2338 réponses à ce sujet

[snfonseka]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
There are two main problems with reintroducing (part of) your ME2 crew as ME3 squad members:

1) Because the ME2 crew can die, they need to come up with place-holders for these characters. That means that for every ME2 character they're planning to return, they need to write an extra character to take over the ME2 character's place if he/she died in the suicide mission. If they need to do this for multiple characters for the entire game (from the beginning to the end) then it would take months of work and it would cost a lot of money too. I won't say it's impossible, but it's very inefficent for BioWare and a waste of time and money.

They don't have to come up with placeholders, although depending on the default game setup it might be necessary. That's the only issue. The new players, people who decide to jump into the trilogy at the last act. Crazy as it might sound, some people do that. That being said, unless we know who survives in the canon story, we won't be able to know for sure who's going to come back as a squadmate. However, it is most likely that Legion, Grunt, Jacob, Miranda, Garrus,Tali, and Jack will definitely be in your squad. Why? Because they all have direct ties to commander shepard.

Shepard is Grunt's battlemaster. He has to follow shepard. That's assuming you've opened his tank. 

Jacob works for Cerberus. Not everyone quit Cerberus. If you did, theres always the LI status for some femsheps.

Miranda works for Cerberus. Now if you don't quit Cerberus, yeah you get the picture. But if you do, she tells the
Illusive Man that she quits also. So where exactly would she go? And again, theres the LI status for her also.

Garrus and Tali are not going to leave, because they already left Shepard once and both expressed their regret for doing so. They're not going to leave again just for kicks. Garrus is presumed dead. He can't risk "resurfacing". Tali has the ability to be exiled from the Migrant Fleet. So where would she go too? And again, theres the LI status. 

Jack would most likely leave, given her personality and stance on Cerberus. But here we go again with the LI factor. If your shepard romanced her, then her whole attitude changes, and theres the fact that she has absolutely no where to go either.

Thane is going to die, like it or not. 

Samara will most likely leave, although she could possibly stay. 

Zaeed and Kasumi are not likely to stay either.

Legion will stay because you got him at the end of the game. And while yes you could turn him in to Cerberus, if you don't he tells you that he's been looking for you and wants to join you. Why leave after looking for Shepard Commander for so long? 

I think that's pretty much everyone. But again, this is all dependent on the decisions you've made in the game, and also what the canon storyline is. 

Mass Effect 3 isn't going to be another recruit a deadly team and take out the bad guys game. That was what Mass Effect 2 was about. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - They're not going to dedicate the whole game to the squad just to write them off and give you a whole new one in  Mass Effect 3. And I know you'll use the argument that new people won't know the previous team, etc... Well that's your fault for coming in on the third game, and it's also dependent on who lives in the canon storyline. My guess is that no one dies. 

-Polite

^This and I don't think there will be many people who jumped in for ME3 as their first game.

[MaxQuartiroli]

David Knight wrote...

And again, just for truth... Why can't people NOT pick up a game that says Mass Effect 3 if they haven't played the first two? Ugh.

But they cannot release a game with an advise: 
"Warning, to enjoy this game you must have played the previous one"
It's out of any possible reason
ME3 won't be an expansion to ME2 and won't be an elitaire product.
Don't think that we'll have any rights on that game just because we bought ME1 and ME2, because for them it will be just a new product, therefore the money that you or me will spend to buy ME3, will have the same value of money  spent by a new customer.
Therefore they are going to release a game thinking to every possible player, not only to people who already played it.

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 10 août 2010 - 09:02 .

[Zulu_DFA]

snfonseka wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mass Effect 3 isn't going to be another recruit a deadly team and take out the bad guys game. That was what Mass Effect 2 was about. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - They're not going to dedicate the whole game to the squad just to write them off and give you a whole new one in  Mass Effect 3. And I know you'll use the argument that new people won't know the previous team, etc... Well that's your fault for coming in on the third game, and it's also dependent on who lives in the canon storyline. My guess is that no one dies. 

