2338 réponses à ce sujet

[theelementslayer]

Hey polite and smud, to see my first image, just drag the link into a new tab, the tags are right, dunno whats going on with the forum

smudboy wrote...

Sorry your first image didn't work.

But let me summarize: you're saying the models and textures are...different?

Yes different, but the concept, the meat and potatoes of the model and textures are the same. Its like having steak baste with your stake and then changing over to BBQ sauce. Not a whole new steak.

Okay so they'd storyboard everyone regardless, gotcha.

I'd imagine there'd be more conceptual sketches done when creating a new character, but I think that'd be the same for even existing characters, too, right?  I mean they wouldn't have to change their dimensions much, but would they change the style of clothing, for example?

Not near as many for a new character. I had a teacher who worked at dreamworks animation and the concepts for say Shrek vs. the parents in Shrek 2. He told us that they spent less time on shrek-The main character- then they did with the father or the fairy godmother. Why? Because he was a returning asset.

Well are the models the same from ME1?  If they're just tweaking models, can't you say the same thing for new characters?

Alright Ill start out with a preexisting character, say Liara and you can make a full new one. Ill be done sooner becuase again, the basics are there, Im just changing a bit around.

Now that I think of it, all the animations are shared among squadmates, unless there's a new character that isn't a biped.

Hardly-ever seen jack walk into combat vs Miranda. Theres a difference. Same as Jacob vs Samara, or any of them. The characters have unique walk cycles.

Well we're talking more than just modeling.  Conceptualizing a scene still requires storyboarding.

We are talking about characters, not scenes here

Well, less assets are easier to do than more, right?  Considering the focus is plot, as opposed to having a frame story of character vignettes, why would we need 12, or even more?

Yes but your math is based on having a team of twelve.

I too, think they'll bring back 4.8 (if we take out DLC, then 4) squadmates and have LI's in a variety of potential roles placeholder or cameo roles.

Regardless, adding both together is still more expensive. Especially with a fully funtional dialouge wheel like Kellys. Because thats where they talk, outside of combat

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
This was all posted in March, and the writer specifically said that they're winging the whole thing. In fact he even said everything from Mass 1 and 2 has been a result of winging it. He said that they haven't made a decision on anything yet, but at first they were going to keep the squadmates out, like you said, because it would be too much work. So they though of writing them off. Then they considered fully writing them into the story. Again, he said there hasn't been a decision, but this was back in March. He did say however that if you have an LI from either Mass 1 or 2, that they would get "full fledged" roles regardless of whether they can die or not. So Miranda, Jacob, Garrus,Tali, and Jack are all going to get full fledged roles depending on their LI status. He pretty much said that Thane would die. 

Okay so that makes the LI's:
1. Liara
2. Ash (same as Kaidan?)
3. Kaidan
4. Miranda
5. Jacob
6. Garrus
7. Tali
8. Jack
9. Thane (for the purposes of the argument)

So we've got 9 LI's to be ...squadmate placeholders, gotcha.

I'm assuming it'll be standard development, like, after plot point #n, you'll get exposition/new character development from them. So for all intents and purposes, considering the work involved, you'll get a full fledged squadmate, but just one per LI import?

However, if they're not LI's, then they could just be normal squadmates?

Now in terms of the squadmates, they were thinking of sticking them to the ship at certain quarters, like they did to Kelly and just giving them dialogue. So you could say "cameo" but it's not like you wouldn't have them with you. 

-Polite

Right, but they're not ME3 squadmates.  They just have big, or plot-developed cameos, and may have plot involved stories to develop.

So we've no idea what the non-LI's ME2 squadmates can be ME3 squadmates, just that the LI's can.

Well exactly. I'm glad we could agree on this. But the writer said that they were considering making the squad static on the ship, like Kelly, Joker, Rupert, etc... or making them squadmates. However he also says that they're making Legion a squaddie, and were thinking of making Wrex one also. Another thing he points out is that they could send Grunt to his homeworld, which would result in him being with Wrex, or keep him with his Battlemaster. He goes on to say that the latter would be better. So we know for a fact at least that the Mass 1 or 2 LI's, depending on who your LI is, will be given a full role in the third game. (Bioware kind of hinted at this before, but now it's clear its the same for a Mass 2 LI even though they can die) 

So that would minimize the potential characters Bioware would have to give full squad status to, depending on the playthrough and who the LI is. So that'd be 6, instead of 12 if they end up going the route of keeping the remaining members of the squad on the ship as NPC's.

