2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Marta Rio wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
So, the dispute is actually this: Will we have a new squad or calibrations?

You see, if you get all the old squad, they will all be boring like death. And if you get a new squad, it can be easily introduced via its connection to the plot... just like in ME1. And the Normandy dialogue for the new squadmates is easy to write, because they are new.

New = not used up.

Old = used up. Alive/dead, loyal / not loyal, romanced / not romanced, but always used up.

Anything but calibrationnnsss! I don't necessarily agree that all of the characters are completely used up (although honestly what else are you going to talk about with Garrus?), but if you stick all 12 (or 16?) squadmates back in as squadmates, you're going to have to do some dialogue diluting. Which means "calibrations" and lots of them.

People complain about there being a lack of character interaction in ME2 (e.g. minimal intersquad banter on missions, less rich dialogue trees than in ME1), which shows their obvious attachment to the characters. So it's understandable that they want them back for ME3. But it's a catch-22: you want meaningful interaction with your favorite squaddie, thus you want them as a fully-fledged squadmate. But if Bioware puts them in as a fully-fledged squadmate, then they have to water down that interaction to some extent. Or they'll have to water down something else (*cough* the plot *cough*).

That's what I mean.

ME3 intersquad banter:

Tali: Hey, Garrus, wanna talk about calibrations?
Garrus: I've got a sniper rifle.

THE END.

[Killjoy Cutter]

smudboy wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Snrk.  You crack me up, smudboy. 

It might not be intentional, but you have established a standard for ME2, that conflicts with what you're saying about ME1. 

I keep laughing at your stupidity.  I know it's not ignorance.

Well, having gone through what he did in ME1, and become integral, Shep is still integral to ME2.  Having been the "hero" of ME1, he now has to be the central figure of the events of ME2, precisely because of how and why he was integral to the events of ME1.

1. Shepard is only integral in several scenes.  After knowing the location to Ilos, he is not.
2. Prove to me where Shepard is integral to ME2.
3. Being the "hero" of ME1 does not make them integral to the central events of ME2, for several reasons (he was a corpse, the Chosen status is not proven, Shepard does nothing in ME2 no one else could've done.)

Once again you aren't proving anything.  You're just saying "Shepard is integral to ME2 because he was in ME1."  That doesn't even make sense.

Explain, clearly, in detail, how Shepard is integral to the plot of ME2.  Then I'll stop calling you a moron.  Cause right now, all I'm reading is "Waaaaaaaaah, I love ME2, smudboy is making me sadface."

(skipping past yet more comical attempts at ad hom from smuddy...)

Has it ever occured to you that maybe Mass Effect is Shephard's story?  It's his life, and his events, and his relationships, and his choices and their consequences. 

As an RPG, the Mass Effect series isn't plot-driven, it's character-driven.  Hell, if Shep dies, the story is over (the game is over, try again player 1).

But if you want to look at the plot, I would say that yes, in fact, only the person who was in Shephard's position in ME1 is going to be the person to follow through with things in ME2 and ME3.  He's the one who had the vision at the beacon, who spoke with the Prothean VI, he's the one who spoke with Sovereign, etc.  Who else is randomly going to pick up that torch and finish the marathon?  Etc.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 02 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Harley_Dude]

pjotroos it sounds as reasonable as anyone else. Maybe the Liara DLC will provide some clues.

[smudboy]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
(skipping past yet more comical attempts at ad hom from smuddy...)

I don't care how you regard me calling you a moron.  This is what you've shown to me.  If you take it personally, and that causes you to change your perspective, I'll live with whatever scorn others give.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe Mass Effect is Shephard's story?  It's his life, and his events, and his relationships, and his choices and their consequences. 

Has it ever occurred to you that you can replace Shepard in ME2 with anyone, and then, it becomes that other person's story?
Has it ever occurred to you that something can still be "Shepard's Story" without Shepard being the protagonist?
Has it ever occurred to you that ME1 was Shepard's story, and ME2 is just "Shepard's Contrived Roadtrip Adventure?"
Has it ever occurred to you that Shepard is designed to be a generic placeholder, having very flat lines, who do not develop, on some bizarre-game-design concept that we can identify with it more, just because we can change their face, and select P/R dialog choices, yet this has nothing to do with character development?
Has it ever occurred to you that Crono from Chrono Trigger, despite being a mute and having a type of resurrection, gives us more capacity to identify with them, then Mr. Jesus over here, through the challenges of the side characters, and their reactions to having him gone, trying to get him back, and having him return?

