2338 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

xlavaina wrote...

^ Ahh didn't know about the email, and what you're saying is certainly possible. I just hope Bioware doesn't disappoint, thats all.

I agree. But this is the last game of the trilogy. I'm sure they're going to go all out on it. Just like Bungie's doing with Halo Reach. Keep hope alive.

-Polite

[MrCasperTom]

In reference to Polite, he did say this - http://www.computera...e.php?id=258534

Modifié par MrCasperTom, 05 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[xlavaina]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

xlavaina wrote...

^ Ahh didn't know about the email, and what you're saying is certainly possible. I just hope Bioware doesn't disappoint, thats all.

I agree. But this is the last game of the trilogy. I'm sure they're going to go all out on it. Just like Bungie's doing with Halo Reach. Keep hope alive.

-Polite

Yeah. Ultimately, I want to see everyone come back, but I'm willing to be reasonable. Not everyone can come back. It just wouldn't make sense for that to happen. I just hope that my favorites will come back just like everyone else hopes their favorites will come back. There's really nothing else we can do, as nothing we say here on the forum will influence Bioware. Its their decision, and one way or another, there will be a large group of people who are ecstatic, and a large group of people who are ultimately disappointed that their favorites didn't make it. 

There's also the third possibility that Bioware will be able to satisfy everyone in some degree. You're right. Lets not lose hope. There's still another one and a half years to go. Thats a lot of time to make a game amazing. 

[TomY90]

xlavaina wrote...

There's also the third possibility that Bioware will be able to satisfy everyone in some degree. You're right. Lets not lose hope. There's still another one and a half years to go. Thats a lot of time to make a game amazing. 

Yeah i agree i think regardless of what they do with ME1 and ME2 characters in ME3 pretty much everyone will be happy and I am sure if they cannot fit all the characters in on the discs they will add them in DLC packs where possible.

[mopotter]

xlavaina wrote...

adthorn82 wrote...
snip

As much as I would love to see everyone back, logically, its just not going to happen. It would take way too much development time to incorporate a whopping 22 potential squad members into the game. Even the potential 17 from the two games (or 15 excluding DLC) would be a crazy number. Bioware won't waste that much time on characters. What will probably happen is as follows:

Bioware has made comments (or so I've heard) about keeping the remaining ME1 squad alive (Virmire survivor, Liara) so that they can incorporate them into the next game. I believe that Liara will return (LotSB will tell us more), but the Virmire survivor won't. They burned their bridges with you on Horizon, and I doubt they'll be back. However, Wrex could possibly return, but then they have the fact that he doesn't survive, so its tough to tell with him. Tali and Garrus are the only two besides Liara that are guaranteed to survive and obviously, are in ME2. So basically from the first game, its either going to be Liara, Liara and Wrex or nobody (or maybe just Wrex). Again LotSB will give us more insight. 

I agree that not everyone will be back.  I also don't think they will want to put that much time and work into it.   I agree that Liara will be back but I  disagree - really strongly disagree- that Kaidan or Ash won't be back.  Kaidan sent a really sweet e-mail to my Shepard and his picture is still up on my desk.  My Shepard wants the relationship to continue and I plan on spending the rest of Shepards life with Kaidan after we take care of the minor problem of reapers.    But I do think if you don't want the relationship to continue there will be an out and they may not join the crew.   The whole point in not having the 3 of ME1 romance options not being a part of ME2 was so they would join you in ME3.  Chris said so and he does not lie.  

 Onto the ME2 squad. It is really tough to tell with them, since they can theoretically all die, or survive with Shepard, or a minimum of 2 can survive with him. Theoretically, it is possible that the survivors will all return as squad members, and you'll just have to deal with the consequences of losing some of them in ME2. There will probably be some optional recruitment missions (possibly Liara, or Wrex, for example) to make your squad more diverse. But if Bioware wants us to really deal with the consequences of ME2, this is the best way to make it happen. Hell, I could see an achievement "Defeat the Reapers using only two squad members throughout the entire game"!!! 

