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[pvt_java]

tonnactus wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

If you read through the posts, you'll see that "love interests will have full fledged roles in ME3 regardless of whether they can die or not.

-Polite

They also told something like the old love interests are important in Mass Effect 2 and that shepardt could continue that
romances."Meaningfull camoes". And what the player got at the end?

True, but the fact that you can cheat on your ME1 LI makes this situation different. Even moreso is the fact that you can stay loyal and a cutscene is shown of Shepard looking at the photo of the ME1 LI. This is foreshadowing the love triangle in ME3.

[Psython]

I agree with Ill Divo about the suspension of disbelief inherently needed to get past the rediculousness of many plot devices used in ME2. In my understanding, bioware made a concious choice to create a deus ex type of event to basically wipe out the old shepard and recreate him with a blank slate for the new game. Bioware basically attributed shepards rebirth to an expensive miracle but one grounded in the scientific mindset of the ME universe. If Bioware attempted to explain this rebirth in detail, it would no doubt have been a muddled and unsatisying explanation. How could they account for the metaphysical physical aspects or explain how shepards DNA was recovered from its presumed orbital incineration? I think they were smart to use the plot device they did rather then provide a stupid and absurd explanation for the resurrection of commander Shepard. Still, I found the whole convention rather gamey and contrived anyways. I would have prefered that they just completely changed the beginning of ME2 to something more logical. Why not just have Shepard reach an escape pod but hit his head and fall into a coma for a year or two? It seems like there was so many more options for storytelling that could be fully explained through narrative without changing the setup for the game. I do not really understand what the writers at bioware were thinking.



As for this thread, I tend to agree more with smudboy and his observations about the inherent difficulty if not infeasability of the carryover from ME2 to ME3. In my opinion, Bioware will probably cater more towards new fans then existing fans and casual gamers over the hardcore. With that said, I sincerely doubt any of the squadmember status from ME2 will have any bearing gameplay wise. For example, imagine a casual gamer carrying over a mostly dead squad roster from ME2 and being at a disadvantage. This gamer would whine about it and might be turned off. However, a gamer more comfortable and experienced with RPGs would apreciate the narrative integrity and would replay ME2 if he wanted to perfect his carryover squad instead of whining about it. With the casual (or inexperienced, younger, impatient, whatever) gamer in mind, I don't the ME2 squad mates having much input on gameplay or even plot directly. I believe that the most we can look forward to is some optional or changed dialog from ME2 characters when importing a save into ME3. Maybe there will be the "placeholder" characters to accomidate diseased squad mates. For example, this was used with wrex from ME1 on Tuchanka. My thoughts on seeing Wrex in ME2 was "ehh whatever". You get a few extra lines of dialog, a hello and thats basically it. Without wrex, you get a generic krogan warrior that is less friendly and lets you pass anyway. Having Wrex in ME2 had no effect on plot or gameplay.



I believe that the development costs of meaningful plot related carryovers would be too expensive to create and a nightmare from a writing standpoint. The more carryovers and the more games you have, the more permutations of game states you can have. The longer it goes the more convoluted and expensive it gets. What we are left with for ME3 is probably going to be a bunch of throwaway(entertaining but not related to game narrative or plot) cameos that take development away from the main story of the game. I'm guessing that dead characters will probably be replaced by some generic version for the cameo. Essentially, what we are left with is a bunch of fluff that adds nothing to the game and probably wont even add extra understanding of the characters. I guess some people will get a kick out of running into old characters but for me it just seems like a waste of development.



