic AI hacking) nonwithstanding.

Concussive Shot/Throw XXXXXXYYY

Overload/Disruptor Ammo XXXXYYYY

Armor Piercing Ammo XZ

Incendiary Ammo/Inferno Grenade/Incinerate XXXXZYYYY

Fortification/Geth Shield Boost/Barrier/Tech Armor XXXZZZY

Shockwave XYY

Pull XXXXYY

Warp Ammo/Warp XXXZYY

Flashbang Grenade XZ

AI Hacking/Dominate XXXZYY

Combat Drone XXY

Slam XZ

Shadow Strike/Tactical Cloak XY

Energy Drain/Reave XXZ

Shredder Ammo XZ

Cryo Blast/Cryo Ammo XYYYYY

Neural Shock XZ

Singularity Y

Adrenaline Rush Y

Charge Y

X=Squad Mate
Y=Shepard, Normal
Z=Shepard Loyalty Power

Now, aside from only 3 of the 6 player class "signature" powers, all functions were covered at least twice, that's be once as a loyalty power and then as an unlock for Shepard. Some will cry foul because the ammo powers can be applied to the whole team and while that is a valid point, is that not just extending the function to more then one of your squad or making it so that it doesn't run out? The simple fact of the matter is that ME2 isn't a very diverse game as far as function goes. I loved it, and I think the combat works great because it doesn't pigeonhole you into a team so that's not what I'm getting at in any way, shape, or form. I'm merely stating that the "What'll you do with 3 tech experts?" quandary has an answer. The same thing we've been doing for ME2, leave them on the ship after picking our favorite.

Take the list I made and leave out all of Shepard's powers(which is foolish because anyone who would is essentially assuming that it should apply only to one class/talent combo) and you're left with 8 powers used once and 9 used more then once. The max use being a knock-back talent, ala push or concussive shot coming in with 6 and being followed by a 3 way tie of Pull/Fire/Overload all having 4 different characters that use it in some way.
I'm in no way trying to convince people that picking 2 of a potential 20(assuming there's only 4 new ones to cover the 6 basics from ME1) would be easy. But when it goes from "I've got 20 options" to "I like the way this one acts and I wanna see how this one is since he's new" it's not exactly as difficult a choice as it's made out to be.

Personally, I'd expect to see maybe 10 of the previous 15(of 16) we could've kept(that's counting the mandatory Virmire Death) throughout the last 2 games come back. Were I to guess who might stay out I'd say Wrex, since he's likely going to lead the Krogan push against the reapers. Most likely Tali, for similar reasons to Wrex, since she has the most in depth data on the matter.

Then maybe Kasumi/Zaeed. I say maybe because I get the feeling that even though they were paid to work for you that they'd figure the creds seem to follow you. I'd expect Mordin to stick around on the ship but he might feel a little world weary after the Collector's so he'll likely try to stay out of direct confrontation.

I'd think Samara's code would make her honor bound to seek out new injustices until you actually require her services again(would make room for Liara). Morinth is just driven to her next conquest due to her genes.

I'd expect Thane to go back to the Hanar, not because of his disease but because he wanted going through the Omega 4 Relay to be his last mission before he took on a more relaxed life.

Grunt MIGHT want to go back to Tuchanka but I feel that'd be a very weak story reason, given his personality type.

Now for reasons I think the 10 I didn't mention would stay!

Liara/Ashley/Kaiden: These ones seem to be pretty set in stone, they were kept out of the fighting in ME2 so they
could live to see the light of ME3, that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

Legion: They are fascinated with Shepard and seem to hold a strong desire to take out the reapers..

Jack: Unless you pissed her off she doesn't have any real reason to leave. She has more incentive to stay if you were paragon imo because you were likely on good terms and you're not with cerberus.

Garrus: He's sick of coloring inside the lines and you essentially led him to being the kind of guy he is. Not much reason for him to break form now.

Jacob: Where the hell else does he have to go? Honestly? He's got little to no back story so unless he's going to visit his dad and leave you to rot I don't see much point in his departure.

Miranda: If you took the paragon ending, she sided with you and clearly wants to see it through to the end. If you were renegade, she still didn't leave and I don't see much reason for her doing so.

As for cost concerns about making dialogue "Some people may never hear." I think that's it's a valid point on some levels. My biggest problem is that there's a lot of dialogue you never, ever heard. Unless you ran through every mission with every permutation of every possible team, you haven't heard all the dialogue in Mass Effect 2. While I'm sure there's that one guy out there who's played through every part of the game innumerable amounts of time, that is by no means the baseline. Do you consider that other dialogue wasted? If you do, then this point is lost on you. If you don't however then how does this make it any different?