-Polite

[Wraith_of_Dawn]

The argument that it will be entirely new because not everybody will hear has one flaw in my opinion: The dialog (spelling?) wheel. Why? Every play-through, you only have the choice to listen to about 1/3 or less depending on Paragon/Renegade interruptions & whether or not you investigate.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Wraith_of_Dawn wrote...

The argument that it will be entirely new because not everybody will hear has one flaw in my opinion: The dialog (spelling?) wheel. Why? Every play-through, you only have the choice to listen to about 1/3 or less depending on Paragon/Renegade interruptions & whether or not you investigate.

Exactly. This is going to happen since the a certain Mass 1 or 2 LI will fill a certain role on each playthrough. And I'm pretty sure it won't be the exact same dialogue for each LI as they have different personalities.

-Polite

[smudboy]

theelementslayer wrote...
Yes different, but the concept, the meat and potatoes of the model and textures are the same. Its like having steak baste with your stake and then changing over to BBQ sauce. Not a whole new steak.

And we're referring to the whole model, not just the head?

Not near as many for a new character. I had a teacher who worked at dreamworks animation and the concepts for say Shrek vs. the parents in Shrek 2. He told us that they spent less time on shrek-The main character- then they did with the father or the fairy godmother. Why? Because he was a returning asset.

Yes I understand that.

But aren't the ME characters all heads stuck on bodies?  Obviously it's less work to put Liara on a new body, then let's say Wrex on a Krogan body.  But wouldn't one only be changing the body then, since the head already exists and isn't being changed?

Alright Ill start out with a preexisting character, say Liara and you can make a full new one. Ill be done sooner becuase again, the basics are there, Im just changing a bit around.

Right, the Liara head we already have, but the new character we have to make a new head (at least.  Who knows how they're dealing with armor this time round.)

Hardly-ever seen jack walk into combat vs Miranda. Theres a difference. Same as Jacob vs Samara, or any of them. The characters have unique walk cycles.

Really?  I didn't notice a difference.  I know the idle animations were all the same.

We are talking about characters, not scenes here

Maybe that's the focus, but I'm interested in all assets and time to completion.

Regardless, adding both together is still more expensive. Especially with a fully funtional dialouge wheel like Kellys. Because thats where they talk, outside of combat

Well obviously including new characters and old ones is more expensive, but we know they're doing both.  The question is how they handling that?  I'm using the 2/5 rule from ME1->ME2, and none of those were LI's.

It's pretty obvious they'll bring back LI's, and as Polite is theorizing, they'll all be squadmates.  Now that sounds like a great thing, but what value would one LI be on the narrative over another?  Therefore, the LI's would exist as a placeholder, and the LI/relationship dialog would develop, not really anything of great plot value (because the point is romance, not Stop the Reapers through kissing, or something weird.)

[KingDan97]

Can we stop referring to the 4chan posts as though they're facts? 4Chan should be taken with a gracious helping of salt at best. It's one of the largest rumor mills in the world. I remember there was a period where there was a man claiming to by one of the G8 world leaders, detailing extremely detailed plans surrounding ACTA and how we'd all lose any semblance of freee speech and how the US, Canada and Mexico would form the AU(American Union) and that he'd cough four times during a publicized G8 press conference to prove who he was. I didn't trust that either so I have no more belief in someone just because they posted on /v/ instead of /new/. We're taking a man at face value who deliberately posted on an anonymous site. He didn't go in depth into anything in a way that is verifiable. He didn't know how their DLC worked and he didn't even mention anything we hadn't worked out by March. He said the stuff about the Liara DLC, the basic presmise of which we'd already figured out from the hidden audio files. Then he just made a ton of stuff up that won't be verifiable until it's released. It's all too general to pick anything specific out of it until Liara comes out or ME3, by which point he'll have trolled the entire forum into thinking that anything mentioned within that is an "Official Bioware Quote"

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...
Yes different, but the concept, the meat and potatoes of the model and textures are the same. Its like having steak baste with your stake and then changing over to BBQ sauce. Not a whole new steak.

And we're referring to the whole model, not just the head?