I agree with smudboy that the writing for ME2's plot is generally dumb. It seems more like an exposition and set up for the first of a trilogy then a middle part. Theres too much focus on squadmates and not enough on plot. If feels like a TV series with a bunch of random subplots and a few episodes that relate to an overarching story. The beggining of ME2 is one major contrivance that seems like it could have been done better. It seems like bioware sort of shot itself in the foot for ME3. Most likely, the outcome of ME2 will have little effect on ME3 and people will be disapointed. Another option is to kill off shepard again and start from scratch like in ME2 but this would be rediculous. The third option is to do the carryover justice and acually weave the ME2 characters into the narrative and actually do it justice. However, this seems unfeasibly expensive and hard to develop (having to record VA for ME2 squadmates as well as new characters assuming ME2 characters died in the suicide mission). What I think should be done is to only bring back a few of the characters from ME2. For example, leave out Thane by having him go live with his son or something. They could only bring back the characters that would have the most impact on plot (like legion). Still, if legion is dead in your game then what the hell can replace him? Maybe the carryover saves are a mistake if they cant be done justice at the current time?



Well I have spend enough time thinking about this. After all, its just a game right? I'm sure ME3 will work out ok; if anyone can make it work its bioware. I just want to know how shepard will stop the reapers and save the galaxy!!!

[We Tigers]

While you all are comparing your bona fides, would someone take a look at this post of mine from yesterday? This is the fundamental confusion I have on the issue of what implementations require more resources.



http://social.biowar...2255/24#3326553

[KingDan97]

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I'll go ahead and engage you on this last sentence. Even with the Bioware writer saying Mass 1 and 2 LI's will have a full fledged role in the 3rd game regardless of if they can die or not, your still on this? And also, please do share some of your work. I'm grabbing a few things I did back in '08. So you do the same. 

-Polite

What's to engage on?  A cameo is simple.  A fully fledged squadmate is complex.  A placeholder would be somewhere in between.

Cameos plus 12 new squadmates who would need entirely new models made for them would be more expensive then 4 new squadmates plus the old ones whose models would need simple touch-ups.

[smudboy]

theelementslayer wrote...
Ummmm k? Polite doesnt say he has authority he says experience. Im new to the feild, as I said still a university kid but I do believe that polite is experienced in this feild. Ive talked to other game designers, most notably from Ubisoft Montreal and they know their stuff. Not because they have authority but instead experience.

Do you know what an argument of authority is?  It doesn't matter if we're PhD's in ludology and have made 50 games.  It's the argument that matters.

The armour of ash was the same from ME1 to ME2, and their faces looked mightily similar. They were tweaked yes, started from scratch, I doubt it. Plus they went through a engine change that time around, this time they wont be.

I'm quite sure 3D modeling doesn't involve tweaking the Unreal engine.

Can you show me examples?  Because I thought the armor they wore was quite different from ME1 to ME2, hell, by color alone.

Plus why wouldnt they keep the same armour, canadians still use the same "woodland" BDU camo pattern they used 10 years ago. The army doesnt change much or quickly.

I'm saying they'd make new assets.  Sure, they'd base their new modeling and animation rigs on the same stuff.  I wouldn't expect any decent modeler or animator to create a hand from scratch.  But ultimately they're doing the same work.

To say they're using the same characters means very little.  They'll still have to redraw them, storyboard, model, animate, etc.

Now if they're just flat out copying/pasting, then yeah, of course there's barely any work involved.

Yes, no arguments there but what your suggesting is take survivors as cameos and add new squadmates, a whole new team. So lets do some math together

ME2 characters used in ME3

12 squaddies at x amount per
=12x$

now lets say they get paid quarter as much for a cameo apperance and we have a whole new squad of 12

12 Cameos at 1/4x=3x
12 Squaddies at x=12x

15x-More money.

Plus as polite pointed out. Why do you need 2 people to survive when only one pulls you up. There is no possible way to only have one survive. Why, especially when 2 squaddies make up a full team of 3.

You're assuming ME3 will have 12 squadmates.