99.99% of Voice Actors, like real actors are payed per project. While the role they play may vary their cost, they would be likely asking for no less if they were to come back in a cameo with 40 lines of dialogue then if they were a squaddie. Why is that? because they aren't told how integral a part they play, they get a name, and a background. Any squad mate who'd be coming back already knows their character and knows that if they're asked back it's likely going to be for a part that could be considered substantial.

Also, EA can't assume control over a Bioware project whenever they want. EA likely signs a yearly budget for Bioware, which considering the names they have gotten on board time and time again, is likely a large one. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd also say that Bioware gets a pseudo-contract with their VA's, which would make sense considering how frequently different VA's are seen throughout Bioware's games.

/GIANT POST
EDIT: Re-added spaces, it makes it longer but it's also a hundred times easier to navigate.

Modifié par KingDan97, 30 juillet 2010 - 08:46 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

As for cost concerns about making dialogue "Some people may never hear." I think that's it's a valid point on some levels. My biggest problem is that there's a lot of dialogue you never, ever heard. Unless you ran through every mission with every permutation of every possible team, you haven't heard all the dialogue in Mass Effect 2. While I'm sure there's that one guy out there who's played through every part of the game innumerable amounts of time, that is by no means the baseline. Do you consider that other dialogue wasted? If you do, then this point is lost on you. If you don't however then how does this make it any different?

99.99% of Voice Actors, like real actors are payed per project. While the role they play may vary their cost, they would be likely asking for no less if they were to come back in a cameo with 40 lines of dialogue then if they were a squaddie. Why is that? because they aren't told how integral a part they play, they get a name, and a background. Any squad mate who'd be coming back already knows their character and knows that if they're asked back it's likely going to be for a part that could be considered substantial.

Also, EA can't assume control over a Bioware project whenever they want. EA likely signs a yearly budget for Bioware, which considering the names they have gotten on board time and time again, is likely a large one. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd also say that Bioware gets a pseudo-contract with their VA's, which would make sense considering how frequently different VA's are seen throughout Bioware's games.

I figured that this point of your post was worth highlighting, but will probably be missed by many on this board.



The storyline part is all conjecture. As we have seen they can write characters whichever which way.



Also on the powers part, most of the characters are more "pieces" than power depended. However some clones do not work as well as other. I mean Jacob is pretty much a complete clone of Jack and Zaeed is a clone of Garrus. I forgot what I was trying to say

[uzivatel]

KingofMyself wrote...

Miranda. Jacob. Garrus. Tali.

Don't fight it. Just accept it.

Sounds likely.


I would not mind Kaiden/Ashley and Liara. Add some 4 new characters and we are there - if you did well (most people who are going to import probably did), you have 10 characters, same number as ME2. If you ****ed up ME2, you have 6 characters, same number as ME1.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I mean Jacob is pretty much a complete clone of Jack and Zaeed is a clone of Garrus. I forgot what I was trying to say

I thought Jacob is poor mans Grunt - both have shotgun, both have incendiary ammo, their loyalty power is basically the same.

Modifié par uzivatel, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:17 .

[pvt_java]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Which is exactly why we should have an all new squad. New game = new characters 

Tali and Garrus, and Wrex, Kaidan/Ash, and Liara would like to have a word with you.


Also Tali is exiled in my game and in my first playthrough she was also my LI in addition to being exiled. Where is she going in ME3?

I get the feeling that Bioware will add squadmates onto the default number of squaddies in ME3. Remember, this is the last installment of the Shepard Saga. Bioware (if they have any sense) will not be catering to newbies. They did that in Mass Effect 2, but how many people do you know started watching all the Lord of the Rings movies and reading the novels when they saw Return of the King? I'd imagine that we get 5 default squadmates in ME3. 4 new characters, and your ME1 LI (this is basically confirmed as I don't think the people who stayed loyal will be rewarded with cameos). Now, depending on who survived in your game, you get extra squadmates. Let's say Tali, Jacob, Miranda, Garrus, and Grunt continue on for sure - if those people survived in your game, you get them on the team in ME3 from the start. 

Modifié par pvt_java, 30 juillet 2010 - 01:28 .

[scotchtape622]

This is silly, it would be completely illogical for ME2 to be based entirely around building your team, and then getting a brand new team in ME3.