Not near as many for a new character. I had a teacher who worked at dreamworks animation and the concepts for say Shrek vs. the parents in Shrek 2. He told us that they spent less time on shrek-The main character- then they did with the father or the fairy godmother. Why? Because he was a returning asset.

Yes I understand that.

But aren't the ME characters all heads stuck on bodies?  Obviously it's less work to put Liara on a new body, then let's say Wrex on a Krogan body.  But wouldn't one only be changing the body then, since the head already exists and isn't being changed?

Alright Ill start out with a preexisting character, say Liara and you can make a full new one. Ill be done sooner becuase again, the basics are there, Im just changing a bit around.

Right, the Liara head we already have, but the new character we have to make a new head (at least.  Who knows how they're dealing with armor this time round.)

Hardly-ever seen jack walk into combat vs Miranda. Theres a difference. Same as Jacob vs Samara, or any of them. The characters have unique walk cycles.

Really?  I didn't notice a difference.  I know the idle animations were all the same.

We are talking about characters, not scenes here

Maybe that's the focus, but I'm interested in all assets and time to completion.

Regardless, adding both together is still more expensive. Especially with a fully funtional dialouge wheel like Kellys. Because thats where they talk, outside of combat

Well obviously including new characters and old ones is more expensive, but we know they're doing both.  The question is how they handling that?  I'm using the 2/5 rule from ME1->ME2, and none of those were LI's.

It's pretty obvious they'll bring back LI's, and as Polite is theorizing, they'll all be squadmates.  Now that sounds like a great thing, but what value would one LI be on the narrative over another?  Therefore, the LI's would exist as a placeholder, and the LI/relationship dialog would develop, not really anything of great plot value (because the point is romance, not Stop the Reapers through kissing, or something weird.)

The walk animations may be unique, I haven't noticed, but I know all of the other ones are the same. They reuse the same animations for every person in the game that walks on 2 legs. 

As for the heads, the heads are separate from the actual body. Even for say Miranda, or Jacob. Even though they have unique bodies, the heads weren't attached. 

Now for the LI thing, it ins't be theorizing, Im simply restating stuff one of the writers who's working on the game said. He said that the LI's will get full fledged squad status. He said that Mass 3 will be about securing alliances, like DA:O, and that the decisions from the first and second game will affect that. He gave the example of getting Rachni and Krogan fleets based on if Wrex is alive, and the Rachni queen is alive. He also stated how it would be difficult to do it with the Quarians if Tali got exiled, and so forth. According to him, we'll have fleets traveling with our ship throughout the galaxy, and can for example call in a geth drop ship in combat if we have the geth, from keeping legion, much like how you were able to get the reinforcements in DA:O. 

So for a fact, depending on if you had one of these people as your LI, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Tali, Ashley, Liara, and Kaiden will have a full role. But we don't know if for example Miranda is your LI, does that mean that the others aren't in your squad? Or is it that she would fill the LI "full fledged" role, and the others are just your squadmates? We could possibly have new recruits, based on what they're saying about going around the galaxy and making alliances, but then again, this list of people above could very well be our squad mates. Or at least before possible new recruits, such as Wrex. Another thing is how he mentioned Grunt and Legion. He said for an example was that if Legion was in your active squad he could call in a geth airstrike from a dropship or something like that. So Grunt and Legion could possibly be there to. He mentioned Mordin, but said he would be the doc of the ship, and not be in your squad. And That'd be a good thing anyways, he's a doctor.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

KingDan97 wrote...

Can we stop referring to the 4chan posts as though they're facts? 4Chan should be taken with a gracious helping of salt at best. It's one of the largest rumor mills in the world. I remember there was a period where there was a man claiming to by one of the G8 world leaders, detailing extremely detailed plans surrounding ACTA and how we'd all lose any semblance of freee speech and how the US, Canada and Mexico would form the AU(American Union) and that he'd cough four times during a publicized G8 press conference to prove who he was. I didn't trust that either so I have no more belief in someone just because they posted on /v/ instead of /new/. We're taking a man at face value who deliberately posted on an anonymous site. He didn't go in depth into anything in a way that is verifiable. He didn't know how their DLC worked and he didn't even mention anything we hadn't worked out by March. He said the stuff about the Liara DLC, the basic presmise of which we'd already figured out from the hidden audio files. Then he just made a ton of stuff up that won't be verifiable until it's released. It's all too general to pick anything specific out of it until Liara comes out or ME3, by which point he'll have trolled the entire forum into thinking that anything mentioned within that is an "Official Bioware Quote"

Like he said, he didn't care if people believed him or not. But based on the information he was saying, I'm finding it easy to believe he was telling the truth. We didn't know anything about the shadow broker mission based on the audio files, only that Shepard found him and told Liara he knows where to get him, along with her killing him and returning to Illium as the new SB. He however said that we would travel with her on multiple missions, and be able to either fix the romance or start a new one. That wasn't in the files.