[Jaron Oberyn]

 Not to steer this off topic, but only for Smudboy. Here's some work from 2008.
http://i257.photobuc...hot_00001-2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...hot_00000-2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...hot_00006-2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...nshot_00017.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...hot_00002-2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...hot_00001-3.jpg
http://i257.photobuc.../Downfall_1.jpg
http://i257.photobuc.../Downfall_2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc.../Downfall_3.jpg
http://i257.photobuc.../Downfall_4.jpg
http://i257.photobuc.../Downfall_5.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...y_08_BEJ_B7.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...08_BEJ_B7_2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...lony_08_BEJ.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...ny_08_BEJ_2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...ny_08_BEJ_4.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...ny_08_BEJ_5.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...EpicJon/AS3.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...EpicJon/AS2.jpg
http://i257.photobuc...EpicJon/AS1.jpg
And that's only from '08. That's not even the game development content I've been working on for the past 6 years, but some stuff I did on my free time. So show us your work, with your infinite amount of knowledge in regards to game development. And again, so what have you to say to the image I posted where a Bioware writer was posting a lot of comments on how Mass 3 is going to roll out? Expecially what he said about the Mass 1 and 2 LI's will get full fledged roles regardless of if they can die or not? Or how they considered writing the characters cameos, but are moving towards actually keeping them. How the game will be like DA:O in terms of securing alliances, and according to him they will still have legion as part of your squad, and were trying to get wrex to be part of it also. So what now?


-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I'll go ahead and engage you on this last sentence. Even with the Bioware writer saying Mass 1 and 2 LI's will have a full fledged role in the 3rd game regardless of if they can die or not, your still on this? And also, please do share some of your work. I'm grabbing a few things I did back in '08. So you do the same. 

-Polite

What's to engage on?  A cameo is simple.  A fully fledged squadmate is complex.  A placeholder would be somewhere in between.

Are you that naive? Even with a writer from Bioware stating this, you still believe that either they can't or won't? What's left after Mass 3? Absolutely nothing. So they'll give your LI a small role, instead of a "full fledged" one like they said in the link I posted, and we'll just have to do with that? Kid...

-Polite

[smudboy]

KingDan97 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I'll go ahead and engage you on this last sentence. Even with the Bioware writer saying Mass 1 and 2 LI's will have a full fledged role in the 3rd game regardless of if they can die or not, your still on this? And also, please do share some of your work. I'm grabbing a few things I did back in '08. So you do the same. 

-Polite

What's to engage on?  A cameo is simple.  A fully fledged squadmate is complex.  A placeholder would be somewhere in between.

Cameos plus 12 new squadmates who would need entirely new models made for them would be more expensive then 4 new squadmates plus the old ones whose models would need simple touch-ups.

And 12 cameos plus 4 new squadmates and 2 placeholders would cost less than that.  So what are we arguing here?

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...
Ummmm k? Polite doesnt say he has authority he says experience. Im new to the feild, as I said still a university kid but I do believe that polite is experienced in this feild. Ive talked to other game designers, most notably from Ubisoft Montreal and they know their stuff. Not because they have authority but instead experience.

Do you know what an argument of authority is?  It doesn't matter if we're PhD's in ludology and have made 50 games.  It's the argument that matters.

The armour of ash was the same from ME1 to ME2, and their faces looked mightily similar. They were tweaked yes, started from scratch, I doubt it. Plus they went through a engine change that time around, this time they wont be.

I'm quite sure 3D modeling doesn't involve tweaking the Unreal engine.

Can you show me examples?  Because I thought the armor they wore was quite different from ME1 to ME2, hell, by color alone.

Plus why wouldnt they keep the same armour, canadians still use the same "woodland" BDU camo pattern they used 10 years ago. The army doesnt change much or quickly.

I'm saying they'd make new assets.  Sure, they'd base their new modeling and animation rigs on the same stuff.  I wouldn't expect any decent modeler or animator to create a hand from scratch.  But ultimately they're doing the same work.

To say they're using the same characters means very little.  They'll still have to redraw them, storyboard, model, animate, etc.

Now if they're just flat out copying/pasting, then yeah, of course there's barely any work involved.