[CROAT_56]

honestly all they have to do is look at how many people got the No one left behinde achievement to see if its woth it to make the ME2 SM ME3 SM



honestly that was one of the easiest achievements i have ever recieved you have to be some kind of stupid to get your whole squad killed

[Throw_this_away]

To the OP:

Interesting view on things.  You could be right, however I think that the heavy focus on characters and their development in ME2 was so that they could be brought back in ME3 as squad mates.  In ME3 the story will be more "reaper" focused, and less character driven.  

I suspect that we will get most ME2 squaddies (at least the LI's), plus Liara, Kaiden/ash and maybe 2 other new characters.  Some of the "lesser" squaddies from ME2 may come back as DLC... or cameos.  

It will be interesting to see how they deal with things. 

[Segameister]

Just how difficult is it to kill Miranda? I wouldn't be surprised if she was a squad mate in 3. Plus, it would nicely setup conflict if she was chosen as a love interest, and Liara or Ashley is back in the mix.

Also, They could put a few of the ME2 characters in, only they'd have to re-recruited, just like Garrus and Tali in ME2. IF Bioware chooses to have several new characters, plus the ability to recruit some of the characters from ME 1 & 2, it would make for a good mix. Other characters from the frist 2 games will likely be important NPC characters if they lived.

[Segameister]

Building a new team, whether with previous or entirely new characters will allow for gamers who haven't played ME1 or 2 (there will likely be a few who missed out) to still enjoy the game as a standalone. I agree that it probably won't be so team-building focused. If the story was build where several of the characters were met during major plot points (like Legion), that would keep the story reaper driven and still allow for team building.

[sickserb]

garrus is comin back no matter what, i dont care about tali



and wrex comes back too

[CROAT_56]

Segameister wrote...

Building a new team, whether with previous or entirely new characters will allow for gamers who haven't played ME1 or 2 (there will likely be a few who missed out) to still enjoy the game as a standalone. I agree that it probably won't be so team-building focused. If the story was build where several of the characters were met during major plot points (like Legion), that would keep the story reaper driven and still allow for team building.

no need for a new team, thats what an intro is for like when the normandy blew up.  you guys ever wonder why our levels were capped at thirty, it was so we can continue from where we left off

Modifié par CROAT_56, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:17 .

[Rogue Eagle]

My money is on Miranda, Garrus, Tali (unfortunately) and maybe legion.



If you look at some characters development, it's nothing too deep and they're only there to make up numbers. Garrus was brought back for this one, and assuming he survived suicide mission, will probably be your right hand man again. Miranda will be kept on for her ties with the Illusive man. Tali will be kept because of all the people obsessing over her. And legion, either by being activated if he wasnt activated in me2, or surviving suicide mission. Because of his involvement with the geth etc.

[Spartas Husky]

All I hope is Legion, Tali Garrus, are back..... Grunt... hopefully too. the rest, I am happy that they live on ....



Would be nice to have miri back to some nice back shots would feel nice....

[Jebel Krong]

the LIs are more likely to come back, but given pretty much everyone could die in the omega IV mission, it is far more likely that we'll have at least a majority of a new squad, with perhaps 1 or 2 of the previous characters assuming they survived. a lot of me2 characters would have logically left post-me2 anyway (zaeed, jack [if not LI], kasumi, thane [if not LI], samara). the only ones that would realistically stick around would be the cerberus people (miranda/jacob [regardless of romance], mordin and grunt; & mordin is borderline.

[scotchtape622]

Just because people can die, doesn't mean they aren't likely to come back. Remember, Shepard only dies on the Collector Ship when you have less than 2 party members, because then you couldn't even play.

[lovgreno]

It made sense to have mostly new people in ME2 as it worked into the story reasonably well. However doing the same thing in ME3 would frankly be lazy and boring. It doesn't have to be that complicated, it's just a matter of removing people that died from the list of requitables in ME3. But it's reasonable to exclude three or so to make room for three new, one for each base class. That way we will have some new faces and always a decent backup option for Shepard.

You could see it as a reward for those that made the effort of keeping people alive in the two first games. That would truly mean that previous choices meant something and would also give people a reason to buy and play the first games.

I realy want Wrex, Garrus and Tali back.

[The Interloper]

I think they did say something about how ME3 will bring the party members of both games together (I think the context was that if you cheated on your LI from ME1 in ME2, there would be repercussions). That doesnt mean that they'll be party memebers, but it is something.



As far as I'm concerned, the more returning faces, the better. But yeah, it is very possible they'll just minimize the roles of all previously existing characters.