As an RPG, the Mass Effect series isn't plot-driven, it's character-driven.  Hell, if Shep dies, the story is over (the game is over, try again player 1).

Mass Effect is plot driven (marching orders from Council/Anderson & Shepard, as an active protagonist.)
Mass Effect 2 is plot driven (marching orders from TIM.)
The character vignettes, which we may call external individual instances (aka other stories) of character driven narrative, do nothing to Shepard's Story.  So it's not their story.  It can be anyone's story, cause Shepard in that regard is just along for the ride. Having emotional and expositional scenes is one of the points of character driven stories.  This drama, pathos, emotion, (whichever feeling) is relevant if, of course, it's related to, you know, Mass Effect.  This is not "Tali's Trial Geth Story" or "Garrus' Revenge Citadel Excursion."  This is ME2: Stop the Bad Guys.  These vignettes had to be weaved into the main narrative, not be completely external.  The fact they were given so much attention, yet had absolutely no tie in to ME2, is a huge problem: if you can design a software system that imports levels, DLC, side-quests, characters, that aren't tied into the main story -- the point of everything -- then you have colossally failed in telling that story, and instead, decided to tell a series of other stories that just so happen to occur in the same time frame, scenarios, places, locations, characters etc.  Which magically translates to "let's get on the Cerberbus" and "I feel loyal" in the most contrived, illogical scenes of a Suicide Mission I could never imagine any decent scenario writer putting together.

But if you want to look at the plot, I would say that yes, in fact, only the person who was in Shephard's position in ME1 is going to be the person to follow through with things in ME2 and ME3.  He's the one who had the vision at the beacon, who spoke with the Prothean VI, he's the one who spoke with Sovereign, etc.  Who else is randomly going to pick up that torch and finish the marathon?  Etc.

Definitely not a corpse.  OH WAIT.

All of which were revelvant to ME1.
All of which were irrelevant to ME2, which I have shown examples of and given analysis that TIM is on crack, the plot doesn't care for Shepard, the characters don't, and no one (save Tali) really does, either.  Funny how one side mission and one DLC content has some Prothean vision thing, which mean absolutely nothing.  Wow, why is Shepard having weird visions?  No reason.

Modifié par smudboy, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:34 .

[xlavaina]

xlavaina wrote...
Guys, why don't we just stop arguing? I think what people are trying to say is that Shepard is obviously critical to the story in the sense that you need a character to step into the shoes of, and someone that everyone looks upon as a hero, but also that the story revolves around the characters much more than it does around you. Basically, Shepard is the protagonist, but would be nothing without the characters that support him. So basically, both sides of this dispute are correct, so please stop arguing, it hurts the thread.

Smudboy and whoever is arguing with him, has it ever occurred to either of you that you might both be right? Sure Shepard can be replaced with anyone, but it is clear that Shepard was chosen over any other human for a reason. Shepard is definitely important to the series, but it is also obvious that its the characters that Shepard relates with that makes the game so enjoyable. 

You are both right. Stop arguing. Please. 

This thread is going to get locked or something if you guys don't cool down. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

xlavaina wrote...

xlavaina wrote...
Guys, why don't we just stop arguing? I think what people are trying to say is that Shepard is obviously critical to the story in the sense that you need a character to step into the shoes of, and someone that everyone looks upon as a hero, but also that the story revolves around the characters much more than it does around you. Basically, Shepard is the protagonist, but would be nothing without the characters that support him. So basically, both sides of this dispute are correct, so please stop arguing, it hurts the thread.

Smudboy and whoever is arguing with him, has it ever occurred to either of you that you might both be right? Sure Shepard can be replaced with anyone, but it is clear that Shepard was chosen over any other human for a reason. Shepard is definitely important to the series, but it is also obvious that its the characters that Shepard relates with that makes the game so enjoyable. 

You are both right. Stop arguing. Please. 

This thread is going to get locked or something if you guys don't cool down. 

Cool down?    I couldn't be much cooler about this.  If someone starts lobbing insult grenades at me during a discussion, that's just a sign of the lack of strength in his actual argument.  It reflects poorly on him, not his target.

