2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Sursion]

This whole thread is pointless. Tali can get exiled and joins the Normandy, so I've just blown your whole useless theory out of the water.

Also, Bioware has confirmed that they're keeping the engine and programming for ME3. That means it's going to be 1-2 years of nothing but level design, story writing, and voice acting.

The only genuine non-returning squad members are:
1) Thane (Keprals Syndrome)
2) Jack (Neural Decay)

That's it. And even then, Bioware may give you a chance to cure these conditions. And don't bother saying 'Well, Grunt has to go to the Urdnot clan and help!' or 'Zaeed is only looking for cash!'

In the first game, Garrus was going to rejoin C-Sec or enter Spectre training. Look how that turned out.

All in all, anything is possible. But I seriously (99%) dismiss your claim.

[Onyx Jaguar]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar,

I'm sorry man but your wrong. Completely wrong. Why would Bioware make you have to start over with a new team? It would make absolutely no sense at all. Did you not read my post above? What proof or materials do you have to suggest that they'd drop the squad in ME3? I've given my reasons and my evidence to support it. What do you have that makes you so sure that ME3 will have an entirely new squad?

-Polite

Awakening is all the proof you need.

[onotix]

Ive been thinking the main reason why everyone says there will be no me2 squad mates in me3 is because they can all die. But Shepard can die. so they shouldn't make me3 in the first place because he may be dead in some peoples games.

[kaimanaMM]

Guanxii wrote...

Everything I wanted to say.

So instead, I'll just toss up an Ecael classic.

[Sursion]

Win ^

[CroGamer002]

Shandepared wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

What, nobody will comment on this?

I commented a page or two back.

My bad, didn't notice.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar,

I'm sorry man but your wrong. Completely wrong. Why would Bioware make you have to start over with a new team? It would make absolutely no sense at all. Did you not read my post above? What proof or materials do you have to suggest that they'd drop the squad in ME3? I've given my reasons and my evidence to support it. What do you have that makes you so sure that ME3 will have an entirely new squad?

-Polite

Awakening is all the proof you need.

How so? These are two totally different franchises. Dragon age wasn't conceived as a trilogy, Mass Effect is. Mass Effect had a chapter in a 3 part series dedicated to building a team and getting to know them/ getting them loyal. Dragon Age didn't. 

So by your logic, Dragon age has DLC that lets you play as the enemy, are you saying that just because they have that, that there will be a DLC that lets you play as Collectors? Like I said above, the developers stressed that this game was about the characters. It wouldn't make any sense to get rid of those characters just to have an easy coding experience. Like i quoted and linked above, Casey Hudson said that with all of the permutations for ME2's ending, the importing and decisions are very hard. They're doing it. I'm not saying that your entire squad is going to be with you, but you will not get an entirely new squad.

The only ones who will most likely leave will be Zaeed and Kasumi. Because they're really not part of the "character driven" game in the sense that you cannot have dialogue with them. You can't converse. Although given their popularity, I could see Bioware giving them normal squad roles in ME3. That's a possibility. 

-Polite

[CroGamer002]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

Everything I wanted to say.

So instead, I'll just toss up an Ecael classic.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Dragon Age: Awakening continues the Main Story of Origins. Because all of the characters could die none of them transferred over except for the one that is almost impossible to kill without cheating: Oghren.



THe DLC of Origins is a different factor as they seem to be taking more the NWN route

[II Sl4sh3r II]

adneate wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

I don't see how this scenario is any less feasible than yours.

Finally somebody sane in this thread, kudos sir for actually making sense unlike the idiot OP.

[II Sl4sh3r II]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar,

I'm sorry man but your wrong. Completely wrong. Why would Bioware make you have to start over with a new team? It would make absolutely no sense at all. Did you not read my post above? What proof or materials do you have to suggest that they'd drop the squad in ME3? I've given my reasons and my evidence to support it. What do you have that makes you so sure that ME3 will have an entirely new squad?

-Polite

Awakening is all the proof you need.

Awakening is an expansion and there are concrete reasons why a lot of companions didn't return. 
Alistair - King of Ferelden or hates you
Morrigan - Has the demon child and is on the run
Wynne - Has Circle of Magi duties to attend to
Leliana - Not sure
Zevran - Not sure
Sten - Explained that after he helped you he'd go back to his home land/country
Dog - No idea... lol
Shale - Explained that he'd help you save Ferelden and then he was off to discover the world

All in all though... The threat in Dragon Age was wiped out.  The Archdemon was killed... Why would your companions stick around when the threat is gone? Awakening was a twist on the story. Dragon Age was a huge success and
this twist allows them to create another game. ME1 and 2 characters are still aware that the Reapers are coming...  And Mass Effect was always meant to be a Trilogy.  Dragon Age.. not so much.