-Polite

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well exactly. I'm glad we could agree on this. But the writer said that they were considering making the squad static on the ship, like Kelly, Joker, Rupert, etc... or making them squadmates. However he also says that they're making Legion a squaddie, and were thinking of making Wrex one also. Another thing he points out is that they could send Grunt to his homeworld, which would result in him being with Wrex, or keep him with his Battlemaster. He goes on to say that the latter would be better. So we know for a fact at least that the Mass 1 or 2 LI's, depending on who your LI is, will be given a full role in the third game. (Bioware kind of hinted at this before, but now it's clear its the same for a Mass 2 LI even though they can die) 

Well, what exactly?  I can buy that the LI's can come back as a fully fledged squadmate, but not have even more variation if they're not a LI.  For instance, the LI placeholder is filled by Liara.  She has LI dialog at every plot point, which is reserved for every other LI squadmate.  But since those others aren't LI's...they'd have to have entire other dialog trees, or nothing at all (as evidenced by how to befriend LI's in ME2: you either romance them or not.)  Now, if they can then become LI's...okay, I can see that.  But their character development would have to only be LI based, since this is not a story of character vignettes/loyalty missions/development and the like.  And if it becomes another drop/gain LI's...it's too much variation.  Which, now, says nothing of new squadmates being potential LI's.

So you're going to have (male/female Shepard of course) 9 interchangable LI placeholder squadmates, that have nothing to do with the plot?  That's not making sense.

I can, however, see at least one LI squadmate, as established by ME1/ME2, who can be gained/dropped by a one of two new squadmates (male/female Shepard) that has both LI character development and potential main plot relevance/involvement/development.

So that would minimize the potential characters Bioware would have to give full squad status to, depending on the playthrough and who the LI is. So that'd be 6, instead of 12 if they end up going the route of keeping the remaining members of the squad on the ship as NPC's.

-Polite

Well, that makes a bit more sense.  The non-LI's squadmates won't amount to much, since there'd be no time to develop them (unless main plot related development, something I've never understood why it didn't happen in ME.)  But it still doesn't account for the new characters.

Unless we can see some patterns in the LI's status, or know of placeholder/roles that would make them interchangeable (like Kal'Reegar for Tali), and can see how this works with 10 dead ME2 characters, I can't see it working with that many characters.

DLC?  No problems, a static story, but hardly a clear answer.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Hold on, Bioware said that the reason they wanted to keep the Mass 1 LI's alive is because they're important to the story of Mass 3. So the LI's will play a crucial role. Regardless of whether it's a Mass 1 or Mass 2 LI.



-Polite

[KingDan97]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

Can we stop referring to the 4chan posts as though they're facts? 4Chan should be taken with a gracious helping of salt at best. It's one of the largest rumor mills in the world. I remember there was a period where there was a man claiming to by one of the G8 world leaders, detailing extremely detailed plans surrounding ACTA and how we'd all lose any semblance of freee speech and how the US, Canada and Mexico would form the AU(American Union) and that he'd cough four times during a publicized G8 press conference to prove who he was. I didn't trust that either so I have no more belief in someone just because they posted on /v/ instead of /new/. We're taking a man at face value who deliberately posted on an anonymous site. He didn't go in depth into anything in a way that is verifiable. He didn't know how their DLC worked and he didn't even mention anything we hadn't worked out by March. He said the stuff about the Liara DLC, the basic presmise of which we'd already figured out from the hidden audio files. Then he just made a ton of stuff up that won't be verifiable until it's released. It's all too general to pick anything specific out of it until Liara comes out or ME3, by which point he'll have trolled the entire forum into thinking that anything mentioned within that is an "Official Bioware Quote"

Like he said, he didn't care if people believed him or not. But based on the information he was saying, I'm finding it easy to believe he was telling the truth. We didn't know anything about the shadow broker mission based on the audio files, only that Shepard found him and told Liara he knows where to get him, along with her killing him and returning to Illium as the new SB. He however said that we would travel with her on multiple missions, and be able to either fix the romance or start a new one. That wasn't in the files.