It's obvious that smuddy is just here to crap on something that other people enjoy, and the harder he goes at someone in one of these exchanges, the more obvious it is.  He's going to call anyone who doesn't agree with him a squealing weepy fangirl/fanboy, and a moron, and so on... it's the same old thing going all the way back to BBS and Usenet, there are always a few in any online discussion.

(And wow, I really date-stamped myself there, didn't I?)

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:38 .

[Hobosapien]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

xlavaina wrote...

xlavaina wrote...
Guys, why don't we just stop arguing? I think what people are trying to say is that Shepard is obviously critical to the story in the sense that you need a character to step into the shoes of, and someone that everyone looks upon as a hero, but also that the story revolves around the characters much more than it does around you. Basically, Shepard is the protagonist, but would be nothing without the characters that support him. So basically, both sides of this dispute are correct, so please stop arguing, it hurts the thread.

Smudboy and whoever is arguing with him, has it ever occurred to either of you that you might both be right? Sure Shepard can be replaced with anyone, but it is clear that Shepard was chosen over any other human for a reason. Shepard is definitely important to the series, but it is also obvious that its the characters that Shepard relates with that makes the game so enjoyable. 

You are both right. Stop arguing. Please. 

This thread is going to get locked or something if you guys don't cool down. 

Cool down?    I couldn't be much cooler about this.  If someone starts lobbing insult grenades at me during a discussion, that's just a sign of the lack of strength in his actual argument.  It reflects poorly on him, not his target.

It's obvious that smuddy is just here to crap on something that other people enjoy, and the harder he goes at someone in one of these exchanges, the more obvious it is.  He's going to call anyone who doesn't agree with him a squealing weepy fangirl/fanboy, and a moron, and so on... it's the same old thing going all the way back to BBS and Usenet, there are always a few in any online discussion.

(And wow, I really date-stamped myself there, didn't I?)

And with that Killjoy wins.

[smudboy]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Cool down?    I couldn't be much cooler about this.  If someone starts lobbing insult grenades at me during a discussion, that's just a sign of the lack of strength in his actual argument.  It reflects poorly on him, not his target.

It's obvious that smuddy is just here to crap on something that other people enjoy, and the harder he goes at someone in one of these exchanges, the more obvious it is.  He's going to call anyone who doesn't agree with him a squealing weepy fangirl/fanboy, and a moron, and so on... it's the same old thing going all the way back to BBS and Usenet, there are always a few in any online discussion.

(And wow, I really date-stamped myself there, didn't I?)

Moron is a badge of honor.  You should wear it with pride, since you can't understand a goddamn thing I write.

[smudboy]

xlavaina wrote...
Smudboy and whoever is arguing with him, has it ever occurred to either of you that you might both be right?

That's like saying blue is blue and not blue.  So no, I don't think that ever occurred to me, unless you provide sufficient context and supporting evidence.

Sure Shepard can be replaced with anyone,

Thank you for agreeing with me.

but it is clear that Shepard was chosen over any other human for a reason.

And that is?

Shepard is definitely important to the series,

Such as?

but it is also obvious that its the characters that Shepard relates with that makes the game so enjoyable. 

This isn't about how much you enjoyed or didn't enjoy something.  This is about plot integrity.  It's like saying a+1 = 2, and you say "But I love the number 2!"

You are both right. Stop arguing. Please. 

No.  You're missing the point.  The plot either has necessary components or it does not.  The plot of ME1 does.  The plot of ME2 has at least Mordin as a necessary character that is proven in the plot.

This thread is going to get locked or something if you guys don't cool down. 

I am constantly drinking Lipton Brisk Iced Tea.  *sip*  I just don't bother to write it out.

Also, no squadmates are returning as squadmates.

[golak]

Modifié par golak, 02 septembre 2010 - 07:11 .

[McBeath]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Cool down?    I couldn't be much cooler about this.  If someone starts lobbing insult grenades at me during a discussion, that's just a sign of the lack of strength in his actual argument.  It reflects poorly on him, not his target.

It's obvious that smuddy is just here to crap on something that other people enjoy, and the harder he goes at someone in one of these exchanges, the more obvious it is.  He's going to call anyone who doesn't agree with him a squealing weepy fangirl/fanboy, and a moron, and so on... it's the same old thing going all the way back to BBS and Usenet, there are always a few in any online discussion.