-Polite

^This and I don't think there will be many people who jumped in for ME3 as their first game.

ME2 was not a giant recruitment mission for ME3. It was a giant recruitment mission for ME2. ME2 ended, the ME2 squadmates are used up. BioWare spent some dollars to create them, and those dollars have already returned to BioWare with surplus. Now BioWare has to spend some dollars to create new content, that is relevant to the task of finishing Shepard's story.

ME3 will probably have a smaller squad, consisting of Liara, the Virmire Survivor and a few new faces. They will all be recruited along the main story plotline and will not have any "loyalty" missions. But they will all have something to advance the main plot. Just like in ME1.

You'll be able to download many ME2 squadmates for additional price, but they'll have zero relevance to the story and zero interaction with other squad members. More lucky ME2 squadmates will get NPC-cameo roles.

[smudboy]

snfonseka wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mass Effect 3 isn't going to be another recruit a deadly team and take out the bad guys game. That was what Mass Effect 2 was about. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - They're not going to dedicate the whole game to the squad just to write them off and give you a whole new one in  Mass Effect 3. And I know you'll use the argument that new people won't know the previous team, etc... Well that's your fault for coming in on the third game, and it's also dependent on who lives in the canon storyline. My guess is that no one dies. 

-Polite

^This and I don't think there will be many people who jumped in for ME3 as their first game.

They did write them off.  They wrote them to be dead.  And some not even recruited.  And all not even imported.

It's no one's fault for buying ME3.  If anything, it's an incentive for them to check out the previous two games.

What canon storyline?  Are we talking new game?   'cause in ME2's new game, there's no love interest, no Wrex, and no Rachni (maybe a few other NPC deaths, I don't recall.)  Now, that would preclude that maybe BioWare might want new players to check out the previous titles to make their sequel experience larger.  But that doesn't prove anything toward squadmates, since the LCD in a ME3 new game would be everyone dead save 2.

If your guess is that no one dies, then ME2 was a waste of time. The Suicide Mission was totally useless, and continuity is gone.  If it's gone, then how can anything in ME2 be relevant for being assumed to be imported or continuous to be perceived as canon?

[Flamewielder]

As was pointed out, ME3 should reward those who played ME1/ME2, not punish those who haven't.

My personal prediction is close to Zulu's: ME3 team will include the Virmire survivor and perhaps Liara (will form a better opinion after the DLC) plus some new squaddies.

Some popular ME2 squaddies will be offered as DLC for the fans. Satisfy the fans and get extra $$$.

Other ME2 squaddies (like Mordin) may become crew (like ME1's quartermaster) . They may also offer a character-specific mission (allowing you to use them as a squaddie for a single mission unlocking a goodie). They're dead? You only miss out on one mission and a goodie. As I stated already, a satisfying reward (i.e. more than a bloody e-mail) for those who played ME1/ME2, that doesn't penalize new players.

This horse has been flogged to death indeed, but it raises a more interesting question on a storytelling level:

You recruited "the best" out there... I guess you'll have to settle for "second best" for ME3, huh? Unless the ME3 mission requires very different qualifications than ME2. Perhaps squaddies with specialized intel relevant to the mission, making them more important than a squaddie with abnormally powerful biotics (Jack) or assassination skills (Thane). I anticipate the ME2 squaddies will be "unavailable" as squaddies but will be shown as helping out behind the scenes. It makes story-telling sense to do so, and it allows the player to feel the connexion made in past games hasn't been lost.

[Iakus]

Flamewielder wrote...

You recruited "the best" out there... I guess you'll have to settle for "second best" for ME3, huh? Unless the ME3 mission requires very different qualifications than ME2. Perhaps squaddies with specialized intel relevant to the mission, making them more important than a squaddie with abnormally powerful biotics (Jack) or assassination skills (Thane). I anticipate the ME2 squaddies will be "unavailable" as squaddies but will be shown as helping out behind the scenes. It makes story-telling sense to do so, and it allows the player to feel the connexion made in past games hasn't been lost.