-Polite

So if I said I was a Bioware writer(which I'm not, that's against the ToS) and I claimed that the Gunt/Mordin confrontation would occur during the bridging DLC and you'd resolve the fight by flying in on a robot rainicorn, that's obviously true because I involved information known through hidden dialogue?

[Wraith_of_Dawn]

The only non-LI squad-mates I would hate to see leave would be Legion and Grunt, though more So Legion. He provides some interesting insight on the Geth in my opinion.

[Jaron Oberyn]

KingDan97 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

Can we stop referring to the 4chan posts as though they're facts? 4Chan should be taken with a gracious helping of salt at best. It's one of the largest rumor mills in the world. I remember there was a period where there was a man claiming to by one of the G8 world leaders, detailing extremely detailed plans surrounding ACTA and how we'd all lose any semblance of freee speech and how the US, Canada and Mexico would form the AU(American Union) and that he'd cough four times during a publicized G8 press conference to prove who he was. I didn't trust that either so I have no more belief in someone just because they posted on /v/ instead of /new/. We're taking a man at face value who deliberately posted on an anonymous site. He didn't go in depth into anything in a way that is verifiable. He didn't know how their DLC worked and he didn't even mention anything we hadn't worked out by March. He said the stuff about the Liara DLC, the basic presmise of which we'd already figured out from the hidden audio files. Then he just made a ton of stuff up that won't be verifiable until it's released. It's all too general to pick anything specific out of it until Liara comes out or ME3, by which point he'll have trolled the entire forum into thinking that anything mentioned within that is an "Official Bioware Quote"

Like he said, he didn't care if people believed him or not. But based on the information he was saying, I'm finding it easy to believe he was telling the truth. We didn't know anything about the shadow broker mission based on the audio files, only that Shepard found him and told Liara he knows where to get him, along with her killing him and returning to Illium as the new SB. He however said that we would travel with her on multiple missions, and be able to either fix the romance or start a new one. That wasn't in the files.

-Polite

So if I said I was a Bioware writer(which I'm not, that's against the ToS) and I claimed that the Gunt/Mordin confrontation would occur during the bridging DLC and you'd resolve the fight by flying in on a robot rainicorn, that's obviously true because I involved information known through hidden dialogue?

No I wouldn't believe you. Because it wouldn't make sense. Ask yourself this - what would he have to gain from lying to people? All I see it as is a Bioware writer who wants to share some information on the development of Mass 3, but can't do it any other way than appearing as an anonymous writer. So what would he have to gain? Honestly? "Oh haha yeah i made those idiots think Liara was going to come on a few missions with them, haha whooo".  He simply wouldn't have anything to gain from lying. You may not believe him, but I do.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

Wraith_of_Dawn wrote...

The only non-LI squad-mates I would hate to see leave would be Legion and Grunt, though more So Legion. He provides some interesting insight on the Geth in my opinion.

Well according to the writer, Legion is with you. And they were considering keeping grunt since Shepard is his battlemaster.

-Polite

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Hold on, Bioware said that the reason they wanted to keep the Mass 1 LI's alive is because they're important to the story of Mass 3. So the LI's will play a crucial role. Regardless of whether it's a Mass 1 or Mass 2 LI.

-Polite

And if there is no ME1 (which is standard ME2 new game), or for that matter, a ME2 LI? 

I can only keep thinking contrived sacrifice scene.  Oh boy.  Make the bad man go away.

[Wraith_of_Dawn]

Samara could leave to fight injustice,. Thane will probably be Dead. DLC characters are hired guns, though they might be fleshed out (doubt it.) Kasumi though, likes the Crew, especially Shep & Tali, so she might stay because she likes it there. Plus the LI's and that takes care of ME2's squad.

I can see it like that.
EDIT: Never mind, Mordin is only in his Mid to late 30's, can't think of where I got 50 from.

Modifié par Wraith_of_Dawn, 03 août 2010 - 08:50 .

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
The walk animations may be unique, I haven't noticed, but I know all of the other ones are the same. They reuse the same animations for every person in the game that walks on 2 legs. 