Modifié par II Sl4sh3r II, 07 juillet 2010 - 11:32 .

[IoCaster]

rpg_guy01 wrote...
It's basically the question if we want to end up with having to recruit 10 - 12 new squad members and having to make them loyal  OR get the old squadmembers back that are loyal so the developers can concentrate on more story missions.

No need for recruitment or loyalty missions for new members. That was for ME2 and constituted the bulk of the story and gameplay for it. There's absolutely no reason to believe that ME3 will be structured along the same theme.

rpg_guy01 wrote...
I for one would buy the third installment at bargain prices if they choose for the first option. The recruit setup was fine for the first installment and made logic in the second, but I can see no real reason why everyone needs to split for the third. Logically speaking why would anyone leave when the real fight is just beginning (I will admit that Zaeed could possibly leave for having done what bargained for, but then again why leave if you know that a race of highly advanced machines is coming to harvest your molecules if not stopped).

For any reason that the writers would care to contrive. Liara, Ash/Kaiden and even Wrex know about the Reapers. The same argument could be made that they would realize the danger and put aside whatever they're doing to help Shepard. It didn't stop the writers from sidelining them in ME2.

rpg_guy01 wrote...
Ofcourse I can understand that if you have lost members in suicide mission that your team would me smaller, but that is more being punished for not upgrading. Also if you would say  "Hey they can't return because they CAN die in suicide mission" you walk a slippery slope of reason as you would also not be able to play Shepard, seeing as also he can die () .

That's an awkward and profound display of faulty logic. BioWare deliberately structured the game in such a way that you could literally get most of your squad killed. EA/BioWare are not interested in punishing their customers for legitimate gameplay choices that they make. A game that ends with Shepard dead will not be imported into ME3.

Modifié par IoCaster, 07 juillet 2010 - 11:36 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

BUt that doesn't explain why Oghren would stick around. The only ones that would stick around would be Zevran, who expresses interest to help the Wardens and Leliana if you romanced her.



Oghren takes a demotion to appear in Awakening for no reason. The only actual reason, is cost.



Also the Dog thing was stupid

[Bluko]

snfonseka wrote...
It is obvious that not all of the squad mates from ME2 will be there. For example lets say 5 are returning... then with another 2 from ME1 (another example value) the total will become 7. Then if there are 5 new characters the entire squad will be 12. So the player who save his entire squad will have 12 members and the player who don't will have 7 members.

Sure they could do that. I mean Bioware could make like 6 new characters for ME3 and then have 6 old characters return or something like that. But the thing about this like you said some people could have a squad of 6 and others could have squad 12. Nevermind the fact that this creates an imbalance, but why would Bioware waste time creating characters for ME3 that some people will never ever play with? And how would they handle default Shepard for new players?

Would it just be meant as a reward to people who played ME1 and ME2 and kept everyone alive?

I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate that cause I usually try to save everyone in my playthrus, but look what they did in ME2. For example it really didn't effect the game whether or not you saved the Council. Sure some dialogue changed and what not, but overall there was no major effect.

All I'm saying is don't expect ME3 to be vastly different. Honestly I doubt saving the Collector or destroying the Collector Base will have any serious reprecussions in ME3. About all I expect is some NPCs will comment "Good for you!" or "Shame on you!" depending on which choice you made. The same applies to squadmates. I don't think keeping my entire crew alive will have a major impact on ME3. The only thing that will change is instead of meeting one of the old crewmates, you'll meet someone else that fills their place. Much like with Wrex and Urdnot Wreav.

[Wynne]

I'm all for pessimism, as it's the only way to be pleasantly surprised, but this assumption is just... fail to the point of utter trolling, OP. Bioware = not stupid. They aren't going to alienate a humongous fanbase by leaving out already established, beloved characters for whom they wouldn't have to write a whole new background, introduce, etc. This is the LAST GAME IN THE SERIES. That means they pull out all the stops; no ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

A far more reasonable fear is that they will stretch themselves too thin and not include sufficient content for certain characters, such as I feel happened with Garrus and Thane in particular in ME2. I would've preferred they leave out Jacob as an LI; I liked him, but the interactions between him and Shepard were pretty shallow, honestly. ("Priiiize...") I would've rather had Garrus calibrate the guns a little less and Thane do less talking about his family.

