2338 réponses à ce sujet

[snfonseka]

McBeath wrote...

Casey Hudson has even admitted that they use data collected when we log online to make decisions like this. For example, if nobody completed a certain quest I bet we'll see an email in ME3, nothing more. But if everybody completes it in all thier playthroughts it's likely to be mentioned. The writers use this info to decide what avenues the side stories take. Same with characters. If everybody keeps Tali then she'll be in ME3. Same with Lawson(they may have a contract with her voice actor, so that may indeed guarentee her in 3).

People seem to forget that BIOWARE is a company, and there first priority is to turn a profit.

So, if 95% of the customer base wants to see the "whole team back", and only 5% want to get new characters(or 95% had a full survival playthrough/5% killed crew) who do you think they'll cater too? It's pretty simple business to me.

If people don't get that concept then I truly hope that they never become CEO's of the companies that I hold stocks in...

^This

[Elyvern]

Also, please keep in mind that NOT all aspects of game creation are made equal. Writing? Apart from the need to find good writers, writing is in fact one of the cheapest aspects of making a game (the quality of that writing is another matter all together, mind you) Likewise, voice actor contracts and voice recording are also relatively cheap. It's things like coding, design and rendering that guzzles money.

[McBeath]

Boombox wrote...

I think Sapienti makes some very good points! I would love for Bioware to include atleast half of the ME2 squadmates, Ash/Kaidan, Liara and mix it up with a few new ones. I think it's totally possible but of course it'll be a lot easier just to make a whole new squad.. So fingers crossed..

Why would it be easier to make a whole new squad?  What does our current squad really do? 

They have a fixed dialog wheel on the normandy.  So, the game just lets us play through 5+ differnent conversations given to us in a strict order.  Easy to do.  They just don't have to mention certain things for certain characters.  While I'd like to have Miranda mention how I destroyed the collector base I don't need every character to.  All they have to do is mention things from ME3 that I'm doing to make me feel that they're believable.

They offer small comments and little one liners in battle.   They can still do this in ME3.  All they have to do is have a dozen prerecorded lines that they add in based on my choice of squad, just like ME2.  Easy.

What's not easy is redoing all that pre-character stuff, like background, balancing, creating the image, ect.  Why waste time and money on that?  If anything it's MORE work(and therefore harder) to make a new team.

If you don't have them due to death, you loose out on those dialoge options.  That's it.  Doesn't effect the plot. 

[smudboy]

McBeath wrote...

Casey Hudson has even admitted that they use data collected when we log online to make decisions like this. For example, if nobody completed a certain quest I bet we'll see an email in ME3, nothing more. But if everybody completes it in all thier playthroughts it's likely to be mentioned. The writers use this info to decide what avenues the side stories take. Same with characters. If everybody keeps Tali then she'll be in ME3. Same with Lawson(they may have a contract with her voice actor, so that may indeed guarentee her in 3).

From a recent article on ME2 and ME3:
"Hudson said that Bioware wouldn't be reinventing its action-RPG approach with the third game - which the studio has already started work on."  -> so we can assume that they've begun that task of scripting the plot points out.  Add that Christina Norman was asking players for feedback on the heavy weapons gameplay for tweeking. 

From a different article:
"Speaking to CVG in London yesterday, Muzyka wasn't keen to discuss comments made earlier this month that the third game could arrive as soon as late 2011." -> The timetable for the third is not far off.  They have no plans to change the engine or gameplay significantly, they have admitted as much.  I doubt they'll invest MORE MONEY and time(which face it, is money) to add a new cast of characters when they have a nice amount of different ones already.  Why waste resources when they can just leave the characters we have and focus on plot and DLC(which is a cash cow)?  It's just a good business decision.

People seem to forget that BIOWARE is a business, and as such there first priority is to turn a profit.  They do this by catering to the wants/needs of a consumer base.

So, if 95% of the customer base wants to see the "whole team back", and only 5% want to get new characters(or 95% had a full survival playthrough/5% killed crew) who do you think they'll cater too? It's pretty simple business to me.

If people don't get that concept then I truly hope that they never become CEO's of the companies that I hold stocks in...