Assuming ME 3 really is about the Reapers (not taking anything for granted here) then yeah, different skillset will be required.  Remember what Ash said in ME 1: her assault rifle would be like spitballs against a Reaper.  A dozen people really really good at killing things with handheld weapons are not gonna stop a Reaper invasion  

[Pedrak]

Flamewielder wrote...

As was pointed out, ME3 should reward those who played ME1/ME2, not punish those who haven't.

My personal prediction is close to Zulu's: ME3 team will include the Virmire survivor and perhaps Liara (will form a better opinion after the DLC) plus some new squaddies.

Some popular ME2 squaddies will be offered as DLC for the fans. Satisfy the fans and get extra $$$.

Agreed.
 
I believe a few former companions (if I'd have to guess, I'd say Garrus, Tali and Miranda) will have Wrex-like cameos. Others will be available through DLC (ex. follow Thane in his last mission, cooperate with Samara to stop a criminal...). Only a couple of them (including Liara) will be in the party.

Modifié par Pedrak, 10 août 2010 - 01:50 .

[KingDan97]

Luc0s wrote...

Oh and to all the players who say ME3 doesn't need to be a stand-alone game because it wouldn't make sense to pick up the third part of a series without playing the previous games, I say: Bull****.

I played Fable 2 before I played Fable (TLC). I played Halo 3 before I played Halo 1 and 2. I played Banjo Tooie (Banji Kazooie 2) before I played Banjo Kazooie. And the list goes on.

I think a lot of people don't realize that there are plenty of (casual) gamers that often pick up a game series near the final episode. Usually they'll buy the previous games later.

Fable 2 is completely disjointed from Fable 1, the fact that they're set in the same general continent aside. Halo 3 is a multi-player focused game, the story's only major hook to the last game is Cortana, Johnson isn't a plot point, neither is Guilty Spark and the fact that Installation 4 was being rebuilt after Halo 1 didn't matter because they could've just claimed it was a new ring or something. Banjo Tooie was from a period in gaming where story was more of a backdrop for a gaming style, not so much the game itself. Can you name one major plot point of Banjo Tooie that wasn't from the beginning(any point after the zombification of the king of the Jingos) or the end(after you enter Grunty's tower)? Neither can I...

Mass Effect is a series of story, it is an RPG. It's the story of one man and the events surrounding him. It's not the same as a multiplayer focued game, or a loose RPG with a barely connected story, or a game from the 90's on the N64. Bioware isn't penalizing players for not playing ME1 and ME2, they're giving those who did a bonus. It's a completely different thing in theory and practice. If a person who jumps into ME3 gets back 6 characters, preset from ME2 can you honestly tell me that they're at a disadvantage? What if there are 4 placeholders for those who only got 2 characters out, so they end up with the same amount as a new player? Or what if, at the beginning of the game, you chose which 6 you keep if you have more then 6? Are the new players still at a disadvantage for some unintelligible reason?

[glacier1701]

 Well if we look at things and use some math we can try to figure out how many actually squad combinations there might be. From that we perhaps might get a better sense as to why we should not expect to see ME2 squaddies around.

 There are at the very most 12 squad mates you can have and as far as I can tell they can all die. However for you to be able to carry the game over into ME3 you must have a minimum number of squadmates. If my math for this is correct then its a simple binary answer to the question Alive or Dead with at least 2 of those HAVING to be Alive. So if we multiply 2 by itself 10 times that should give us the number of squad permutations available for ME3. That means 1024 different compostions of a final ME2 squad that could be available. (I am almost positive that my answer is low and that it should be perhaps 4096 but for now lets use the lower number.)