Yes, no arguments there but what your suggesting is take survivors as cameos and add new squadmates, a whole new team. So lets do some math together

ME2 characters used in ME3

12 squaddies at x amount per
=12x$

now lets say they get paid quarter as much for a cameo apperance and we have a whole new squad of 12

12 Cameos at 1/4x=3x
12 Squaddies at x=12x

15x-More money.

Plus as polite pointed out. Why do you need 2 people to survive when only one pulls you up. There is no possible way to only have one survive. Why, especially when 2 squaddies make up a full team of 3.

You're assuming ME3 will have 12 squadmates.

To further prove your ignorance, TES is right. They didn't start over from scratch. There's nothing wrong with the model assets from Mass 1. If you look, and use a little brain power here - just a little - you'd see that they have the exact same head models, and that almost all of the NPC's who have armor are using Mass 1 models with new materials on it. Of course they changed the materials setup because in the first game, the way they had it rigged caused the texture pop-ins. But if you seriously believe that they remodeled everything, then I say your seriously out of your mind. You have no idea what your talking about, stop now before you go too far. 

-Polite

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I'll go ahead and engage you on this last sentence. Even with the Bioware writer saying Mass 1 and 2 LI's will have a full fledged role in the 3rd game regardless of if they can die or not, your still on this? And also, please do share some of your work. I'm grabbing a few things I did back in '08. So you do the same. 

-Polite

What's to engage on?  A cameo is simple.  A fully fledged squadmate is complex.  A placeholder would be somewhere in between.

Are you that naive? Even with a writer from Bioware stating this, you still believe that either they can't or won't? What's left after Mass 3? Absolutely nothing. So they'll give your LI a small role, instead of a "full fledged" one like they said in the link I posted, and we'll just have to do with that? Kid...

-Polite

Well wouldn't that LI be a...LI placeholder then?  Considering you know I've worked with UT 2K3/4, how would I be younger than you, kid?

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
I'll go ahead and engage you on this last sentence. Even with the Bioware writer saying Mass 1 and 2 LI's will have a full fledged role in the 3rd game regardless of if they can die or not, your still on this? And also, please do share some of your work. I'm grabbing a few things I did back in '08. So you do the same. 

-Polite

What's to engage on?  A cameo is simple.  A fully fledged squadmate is complex.  A placeholder would be somewhere in between.

Cameos plus 12 new squadmates who would need entirely new models made for them would be more expensive then 4 new squadmates plus the old ones whose models would need simple touch-ups.

And 12 cameos plus 4 new squadmates and 2 placeholders would cost less than that.  So what are we arguing here?

Based on the comments by the Bioware dev, they're thinking of keeping the Mass 2 squad, but only on the ship. Giving them roles like Kelly and Joker, just hanging out on the ship. According to him they're keeping Mordin as long as he's alive. Also according to the dev, the only ones who are guaranteed are the Mass 1 and 2 LI's. That's it.

-Polite

[Fiery Phoenix]

Those are pretty impressive, Polite. Seriously, very nice stuff and keep up the good work.

[theelementslayer]

smudboy wrote...
I'm quite sure 3D modeling doesn't involve tweaking the Unreal engine.

Can you show me examples?  Because I thought the armor they wore was quite different from ME1 to ME2, hell, by color alone.

I meant tweaking the models. Now as for armours, here you go

Ash-ME1. This was her main cutscene armour



ME2-Again her armour



Not an exact match but not too much difference.

I'm saying they'd make new assets.  Sure, they'd base their new modeling and animation rigs on the same stuff.  I wouldn't expect any decent modeler or animator to create a hand from scratch.  But ultimately they're doing the same work.

To say they're using the same characters means very little.  They'll still have to redraw them, storyboard, model, animate, etc.

Now if they're just flat out copying/pasting, then yeah, of course there's barely any work involved.

Storyboard, kinda. Youll have to storyboard any character really. As for a background, no becuase they have it already, and Im pretty sure that aint gonna change.

Model-Maybe a few tweaks, but why change it. Its the same person, they dont go from looking like sarah palin to jennifer aniston just because the devs have nothing to do. No same person, usually a very similar model, why start from scratch?