(And wow, I really date-stamped myself there, didn't I?)

He's here to crap because he(and a few others) are really disatisfied with ME2 for various reasons.  Check out some of their other threads or Smud's video's where he disects the characters for us... funny stuff in kind of a sad way

Oh well, good to see this is still going strong, and apparently on the lines of "if you don't agree and actually liked ME2, your a moron."  I'd post my thoughts yet again, but why bother?  All we can do is wait to see in ME3... and hope that we can find this thread come that time to see just how right we all were. 

Cheers. 

[glacier1701]

Smud,

 I think we are wrong in believing that Shepard is not needed in ME2. After much tooing and frooing over the game I have actually found an instance where, if Shepard is not there, a device is not available in game. I am referring to the Dr.Chakwas and the dermal regenerator. Only Shepard can get this device. So without Shepard the crew is doomed to always have to wear those scars they get in combat.

/sarcasm off

 Quite frankly Shepard really does not do anything of any meaning within the game as it stands right now. Any competent leader with a modicum of sense should be able to follow the directions given (and basically if you think about it thats what we do when play - we follow the directions given - we dont have a choice and so in that sense neither does Shepard). This is not to say that the ending of ME2 will be the same as it would have been with Shepard but there is nothing within the game itself that bars anyone from getting to that end. That is the saddest part of the whole saga of ME2 that despite it supposedly being Shepard's story in ME2 Shepard does nothing of any note whatsoever.

 So much could have been done if the character story mode that was used in ME2 was used to expand on the interaction between the characters and Shepard. However that would  have meant more time to be spent on the characters and thus gameplay would have suffered. It has been admitted from within the ME dev team that too much was sacrificed to polish gameplay. If anything at all says that those arguing that ME2 needs Shepard the fact that gameplay was the one area that was emphasised at the expense of everything else and stated so by BW is the nail in the coffin of those arguements.
 

[Estelindis]

pjotroos wrote...
Anyway, enough of my wall of text. Does it sound good to anyone? 

It was a most excellent wall of text, and it all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  I would personally get much more  enjoyment from interacting with Samara and Mordin than with, say, Miranda and Jacob, but I can see your logic in terms of why they may not be squadmates in ME3.

[stewie1974]

smudboy wrote...

A lot of stuff saying why shepard isn't integral to the plot of ME2 at all..

Not responding to a direct quote, but a general conviction.

You say mordin is essential to the plot of ME2 because of the immunity from the collector swarm.

Agree.

You say anyone could play shepards role in ME2 and that his character is not intergral to the plot.

Strongly DISAGREE.

Reasoning...

TIM is a fisherman, trying to catch a big fish called the collectors.
He baits the hook with shepard, knowing the collectors will take the bait.

Harbringer thinks he is fishing, by providing collector bait to , but he's actually being fished by TIM.

that might have been a part of the plot you missed....  sorry you think TIM should have dangled miranda or Jacob??

Nah, just dosn't work that way.

You didn't examine the whole collectors setting traps for shepard that TIM knew about.



Now just to remind you....

Shepard killed a reaper, the reapers have to respect that.....

Respect NOT meaning..... "Hey I respect your decision" Respect meaning "This dude can kill reapers" , you know the way in which an unarmed man has to respect a grizzly bear...... it can ****g kill you...


SO

TIM ressurects shepard, the sleeper agents alluded to in ME1, report back to the reapers whats going on.....
TIM lets news get out that Shepard is recruiting a kick ass team , that sleeper agents can pick up on and report back to the reapers....

Hello, so the reapers are aware shepard is making a kick ass team to take down the collectors.... .

why , oh why, oh why, oh why do you think harbringers only lines are trying to convince shepard that he's useless and little and insignifigant....... duh.... the reapers fear this man, and want him out of the equation....

that's why they keep setting traps for him....

why the kick ass team? well half of them could be anyhone..... really i suspect its so shepard dosn't feel like he's just bait .....to draw the collectors out....

there are numerous instances in game to support that the reapers have targeted shepard individually....the same collector ship etc.....

TIM is fishing using shepard as bait....  absolutely no one else in the galaxy would work as bait for the reapers.



The bait is most effective when it dosn't feel like it's bait ....... TIM knew using shepard would get the "respect" of the reapers......  I.E, that they would go out to get him.....