I really didn't see a difference either.

As for the heads, the heads are separate from the actual body. Even for say Miranda, or Jacob. Even though they have unique bodies, the heads weren't attached. 

Right.  So depending on how they handle armor in ME3, the issue then becomes "how much effort is it to make a new head?"

Now for the LI thing, it ins't be theorizing, Im simply restating stuff one of the writers who's working on the game said. He said that the LI's will get full fledged squad status. He said that Mass 3 will be about securing alliances, like DA:O, and that the decisions from the first and second game will affect that. He gave the example of getting Rachni and Krogan fleets based on if Wrex is alive, and the Rachni queen is alive. He also stated how it would be difficult to do it with the Quarians if Tali got exiled, and so forth. According to him, we'll have fleets traveling with our ship throughout the galaxy, and can for example call in a geth drop ship in combat if we have the geth, from keeping legion, much like how you were able to get the reinforcements in DA:O. 

That's fine, but I don't see how that relates to squadmates.

So for a fact, depending on if you had one of these people as your LI, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Tali, Ashley, Liara, and Kaiden will have a full role. But we don't know if for example Miranda is your LI, does that mean that the others aren't in your squad? Or is it that she would fill the LI "full fledged" role, and the others are just your squadmates? We could possibly have new recruits, based on what they're saying about going around the galaxy and making alliances, but then again, this list of people above could very well be our squad mates. Or at least before possible new recruits, such as Wrex. Another thing is how he mentioned Grunt and Legion. He said for an example was that if Legion was in your active squad he could call in a geth airstrike from a dropship or something like that. So Grunt and Legion could possibly be there to. He mentioned Mordin, but said he would be the doc of the ship, and not be in your squad. And That'd be a good thing anyways, he's a doctor.
-Polite

So if they weren't LI, they don't have a full role?  That doesn't make sense.  LI is merely a superfluous sub-plot to having a squadmate, and there's no reason why one can't have a LI with a non-squadmate (Kelly.)

(I always hated Chakwas.  Nothing personal.  I prefer any element introduced to a story that servces a purpose toward that story.  Hell I'd pull Chekov's gun on every thing if I could.)

Per Casey's intention, (unless the whole dev team tie him up and beat him till he submits), I'm quite sure there'll be new squadmates. Unless he was literally referring to characters.  With 10 dead...that'll be one empty little party.

[theelementslayer]

[quote]smudboy wrote...
And we're referring to the whole model, not just the head?
[/quote]

I would say her body looks more similar then her head does, and her head is almost the exact same. The armour is rextextured a but but not too much

[quote]

But aren't the ME characters all heads stuck on bodies?  Obviously it's less work to put Liara on a new body, then let's say Wrex on a Krogan body.  But wouldn't one only be changing the body then, since the head already exists and isn't being changed?

[/quote]

Look at Liara vs Miranda or vs Jack, Hell even I think kelly has her own body model, but Im unsure of that one, it looks mightly like the default female body they use for humans. No the squaddies are all unique.

[/quote]
[quote]
Really?  I didn't notice a difference.  I know the idle animations were all the same.
[/quote]

Idle yes, but look at thier feet when walking, Mirandas walk has her legs much more "model runway" style whereas jack is more just upfront walking.

[quote]
Maybe that's the focus, but I'm interested in all assets and time to completion.
[/quote]

No idea where your going with this but yes of course all scenes have to be modelled, scripted and stuff. LIke anything else. But the character doesnt.

[quote]
Well obviously including new characters and old ones is more expensive, but we know they're doing both.  The question is how they handling that?  I'm using the 2/5 rule from ME1->ME2, and none of those were LI's.

It's pretty obvious they'll bring back LI's, and as Polite is theorizing, they'll all be squadmates.  Now that sounds like a great thing, but what value would one LI be on the narrative over another?  Therefore, the LI's would exist as a placeholder, and the LI/relationship dialog would develop, not really anything of great plot value (because the point is romance, not Stop the Reapers through kissing, or something weird.)
[/quote]

lolz the 2/5 rule. Im pretty sure I made that up on the Hate on Plot thread. Thanks for using one of my own arguments. 

on another note, yes the non squaddie NPCs are mostly all copy and past jobs with walking, idle, and models, that was nothing new

Modifié par theelementslayer, 03 août 2010 - 08:54 .

