2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Please don't say it's too much time or expensive if you don't know about game development. Because judging by your comment, you don't. The reason wrex wasn't in your squad isn't because it would cost too much money, or too much time. (Actually had a good laugh at that) it was because he had to unite the clans under urdnot in order to get ready for the reapers.

David Gaider said that party members are one of the most resource-heavy aspects of these types of games. That's the reason why the DAO characters (well, except Oghren) were not in Awakenings.

[theelementslayer]

Skimmed it, Ive pretty much been arguing the same thing so its not too much different, smudboy didnt believe it either but ah well, I dont see them going anywhere.



The only ones I can see not coming back are



Zaheed-his contracts up and really he is a merc

Thane-He is dead probably



Kasumi I think might make it back, she enjoys the company of shepard, even with her only being DLC, who knows



Jack-Yup shell be back, Sheps done so much for her, really more then anyone else

Miranda-Cerberus, or Sheps, depending on the final choice

Jacob-Cerberus but people didnt like him, maybe

Garrus/Tali-Yup

Wrex-Sheps his battlemaster so yup

Legion-Maybe gather the forces of geth but a big part easily, plus he has sheps armour, he likes her

Samara-cant see her copping out, she helps innocents.

Mordin-Wheres he going, he like challenges and reapers seem pretty big of a challenge

[KainrycKarr]

It's not about story. They can write any possible reason into it to allow for them to leave. It's about what does EA/Bioware think will make them the most money. And given their assumption that new players can't handle/comprehend previously existing characters, and that we all know everyone will buy ME3 whether tali/garrus/etc is in it or not, Bioware/EA is likely to assume it will make them the most money to create all new awesome, edgy, dark characters for ME3, and satisfy the old crowd via cameos.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Barquiel wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Please don't say it's too much time or expensive if you don't know about game development. Because judging by your comment, you don't. The reason wrex wasn't in your squad isn't because it would cost too much money, or too much time. (Actually had a good laugh at that) it was because he had to unite the clans under urdnot in order to get ready for the reapers.

David Gaider said that party members are one of the most resource-heavy aspects of these types of games. That's the reason why the DAO characters (well, except Oghren) were not in Awakenings.

David gaider is a writer, not a developer. It may cost a little extra in terms of dialogue but that's it. And if Biwoare was worried about dialogue they wouldn't have made the game fully voiced and included an almost all star cast.

 -Polite

[tonnactus]

CROAT_56 wrote...

i've said it multiple times its cheaper to bring them back then it is to reduce them to cameo

Why they didnt bring wrex back? Why it should be cheaper? Only if they made contracts with the voice actors for the
last game what i doubt seriously.
But otherwise,less lines,less work less costs.

Modifié par tonnactus, 01 août 2010 - 09:17 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

KainrycKarr wrote...

It's not about story. They can write any possible reason into it to allow for them to leave. It's about what does EA/Bioware think will make them the most money. And given their assumption that new players can't handle/comprehend previously existing characters, and that we all know everyone will buy ME3 whether tali/garrus/etc is in it or not, Bioware/EA is likely to assume it will make them the most money to create all new awesome, edgy, dark characters for ME3, and satisfy the old crowd via cameos.

If thats the case, why is it "hard" for them to develop mass effect based on the multiple possible permutations of Mass 2's ending? If they were giving the squad members cameos, it wouldn't be difficult at all because the squad members Alive/Dead status is pretty much the biggest "decision" in Mass Effect 2. The decision to keep the base, to quit cerberus, etc... aren't such game changing variables that will make the development of the third game hard for Bioware in terms of differen permutations. So no, they will not create "new awesome, edgy, dark characters for ME3". We might see some new squad members, but as for getting a whole new squad, that's not going to happen. Bioware isn't going to cater to people who are going to play the final act of a trilogy, they're going to cater to the ones who have played either the 1st and 2nd, or the 2nd.

 -Polite

[chapa3]

At this point, Shepard sported (not including Virmire casuality, Jenkins, and Wilson, and including Kasumi and Zaeed) 5 squadmates from ME1 and 10 new squadmates from ME2. This is not factoring characters that appeared in previous games and may easily become squadmates. At this point, they have all the dark, edgy characters they need.

[Barquiel]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

David gaider is a writer, not a developer. It may cost a little extra in terms of dialogue but that's it. And if Biwoare was worried about dialogue they wouldn't have made the game fully voiced and included an almost all star cast.

 -Polite

That would be a lot of work, indeed... and were any of those companions unavailable it would be work you wouldn't see and wouldn't even be aware it was there and made unavailable by your choices in the main game. I appreciate the idea that this would add to replayability, but we can't make content only for people who intend to replay the game... not with party members, one of the most expensive things we can put into a game like this.

http://social.biowar...index/1315492/1

They'll have the same problem in ME3 and we know BW's solution in ME2/Awakenings.