It all makes perfect sense.....  no shepard, no bait..... no means of catching the collectors or their tech......they would have been chasing ghosts otherwise.......  once the reapers learned of shepard being alive.... they set traps that would allow shepard to -catch- them in the act......

TIM had to have faith that shepard would be as good as his reputation and evade the traps and turn them around.

that work for ya?

cuz that's the game I played.

Modifié par stewie1974, 03 septembre 2010 - 03:14 .

[smudboy]

[quote]stewie1974 wrote...

Watch the intro to ME2 again ... listen to the words, understand... it's pretty much spelt out for you why shepard is needed...
[/quote]
These are TIM's and Miranda's reasons for wanting Shepard.

However, none of these are actualized.  If TIM says "we need one very specific man, touched by Protheans, to make us a Prothean cake."  And if Shepard doesn't make a Prothean Cake, or reasonable facsimile, then his Chosen status means nothing, and the plot didn't give a care of some guy and their cake baking skills.

[quote]
He's an ICON . If anyone can use their influence to rally an unlikely band of brothers, use their galactic fame to charm/ intimidate people into desired outcomes it's him.... Shepard is an ESTABLISHED character with an ESTABLISHED history, he's a goddamned celeberity hero/renegade ....man even conrad got it....
[/quote]
That sounds like a wonderful idea.  Unfortunately, what you've just stated wasn't present, nor was in any time their "galactic fame to P/R people into desired outcomes" relevant to the plot, or integral to it (the P/R system is used in Zaeed's loyalty mission if you go Paragon.)  If you're referring to rallying them, or rather, recruiting them, then anyone could've done what Shepard did.  There is a potential argument for Tali's recruitment, but even she'd be thankful for being saved, though even I admit she probably wouldn't join up.  Which is irrelevant, because she's optional.

[quote]
A symbol or an icon is a vital rallying point.
[/quote]
I'm not arguing it isn't.  But Shepard's rallying point is either not present, not required by the plot, or not used in recruitment.  In fact, no one really cares aside from maybe an optionally thankful Parasini.

[quote]
Now you tend to look at things and say "Ah yes , mordin was a scientist and helped make a protection thingy against collector swarms, so that way he is vital to the plot"....
[/quote]
If you mean objectively looking at the plot, and the Mordin character, then yes I tend to make simple objective observations.

[quote]
Shepard has influence.... and its not just at the store...
[/quote]
The Council?  The Alliance?  The Spectres?  The Justicars?  Tali?  Feros?  Where?  The only influence Shepard has is with TIM and Miranda, because they think he's vital for something, which never comes to fruition.

[quote]
don't forget the reapers KNOW shepard....
[/quote]
I'm sure the Reapers know many things; what's your point?  What does that have to do with with why TIM and Miranda want Shepard, and then relate to bringing Shepard back from the dead?  So they want Shepard and to turn them into Jesus, because the Reapers KNOW Shepard?  What?  So if they wanted a big Prothean cake, TIM simply wants it because the Collectors want it?  Even though he could've just made his own?

[quote]
they are trying to set up traps for him...... traps that TIM knows shepard will overcome and help the mission progress.....
[/quote]
So?  How does this relate to them granting Shepard's Chosen status, because TIM knows that if they get Shepard in charge of things, the Collectors will actively seek them out?  Wouldn't you want someone whom the enemy doesn't know, so that the enemy couldn't anticipate them?

The simple fact is, it's a contrived scenario that the Collectors are interested in Shepard.  TIM and Miranda weren't even aware of colonies being hit, let alone by Collectors, before they even want Shepard (give him his Chosen status.)

Look at how much dialog TIM has to give when talking to him, what that actually means, and what actually happens in the story.  Compare that to ME1.

[quote]
see how that works out eh? Nudge, nudge, eh? get it now?.... what ya say.... you think the reapers are gonna put the collectors in places for anyone OTHER than shepard?
[/quote]
What are you referring to?  TIM had inklings the Collectors were involved in colony abductions, but that is after they decided to get Shepard, let alone resurrect them, let alone knowing the Collectors wanted Shepard: this is only after Horizon does TIM admit tipping off the Alliance to having Ash/Kaidan on Horizon, whose intel somehow got into Collector hands, on the hunch the Collectors would show up.  If that's all it is, TIM could've just been leaving red herrings all the while for the Collectors to chase, instead of going through all that effort of getting and Jesusifying Shepard, and built up an army, got lots of ships, and done a proper war-like behavior to catch and stop the Collectors..