All you're saying is they'll bring back characters that are alive.  You're not saying how or under what conditions (fully fledged squadmates, cameos, placeholders, etc.)

Hey.  Guess what?  They're bringing back the characters.  That didn't die.  If you didn't kill them off.  Because that's one instance of the dynamic variables that the system must account for on import.

Did you know BioWare is a business?  That implies they want to make the most money out of the least amount of effort, as fast as possible.  Is it easier to make a few static characters that serve a specific, non-dynamic role, or somehow cram variable dynamic characters that may not even be alive into some kind of potential squadmate/cameo/placeholder roles?  Where's the ROI for 12 fluffy removable squadmates of variable potential development, or 5 or 6 static ones?

Oh, and we are getting new squadmates:
"Mordin was one of the more popular ones.
I think the development of some of the existing characters people
continued to enjoy, like the stuff with Garrus and Tali. We always try
to balance the fact that, people will say "I want all my characters
back from the previous game because that's what made the first game
great." But when you think about it, part of what made the previous
game great is the process of meeting those characters for the first
time. That has to be part of the experience too, how you meet new
characters."

[epoch_]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


That said, I do think, that some ME2 squadmates will be recruitable (Garrus and Tali probably). But not in the default scenario and they will not be on the ME3 disk. They will be Zaeed-like DLC. Included exclusively in the Collector's Edition.

Except they won't make some potential LI's squad mates and not others. Judging by ME2, they're nothing if not fair to old romance options.

Modifié par epoch_, 13 août 2010 - 03:00 .

[smudboy]

McBeath wrote...
Why would it be easier to make a whole new squad?  What does our current squad really do? 

They have a fixed dialog wheel on the normandy.  So, the game just lets us play through 5+ differnent conversations given to us in a strict order.  Easy to do.  They just don't have to mention certain things for certain characters.  While I'd like to have Miranda mention how I destroyed the collector base I don't need every character to.  All they have to do is mention things from ME3 that I'm doing to make me feel that they're believable.

They offer small comments and little one liners in battle.   They can still do this in ME3.  All they have to do is have a dozen prerecorded lines that they add in based on my choice of squad, just like ME2.  Easy.

What's not easy is redoing all that pre-character stuff, like background, balancing, creating the image, ect.  Why waste time and money on that?  If anything it's MORE work(and therefore harder) to make a new team.

If you don't have them due to death, you loose out on those dialoge options.  That's it.  Doesn't effect the plot. 

So you're saying they won't tell a story because it's more work?  How is it more work if we throw away 12 variable squadmates and replace them with 6 new ones?

[lazuli]

smudboy wrote...


So you're saying they won't tell a story because it's more work?  How is it more work if we throw away 12 variable squadmates and replace them with 6 new ones?

There might be more work involved with handling the fan fallout from such a decision.

[epoch_]

lazuli wrote...

smudboy wrote...


So you're saying they won't tell a story because it's more work?  How is it more work if we throw away 12 variable squadmates and replace them with 6 new ones?

There might be more work involved with handling the fan fallout from such a decision.

You saw what happened when they announced we'd be playing as Hawke in DA2. It won't be any worse than that.

[McBeath]

@ SMUDBOY

So, I'm a little confused. You seem to argue that my point(or opinion) is wrong because I feel that Bioware is a company that will "make that most money with the least effort" then go on to say that my point(and opinion) is wrong because Bioware will "won't tell a story because it's more work(and money)"? Not sure how to respond to these other than how I already have.

As for meeting new characters, Casey Hudson has stated that Mass Effect is Shepard's story, a trilogy. It's not a 30 hour experience of meeting new characters. IF looked at not as a stand alone game and instead as the final installment what can we expect? Game one introduces us to the main character and villians, game two set's the stage for the final battle and game three wraps it all up neatly.

What's plain for me to see(and fortunately others as well) is that it's easier, more cost effective and more believable to have our squadmates return. Why, as Shepard, would I want somebody I've never met before following me into certain death when I can instead have a person that I trust. Same for the characters, is it not more likely that Garrus, who knows that stakes and is attached to Shepard would be willing to fight on his/her side instead of some wondering adventurer I pick up in a pub on Omega? Really?