[Soverign 666]

hey people guess what we won't know what the squad in ME3 is gonna be until it comes out! So why don't we all just argue some more when there no way its gonna be resolved because smudboy is so convicned he's right about every ****ing thing he won't listen to any logical arguement

[theelementslayer]

Soverign 666 wrote...

hey people guess what we won't know what the squad in ME3 is gonna be until it comes out! So why don't we all just argue some more when there no way its gonna be resolved because smudboy is so convicned he's right about every ****ing thing he won't listen to any logical arguement

Because Im bored, and arguing with him is fun

[smudboy]

We Tigers wrote...

While you all are comparing your bona fides, would someone take a look at this post of mine from yesterday? This is the fundamental confusion I have on the issue of what implementations require more resources.

http://social.biowar...2255/24#3326553

Right, this is the example of a placeholder (the Urdnot Leader.)  It's also fairly generic and has nothing to do with anything.  (What does more or less democratic politics have to do with stopping the Reapers, I can't say.)

Which they'll have to either use in entirety, or have small to large cameos for existing characters.  After all, 83% of all ME2 squad members were brand new.  It's much easier to have static assets with variations on choice (like a new character having plot integrity) than have completely variable assets with variations on choice (ME2 characters squadmates cannot have plot integrity.)

That does not say ME2 squadmates can't be plot relevant, or provide variations on plot (e.g. Tali rallying the Quarians), it would simply be a lot more complex work just to settle a public opinion or popularity or demand, which has a variable (death) outcome (i.e. making Tali a squadmate in ME2 is much easier to do than ME3.)

[smudboy]

Soverign 666 wrote...

hey people guess what we won't know what the squad in ME3 is gonna be until it comes out! So why don't we all just argue some more when there no way its gonna be resolved because smudboy is so convicned he's right about every ****ing thing he won't listen to any logical arguement

And your "logical argument" is an opinion about my inability to listen to a post like this?

I read.  I listened.  And franky I can't see any logic or argument here.  Speculating on my ability to understand logical arguments well, that's just sad.

[We Tigers]

Wait a second. The source for all this speculation is 4chan? You have got to be kidding me. You coming up with these ideas on your own would be vastly more credible than anything from 4chan. It's the made-up-for-no-reason capital of the internet.

[smudboy]

theelementslayer wrote...
I would say her body looks more similar then her head does, and her head is almost the exact same. The armour is rextextured a but but not too much

Okay, so you're saying that the body and the armor are very similar, and didn't take too much work to do?

Look at Liara vs Miranda or vs Jack, Hell even I think kelly has her own body model, but Im unsure of that one, it looks mightly like the default female body they use for humans. No the squaddies are all unique.

But what if, when modeling a new character, they took an existing model (like Kelly's body), and then started tweaking it.  Would that be easier or harder than starting from scratch?

Idle yes, but look at thier feet when walking, Mirandas walk has her legs much more "model runway" style whereas jack is more just upfront walking.

Oh the walk cycle, okay, I can see what you're saying.

No idea where your going with this but yes of course all scenes have to be modelled, scripted and stuff. LIke anything else. But the character doesnt.

I'm just trying to point out, whether you're building a new character, or using an old one, you're still doing a lot of work.  I'm also trying to show that making a new character isn't that different from using an old one.

lolz the 2/5 rule. Im pretty sure I made that up on the Hate on Plot thread. Thanks for using one of my own arguments. 

You did?  I just looked at the squadmate number in ME1 and looked at how many squadmates in ME1 become squadmates in ME2 (Tali and Garrus.)

on another note, yes the non squaddie NPCs are mostly all copy and past jobs with walking, idle, and models, that was nothing new

Okay, so let's use that same idea then.  So there's really not too much new rigging and animating work to be done with in game animations, aside from specific cutscene animations, correct?

Modifié par smudboy, 03 août 2010 - 09:10 .

[theelementslayer]

We Tigers wrote...

Wait a second. The source for all this speculation is 4chan? You have got to be kidding me. You coming up with these ideas on your own would be vastly more credible than anything from 4chan. It's the made-up-for-no-reason capital of the internet.

Nah Im just speculating, I havent looked at the 4chan thing. But I cant see why they would put a whole game towards a squad and then pull it away. Plus the 4chan thing popped up like 2 days ago this arguments been going on for longer then that