[CROAT_56]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Post from earlier; You say that they're going the cheap way. Well judging from the comments above, they're not. Why? Because going a cheap came rout wouldn't be "hard". In fact, it would be quite easy. What would be "hard" would be scripting the game to react differently based on who died, and who didn't. Determining who's in your squad in the game, who could potentially leave, and what roles they would be given.


Exactly. I'm shocked that you read my great wall of text so fast anyway

-Polite

OMG your my hero

greate post but I think it would be cheaper to keep the squad instead of the cameo thing from earlier posts.  i am not sure I understood that part of your comment though

I agree with you on all other points 

tonnactus wrote...

CROAT_56 wrote...

i've said it multiple times its cheaper to bring them back then it is to reduce them to cameo

Why they didnt bring wrex back? Why it should be cheaper? Only if they made contracts with the voice actors for the
last game what i doubt seriously.
But otherwise,less lines,less work less costs.

here is my answer to this

CROAT_56 wrote...

it would be just plain stupid to give those VA evan a role if they were reduced to cameo.  Why you may ask, because they would be payed the same as they would for there previouse projects regardless of how many lines they recieve so to all those who assume it costs more recources to bring the team back Ill make a quick outline for ya

ME3 with new SMs and ME1 and 2 SMs cameos
Previouse VA=Same paycheck + New charechters=New paycheck and the time finding a suitable VA, The time to design and develop a new charecter, the time to write that charecter in, and the time to develop diologue for where they have been and why they didn't join earlier.= A lot of time and recources

ME3 with old SMs
Previouse VA=Same pay check+ Just add on to the charecters story that was already started = much cheaper, less time consuming and those who played ME1 and ME2 that enjoyed both games won't leave a steamy pile of poo at BW's front door.

For those who say that ME3 is meant to be a stand-alone game and would rob the new players because they don't know the backstory of the SMs then just add it into an intro or pregame trailers of who the charecters are simaler to the trailers released pre ME2.

used my post from page 11

Modifié par CROAT_56, 01 août 2010 - 09:31 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

theelementslayer wrote...

Skimmed it, Ive pretty much been arguing the same thing so its not too much different, smudboy didnt believe it either but ah well, I dont see them going anywhere.

The only ones I can see not coming back are

Zaheed-his contracts up and really he is a merc
Thane-He is dead probably

Kasumi I think might make it back, she enjoys the company of shepard, even with her only being DLC, who knows

Jack-Yup shell be back, Sheps done so much for her, really more then anyone else
Miranda-Cerberus, or Sheps, depending on the final choice
Jacob-Cerberus but people didnt like him, maybe
Garrus/Tali-Yup
Wrex-Sheps his battlemaster so yup
Legion-Maybe gather the forces of geth but a big part easily, plus he has sheps armour, he likes her
Samara-cant see her copping out, she helps innocents.
Mordin-Wheres he going, he like challenges and reapers seem pretty big of a challenge

I think you mean Grunt, not wrex

BTW, don't worry about Smudboy, or any other people who don't believe it. I'm 100% sure that the entire squad from Mass 2 isn't getting cameo status, while we get an all new squad.

I said before, that there was going to be a Liara DLC. Based on the audio files that we would get DLC with her and the shadow broker. But what happened? People didn't believe me, or the other few who knew about it also. Why? Because without a direct announcement/confirmation from Bioware they won't believe it. They don't know how to think and analyze on their own. I'm not here to prove them wrong, even though they are. I can't make anyone believe anything. What I can do is supply them with evidence that proves my point that the survivng squad will be your squad in Mass 3. And that Bioware isn't going to give the player a whole new team. Not only would that be an extremely cheap copout, but most people wouldn't even buy the game if they made a cheap move like that on the final act of the trilogy. Along with the fact that there is no reason for the squad to leave shepard.

-Polite

[tonnactus]

PoliteAssasin wrote...


Please don't say it's too much time or expensive if you don't know about game development.

But you know? So tell for what game companies did you worked ,in which position??

[Jaron Oberyn]

CROAT_56 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Post from earlier; You say that they're going the cheap way. Well judging from the comments above, they're not. Why? Because going a cheap came rout wouldn't be "hard". In fact, it would be quite easy. What would be "hard" would be scripting the game to react differently based on who died, and who didn't. Determining who's in your squad in the game, who could potentially leave, and what roles they would be given.