Modifié par McBeath, 13 août 2010 - 03:12 .

[smudboy]

McBeath wrote...
As for meeting new characters, Casey Hudson has stated that Mass Effect is Shepard's story, a trilogy. It's not a 30 hour experience of meeting new characters. IF looked at not as a stand alone game and instead as the final installment what can we expect? Game one introduces us to the main character and villians, game two set's the stage for the final battle and game three wraps it all up neatly.

I fail to see what point you're making here.

Casey also said we'll get new characters.

Game 2 did no such thing.

What's plain for me to see(and fortunately others as well) is that it's easier, more cost effective and more believable to have our squadmates return. Why, as Shepard, would I want somebody I've never met before following me into certain death when I can instead have a person that I trust. Same for the characters, is it not more likely that Garrus, who knows that stakes and is attached to Shepard would be willing to fight on his/her side instead of some wondering adventurer I pick up in a pub on Omega? Really?

But they can all die.  If they can all die, then BioWare, as a company, would be wasting resources on assets that not everyone will have access to.  So you can't just have characters that can die/can not even be recruited/can not even be imported, just because you think it's more cost effective, or something.

It's simpler, and cheaper, and would take less work, and less time, to have static assets.

Yes, it is more likely that Garrus would stay with Shepard.  But not if he's dead.

"Really?" Wow, you just described ME2.

[implodinggoat]

Here's my take...

The likely hood of a squadmember returning for ME3 depends on several variables.

• How likely are they to be alive in ME3.
• How popular are they.
• Were they a potential love interest.
• Storywise are they more needed elsewhere.
• Were they DLC characters.

With those considerations in mind....

Probability that a Squad Member Returns as A Squad Member not just an NPC.

Damn Near Certain

Liara: There's no way for her to die in ME1 or ME2.  She's popular.  She was a love interest.  Storywise the reasons for her not being on your crew in ME2 were questionable at best and are likely to be resolved by the Shadowbroker DLC.
Miranda:  There's no way for her to die in ME2 unless Shepard dies too in which case the save can't be imported anyway. She's popular, she was a love interest and storywise it makes sense that she would be on your crew in ME3.

High Probability

Tali:   There's a decent chance she can die in ME2; but she's very popular and has some fanatical fans.  She was a love interest and storywise it makes sense that she would want to stay on board the Normandy.
Garrus:  There's a decent chance he can die in ME2; but he's quite popular.  He was a love interest and storywise it makse sense that he would want to stay on board the Normandy.

50/50 odds.

Grunt:  There's a decent chance he can die in ME2; but he's popular.  He wasn't a love interest (thank God); but storywise it makes sense that he would want to stay on board the Normandy since Shepard is his battlemaster.
Mordin:  He's suprisingly easy to get killed in ME2; but he's very popular.  He wasn't a love interest; but storywise it makes sense that he would want to stay on board since he considers serving on the Normandy a good way to spend his final years.  That said the player's ability to influence him towards trying to cure the Genophage gives him a lot of storyline potential if he's not on board the Normandy.

Fairly Low Probability.

Jack:  Also suprising easy to get killed in ME2, she's a love her or hate her sort of character and generally unpopular.  That said she was a love interest and storywise it makes sense that she might stay on board since she bascially has nothing else to do with her life; but its hard to believe she'd want to stay on board if Shepard becomes a Cerberus lapdog.
Samara/Morinth:  Decent chance she can die in ME2; but Samara is quite popular although the fact that Mornith is decididly less popular and would recquire her own dialogue hurts her chances.  They were both potential love interests although ultimately dead end love interests.  If Shepard is a Pargon Samara says she'd be happy to continue serving after the mission; but if he's not she probably wouldn't want to come back and Morinth would rather be serial killing.
Thane:  Decent chance he can die in ME2; but he's popular.  Plus he's a potential love interest; but the fact that he's knocking on death's door regardless of whether he survives ME2 makes it seem unlikely that he'd be able to return as a squad member.  Add to that the drama potential of seeing him on his death bed in ME3 and storywise it seems unlikely that he'll return.