Animate-Maybe, but the IKs are already there plus the walk cycle I dont think would change. Its an NPC.

Why redraw them, again same character. doesnt make sense to go back to the drawing board.

You're assuming ME3 will have 12 squadmates.

Your also assuming there will be less. regardless Im assuming they make 1/4 of a squaddie. The math is still there though

EDIT: Added face shot because Im sure youll ask for it. ME1 Ash w/face shot (now that sounds dirty:lol:)

Modifié par theelementslayer, 03 août 2010 - 07:41 .

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
To further prove your ignorance, TES is right. They didn't start over from scratch. There's nothing wrong with the model assets from Mass 1. If you look, and use a little brain power here - just a little - you'd see that they have the exact same head models, and that almost all of the NPC's who have armor are using Mass 1 models with new materials on it. Of course they changed the materials setup because in the first game, the way they had it rigged caused the texture pop-ins. But if you seriously believe that they remodeled everything, then I say your seriously out of your mind. You have no idea what your talking about, stop now before you go too far. 

-Polite

Why not just show me the comparison?

Wait, the material setup?  The "texture popping" had to do with the engine loading the textures, I thought. Tell me, how did they fix the texture popping with the materials setup?

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Based on the comments by the Bioware dev, they're thinking of keeping the Mass 2 squad, but only on the ship. Giving them roles like Kelly and Joker, just hanging out on the ship. According to him they're keeping Mordin as long as he's alive. Also according to the dev, the only ones who are guaranteed are the Mass 1 and 2 LI's. That's it.
-Polite

Okay so...that means what, they're not all going to be squadmates?

And the love interests are all...placeholders?

[Jaron Oberyn]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Those are pretty impressive, Polite. Seriously, very nice stuff and keep up the good work.

Thanks Fiery. That was a collection of old content. I'd love to show the stuff I'm working on now with the new engine, because it pretty much puts all of those pictures to shame. Makes them look crappy. But thanks for the compliment.  (Smudboy has yet to show any of his work)

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Based on the comments by the Bioware dev, they're thinking of keeping the Mass 2 squad, but only on the ship. Giving them roles like Kelly and Joker, just hanging out on the ship. According to him they're keeping Mordin as long as he's alive. Also according to the dev, the only ones who are guaranteed are the Mass 1 and 2 LI's. That's it.
-Polite

Okay so...that means what, they're not all going to be squadmates?

And the love interests are all...placeholders?

This was all posted in March, and the writer specifically said that they're winging the whole thing. In fact he even said everything from Mass 1 and 2 has been a result of winging it. He said that they haven't made a decision on anything yet, but at first they were going to keep the squadmates out, like you said, because it would be too much work. So they though of writing them off. Then they considered fully writing them into the story. Again, he said there hasn't been a decision, but this was back in March. He did say however that if you have an LI from either Mass 1 or 2, that they would get "full fledged" roles regardless of whether they can die or not. So Miranda, Jacob, Garrus,Tali, and Jack are all going to get full fledged roles depending on their LI status. He pretty much said that Thane would die. 

Now in terms of the squadmates, they were thinking of sticking them to the ship at certain quarters, like they did to Kelly and just giving them dialogue. So you could say "cameo" but it's not like you wouldn't have them with you. 

-Polite

[Fiery Phoenix]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Those are pretty impressive, Polite. Seriously, very nice stuff and keep up the good work.

Thanks Fiery. That was a collection of old content. I'd love to show the stuff I'm working on now with the new engine, because it pretty much puts all of those pictures to shame. Makes them look crappy. But thanks for the compliment.  (Smudboy has yet to show any of his work)

-Polite

Feel free to PM me more if you wish. I'm a beginner computer science student and totally interested in these things.

[smudboy]

theelementslayer wrote...
I meant tweaking the models. Now as for armours, here you go

Ash-ME1. This was her main cutscene armour



ME2-Again her armour

Not an exact match but bit too much difference.