 For those who argue that BioWare has to keep the ME2 squad will now have to say that BioWare can adequately model things so that they can take into account all the possible variations of dialog that could occur UNLESS they are willing to say that having no squad chatter and only allowing Shepard to talk to the squad is fine. And as you might recall this is one thing that many have pointed out is what is lacking in ME2...yet having the same squad means you have to have the same thing UNLESS you allow BioWare a lot of time and a HUGE budget to put in the banter. Doing that of course means that we violate the condition of BioWare having budget/time constraints in the first place. So realistically the best course of action is to sideline the ME2 squad and start a new lot.

 Personally trying to flowchart the possible combinations of dialogs and then trying to write the lines sounds like a real nightmare. I cannot see how they'd do it and produce something that did not contain many inconsistancies or huge chunks of repetative dialog which would detract from the game itself. Thus I will contend that those say it makes no sense to throw out the ME2 squad because of the time and money spent on them my arguement shows that keeping them is potentially a LOT more expensive or will cost the game in  lack of content. And I think most of us dont want a lack of content.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Pedrak wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

As was pointed out, ME3 should reward those who played ME1/ME2, not punish those who haven't.

My personal prediction is close to Zulu's: ME3 team will include the Virmire survivor and perhaps Liara (will form a better opinion after the DLC) plus some new squaddies.

Some popular ME2 squaddies will be offered as DLC for the fans. Satisfy the fans and get extra $$$.

Agreed.
 
I believe a few former companions (if I'd have to guess, I'd say Garrus, Tali and Miranda) will have Wrex-like cameos. Others will be available through DLC (ex. follow Thane in his last mission, cooperate with Samara to stop a criminal...). Only a couple of them (including Liara) will be in the party.

And again we go to the cameos. "Wrex like cameos". The only reason Wrex got sidelined was because he had a plot role to fill. The reasons the virmire survivors were sidelined was because they had to make sure they, and Liara, were in the third game. Bioware didn't want them to potentially die on the suicide mission. That's the only reasons for the cameos. The only one. That being said, the suicide mission is over, do you really think they're going to make up some sad excuse for why the entire Mass Effect 2 team will be subjected to cameos in the last game? Do you honestly believe that? Because your going to be in for a shock. 

Do you not realize that Ashley/Kaidan could both potentially die? It's the same concept with the Mass 2 team, except that its on a larger scale. If they can make the virmire survivor a squaddie in the third game, they can do the exact same with the suicide mission survivors. 

The whole issue with your argument is that you claiming the mass 2 team will get cameos based on what happened to the mass 1 team. But you don't understand the reason the mass 1 team got sidelined for mass 2. Once you understand that, and the fact that Ashley/Kaidan could potentially die, like the mass 2 squad, you'd understand how Bioware will handle it. They already got Wrex, Ashley/Kaidan into the games of anyone who had them survive, all they had to do was give them a larger role. That's exactly what they're going to do in Mass 3, with the virmire survivor, and with the surviving mass effect 2 team. The only squaddies from mass 2 who will most likely not be in the game will be Zaeed and Kasumi. Only those two. Everyone else but Thane has credible reasons to be on the Normandy.

-Polite

[Wittand25]

KingDan97 wrote...
Bioware isn't penalizing players for not playing ME1 and ME2, they're giving those who did a bonus. It's a completely different thing in theory and practice. If a person who jumps into ME3 gets back 6 characters, preset from ME2 can you honestly tell me that they're at a disadvantage? What if there are 4 placeholders for those who only got 2 characters out, so they end up with the same amount as a new player? Or what if, at the beginning of the game, you chose which 6 you keep if you have more then 6? Are the new players still at a disadvantage for some unintelligible reason?

A new player getting a more than two or three members right at the start would be bad design because they would be overwhelmed and get irritated.
Placeholders are a bad idea because they must be fully developed, but turn up in less than half the games.