[quote]
Here I'll simplifiy.....

TIM is a fisherman, trying to catch a big fish called the collectors.
[/quote]
Well established after the fact that he and Miranda 1) want Shepard, 2) will resurrect Shepard, whose reasonings and desires are not fulfilled by the plot.  In comparison to ME1, whose Chosen status not only fulfills their role of being a Spectre, getting a seat on the council, and stopping Saren, but also ends up clarifying and defining themselves as being a protector of the galaxy (which is a pretty generic status to give someone.)

[quote]
He baits the hook with shepard, knowing the collectors will take the bait.
[/quote]
Which is completely contrived, as I've explained above.

[quote]
Harbringer thinks he is fishing, by providing collector bait to , but he's actually being fished by TIM.
[/quote]
Harbinger is busy collecting humans.  Maybe he's bored?  I have no idea how the mind of Harbinger is, and I'll be damned if anyone else does.  Even more comical is TIM's belief that Reapers "have to respect" that Shepard killed Sovereign, considering we have a Derelict Reaper just hanging around for millions of years, which pretty much negates that reason to bring Shepard back.

[quote]
that might have been a part of the plot you missed....  sorry you think TIM should have dangled miranda or Jacob??
[/quote]
Yes it might have, if that had been the case.  TIM could've sent any standard military leader.

[quote]
Nah, just dosn't work that way.
[/quote]
I agree.  The plot is a contrived mess: who knows how reason, logic, and causality should be working.

[stewie1974]

smudboy wrote...



Harbinger is busy collecting humans.  Maybe he's bored?  I have no idea how the mind of Harbinger is, and I'll be damned if anyone else does.  Even more comical is TIM's belief that Reapers "have to respect" that Shepard killed Sovereign, considering we have a Derelict Reaper just hanging around for millions of years, which pretty much negates that reason to bring Shepard back.

The derilict reaper killers were taken care of millions of years ago ((cycle remmember)) the reapers were enjoying an uninterupted cycle .... till damn , that one man named shepard came back and ruined the cycle.....

As to why they didn't send a normal commander in anticipation.........or use red herrings....

again, refer the sleeper agents.... refer intel... refer saren .... TIM HAD to make the bait LOOK real.

Sleeper agents have people monitering this stuff, any suspicion that it was a -set up- it would have been leaked....and tipped off the reapers and thus the collectors.

Remmeber the sleeper agents mentioned in ME1 are still out there... the reapers had a freaking specter working for them....

it's likely that intel is likely to fall into reaper hands...... so it had to look "convincing"..... had there been an allience or cerberus navy waiting for them ..... they probablly wouldn't have taken the bait.


Yes a lot of smoke and mirrors were involved on TIMS part .....

He is called the ILLUSIVE man not the ELLUSIVE man..... there is a reason for that.... it's not that he's a hermit...it's that he likes "illusions" , clue is in the name. They didn't mispell Ellusive , difficult to find, they called him the Illusive man for a damn good reason...... smoke and mirrors and misdirection.

Why are you under the impression that TIM is "straight" with anyone, even miranda?  You need to read between the lines, and pay attention to the clues.

Modifié par stewie1974, 03 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Yeti13]

what is all this about not being Shepard's story? Shepard is You! It's your story, your decisions, you choices and the consequences of those decisions. Replacing Shepard is replacing you the player. Casey Hudson has already said that the ME trilogy is Your as in Shepard's story. BW has talked about expanded games after the trilogy is over where u may not be Shepard but make no mistake without Commander Shepard aka You, ME wouldn't exist

[Gravenpain]

Hey Smudboy, why don't we just wait for the last installment of this game to release and then make objective observations about the these holes you think you found in the plot. Maybe we'll find out why Shepard is integral to the story. I personally could care less. It's a video game, I need to run around as someone, whether it's Shepard or ****** McGee makes no difference to me. The story holds up enough to be enjoyable.



You obviously have a different perspective than Killjoy. This does not make him a moron. Show a little respect as he did the same for you. He had some valid points just as you did. Without information of the story from the third game it seems wasteful to spend your time picking apart a story that isn't finished.