Low Probability

Jacob: Pretty decent chance of him dying in ME2
particularly since he volunteers for a job that will get him killed if
you don't have the good sense to assign some one more qualified.  He is a
love interest and it makes perfect sense for him to stay onboard the
Normandy after ME2.  Ultimately though he's just a very unpopular
character and that alone makes it unlikely that he'll come back as a
squad member.
Legion:  You straight up have an
option to hand him over to Cerberus, although I doubt many people
actually did so.  Aside from that he's pretty damned easy to get killed
and he joins your crew so late in ME2 that it's hard to really get
attached to him.  He's not a love interest and he's not particularly
popular, although he's not particularly unpoplar either.  Storywise he
really doesn't have enough personality to stay interesting as a fully
fledged squad member through 2 games; but as an ambassador for the Geth
he has a lot of story potential as an NPC.

Very Low Probability

Wrex:  My favorite squadmember, sadly he has a very low chance of returning to the crew in ME3.  Wrex is immensly popular; but he has a lot going against him.  Even though most people who imported a save from ME1 managed to keep him alive, the fact that he's dead in the default "canon" storyline that people who didn't import an ME1 save get makes it seem highly unlikely that he's coming back since he's dead for anyone who didn't play ME1.  Add to that the fact that if he is alive he's the leader of the Krogan and it doesn't even make sense from a story perspective that he'd even be able to join Shepard's crew again.
Ashley/Kaiden:  Both of them are modestly popular and they were both potential love interests although the events of ME2 seemed like they may have put an end to the relationship.  But the big problem with both of them is that one of them IS dead, not maybe dead; but IS dead.  So it just doesn't make sense for Bioware to devote the resources to creating a squadmate who half the people playing the game will never see.

Snowball's Chance In Hell

Zaeed:  The biggest strike against Zaeed is that he's a DLC character and thus isn't even part of the game for a lot of people.  That said Zaeed's DLC is included with every new copy of ME2 by default; but he's not particularly popular and storywise the only reason he's serving with Shepard to begin with is because the Illusive Man is paying him to, so it doesn't really make sense for him to be staying on board in ME3 particularly if Shepard breaks ties with Cerberus in ME2.
Kasumi:  Like Zaeed she's a DLC character and even worse she's a paid DLC character that doesn't come along with each new copy of ME2.  She is pretty popular and depending on how you played out her loyalty mission it might make sense for her to want to stay on board; but ultimately she's a thief and it makes sense that she'd want to get back to thieving.

[epoch_]

implodinggoat wrote...
[*]Miranda:  There's no way for her to die in ME2 unless Shepard dies too in which case the save can't be imported anyway. She's popular, she was a love interest and storywise it makes sense that she would be on your crew in ME3.

[*] 
[*]edit: Also, while I don't think ashley/kaidan have any chance at all to return (just like all the squad mates), with them, unlike all the other squad mates besides liara, at least one of the two are alive. That's for certain. So it'd actually be more productive of them to develop the Virmire Survivor than any one of the other squad mates. (besides liara). Writing wise, they could easily get away saying almost exactly the same lines. But the point's moot as none of them will be returning anyways.

Modifié par epoch_, 13 août 2010 - 03:33 .

[SmokePants]

McBeath wrote...

So, if 95% of the customer base wants to see the "whole team back", and only 5% want to get new characters(or 95% had a full survival playthrough/5% killed crew) who do you think they'll cater too? It's pretty simple business to me.

It has nothing to do with "want". I'd like Tali, Grunt, Mordin, and Garrus back. It has everything to do with whether it is "do-able". 95% of the population could vote to set up a colony on Mars by 2020, it doesn't mean it can happen. And if we tried to force it to happen, the mission would most likely result in disaster. Something is going to go wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if it blew up on the launch pad.

So, you start working all this uncertainty and complecity into ME3 and what's going to happen? It blows up in our faces. You think people were ****ing about the ME2 plot holes? Oh, just you wait and see the tangled, spaghettified mess of a continuity nightmare that "95%" want to see ME3 become. That is, if BioWare didn't know better than us. Thankfully, they do.

What I want to see and what everyone should want to see, above anything else,  is a great third act that fits right in with the other two and doesn't drop the ball or screw the pooch.

[Zulu_DFA]

snfonseka wrote...