Forcing players with more than the custom number of survivers to leave squadmates behind is probably the single worst idea that has come up in the whole thread, because for all twelve squadmembers you need to develop content as squadmate, content if the player decides to throw the NPC out of the squad and content that addresses the demise of the squadmember as well as several replacement NPCs and additionally manage to overwhelm newbies with the options at the beginning as well as irritating all the returning players by having to leave Squadmembers behind. A giant amount of work to make everybody unhappy.

And could you please change your picture that constant flashing is causing me a headache.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Wittand25 wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
Bioware isn't penalizing players for not playing ME1 and ME2, they're giving those who did a bonus. It's a completely different thing in theory and practice. If a person who jumps into ME3 gets back 6 characters, preset from ME2 can you honestly tell me that they're at a disadvantage? What if there are 4 placeholders for those who only got 2 characters out, so they end up with the same amount as a new player? Or what if, at the beginning of the game, you chose which 6 you keep if you have more then 6? Are the new players still at a disadvantage for some unintelligible reason?

A new player getting a more than two or three members right at the start would be bad design because they would be overwhelmed and get irritated.
Placeholders are a bad idea because they must be fully developed, but turn up in less than half the games.

Forcing players with more than the custom number of survivers to leave squadmates behind is probably the single worst idea that has come up in the whole thread, because for all twelve squadmembers you need to develop content as squadmate, content if the player decides to throw the NPC out of the squad and content that addresses the demise of the squadmember as well as several replacement NPCs and additionally manage to overwhelm newbies with the options at the beginning as well as irritating all the returning players by having to leave Squadmembers behind. A giant amount of work to make everybody unhappy.

And could you please change your picture that constant flashing is causing me a headache.

Well that "bad design" is a consequence of playing the last game. You don't jump into the third LoTR movie and expect to know everyone, you'll know who the people are as you move forward in the movie, or you watch the previous 2. That's bring back the argument about penalizing players who've played the first 2 for the sake of people who haven't. Bioware isn't going to do that. 

-Polite

[Wittand25]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Well that "bad design" is a consequence of playing the last game. You don't jump into the third LoTR movie and expect to know everyone, you'll know who the people are as you move forward in the movie, or you watch the previous 2. That's bring back the argument about penalizing players who've played the first 2 for the sake of people who haven't. Bioware isn't going to do that. 

-Polite

Seriously I am going to slap the next person that brings up LotR as an example of a trilogy, even if that involves a transatlantic flight.
LotR is no trilogy it is a tree-parter. A trilogy consists of three separate instalments that each is complete by itself but also work together as a whole (see the back to the future films and other). A three-pater is one instalment in three parts, none of which is complete by itself ans only fully understandable if experienced together with the other two parts (see LotR).
Giving cameos to former squadmates does not penalize players with a safegame to import, it rewards them with extra dialog and meeting old friends. Having all (or even most) of the squadmember remaining in the squad would however penalize new and casual players and those are the biggest part of the ME3 buyers.

[Jaron Oberyn]

 "A trilogy is a set of three works of art that are connected, and that can be seen either as a single work or as three individual works. They are most commonly found in literature, film, or video games, less commonly in visual art or musical works"

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

Wittand25 wrote...

Seriously I am going to slap the next person that brings up LotR as an example of a trilogy, even if that involves a transatlantic flight.

Do I detect a bit of nerd rage? If you and I were sitting face to face, I hardly doubt those words would be coming out of your mouth. 

-Polite

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
And again we go to the cameos. "Wrex like cameos". The only reason Wrex got sidelined was because he had a plot role to fill.

The Urdnot Leader is not a plot role.  You can completely skip Tuchanka.

The reasons the virmire survivors were sidelined was because they had to make sure they, and Liara, were in the third game.

Or maybe, within the confines of the overarching plot, the writers wanted to simply do whatever they wanted?  Hmm, I guess we're saying the same thing here.

Bioware didn't want them to potentially die on the suicide mission. That's the only reasons for the cameos. The only one.

