2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Harley_Dude]

glacier1701 wrote...

Hmm you kinda not talking about the same thing as I am as I understand what you have written here. If you recall when we finally get to the Council Chamber in ME1 we see Saren at a control panel. This controls the Relays. We know how to access it since we had to use it to turn the Relays back on to allow the 7th Fleet into Citadel space. We got all that info from Vigil.

I thought it was to stop him from closing the Citadel arms but I have not played it since it came out so I've forgotten lots of the story.

[redguppie]

Why does this topic continue to be an issue? Until Bioware comes out with an official statement then any discussion is pointless speculation. Each side has their own position that they are not willing to change from. No amount of reasonable discussion is going to accomplish anything. While there might be some details that they will listen to fan input for, whether previous characters will come back or not isn't one of them.



P.S. This applies to all characters. They could decide to solve the plot points involving the crew from ME1 in a download and simply have an entire new crew for the last.

[kyle924]

That's why everyone else WILL speculate until the official statement comes - despite it being pointless. Besides, most of these forums are based on speculation, giving the incentive to think of what would happen w/ Mass Effect 3 or the Mass Effect Movie or anything like that. One mind can not convince a negative aspect of a whole discussion unless it is seen as a really interesting thought for what they would need to know (or if they're friends). With this issue, any reasonable input can help hunger their satisfaction, whether the information is false or not. And it's not by wanting to. It's by choosing to do so.

[Thundertactics]

Shepard can die too, (s)he can't have much more than a cameo in ME3.

Sure, you might say (s)he's integral to the plot, but that was only the case for ME1 and 2, (s)he can easily be written out of ME3. Perhaps (s)he decided to spend the rest of his days with his/her LI of choice. Or (s)he became a leader figure while a new character has to take the role of frontline soldier. Or (s)he died of old age before the Reapers arrive.

But in all seriousness, threads like these are filled with so much negativity, I'd rather not visit them at all. It's nice to see it's all aggregated into one sticky. But if people could just have a little faith in BioWare to do the right thing, story-wise and the most logical action economically and on a time-scale, I might have bit more incentive to visit the forums again, rather than assume it's the same old crap, rehashed over and over again.

Modifié par Thundertactics, 28 août 2010 - 07:58 .

[xlavaina]

Thundertactics wrote...

But in all seriousness, threads like these are filled with so much negativity, I'd rather not visit them at all. It's nice to see it's all aggregated into one sticky. But if people could just have a little faith in BioWare to do the right thing, story-wise and the most logical action economically and on a time-scale, I might have bit more incentive to visit the forums again, rather than assume it's the same old crap, rehashed over and over again.

I generally agree with you and you're right there is way too much negativity. But look at it from other peoples' perspectives. How do you think die hard Virmire survivor fans felt when Ash/Kai were forcibly removed form the game? Or what about people who liked Wrex or Liara? Both of them got stupid cameos. Its tough for people like that to have faith in Bioware when to them their favorite characters were essentially taken out of the game. Personally, I'm lucky in that my two favorites, Tali and Garrus, returned, but I still feel really bad for the fans of the characters who didn't return. 

Its just that people like me need to vent their feelings because we all really want our favorites coming back. 

[smudboy]

Thundertactics wrote...

Shepard can die too, (s)he can't have much more than a cameo in ME3.

Sure, you might say (s)he's integral to the plot, but that was only the case for ME1 and 2, (s)he can easily be written out of ME3. Perhaps (s)he decided to spend the rest of his days with his/her LI of choice. Or (s)he became a leader figure while a new character has to take the role of frontline soldier. Or (s)he died of old age before the Reapers arrive.

But in all seriousness, threads like these are filled with so much negativity, I'd rather not visit them at all. It's nice to see it's all aggregated into one sticky. But if people could just have a little faith in BioWare to do the right thing, story-wise and the most logical action economically and on a time-scale, I might have bit more incentive to visit the forums again, rather than assume it's the same old crap, rehashed over and over again.

1. Shepard, on death, cannot be imported into ME3.
2. Shepard is not integral to the plot of ME2.
3. I wish Shepard wouldn't be the main character of ME3, but "this is Shepard's story" crap.
4. Not negativity: simple observations. We get negative on fools who don't know what observations are.