McBeath wrote...

Casey Hudson has even admitted that they use data collected when we log online to make decisions like this. For example, if nobody completed a certain quest I bet we'll see an email in ME3, nothing more. But if everybody completes it in all thier playthroughts it's likely to be mentioned. The writers use this info to decide what avenues the side stories take. Same with characters. If everybody keeps Tali then she'll be in ME3. Same with Lawson(they may have a contract with her voice actor, so that may indeed guarentee her in 3).

People seem to forget that BIOWARE is a company, and there first priority is to turn a profit.

So, if 95% of the customer base wants to see the "whole team back", and only 5% want to get new characters(or 95% had a full survival playthrough/5% killed crew) who do you think they'll cater too? It's pretty simple business to me.

If people don't get that concept then I truly hope that they never become CEO's of the companies that I hold stocks in...

^This

90% of people want smaller and more interactive squad.

SmokePants wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That said, I do think, that some ME2 squadmates will be recruitable (Garrus and Tali probably). But not in the default scenario and they will not be on the ME3 disk. They will be Zaeed-like DLC. Included exclusively in the Collector's Edition.

I suspect that would do more to tick people off than to appease them.

When they already buy the game it won't matter.

SmokePants wrote...
And even characters like Zaeed and Kasumi are more work than people think. My view is that they either do it right or don't do it at all and there's really no feasible way of doing it right.

Same here, but the"fanbase" clearly does not understand it. So they are just banging their tambourines tempting EA/BioWare to capitalize on them. And the most popular charaters will get the worst of it.

[Wittand25]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Same here, but the"fanbase" clearly does not understand it. So they are just banging their tambourines tempting EA/BioWare to capitalize on them. And the most popular charaters will get the worst of it.

I think that Bioware as a company is well aware that the "fanbase" here on the social site is a tiny minority of their customer base, and that a good game with good writing and high review scores makes better profit than a half hearted fan service. They might throw the fanbase a bone like they did with the Tali romance, but they definitely wont spend the resources that it would take to satisfy the I-want-the-whole-squad-back crowd.

[implodinggoat]

epoch_ wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
[*]Miranda:  There's no way for her to die in ME2 unless Shepard dies too in which case the save can't be imported anyway. She's popular, she was a love interest and storywise it makes sense that she would be on your crew in ME3.

[*] 
edit: Also, while I don't think ashley/kaidan have any chance at all to return (just like all the squad mates), with them, unlike all the other squad mates besides liara, at least one of the two are alive. That's for certain. So it'd actually be more productive of them to develop the Virmire Survivor than any one of the other squad mates. (besides liara). Writing wise, they could easily get away saying almost exactly the same lines. But the point's moot as none of them will be returning anyways.

Fine, I suppose since she can die I'd downgrade Miranda to a high probability along side Tali and Garrus.

As to the Virmire Survivors, true one of them is alive; but I'd bet you that most of the people who beat ME2 managed to get the no one left behind achievement and if they're importing a save its probably going to be that one.  So I'd say 50/50 odds of being alive doesn't help their chances.

Beyond that I just don't buy the argument that none of them are coming back. For starters it would ****** of the fans and those are the people buying Bioware's games and beyond that if ME3 is going to have a more substantial story than ME2 is the writers simply don't have the time to devote to introducing a ton of new characters.  We got 2 out of 6 ME1 squad members returning for ME2 and I'd bet on a similar ratio for ME3 about 1 in 3 which would be somewhere in the range of 3 to 5 returning squad members.

[Kasen]

smudboy wrote...

McBeath wrote...
As for meeting new characters, Casey Hudson has stated that Mass Effect is Shepard's story, a trilogy. It's not a 30 hour experience of meeting new characters. IF looked at not as a stand alone game and instead as the final installment what can we expect? Game one introduces us to the main character and villians, game two set's the stage for the final battle and game three wraps it all up neatly.

I fail to see what point you're making here.

Casey also said we'll get new characters.

Game 2 did no such thing.

What's plain for me to see(and fortunately others as well) is that it's easier, more cost effective and more believable to have our squadmates return. Why, as Shepard, would I want somebody I've never met before following me into certain death when I can instead have a person that I trust. Same for the characters, is it not more likely that Garrus, who knows that stakes and is attached to Shepard would be willing to fight on his/her side instead of some wondering adventurer I pick up in a pub on Omega? Really?