Why don't we start fresh and try to get back to the topic of the thread, squad composition. Anyone? Or will we continue to bicker with someone who is dead set on being right?

[xlavaina]

Kay. You guys win. I'll simply enjoy the argument from now on and cease my attempts to qualm it.

[Harley_Dude]

Gravenpain wrote...

Hey Smudboy, why don't we just wait for the last installment of this game to release and then make objective observations about the these holes you think you found in the plot. Maybe we'll find out why Shepard is integral to the story. I personally could care less. It's a video game, I need to run around as someone, whether it's Shepard or ****** McGee makes no difference to me. The story holds up enough to be enjoyable.

Good point. ME2 reminds me of Halo 2 where you complete the game but know there is more to come. The ME story may have been conceived as a trilogy but they needed to make the first game feel more complete since they had no idea if sales would justify additional installments. ME2 was created with the knowledge ME3 would be created so they have the liberty to leave us second guessing.

[We'll bang okay]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

77 pages in and people still don't ask whats the problem with a new squad.

i don`t i thank its good have new people not Tali and Garrus they are  too old 

Modifié par Douglas n7, 03 septembre 2010 - 07:21 .

[We'll bang okay]

Shandepared wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Character that wouldn't make sense to leave if didn't die:
Garrus( infiltrator)
Legion( engineer)
Jacob( vanguard)
Miranda( sentinel)
Jack( adept)
Mordin( engineer and scientist)

Those are 6( 8) characters that are kept plus 6 new one.

Mordin's health could easily deteriorate to the point that he can't do field missions anymore. He might want to retire with stopping the Collectors being another great achievement. The good doctor might be dying of old age by the time of ME3 is what I'm saying.

Jack I think would want to go her own way. If you didn't romance her then she has no attachment to you or the crew or the mission. If you did romance her then she might want to settle down into a more peaceful life.

Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, and Legion I basically agree on.

Tali and Grunt I think will definitely be gone, the same for the rest you mentioned.

Jacob and Miranda are kind of wild cards... we don't know who Shepard will be working for in ME3. If you've broken away from Cerberus then the Alliance might want to detain them. Garrus really has no place to go and Legion can easily be written back into your squad even if you sold him to Cerberus and even if he died on the suicide mission.

ya but Miranda quit so maybe 

Modifié par Douglas n7, 03 septembre 2010 - 07:25 .

[smudboy]

stewie1974 wrote...

smudboy wrote...



Harbinger is busy collecting humans.  Maybe he's bored?  I have no idea how the mind of Harbinger is, and I'll be damned if anyone else does.  Even more comical is TIM's belief that Reapers "have to respect" that Shepard killed Sovereign, considering we have a Derelict Reaper just hanging around for millions of years, which pretty much negates that reason to bring Shepard back.

The derilict reaper killers were taken care of millions of years ago ((cycle remmember)) the reapers were enjoying an uninterupted cycle .... till damn , that one man named shepard came back and ruined the cycle.....

As to why they didn't send a normal commander in anticipation.........or use red herrings....

again, refer the sleeper agents.... refer intel... refer saren .... TIM HAD to make the bait LOOK real.

Sleeper agents have people monitering this stuff, any suspicion that it was a -set up- it would have been leaked....and tipped off the reapers and thus the collectors.

Remmeber the sleeper agents mentioned in ME1 are still out there... the reapers had a freaking specter working for them....

it's likely that intel is likely to fall into reaper hands...... so it had to look "convincing"..... had there been an allience or cerberus navy waiting for them ..... they probablly wouldn't have taken the bait.


Yes a lot of smoke and mirrors were involved on TIMS part .....

He is called the ILLUSIVE man not the ELLUSIVE man..... there is a reason for that.... it's not that he's a hermit...it's that he likes "illusions" , clue is in the name. They didn't mispell Ellusive , difficult to find, they called him the Illusive man for a damn good reason...... smoke and mirrors and misdirection.

Why are you under the impression that TIM is "straight" with anyone, even miranda?  You need to read between the lines, and pay attention to the clues.

[Archereon]

So, the fact that this thread is stickied pretty much confirms no ME2 squadmates will return?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Archereon wrote...

So, the fact that this thread is stickied pretty much confirms no ME2 squadmates will return?

LOL!