Then we have the possibility of...

Mordin: Liaison to the STG and salarians..., possibly old age (long shot)
Grunt: Breeding requests, helping Urdnot
Tali: Admiralty potential 
Thane: Death because of illness
Samara: Code dictates she leaves
Kasumi/Zaeed: DLC, so probability of leaving is high

So there are really and endless number of ways for Bioware to incorporate the surviving squad into the next game... Hard to tell what they'll do, but these are my predictions... 

I agree with all of this.  Though I inclined to think it has the same problems with how much effort they want to put into characters who may have died.    I would like that achievement possibility.  I've always had most of the crew survive but I do want my game choices to be reflected in ME3.    

[MrCasperTom]

Edit: Ok... that was meant to be an edit of another post -.-

Modifié par MrCasperTom, 05 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[adthorn82]

Yeah, I don't think they'll have 22 characters or more available as squadmates, but that's I what I'd want. About 18 could work well though without overkill.

If they limited you to only 12 at a time it would make for multiple playthroughs with vastly different outcomes, which would go a long way to make ME3 great.

If your alignment mattered as well.

Renegades get these two mates, Paragons get these two.

I do think playable or not, LI will have a large role, and they should impact at least two decisions.

I don't need everyone playable, but they need more facetime and impact then short scene Kaiden/Ash had in ME2.

[Zulu_DFA]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
The virmire survivor sends you an email apologizing for their attitude.

Only if romanced in ME1.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
So I wouldn't rule them out.

Neither would I. The VS has the second best chance to come back as squadmate. Because the VS survives through ME2 as well. It's EITHER Ashley OR Kaidan. And there is even a theory, that the one left behind on Virmire may "survive" also, to become a huskified main antagonist in ME3.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
What you have to understand is that Bioware knew where they were going with the suicide mission being able to kill off characters.

What you have to understand is that since BioWare knew where they were going with the "suicide mission", they undoubtedly planned for the new ME3 squad even before the "2" hit the stores.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
They wanted to have a wide range of possible outcomes for the third game based on this factor.

Evidence?
Do they want to have a wide range of outcomes for ME3? Yes. Are they going to make it dependent on the ME2's "suicide mission" outcome? No, they are going to make it dependent on the "BIG CHOICES".

Or are they? They only say they want it, not that they will be definitely able to pull it off other than in a cosmetic way. It's already a chalenge to make 4 outcomes dependent solely on the both game's final choices (Council and C-Base). Then they have all these genophages, Rachni queens, Cerberus data packages... There is simply no room for Tali, Jack, Mordin, etc. statuses to impact the ME3 outcome.

ME3 outcome: Reapers defeated/win, Shepard lives/dies, balance of power in the Galaxy of Mankind / former Council races / non-Council races.

ME2 squadmates = random people. The "suicide mission" accounted for the gameplay choices (which were less choices as such than just a game completion rate). It's done. In "3" they will be completely optional content, peripheral to the story and with zero impact as to the outcome.

And, regarding the "suicide mission" "choices", in case you didn't know, even the "all dead" ending is technically still a win. The Collectors are defeated, even if Shepard dies. You only can't import that into ME3, because BioWare isn't going to give you another protagonist for ME3. They could (theoratically) make something up like TIM finds another galactic superhero, maybe Shpeard's long lost brohter/sister and you play ME3 as Shepard of the opposite sex, if the original one died in your ME2... That would be funny, but still enough of a logistical nightmare to be deemed commercially inefficient.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
This is what will allow people's games to be significantly different from one another. All of the choices from the first two games, including the "choice" of who does what in the suicide mission, will cascade in the third game and determine how the 3rd game will play out.