Sorry your first image didn't work.

But let me summarize: you're saying the models and textures are...different?

Storyboard, kinda. Youll have to storyboard any character really. As for a background, no becuase they have it already, and Im pretty sure that aint gonna change.

Okay so they'd storyboard everyone regardless, gotcha.

I'd imagine there'd be more conceptual sketches done when creating a new character, but I think that'd be the same for even existing characters, too, right?  I mean they wouldn't have to change their dimensions much, but would they change the style of clothing, for example?

Model-Maybe a few tweaks, but why change it. Its the same person, they dont go from looking like sarah palin to jennifer aniston just because the devs have nothing to do. No same person, usually a very similar model, why start from scratch?

Well are the models the same from ME1?  If they're just tweaking models, can't you say the same thing for new characters?

Animate-Maybe, but the IKs are already there plus the walk cycle I dont think would change. Its an NPC.

Now that I think of it, all the animations are shared among squadmates, unless there's a new character that isn't a biped.

Why redraw them, again same character. doesnt make sense to go back to the drawing board.

Well we're talking more than just modeling.  Conceptualizing a scene still requires storyboarding.

You're assuming ME3 will have 12 squadmates.

Your also assuming there will be less. regardless Im assuming they make 1/4 of a squaddie. The math is still there though
EDIT: Added face shot because Im sure youll ask for it. ME1 Ash w/face shot (now that sounds dirty:lol:)

Well, less assets are easier to do than more, right?  Considering the focus is plot, as opposed to having a frame story of character vignettes, why would we need 12, or even more?

Yes but your math is based on having a team of twelve.

I too, think they'll bring back 4.8 (if we take out DLC, then 4) squadmates and have LI's in a variety of potential roles placeholder or cameo roles.

Modifié par smudboy, 03 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
To further prove your ignorance, TES is right. They didn't start over from scratch. There's nothing wrong with the model assets from Mass 1. If you look, and use a little brain power here - just a little - you'd see that they have the exact same head models, and that almost all of the NPC's who have armor are using Mass 1 models with new materials on it. Of course they changed the materials setup because in the first game, the way they had it rigged caused the texture pop-ins. But if you seriously believe that they remodeled everything, then I say your seriously out of your mind. You have no idea what your talking about, stop now before you go too far. 

-Polite

Why not just show me the comparison?

Wait, the material setup?  The "texture popping" had to do with the engine loading the textures, I thought. Tell me, how did they fix the texture popping with the materials setup?

Part of it had to do with the engine, yes, but also another part of it was how they set up the materials. Remember, Mass 1 was Bioware's first game on UE3. In regards to the comparison, TES posted it above. His Mass 2 image of Williams showed up, but I don't see the Mass 1 armor shot so I can't tell you what your looking at. But in Mass 2 she's wearing the Heavy Phoenix armor. In Mass 1 she had Medium in the beginning, but if you equip the Heavy Phoenix armor it'd be just like Mass 2. There were only about 3-4 armor models in Mass 1. Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, and the one with the shoulder pad on the left, or was it right? Anyways, they used a bunch of different materials on those same armor meshes. It was a simple as that. For mass 2, they did the same - they used the same light, medium, and heavy armor models and just applied new materials to them.

-Polite

[theelementslayer]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Those are pretty impressive, Polite. Seriously, very nice stuff and keep up the good work.

Thanks Fiery. That was a collection of old content. I'd love to show the stuff I'm working on now with the new engine, because it pretty much puts all of those pictures to shame. Makes them look crappy. But thanks for the compliment.  (Smudboy has yet to show any of his work)

-Polite

Feel free to PM me more if you wish. I'm a beginner computer science student and totally interested in these things.

This^ but switch out computer science to 3d animation and game design:wizard:

[JBean]

Wow. You guys are still arguing. Polite, no offense, but I've already expressed my opinion on you two and now you're just continuously giving him the attention he needs. he doesn't know how to debate and you can't debate with that kind of individual - so why are you? it leads...nowhere...