Exactly. I'm shocked that you read my great wall of text so fast anyway

-Polite

OMG your my hero

greate post but I think it would be cheaper to keep the squad instead of the cameo thing from earlier posts.  i am not sure I understood that part of your comment though

I agree with you on all other points 

No problem

Now that you mention it, it would be cheaper to keep the squad. Why? Because instead of wasting time to search for VA's for a new squad, they could get 1 or 2 possible VA's for fill-ins depending on how many people you have left over. But actually you probably won't even need them. Remember, in Mass 1 you didn't have to recruit Garrus or Wrex.

[Jaron Oberyn]

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...


Please don't say it's too much time or expensive if you don't know about game development.

But you know? So tell for what game companies did you worked ,in which position??

As a matter of fact I do know. Why? Because not only am I using the same exact UE3 engine they're using, I'm making a career out of Game Design. That's what I'm studying. And based on my knowledge, it would be more expensive/time consuming for them to recruit new VA's for an all new squad than to keep the ones they have right now. I'd like to know what YOU know about game development?

-Polite

[tonnactus]

theelementslayer wrote...


This. Why would they leave? Given the reasons that polite pointed out, ya they are staying.

Who said they could choose?
Cutscene:
So shepardt team make an mission(investigate reaper tech for example) .He/she split his team.

Boom. Shepardt somehow survived,maybee 1 or 2 of the members his team had too.

This squadmembers could be new ones.

Sounds lame,right? As the collector attack on the normandy and making shepardt to a second jesus revived by tech.

Modifié par tonnactus, 01 août 2010 - 09:31 .

[theelementslayer]

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...


Please don't say it's too much time or expensive if you don't know about game development.

But you know? So tell for what game companies did you worked ,in which position??

Actually I do know a guy who worked in Bioware, as QA, now in the production team and really creating new characters would be harder because instead of just keeping the old squad you have to

-Write ways to kick out the old squad, 12 new stories, thats alot
-Add another 12 squaddies and add the models, VA's and such. VA's cost money no matter whos doing it really.

Nah the old squad might be harder to program but I think the money part is about the same

[Jaron Oberyn]

Barquiel wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

David gaider is a writer, not a developer. It may cost a little extra in terms of dialogue but that's it. And if Biwoare was worried about dialogue they wouldn't have made the game fully voiced and included an almost all star cast.

 -Polite

That would be a lot of work, indeed... and were any of those companions unavailable it would be work you wouldn't see and wouldn't even be aware it was there and made unavailable by your choices in the main game. I appreciate the idea that this would add to replayability, but we can't make content only for people who intend to replay the game... not with party members, one of the most expensive things we can put into a game like this.

http://social.biowar...index/1315492/1

They'll have the same problem in ME3 and we know BW's solution in ME2/Awakenings.

The team who created DA:O and Mass Effect are two different teams. Mass Effect and DA:O are taking two different approaches. Bioware already said a while ago not to compare the two because they're not going in the same direction with it. Financing may have been an issue for DA:awakening, but in terms of Mass 2 that wasn't the issue. Ashley/Kaidan were sidelined so that they would survive. If they were in Mass 2 they could possibly die. They were meant to survive until Mass 3. If your Mass2 squad survived, why would they sideline them? They've already reached Mass 3.


-Polite

[theelementslayer]

tonnactus wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...


This. Why would they leave? Given the reasons that polite pointed out, ya they are staying.

Who said they could choose?
Cutscene:
So shepardt team make an mission(investigate reaper tech for example) .He/she split his team.

Boom. Shepardt somehow survived,maybee 1 or 2 of the members his team had too.

This squadmembers could be new ones.

Sounds lame,right? As the collector attack on the normandy and making shepardt to a second jesus revived by tech.

Nah they did that already they wouldnt do it again.

[Jaron Oberyn]

theelementslayer wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...


Please don't say it's too much time or expensive if you don't know about game development.

But you know? So tell for what game companies did you worked ,in which position??

Actually I do know a guy who worked in Bioware, as QA, now in the production team and really creating new characters would be harder because instead of just keeping the old squad you have to

-Write ways to kick out the old squad, 12 new stories, thats alot
-Add another 12 squaddies and add the models, VA's and such. VA's cost money no matter whos doing it really.

Nah the old squad might be harder to program but I think the money part is about the same

Exactly. You'd have to create the unique models of the indivudual squad members, search for the right VA's, record the new VA's, write out "credible" reasons for why 12 people are leaving, etc... It would in fact be more expensive and time consuming than keeping the same squad with either 1 or 2 new possible recruits depending on how many survived.

And if they did write off everyone and give you a new squad, Mass 3 won't be different for each individual as they keep saying. Why? Because we'd all have the same squad members. Where if they didn't it'd be unique in terms of who survived and who didn't.

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 01 août 2010 - 09:35 .