Right. Only the "choice" of who does what in the "suicide mission" has already cascaded in the epilogue cutscene in form and the number of coffins you see. Of course, it'll be also reflected in ME3, only not in the outcome, but in optional content.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
There were about 2 interviews where Casey Hudson stated this, and the fact about how even though the squadmates are easily killed in the suicide mission, it gives them a large set of permutations on how the third game will play out. I'll see If I can dig it up again. It's somewhere in one of these pages.

Yes, please, dig up an interview where Casey Hudson stated that "permutations" are given by the "suicide mission", and not by anything else. Dig up the evidence that the ME2 squad fatalities will impact the outcome of ME3, and not the optional content, and your case is done. Only it has to be actual evidence, and not some first stuff you come across and percieve as one and try to present as one with a mix of "Yo, behold!" and "Have faith in BioWare!" rhetoric.

PoliteAssasin wrote...
-Polite

...who has no pluck to announce the result of his PM to Christina Norman, that was supposed to serve as evidence for his claim that "Same Team" in a certain Christina Norman's chart means "same Shepard's team", rather than "same BioWare gameplay designing team", but apparently failed.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:36 .

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

What you have to understand is that since BioWare knew where they were going with the "suicide mission", they undoubtedly planned for the new ME3 squad even before the "2" hit the stores.

Pardon, but the mission in ME1 was described as a suicide mission too. Garrus's comments to Shepard on learning Shep is working with Cerberus now likewise essentially say 'same old same old.'

If it really is intended to be a suicide mission, then Shep would not be there in ME3. Everyone else might, but Shep wouldn't be. If Shep lives and others die, it is actually a homicide mission...

[OneDrunkMonk]

It's really quite simple. You can at some point of time have any of the previously surviving squad members as part of your crew/squad, but not all of them at once. Team members will be picked up and dropped off at different points in the game. I assume that various characters will lead various teams against the Reapers at various points in the galaxy. So let's say you leave Tali and Thane with the Quarian fleet to assist their assault. For your final mission you'll probably get a choice of of the final 2 to follow you. So this way you get to utilize all characters in ME3.



What would be really cool is if you could embody a team leader other than Shepard as they lead their assault/defense against the Reapers in their sector of the galaxy.

[Commander Kurt]

****, we don´t even know if there is going to be a squad in ME3. The solution presented by OneDrunkMonk is interesting, and I'm leaning towards something like that aswell.



IF we have the same type of scenario (squad) in the final episode, I do believe that we will get most of the old gang back. Yes, it would be difficult. No, it would not be a waste (having 15+ squadmates in one game, now that's a waste). It would, quite possibly, be the easiest way of impressing us.



Frankly, the qlues are pointing in this direction (the teamfocus of ME2, the constant nagging about how we need our squad loyal and our ship upgraded, and how you have to have some people survive the game). Will it be a nightmare for the devs? Sure. The whole series is made to be a nightmare for the devs.



I'm not saying I know how it is going to play out, and I will gladly murder Liara, Tali, and Samara in their sleep if it means I can get Aria and Kal Reegar on my squad. I'm just looking at the clues we are given, and they point in the "return of old SM"-direction. I do suspect however that our desicions in ME/ME2 will not result in totally different outcomes, but rather slightly different. I am very happy with that, this game is still the most interactive one I've played.

[MrCasperTom]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Evidence?
Do they want to have a wide range of outcomes for ME3? Yes. Are they going to make it dependent on the ME2's "suicide mission" outcome? No, they are going to make it dependent on the "BIG CHOICES".

Evidence his here -  http://www.computera...e.php?id=258534

[Zulu_DFA]

MrCasperTom wrote...

Evidence his here -  http://www.computera...e.php?id=258534

Evidence of what? Of 1000 e-mails?

PoliteAssassin's claim is that "the choices made during the "sucide mission" in ME2 which have resulted in squadmates' death/survival will affect the outcome of ME3". I say, that not only there isn't any evidence of that, but it is also a more illogical and deranged speculation than that about all ME2 squadmates returning in ME3 as squadmates.