But they can all die.  If they can all die, then BioWare, as a company, would be wasting resources on assets that not everyone will have access to.  So you can't just have characters that can die/can not even be recruited/can not even be imported, just because you think it's more cost effective, or something.

It's simpler, and cheaper, and would take less work, and less time, to have static assets.

Yes, it is more likely that Garrus would stay with Shepard.  But not if he's dead.

"Really?" Wow, you just described ME2.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Bioware will decide to cut the entire ME2 team. Sure, they can all die, but I would go out on a limb to say that the majority of ME2 players will import a save where either all of the team or a majority survive. On top of that, it's easy for Bioware to assume that the team survives and make that the default for new players in ME3. Sure, not every player is going to have everyone survive, but to carry over any kind of save at all, SOMEONE has to survive.

Now, I also highly doubt that every squadmate will be in ME2, Kasumi and Zaeed in particular seem likely to get the ax seeing as they're DLC. I can imagine Mordin being taken off of active combat duty due to his age and taking up full time residence in the lab if he survives. If I'm not mistaken, Samara suggests that she intends to leave but can be called upon at a later time and well, Thane is on his death bed anyway - if I were to place a bet, I'd say if he survives ME2, he'll probably die of Kepral Syndrome halfway through ME3 (a cure would be a cop out in my view).

On the other side, you've got Garrus, Miranda and Jacob, who arguably have no place else to go. Grunt and Jack could go their own seperate ways, but something tells me they'll stick around. Tali and Legion are probably the most likely to play major roles in ME3 with the Quarians and Geth on the verge of another war. Speaking of Legion, there is so much that we can still learn from him, we've barely scratched the surface and so many questions remain unanswered.

[epoch_]

implodinggoat wrote...
[*]
Beyond that I just don't buy the argument that none of them are coming back. For starters it would ****** of the fans and those are the people buying Bioware's games and beyond that if ME3 is going to have a more substantial story than ME2 is the writers simply don't have the time to devote to introducing a ton of new characters.  We got 2 out of 6 ME1 squad members returning for ME2 and I'd bet on a similar ratio for ME3 about 1 in 3 which would be somewhere in the range of 3 to 5 returning squad members.

[*]whatever helps you sleep at night.

[smudboy]

implodinggoat wrote...

epoch_ wrote...Also, while I don't think ashley/kaidan have any chance at all to return (just like all the squad mates), with them, unlike all the other squad mates besides liara, at least one of the two are alive. That's for certain. So it'd actually be more productive of them to develop the Virmire Survivor than any one of the other squad mates. (besides liara). Writing wise, they could easily get away saying almost exactly the same lines. But the point's moot as none of them will be returning anyways.

Fine, I suppose since she can die I'd downgrade Miranda to a high probability along side Tali and Garrus.

As to the Virmire Survivors, true one of them is alive; but I'd bet you that most of the people who beat ME2 managed to get the no one left behind achievement and if they're importing a save its probably going to be that one.  So I'd say 50/50 odds of being alive doesn't help their chances.

Beyond that I just don't buy the argument that none of them are coming back. For starters it would ****** of the fans and those are the people buying Bioware's games and beyond that if ME3 is going to have a more substantial story than ME2 is the writers simply don't have the time to devote to introducing a ton of new characters.  We got 2 out of 6 ME1 squad members returning for ME2 and I'd bet on a similar ratio for ME3 about 1 in 3 which would be somewhere in the range of 3 to 5 returning squad members.

Maybe you're not understanding what epoch meant, or how the Suicide Mission works.

Every squadmate can die.  The only ones that can't are 2 random ones.

It's not a matter of what the fans want.  It's a matter of what hole BioWare has dug themselves into.  Short of Lazarus Project 2.0 per ME2 character, they can all die.  BioWare must take into account every instance of every dynamic variable on import.

The argument in this thread is how the survivors are coming back, and how ME3 will handle squadmates.  The most believable I've seen with evidence is 1) cameos.  The next are variations on placeholders, like plot placeholders, or functional plot squadmate placeholders (or ideas to that effect.)