Wait, why does making a squadmate, from the first game, become a cameo/NPC in the sequel, make that the only reason?  They could've made them an email, or made an aside in any number of references, or a temporary squadmate, or no mention of them at all.  Where is this "only cameo reason" deduction coming from?  The writer's could've done whatever they wanted with Liara, Wrex, or Ashley/Kaidan.  In regards to Liara not being a fully fledged squadmate, that's entirely up to the writer.  I can even make an argument for the Ashley/Kaidan placeholder, since that's either one or the other, and writing their dialog can be pretty similar anyway (although I'd still argue they wouldn't do that, because it's a waste of resources, all to get one or the other.)

That being said, the suicide mission is over, do you really think they're going to make up some sad excuse for why the entire Mass Effect 2 team will be subjected to cameos in the last game? Do you honestly believe that? Because your going to be in for a shock.

What's wrong with cameos?

How do you deal with the entirety of crew death?  Lazarus Project 2.0?  You've yet to explain that, or seem to be dancing around the issue that everyone can die.

Do you not realize that Ashley/Kaidan could both potentially die? It's the same concept with the Mass 2 team, except that its on a larger scale. If they can make the virmire survivor a squaddie in the third game, they can do the exact same with the suicide mission survivors. 

Except there are only two variables: Ashley or Kaidan.  It's either or.  It's not like ME2, where everyone can die.  As I said before, I can see an argument for the Virmire Survivor joining, but that's pushing it.  It's way more doable than ME2's 12.

Can you imagine writing 12 placeholder characters, from the first game, with all the same lines of dialog, at plot specific events, that are completely static, that not everyone can see or hear?  It's a complex, waste of time.  All to make them squadmates?  It'd be a writer's painful realm of tedium, and a logistical nightmare to pull off, and I wouldn't care much for the squadmate responses if they're generally the same either (just look at ME2.)  Unless you simply mean "they'll be squadmates, but have the depth of a bulkhead", or something like that, then it's a waste of resources.  They'd be fluff, and have no relevance aside from "because people said so."  ME2 already suffers from characters equaling fluff in relation to the plot.  To want to import that over, into a plot that has no reason for them to be involved, whose existence is completely varaible on death/non-recruitment/not even being imported, is an even greater waste.

(Let's not forget the added factors of having Samara/Morinth always die, Zaeed loyalty death, Legion sold, and Grunt not even being born.)

The whole issue with your argument is that you claiming the mass 2 team will get cameos based on what happened to the mass 1 team. But you don't understand the reason the mass 1 team got sidelined for mass 2. Once you understand that, and the fact that Ashley/Kaidan could potentially die, like the mass 2 squad, you'd understand how Bioware will handle it.

So...what's your understanding?

Well let's see.  Only 3 potential characters can die in the ME1 team, with one acting as a placeholder for the other.  The other (Wrex) is variable.  Both get cameo placeholders in ME2.  Therefore, I can conclude that, if in ME2, we get 12 potential characters that can die, with 2 placeholders for at least 2 randomly surviving, then those 2 can get cameo placeholders.  So yes, I do understand how ME1 charactesrs are granted cameos/placeholders, and can make a simple deduction why this'll happen to completely variable ME2 characters.

They already got Wrex, Ashley/Kaidan into the games of anyone who had them survive, all they had to do was give them a larger role. That's exactly what they're going to do in Mass 3, with the virmire survivor, and with the surviving mass effect 2 team. The only squaddies from mass 2 who will most likely not be in the game will be Zaeed and Kasumi. Only those two. Everyone else but Thane has credible reasons to be on the Normandy.

-Polite

So what if I only get Zaeed and Kasumi to survive in my ME2 playthrough?  Will they now most likely not be in my ME3 import? 

You see, you're trying to explain functionality by some false relationship between ME1->ME2 ("They wanted to make Liara and Virmire Survivor be in ME3"), to explain that it's the same in ME2 ("All ME2 characters will be back.")  I don't even see what you're trying to tell us here, especially since you now think it's based on their "reasons to be on the Normandy", which suddenly exclude Zaeed, Kasumi and Thane.  What are you saying?