It's one thing to make the Rachni queen bite you in the ass, or the true Geth turn on you if you advised the Quarians to go to war with them, and make the ME3 outcome depend on such things... And it is totally lunatic to say that appointing Zaeed for Fire Team 1 leader and thus making Tali eat a rocket will affect the ME3 outcome.

Having a squadmate dead is not a choice. It's an outcome. And although it will have some further consequence (if only for BioWare to say "Look, players, we have consequences!"), none of the ME2 squadmates is (was) of major importance in the ME universe. Not even close to such characters as TIM, Anderson, Udina, Aria, Liara, Admiral Xen, or Urdnot Wreav.

[MrCasperTom]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

MrCasperTom wrote...

Evidence his here -  http://www.computera...e.php?id=258534

Evidence of what? Of 1000 e-mails?

PoliteAssassin's claim is that "the choices made during the "sucide mission" in ME2 which have resulted in squadmates' death/survival will affect the outcome of ME3". I say, that not only there isn't any evidence of that, but it is also a more illogical and deranged speculation than that about all ME2 squadmates returning in ME3 as squadmates.

It's one thing to make the Rachni queen bite you in the ass, or the true Geth turn on you if you advised the Quarians to go to war with them, and make the ME3 outcome depend on such things... And it is totally lunatic to say that appointing Zaeed for Fire Team 1 leader and thus making Tali eat a rocket will affect the ME3 outcome.

Having a squadmate dead is not a choice. It's an outcome. And although it will have some further consequence (if only for BioWare to say "Look, players, we have consequences!"), none of the ME2 squadmates is (was) of major importance in the ME universe. Not even close to such characters as TIM, Anderson, Udina, Aria, Liara, Admiral Xen, or Urdnot Wreav.

Yeah I agree that it's not certain proof that all or any of the characters will come back as sqaudmates but it seems to suggest that they are working towards taking anything you've done affecting the final game. The different sotry variations might be a reflection of this or they might not.

You could also argue that it is your choices that decide who dies or not. You choose who is squad leader, biotic specalist etc. Really that's just semantics and at the end of the day it's down to Bioware to decide.

I don't think it's that illogical to expect the squadmates back but I also think it's equally possible that there will be a new squad if we do in fact have a squad. I never really get the 'time and money' arguement as apparantly it seems as if all voice actors for squadmembers have been signed up for ME3, which would cost money, and then hiring more voice actors for other squad members would cost some more. Also it would take time to voice the roles of all the new squad members in certain situations as each squad member could be in each mission etc. So really that swings either way.

Remember you need at least 2 squad members alive. Add the 2 from ME1 and you can have 4 members of your squad, if everyone comes back that is (if Wrex is alive I doubt he'd be back ot be honest). In ME1 you can have just 2 squad members at one point in the game for missions; don't recruit Garrus, Kill Wrex and one of the two on Virmire, don't hire Liara until after Virmire, you can do a lot of sub missions and obviously Liara's mission using only 2 squad members. So the possibility of a limited squad due to choices is there.

I think that it would be better if the squad came back and those that are dead stay dead. It would mean your choices had an effect besides the amount of coffins you see at the end of ME2

[Zulu_DFA]

MrCasperTom wrote...
Remember you need at least 2 squad members alive. Add the 2 from ME1 and you can have 4 members of your squad, if everyone comes back that is (if Wrex is alive I doubt he'd be back ot be honest). In ME1 you can have just 2 squad members at one point in the game for missions; don't recruit Garrus, Kill Wrex and one of the two on Virmire, don't hire Liara until after Virmire, you can do a lot of sub missions and obviously Liara's mission using only 2 squad members. So the possibility of a limited squad due to choices is there.

FYI:
If you hadn't recruit both Garrus and Liara, the game won't allow you to kill Wrex on Virmire.