[smudboy]

Kasen13 wrote...
I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Bioware will decide to cut the entire ME2 team. Sure, they can all die, but I would go out on a limb to say that the majority of ME2 players will import a save where either all of the team or a majority survive. On top of that, it's easy for Bioware to assume that the team survives and make that the default for new players in ME3. Sure, not every player is going to have everyone survive, but to carry over any kind of save at all, SOMEONE has to survive.

If they can all die, then BioWare must factor that instance of variables into ME3.

Yes, 2 must survive at minimum on import. You can now start making placeholder arguments on how those two random squadmates will become squadmates in ME3.

Now, I also highly doubt that every squadmate will be in ME2, Kasumi and Zaeed in particular seem likely to get the ax seeing as they're DLC. I can imagine Mordin being taken off of active combat duty due to his age and taking up full time residence in the lab if he survives. If I'm not mistaken, Samara suggests that she intends to leave but can be called upon at a later time and well, Thane is on his death bed anyway - if I were to place a bet, I'd say if he survives ME2, he'll probably die of Kepral Syndrome halfway through ME3 (a cure would be a cop out in my view).

So what if they're DLC?  Maybe in ME3 it starts up and boom, they're there.  Unless you got them killed.  Then they'd have placeholders, which is complex.  So just because they're DLC, you don't believe their part of the main story?

None of the ME2 characters, save Mordin, are part of the main story.

You're looking at the narrative, while we're looking at the function of the Suicide Mission, and how ME2 handled characters from ME1 as squadmates.

On the other side, you've got Garrus, Miranda and Jacob, who arguably have no place else to go. Grunt and Jack could go their own seperate ways, but something tells me they'll stick around. Tali and Legion are probably the most likely to play major roles in ME3 with the Quarians and Geth on the verge of another war. Speaking of Legion, there is so much that we can still learn from him, we've barely scratched the surface and so many questions remain unanswered.

<insert random character motivations/backstory/blahblahblah ≈ ME3 squadmate>

Having living characters play major roles or what not are fine.  But they won't be plot integral roles: however, they could be a placeholder, and that placeholder may be plot integral, but not the characters themselves.  Because they can all die.

[implodinggoat]

epoch_ wrote...
whatever helps you sleep at night.

Dude, now you're just being an ass.  If you don't have a rebuttle than just keep your trap shut.  Belittling my comments without a logical justification to back you up doesn't help your argument.  It just makes you seem like an ass.

[epoch_]

implodinggoat wrote...

epoch_ wrote...
whatever helps you sleep at night.

Dude, now you're just being an ass.  If you don't have a rebuttle than just keep your trap shut.  Belittling my comments without a logical justification to back you up doesn't help your argument.  It just makes you seem like an ass.

If you still don't get it after 50 pages, you're not going to get it now.

[Yeti13]

Now that u mention it what happened to polite assassin and when did this topic turn into a coding war? I agree with Macbeth, BW will cater to the fans and want to give u a reason to go back and play (not to mention buy) ME1 and ME2, If the characters carry over the newcomers would want to go back and learn their history's, what makes them tick. And for the people saying that most of the characters are not plot relevant, think about it:



Mordin could possibly hold the cure for the genophage

Tali and Legion could finnaly end the war between the Quarians

some like Zaeed and Kasumi don't have those major universe related things about them but if you earned thier loyalty i cant imagine them running off when they know the Reapers are coming.

[smudboy]

Yeti13 wrote...

Now that u mention it what happened to polite assassin and when did this topic turn into a coding war? I agree with Macbeth, BW will cater to the fans and want to give u a reason to go back and play (not to mention buy) ME1 and ME2, If the characters carry over the newcomers would want to go back and learn their history's, what makes them tick. And for the people saying that most of the characters are not plot relevant, think about it:

Mordin could possibly hold the cure for the genophage
Tali and Legion could finnaly end the war between the Quarians
some like Zaeed and Kasumi don't have those major universe related things about them but if you earned thier loyalty i cant imagine them running off when they know the Reapers are coming.

They can all die.

Think about it.

[Yeti13]

or they could all live?