If your premise was "Because they wanted to make Liara, the Vimire Surivivor and the Urdnot Leader placeholder be part of ME3, that's why they couldn't be killed off in ME2", then you're going to have to show where in ME2 the ME2 squadmates can't die.  But we know you can't, because that's not how the suicide mission functions.  So what are you saying?

Modifié par smudboy, 10 août 2010 - 05:24 .

[Wittand25]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Seriously I am going to slap the next person that brings up LotR as an example of a trilogy, even if that involves a transatlantic flight.

Do I detect a bit of nerd rage? If you and I were sitting face to face, I hardly doubt those words would be coming out of your mouth. 

-Polite

No just annoyance by people who constantly compare apples and oranges.
And further annoyance by those who seem to think that the movie predates the books (by the way LotR consists of six books).
I would not need the flight, and maybe would not actually warn you so yes I would not say those exact words if you were in front of me.

[KingDan97]

Luc0s wrote...

*snip*

Or, and here's a crazy idea. The developers could. Like they're doing with everything in the game. I'm presenting one possibility. I never claimed to think of every nitpicky eventuality.

Modifié par KingDan97, 10 août 2010 - 07:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]PoliteAssasin wrote...

And again we go to the cameos. "Wrex like cameos". The only reason Wrex got sidelined was because he had a plot role to fill.
[/quote]
Rubbish. The reason Wrex got sidelined was because he had been killable in ME1. The plot role was successfully filled with Wreav. Wrex's cameo was just a bone to his fanbase.


[quote]
The reasons the virmire survivors were sidelined was because they had to make sure they, and Liara, were in the third game.
[/quote]
Right. Because the devs had some doubts that they would be able to be in the third game in any meaningful way, should they not have been sidelined in the second.


[quote]
Bioware didn't want them to potentially die on the suicide mission.
[/quote]
In other words, BioWare didn't want them to potentially share Tali's, Jack's Garrus's, Legion's, Zaeed's, Miranda's etc. fate.


[quote]
That being said, the suicide mission is over, do you really think they're going to make up some sad excuse for why the entire Mass Effect 2 team will be subjected to cameos in the last game? Do you honestly believe that?
[/quote]
Yes.


[quote]
Because your going to be in for a shock. 
[/quote]
Or you.


[quote]
Do you not realize that Ashley/Kaidan could both potentially die?
[/quote]
Rubbish. Only one of them can die, the other always lives and has the exact same plot role as the other.


[quote]
It's the same concept with the Mass 2 team, except that its on a larger scale.
[/quote]
Rubbish. All of them can die without any substitution. It's not the same concept, and there are hardly any more people here like you so thick as to not see it.


[quote]
If they can make the virmire survivor a squaddie in the third game, they can do the exact same with the suicide mission survivors. 
[/quote]
Rubbish. They can not. It's too expensive. They may (or may not) go for just one full time charater to have a full time stunt double (who has to be there anyway). They won't create 12 nor even 2-3 full time stunt doubles (that have no other reason to be in the game).


[quote]
The whole issue with your argument is that you claiming the mass 2 team will get cameos based on what happened to the mass 1 team. But you don't understand the reason the mass 1 team got sidelined for mass 2. Once you understand that, and the fact that Ashley/Kaidan could potentially die, like the mass 2 squad, you'd understand how Bioware will handle it.
[/quote]
"At first it was all blurry. But then I started to smell my greatness! Fear me, lesser creatures!!!"

I think I heard this before...


[quote]
They already got Wrex, Ashley/Kaidan into the games of anyone who had them survive, all they had to do was give them a larger role.[/quote]
Just like that. Simple. Just f*cking give them a larger role.