The fact that there is a requirement of 2 squadmates for Shepard to survive is attributed to the option of continued playing of ME2 after the completion of the "suicide mission". But Those two may be any combination, including the most improbable to return in ME3: Morinth&Kasumi, Morinth&Thane, etc. Using this argument is like saying that you think all ME2 squadmates will be back as squadmates.

Also, you can't get this result in the game, but with a little GSE tweaking you can have Shepard with 0 squadmates alive. You can continue playing, that is run around the Normandy, but you'll get stuck if you try to land/dock somewhere (in the "choose squad" screen). However, you can save the game and start a NG+ with such a save. So the bets are on succesfully importing the "all squadmates dead" save into ME3.

MrCasperTom wrote...
I think that it would be better if the squad came back and those that are dead stay dead. It would mean your choices had an effect besides the amount of coffins you see at the end of ME2

As I've said, it's not really the choices as such that affect the "suicide mission" death toll. It's much more about game completion. Unless you consider "To upgrade or not to upgrade... this is the question!" a choice. Still, as I've also said, it will have effect in ME3. Like the real choices with Wrex and some NPCs in ME1. Character dead = no cameo, or cameo with a stunt double in the next game. Some popular characters may become DLC squadmates with no connection to the plot whatsoever. But for Zaeed, as much as I love him, I want a cameo role rather than a DLC squadmate role.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 septembre 2010 - 12:28 .

[xlavaina]

Sorry guys but Polite has a very valid point. It is quite possible that the squad members you lost or kept alive in ME2 has a drastic impact on ME3. Maybe the "suicide mission" in ME3 will involve taking down the reapers with the combined might of all the organic races alive in the Milky Way. That means that each of your teammates could be instrumental in helping you gain the trust and help of said race. Maybe this suicide mission's outcome could hang in the balance of how many fleets and races you got to help you. So that would mean:



Garrus - Turians

Mordin - STG and Salarians

Thane - Drell (though I'm not sure that they have a fleet)

Jacob/VS - Alliance

Miranda - Cerberus (possibly, since you cut ties with them, but its still possible)

Tali - Quarians

Grunt/Wrex/Wreav - Krogans



And then you have the decision in ME1 about the Rachni.



This is only a possibility, but the surviving members of your squad could make it easier to gain the support of these races (maybe there will still be a paragon/renegade persuasion option or something), but having your squad surviving will make it much easier. This is only my theory.



And @ Mrcaspertom: there will definitely be a squad. No doubt in my mind. The question is, who will be in it?

[Zulu_DFA]

xlavaina wrote...

Sorry guys but Polite has a very valid point. It is quite possible that the squad members you lost or kept alive in ME2 has a drastic impact on ME3. Maybe the "suicide mission" in ME3 will involve taking down the reapers with the combined might of all the organic races alive in the Milky Way. That means that each of your teammates could be instrumental in helping you gain the trust and help of said race. Maybe this suicide mission's outcome could hang in the balance of how many fleets and races you got to help you. So that would mean:

Garrus - Turians
Mordin - STG and Salarians
Thane - Drell (though I'm not sure that they have a fleet)
Jacob/VS - Alliance
Miranda - Cerberus (possibly, since you cut ties with them, but its still possible)
Tali - Quarians
Grunt/Wrex/Wreav - Krogans

And then you have the decision in ME1 about the Rachni.

This is only a possibility, but the surviving members of your squad could make it easier to gain the support of these races (maybe there will still be a paragon/renegade persuasion option or something), but having your squad surviving will make it much easier. This is only my theory.

And @ Mrcaspertom: there will definitely be a squad. No doubt in my mind. The question is, who will be in it?