They may leave out certain truly unpopular characters in the last installment, but the ME1 love interests at the very least are in--FAR too many people have wailed about it even before the release of ME2, and you know what happened after people clamored for Tali and Garrus as love interests.

Bioware listens to their fans. They know what makes them so successful. They would have to be insane to not include any ME1 or ME2 squadmates--that would be career suicide. They'd never hear the end of it, and probably if the fan outcry got to be enough and Bioware wouldn't listen, EA would put pressure on them. Nobody is going to be making a decision that ridiculous. It's utterly out of character for Bioware anyway, like Britney Spears becoming a physics professor or Bill Gates becoming a Chippendale's dancer.

Bioware has always been the type to have their own vision, but also to LISTEN to what their audience hopes for and wants to see. They may not execute everything equally well, but sure as hell try, and get better at it every time. ME3 is sure to be the best of the lot.

Modifié par Wynne, 08 juillet 2010 - 12:04 .

[SmokePants]

IoCaster wrote...

For any reason that the writers would
care to contrive. Liara, Ash/Kaiden and even Wrex know about the
Reapers. The same argument could be made that they would realize the
danger and put aside whatever they're doing to help Shepard. It didn't
stop the writers from sidelining them in ME2.

Exactly. Bioware can write characters off in any number of ways. If you can't imagine how, then you need to get your imagination checked.

Is it really that hard to imagine the characters fighting the Reapers in their own way, outside of direct Sheperd supervision? They could be leading their own teams or gathering support. They don't have to retire to Florida to leave Sheperd's command. In fact, I think it would be interesting to play the game and find out what everyone is up to as I go along, instead of having them all still on my ship, exactly where I left them, not having much to tell me because I'd been with them the whole time. How boring.

Modifié par SmokePants, 08 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[IoCaster]

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
 ME3 squad will be entirely old and here's why and how.

1.) Ever heard the expression "to fiddle while Rome burns"?: from a storytelling perspective it would be borderline retarded to waste nearly the entire game recruiting a whole new cast while the galaxy is in the middle of a full blown reaper invasion. There is no time for recruitment you fool!!! and there's even less time/potential at this late stage for (new) character development. (I maintain the main cast has already been fully fleshed out in ME & ME2 for precisely this reason)[/quote]

From a storytelling perspective it's beyond retarded to kill off your protagonist and immediately resurrect him/her in the first 15 minutes of the game. It's an absolutely ridiculous contrivance that was seemingly orchestrated for the sole purpose of forcing him/her into a state of indentured servitude to Cerberus.

The surviving ME squad are fully aware of the Reaper threat and rather than doing the 'sensible' thing and helping Shepard in ME2, they get sidelined by the writers.

As far as recruiting a new squad is concerned it's a simple matter of introducing them and saying "Hey Shep, here's your new squad". No recruitment or loyalty missions are required.

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
2.) Closure: Nobody wants to them to waste both their and our time on new characters with very limited potential to be fleshed out at the expense of spending our final days with series fan favs we may never ever see again. A final send off/fitting tribute or it will be colossal mistake.[/quote]

I seriously doubt that EA/BioWare are interested in wasting resources on developing characters that may very well be dead. It's much more efficient and cost effective to use those resources on new characters that they know positively will be alive for every one of their customers. Brief cameos and emails from surviving ME2 squad members is a cheap alternative. From a business perspective that's the most sensible solution.

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
3.) Deja Vu. What was the point of ME2 again? To recruit THE 12 deadliest propagators of badassery in the entire galaxy. Period. Why 12? Because unless you have a serious mental condition you're guaranteed to have at least a handful survive AND have at least 2 returning from ME1 (Liara + Ashley or Kaidan)...[/quote]

The point of recruiting these 12 over-hyped comic book 'heroes' was to provide cannon fodder for an assault on the Collector Base. The "Suicide Mission" that was very prominently marketed and hyped for months before the games release. I don't recall any interview by the devs that stated that they were destined to become a permanent squad for ME3. If I missed this infamous interview, then please be kind enough to provide a link.

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
4.) The combination of which is supposed to vary in accordance with your past choices - it's what makes my game different from yours = consequences: [/quote]

These same consequences that you rely on are the mechanism by which it's logical to reason that there are too many different permutations to account for in bringing these characters back as squad members in ME3.