[Jaron Oberyn]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Those are pretty impressive, Polite. Seriously, very nice stuff and keep up the good work.

Thanks Fiery. That was a collection of old content. I'd love to show the stuff I'm working on now with the new engine, because it pretty much puts all of those pictures to shame. Makes them look crappy. But thanks for the compliment.  (Smudboy has yet to show any of his work)

-Polite

Feel free to PM me more if you wish. I'm a beginner computer science student and totally interested in these things.

If I dig up any more pics I'll be sure to send them your way. I have lots more, but not everything was uploaded to Photobucket. I lost my old PC and lost all of my files.  But if I find more, I'll send them to you.  

-Polite

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
This was all posted in March, and the writer specifically said that they're winging the whole thing. In fact he even said everything from Mass 1 and 2 has been a result of winging it. He said that they haven't made a decision on anything yet, but at first they were going to keep the squadmates out, like you said, because it would be too much work. So they though of writing them off. Then they considered fully writing them into the story. Again, he said there hasn't been a decision, but this was back in March. He did say however that if you have an LI from either Mass 1 or 2, that they would get "full fledged" roles regardless of whether they can die or not. So Miranda, Jacob, Garrus,Tali, and Jack are all going to get full fledged roles depending on their LI status. He pretty much said that Thane would die. 

Okay so that makes the LI's:
1. Liara
2. Ash (same as Kaidan?)
3. Kaidan
4. Miranda
5. Jacob
6. Garrus
7. Tali
8. Jack
9. Thane (for the purposes of the argument)

So we've got 9 LI's to be ...squadmate placeholders, gotcha.

I'm assuming it'll be standard development, like, after plot point #n, you'll get exposition/new character development from them. So for all intents and purposes, considering the work involved, you'll get a full fledged squadmate, but just one per LI import?

However, if they're not LI's, then they could just be normal squadmates?

Now in terms of the squadmates, they were thinking of sticking them to the ship at certain quarters, like they did to Kelly and just giving them dialogue. So you could say "cameo" but it's not like you wouldn't have them with you. 

-Polite

Right, but they're not ME3 squadmates.  They just have big, or plot-developed cameos, and may have plot involved stories to develop.

So we've no idea what the non-LI's ME2 squadmates can be ME3 squadmates, just that the LI's can.

[Jaron Oberyn]

theelementslayer wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Those are pretty impressive, Polite. Seriously, very nice stuff and keep up the good work.

Thanks Fiery. That was a collection of old content. I'd love to show the stuff I'm working on now with the new engine, because it pretty much puts all of those pictures to shame. Makes them look crappy. But thanks for the compliment.  (Smudboy has yet to show any of his work)

-Polite

Feel free to PM me more if you wish. I'm a beginner computer science student and totally interested in these things.

This^ but switch out computer science to 3d animation and game design:wizard:

Same to you. If I find more, I'd be happy to share. TES has also pm'd me regarding some questions of game design. If you wish to do the same, I'll be more than happy to help you out.

JBean wrote...

Wow. You guys are still arguing. Polite, no offense, but I've already expressed my opinion on you two and now you're just continuously giving him the attention he needs. he doesn't know how to debate and you can't debate with that kind of individual - so why are you? it leads...nowhere...

I gave him a breather for a while and refused to engage him in conversation, because I figured that it was in fact going no where. With new information to support my claims, I gave him another chance. Only time will tell. I still don't see why he'll come to admit. I admitted that I could have been wrong in terms of the whole squad coming back, based on the Bioware writers comments, but the writer said that they were considering bringing them back, instead of just only the Mass 1 and 2 LI's. But it seems like Smudboy doesn't have the maturity to say he was wrong. I admit I could be wrong, in terms of the whole Mass 2 squad returning as squaddies, but at least I know for sure that for example If  I have Miranda as my LI she will get a "full fledged" role in the 3rd game, regardless of the fact that she could die.

-Polite