[Hobosapien]

smudboy wrote...

Thundertactics wrote...

Shepard can die too, (s)he can't have much more than a cameo in ME3.

Sure, you might say (s)he's integral to the plot, but that was only the case for ME1 and 2, (s)he can easily be written out of ME3. Perhaps (s)he decided to spend the rest of his days with his/her LI of choice. Or (s)he became a leader figure while a new character has to take the role of frontline soldier. Or (s)he died of old age before the Reapers arrive.

But in all seriousness, threads like these are filled with so much negativity, I'd rather not visit them at all. It's nice to see it's all aggregated into one sticky. But if people could just have a little faith in BioWare to do the right thing, story-wise and the most logical action economically and on a time-scale, I might have bit more incentive to visit the forums again, rather than assume it's the same old crap, rehashed over and over again.

1. Shepard, on death, cannot be imported into ME3.
2. Shepard is not integral to the plot of ME2.
3. I wish Shepard wouldn't be the main character of ME3, but "this is Shepard's story" crap.
4. Not negativity: simple observations. We get negative on fools who don't know what observations are.

It is Shepard's story.  One would have to go out of their way to kill him off.  If you don't like Shepard, then Bioware is giving you the option of taking your game in a different direction.  Whatever happens in ME3 it'll be good.  ME2, for me, made ME1 even better. 

[We'll bang okay]

i like it all new good job no more tali this tali that

[We'll bang okay]

But What about Miranda

[Thundertactics]

smudboy wrote...

1. Shepard, on death, cannot be imported into ME3.
2. Shepard is not integral to the plot of ME2.
3. I wish Shepard wouldn't be the main character of ME3, but "this is Shepard's story" crap.

I was unaware I still had to add [/sarcasm] while starting a new paragraph with "But in all seriousness,".
I simply tried to explain that just because a character can be written out of the story, doesn't mean he, she or it will be written out of the story. Nor does the fact that BioWare did it before ("Hey, DA2 has a new main character too, so will ME3!" : mean they will do so again.

4. Not negativity: simple observations. We get negative on fools who don't know what observations are.

I have no problem with mere observations, I do have a problem with the fact that some people try to use these as irrefutable proof that BioWare will not make any of the current squadmembers return to ME3 in any significant role.
Not to mention most of these "observations" are mainly personal disappointments with ME2's execution.

Then again, I never really cared a whole lot about either of the Virmire Survivors and Liara, and I thought Wrex was done very well. While I am very much pleased by Garrus and Tali's continued development, so I suppose that attributes to my rather "positive" outlook regarding the squad composition of ME3.

To put it simply, I just don't believe BioWare will go through all that effort just to eliminate a few probabilities, while it's likely more sensible both plot-wise and economically to simply carry over -most- of ME2's squaddies and implement some sort of penalty for having certain characters die.
Sure, I'm not a fan of each and every squadmate in ME2, but I still hope they'll be prominent in ME3, if only to give them a chance on proper character development this time around.

[Lord Aeducan]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Jade5233]

I just really want Kaidan back as a squadmate. I miss his abilities and his character.

[MrCasperTom]

Just as something to add, noticed it when I was looking about the ME Movie.

It appears (and this information is on wikipedia so it should be taken with a pinch of salt) that all squad members from ME2, and ME1, have their voice actors signed up for the games development.

I've also seen a quote from a developer (lost the link, I'll try and find it) that says this: "...will pull in over 1,000 variables from Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 to shape how players experience the final chapter."

Edit: Of course that doesn't support either side of the discussion but it's something intresting to note.

Modifié par MrCasperTom, 29 août 2010 - 08:28 .

[gunswordfist]

[quote]

4. Not negativity: simple observations. We get

negative on fools who don't know what

observations are.

[/quote]

I have no problem with mere observations, I do have a problem with the fact that some

people try to use these as irrefutable proof

that BioWare will not make any of the current

squadmembers return to ME3 in any

significant role.

Not to mention most of these "observations" are mainly personal disappointments with

ME2's execution. Then again, I never really cared a whole lot

about either of the Virmire Survivors and

Liara, and I thought Wrex was done very well.