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
5.) Your past choices are irrelevant to the default cannon however (see ME2):  they don't die unless you made a mistake in your game(s) and contrary to popular misconception the full cast return will equate to in my estimation 10 characters which is not unwieldy or un-managable:[/quote]

If I decide to kill off 10 of my squad on the 'suicide mission' it's hardly irrelevant. It's a legitimate choice that the devs enabled for any player. Is it possible that some people aren't aware that BioWare knew what they were doing when they designed the 'suicide mission'?

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
The default roster for ME3 for new players will be (in order of first appearance):

1. Ashley or Kaidan (depending on Shep's Sex see Virmire default option in ME2)
2. Garrus
3. Tali
4. Liara
5. Miranda
6. Jacob
7. Mordin
8. Jack
9. Grunt
10. Thane

*Legion critically important cameo role... however in default he will be exchanged to Cerberus/Spaced without playing ME2)
*Samara cameo'd for Liara (2 Asari is overkill/unnecessary)
*Kasumi cameo'd as completely optional combined with potential death
**Zaeed cameo'd

Your roster will vary slightly from the default (Ash or Kaidan + deaths) leaving you with bare minimum of 4 characters if you totally suck at Mass Effect (2 ME2 + 2 ME1) or a maximum of 10 if all have survived up to this point.

Further dlc characters will probably be released in post release content to bring this total up to 12 primarily catering to those heavy on casualties.[/quote]

It's nice to want things, but you might be well advised to prepare to be disappointed.

[quote]Guanxii wrote...
I don't see how this scenario is any less feasible than yours.[/quote]

The fact that any or most of the ME2 squad can be killed off on the 'suicide mission' makes one hypothesis more likely than the other. *shrug*














[/quote]

Modifié par IoCaster, 08 juillet 2010 - 12:25 .

[Bluko]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Hey look, it's someone who was butthurt over Me2 who spends hours of their life trying to convince other people who enjoyed the game that no matter what they will be disappointed with the third one. How little of a life does someone have to have to spend all this time and effort to try and force others to vicariously live through their disappointment? Does the thought of other people having fun and enjoying a commercially and critically acclaimed product really instill such insecurity in some people?

Meh whatever. It's funner just to point and laugh instead.

LOL okay I'm not "butthurt" as you put it over ME2. I liked ME2 just as much as ME1.

And I'm not trying to force my ideas onto others to make them miserable. In fact I'd like to think I'm doing the opposite. What if Bioware does as I've predicted? I'm sure many, myself included, will be angry that their favorite character isn't returning as a squadmate for ME3. However by acknowledging that this may indeed happen I hope to lessen the impact if it should come to that. But I by no means claim that I am right or "know best". I simply made my case and gave reasons as to why I think that may happen.

True enough you could say I'm a pessimist, but I prefer to be pleasantly surprised over thoroughly disappointed.

[Il Divo]

Bluko wrote...

LOL okay I'm not "butthurt" as you put it over ME2. I liked ME2 just as much as ME1.

And I'm not trying to force my ideas onto others to make them miserable. In fact I'd like to think I'm doing the opposite. What if Bioware does as I've predicted? I'm sure many, myself included, will be angry that their favorite character isn't returning as a squadmate for ME3. However by acknowledging that this may indeed happen I hope to lessen the impact if it should come to that. But I by no means claim that I am right or "know best". I simply made my case and gave reasons as to why I think that may happen.

True enough you could say I'm a pessimist, but I prefer to be pleasantly surprised over thoroughly disappointed.

Don't bother, you've as much right to an opinion as anyone else and shouldn't have to justify what is merely a discussion.

Modifié par Il Divo, 08 juillet 2010 - 12:26 .

[earthbornFemShep]

smudboy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Why make all new squadmates for the conclusion of the trilogy?

BioWare has said many times that in game 3 they can really let all the pieces fall where they may and just go crazy with these outcomes.

I think people make the mistake of thinking that just because continuity was an issue in ME2, which was the middle of the trilogy and had to hold it all in, that it will also be an issue in ME3, which is the end of the series and can let it all hang out.

If we're going from A->B->C, and B ends up being X, then how the hell are you going to get to C now?  ME3 can be wtf BioWare wants it to be, just like ME2, continuity be damned.  It could very well go to C, but there's little to no indication that it will.  Give em some cameos, emails and retcons if the square peg doesn't fit: seemed to work just fine in ME2.