[tonnactus]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
 And based on my knowledge, it would be more expensive/time consuming for them to recruit new VA's for an all new squad than to keep the ones they have right now.

Fine.Then you could tell me why it would more expensive/time comsuming to get new voice actors.
Because that didnt make any sense.

[Jaron Oberyn]

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
 And based on my knowledge, it would be more expensive/time consuming for them to recruit new VA's for an all new squad than to keep the ones they have right now.

Fine.Then you could tell me why it would more expensive/time comsuming to get new voice actors.
Because that didnt make any sense.

How so? They'd have to pay the existing ones, like CROAT_56 said above, along with the new VA's. Lets just say it'd be another team of 12. So not only would they have to write 12 people out of the game, they'd have to write 12 people into the game, search for VA's, pay for the new VA's, along with the old VA's for the cameos, and integrate the new team into the story. It wouldn't work, and it would be too much time/expenses when they could keep the same team, the same VA's, and just advance the story further with them.

 -Polite

[theelementslayer]

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
 And based on my knowledge, it would be more expensive/time consuming for them to recruit new VA's for an all new squad than to keep the ones they have right now.

Fine.Then you could tell me why it would more expensive/time comsuming to get new voice actors.
Because that didnt make any sense.

Polite, I hope you dont mind me taking this.

It wouldnt be more expensive per actor, there would just be more VA's. Because as I stated above you would have VA's for the cameos plus the ones for the squaddies. So twice as many VA's at the same price it would still be twice the money

[tonnactus]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Exactly. You'd have to create the unique models of the indivudual squad members, search for the right VA's, record the new VA's, write out "credible" reasons for why 12 people are leaving, etc... It would in fact be more expensive and time consuming than keeping the same squad with either 1 or 2 new possible recruits depending on how many survived.

But maybee,just maybee its cheaper to make some new squadmates that all gamers would "use" instead to waste time
and money for someones who could be dead in some save files. I would also guess anyway that the Mass Effect 3 squad would be smaller just for the fact: What to do with the talents and keeping the squadmates somehow different from eachother?(they failed to make them different enough in Mass Effect 2 anyway)They wouldnt remove leveling and new talents in the new game. Add new game mechanics for 12 squadmembers from the second game ,then maybee for the virmire survivor too and liara???

Modifié par tonnactus, 01 août 2010 - 09:52 .

[CROAT_56]

theelementslayer wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
 And based on my knowledge, it would be more expensive/time consuming for them to recruit new VA's for an all new squad than to keep the ones they have right now.

Fine.Then you could tell me why it would more expensive/time comsuming to get new voice actors.
Because that didnt make any sense.

Polite, I hope you dont mind me taking this.

It wouldnt be more expensive per actor, there would just be more VA's. Because as I stated above you would have VA's for the cameos plus the ones for the squaddies. So twice as many VA's at the same price it would still be twice the money

polite, you, and I seem to be fighting an endless battle lol but honestly it is worth it.

I am not saying people are stupid but they do not understand what goes into designing, writing, and developing a game, especially the costs associated and the time it would take.

Here is one other thing if they do decide to write out the 12 and write in a new 12 this game would be in development longer then Gran Tourismo 5, which took 5-7 years so it would be a very baddecision on Bioware's part.

[tonnactus]

PoliteAssasin wrote...




How so? They'd have to pay the existing ones, like CROAT_56 said above, along with the new VA's. Lets just say it'd be another team of 12.

First I doubt that there will be another squad as big as that in the second game anyway.And then i would just expects that the costs for voice actors depends on the lines they had to say. 5 sentences like with ashley and kaidan wouldnt be really expensive. And if they keep the old ones they had to expand the amount of voice acting compared this at least at the double amount. Except they would just act as dolls and didnt have anything new to say.

Modifié par tonnactus, 01 août 2010 - 09:49 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Barquiel wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

David gaider is a writer, not a developer. It may cost a little extra in terms of dialogue but that's it. And if Biwoare was worried about dialogue they wouldn't have made the game fully voiced and included an almost all star cast.

 -Polite

That would be a lot of work, indeed... and were any of those companions unavailable it would be work you wouldn't see and wouldn't even be aware it was there and made unavailable by your choices in the main game. I appreciate the idea that this would add to replayability, but we can't make content only for people who intend to replay the game... not with party members, one of the most expensive things we can put into a game like this.

http://social.biowar...index/1315492/1

They'll have the same problem in ME3 and we know BW's solution in ME2/Awakenings.

This is correct.  However Awakening cut out most of the characters completely and I do not see that happening in regards to ME 3 or else you'd get a snowballing effect in cost.

You probably won't see most of the characters return, but a few most likely will.