While I am very much pleased by Garrus and

Tali's continued development, so I suppose

that attributes to my rather "positive" outlook regarding the squad composition of ME3. To put it simply, I just don't believe BioWare

will go through all that effort just to eliminate

a few probabilities, while it's likely more

sensible both plot-wise and economically to

simply carry over -most- of ME2's squaddies

and implement some sort of penalty for having certain characters die.

Sure, I'm not a fan of each and every

squadmate in ME2, but I still hope they'll be

prominent in ME3, if only to give them a

chance on proper character development this

time around. [/quote]God, I agree with every kernel of this post, including how you feel about all the characters you mentioned.

[Jaron Oberyn]

smudboy wrote...



2. Shepard is not integral to the plot of ME2.

That statement right there alone discredits everything you say.

-Polite

[smudboy]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

smudboy wrote...



2. Shepard is not integral to the plot of ME2.

That statement right there alone discredits everything you say.

-Polite

Prove to me where Shepard is integral to the plot of ME2.

[upsettingshorts]

Smudboy is what we call in the political science trade a "reactionary."

[smudboy]

Commander Bond wrote...

smudboy wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

smudboy wrote...



2. Shepard is not integral to the plot of ME2.

That statement right there alone discredits everything you say.

-Polite

Prove to me where Shepard is integral to the plot of ME2.

LOL

That goes for anyone, LOL boy.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

[/sarcasm] this is one of the most intelligent arguments i have ever been a witness to =D

[smudboy]

Commander Bond wrote...

I thought his role as the protagonist made him pretty "integral", but I could just be high.

Please explain how the role of a protagonist, and then Shepard's role as a protagonist, makes them integral to the plot.

[upsettingshorts]

smudboy wrote...

Commander Bond wrote...

I thought his role as the protagonist made him pretty "integral", but I could just be high.

Please explain how the role of a protagonist, and then Shepard's role as a protagonist, makes them integral to the plot.

Your use of the word plot might be in error.  Plot is "what happens" - in that you could describe the plot of Star Wars as:

"Droids land on a desert planet and get lost.  Then they get picked up by scavengers and sold to some farmers.  Eventually the farmers get killed and their son takes the droids off planet with the help of an old wizard in a smuggling vessel flown by a scoundel and his co-pilot"

"Plot" is just an element of a story.  It's possible to have an exciting and compelling story with a simplistic plot because other factors are involved like themes, tension, pacing, dialogue, character, perspective... all things that need to come together along with the plot to form the story.

So if you're trying to say, "Shepard doesn't drive the plot."  Then you're right, he doesn't.  But he doesn't have to because other players in the story do it for him.  The protagonist doesn't have to drive the plot, that's not necessarily his job:

The protagonist is the character through which the audience is supposed to feel perspective and empathize with.  In addition to being the protagonist, Shepard is the focal character.   Without him, we would have no vessel through which to experience the narrative.  Other characters and elements in the story are partially or wholly defined by their relationship with or reaction to Shepard.  In that way he couldn't be more integral.

However, Mass Effect 2 is far more character driven than ME1, which was more plot driven.   

In Mass Effect 1, the plot demands that Shepard pursue Saren to beat him to the Conduit.  By being the protagonist in a plot driven story, this puts a stronger emphasis on Shepard in the narrative.
In Mass Effect 2, characters demand that Shepard pursue their interests in order to ensure their loyalty.  The plot only drives the narrative in a few instances after acquiring the Normandy - Horizon, the Collector Ship, the Reaper IFF, and the Omega 4 relay.

What Mass Effect 2 also gains over Mass Effect 1 is an antagonist of ambiguous motives who drives the plot - the Illusive Man.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 août 2010 - 04:25 .

[smudboy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
stuff

I'm asking what makes Shepard integral to the plot.  Like the word integral, if you take out one letter, it becomes another word, or nonsense.  The word ceases to be.

Show me where in ME2 that Shepard is integral to the plot.

[upsettingshorts]

I already demonstrated it.  Granted, I edited my post quite a few times to clarify a point or two, but it is more or less final now.

Explain how my arguments are incorrect and show your work.

A good place to start would be to formulate an example where Shepard could be "more integral" to the plot of Mass Effect 2.  Or you could offer an alternative character who is integral to the plot.  I've presented an argument, the ball is in your court.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 août 2010 - 04:29 .