Okay, so maybe the emails and cameos worked in ME2, but here is the only reason it worked for me:  there is a promise that those characters would return in ME3.  I accepted their minor cameos because Kaiden/Ashley and Liara were being "saved" for a large role in ME3. 

But yeah, it seems like a waste to go through all of that trouble in ME2 to collect, gain the loyalty, and keep alive your teammates through the entire game... just to blank slate them in ME3.  In ME2, the entire squad is dedicated to stopping the Collectors and, therefore, the reapers.  It doesn't make sense for them to just jump ship in ME3 and say, "oh yeah, I've got other s**t to do.  Good luck with that whole saving the galaxy from that 'reaper' stuff."

For me... I want the A->B->C...  

Landline wrote...

One thing to remember.

Talking about how the ME1 LI's were sidelined in ME2 is not evidence that the same will happen to the ME2 LIs in ME3.

When
the ME1 LIs were sidelined in ME2 they still had another game to make
up for it, if the ME2 LIs are sidelined there is no hope of redemption,
it will be the end of the line

Exactly!

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I haven't read all the responses in this topic, but I do think they
have to accommodate for people who've killed off most of the squad
mates in ME2. So I guess they would have to bring back squad mates from
ME1 or have new squad mates to join you.

So would that
mean they would have writing and voice acting for 20+ squad mates? And
if Mordin, for example, didn't survive your game, his voice actor
wouldn't even be heard in certain games.

Now hold on... can you honestly tell me that gamers only play ME2 once?   I'm sure most people have replayed the game and have different outcomes (different survivors/deaths).  Therefore, it wouldn't be a waste to fill out the main characters' stories.  The whole point of the Mass Effect series is to have choices that matter and make the game different for every player/play-type.  This gives the game incredible replay value. 

I know just because my favorite Shepard lost Jack and Tali on the suicide mission, does not mean that I think giving them squadmate status in ME3 would be a mistake.  On the contrary, I think that that all the main characters should be brought back in meaningful ways and have their stories flushed out.  

In short, keep newbs at a minimum and bring back those great characters from ME1 and ME2.

[Docbrown777]

All I want is to reunite my perfect squad from ME1. Shepard, Garrus and Liara. We were the perfect team and no one could stop us.

[Inquisitor Recon]

This is blasphemy! This is madness!

Honestly, it would be stupid for Shepard to recruit an entirely new team yet again.

[Docbrown777]

I bet there will be some brief recruiting or the option to recruit at the start of the game. Basically the developers saying "If you want Liara, Ashley/Kaden or Wrex on your team here is your chance.



It doesn't have to be as in depth as ME2's recruiting. Remember ME1's recruiting was basically walking up to the character and having a short conversation and bingo they were on your team. With the exception of Liara where getting her was an entire mission. Speaking of which I get the feeling there will be an entire mission regarding her in ME3. It's been pointed out more then enough times that she is the only major character that will definitely still be alive in ME3.

[Bluko]

Wynne wrote...
I'm all for pessimism, as it's the only way to be pleasantly surprised, but this assumption is just... fail to the point of utter trolling, OP. Bioware = not stupid. They aren't going to alienate a humongous fanbase by leaving out already established, beloved characters for whom they wouldn't have to write a whole new background, introduce, etc. This is the LAST GAME IN THE SERIES. That means they pull out all the stops; no ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

I'm not trying to troll here, although yes I'm aware the idea I'm advocating isn't exactly popular.

I too use to think that Bioware would by any means bring back everyone's favorite characters as squadmates again in ME3. The only problem is this results in a gameplay balance nightmare for ME3. As a Dev my first priority is likely going to be building a balanced and fun game. After that comes story, which is usually used to explain the gameplay decision anyways.

I'm 100% sure all the fan favorite characters and LIs will make appearences in Mass Effect. I'm a positive that Garrus, Tali, Miranda, Jack, Thane, Jacob, Liara, and Ashley/Kaidan will all be in ME3. I just don't think they will squadmates again.


Would having all new squadmates for ME3 truly be that terrible? Were't most of the squadmates in ME2 new characters with the exceptions of Tali and Garrus? Bioware has a trend and that is new games/sequels have new party members. It's just the reality of game development. I don't think Bioware is going to go all out just to do us fan service with the characters. That Bioware actually lets you import saves from the prvious games with all your decisions carrying over is already pretty amazing "fan service" if you ask me. Expecting more is just being kind of selfish.

That said I have no doubt ME3 will likely be the best game of the series.