[quote]
That's exactly what they're going to do in Mass 3, with the virmire survivor, and with the surviving mass effect 2 team. The only squaddies from mass 2 who will most likely not be in the game will be Zaeed and Kasumi. Only those two. Everyone else but Thane has credible reasons to be on the Normandy.
[/quote]
Except Shepard. Who has to be busted down to Level 5 again and just two squadmates, one of whom will live for about 3 minutes.
[/quote]


[quote]
-Polite
[/quote]
-Zulu

... Oh, sh!t...

[krasnoarmeets]

Why the obsession with canon? The outcome of your individual savegame is canon for you on that playthrough - that's all that matters... gaah!

[cachx]

As I always say on this subject (it may have been in this thread even, it's pretty old) is: "It's not really a question of IF they are coming back, it's a question of on what condition will they return as".

On the technical side, and taking both ME1 and 2 as role-models, a squadmate is:
a - 3 or 4 full conversations one-on-one on the Normandy.
b - 2 or 3 "generic" lines per mission or hub (By generic I mean that they really have no real impact on the situation).
c - more dialogue for scenes/missions directly related to the character (that would be recruitment/loyalty missions).

If your squadmate survived and it's there, it's not really difficult to do (a) and (, as they don't really clash with anything. And I don't think ME3 will have more recruit/loyalty so © is out. There could be special cases, the more easy to imagine is that for example you go back to the Flotilla to ask for help so Tali should have a special role in that, if she's dead, then they'll need to have a stand-in ala Wreav to fill her role, or have the scene play out differently, since ME3 is the last game and they don't have to worry about importing variables into another game, hopefully they'll go wild with varied consequences.

In the end it boils down on whether Bioware thinks it's worth the effort or not.

[FlyinElk212]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ME2 was not a giant recruitment mission for ME3. It was a giant recruitment mission for ME2. ME2 ended, the ME2 squadmates are used up. BioWare spent some dollars to create them, and those dollars have already returned to BioWare with surplus. Now BioWare has to spend some dollars to create new content, that is relevant to the task of finishing Shepard's story.

ME3 will probably have a smaller squad, consisting of Liara, the Virmire Survivor and a few new faces. They will all be recruited along the main story plotline and will not have any "loyalty" missions. But they will all have something to advance the main plot. Just like in ME1.

Now I'm not saying that Bioware is incredible when it comes to storyline, but how and why would any of the survivors of ME2 just leave Shepard's side? Most notably, Miranda, Grunt, Garrus, & Tali? It would seem incredibly out of character for them to just leave Shepard, the main opposer of the Reaper threat.

I reaaaally don't think you're giving Bioware enough credit. I just don't believe they're stupid enough to hype an entire game based off of the squad only to discard them for the next game. I think they're stupid enough to okay shoddy plotlines, but until they've proven to me they're absolutely beyond help, I just don't think they're stupid enough to do this.

My gut tells me they've had a plan for this conundrum all along. What's could be a possible, viable plan? Check mai post a few pages back.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 10 août 2010 - 08:34 .

[krasnoarmeets]

Reapers are not the real threat! Miniature Giant Space Hamsters will rule the Galaxy! Their fleet will ravage the Galaxy with Boo at the head! Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 10 août 2010 - 09:17 .

[Iakus]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Now I'm not saying that Bioware is incredible when it comes to storyline, but how and why would any of the survivors of ME2 just leave Shepard's side? Most notably, Miranda, Grunt, Garrus, & Tali? It would seem incredibly out of character for them to just leave Shepard, the main opposer of the Reaper threat.

I reaaaally don't think you're giving Bioware enough credit. I just don't believe they're stupid enough to hype an entire game based off of the squad only to discard them for the next game. I think they're stupid enough to okay shoddy plotlines, but until they've proven to me they're absolutely beyond help, I just don't think they're stupid enough to do this.

My gut tells me they've had a plan for this conundrum all along. What's could be a possible, viable plan? Check mai post a few pages back.

Well, they could always destroy the Normandy and kill Shepard again...