Garrus = bad Turian. Scratched off.
Mordin = OK, but he always has that nephew of his...
Thane = gonna die anyway, his son is a punk and the Drell have no fleet - they are Hanars' serfs.
Jacob = Alliance ??? He is not Alliance, he was Alliance. Anderson was Alliance. You were Alliance. Udina IS Alliance.
Miranda = Cerberus ??? You are Cerberus!!! If you've quit, that's been your choice. TIM will continue to work towards stopping the Reapers regardless, he ain't idiot.
Tali = Quarians??? She's exiled!!! Or hates you!!! Admiral Xen is the Quarians. Or Admiral Quib-Quib.
Wrex, etc. = Krogans. Krogan fleet???

And this idea that you'll need to "gather allies" in ME3 to win agaist the Reapers seems (a) cheap, ( dull, © cliche, and (d) implausible, because the Reapers will deep-six you no matter how many allies you can gather, because they play a couple of leagues above you. You'll need to upgrade yourself to their league first , and that means story, or plot, to which the ME2 expendables can't contribute a penny because the may all be dead!!!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 septembre 2010 - 12:53 .

[xlavaina]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Garrus = bad Turian. Scratched off.
Mordin = OK, but he always has that nephew of his...
Thane = gonna die anyway, his son is a punk and the Drell have no fleet - they are Hanars' serfs.
Jacob = Alliance ??? He is not Alliance, he was Alliance. Anderson was Alliance. You were Alliance. Udina IS Alliance.
Miranda = Cerberus ??? You are Cerberus!!! If you've quit, that's been your choice. TIM will continue to work towards stopping the Reapers regardless, he ain't idiot.
Tali = Quarians??? She's exiled!!! Or hates you!!! Admiral Xen is the Quarians. Or Admiral Quib-Quib.
Wrex, etc. = Krogans. Krogan fleet???

And this idea that you'll need to "gather allies" in ME3 to win agaist the Reapers seems (a) cheap, ( dull, © cliche, and (d) implausible, because the Reapers will deep-six you no matter how many allies you can gather, because they play a couple of leagues above you. You'll need to upgrade yourself to their league first , and that means story, or plot, to which the ME2 expendables can't contribute a penny because the may all be dead!!!

So... What I'm gathering from this is:

1. You believe that Commander Shepard, alone with the Normandy and without a squad, can single handedly defeat the entire invading Reaper force after a major upgrade to their league? 
2. The squad is not important. 

Let me point out everything wrong with this idea:

1. Even if the Normandy was somehow upgraded to "reaper level", theres only one of it! You have one ship, the Reapers arguably have thousands, hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of dreadnoughts. So, no matter how big and badass you make the Normandy: 
a million Reapers > Normandy . Period 

2. Lets argue for a second that your outlook on the Normandy is correct. Lets say you lead a deep strike into dark space to attack... say the Reaper home world to shut down their collective hub or something. It doesn't matter what you're attacking, lets just say that there is a target of high value that you must assault. Lets say for a second that this is possible with the Normandy. You're saying that Shepard is going to do this alone? With no backup save for the Normandy's extraction capabilities and EDI's intelligence operations? Now this is implausible. There is simply no way that you can do anything without your squad. Additionally, who is going to even man your ship? I can think of no better gunnery officer than Garrus, no better scientist than Mordin and no better engineer than Tali. Even if you lose the majority of your squad, you're still going to need a replacement. Sure you can survive the suicide mission without those people, but there's no way you're going up against the Reapers missing key players on your ship. There is absolutely no way you can defeat the Reapers without a great team. According to the Illusive Man, you couldn't even defeat the Collectors without a great team. So how do you expect to fight an enemy roughly... oh I don't know, a million times as powerful?

3. Now onto the gathering allies point. 

a. cheap. As in inferior? Of poor quality? Poor mission quality? I honestly have no idea what you're saying here. 

b. dull. Definitely not at all. I will give you a great example. How would resolving the Quarian-Geth conflict to gain both of their race's support be dull? This conflict dives into a world of politics, clashing ideals, morals and ethics. The Geth were seemingly attacked without provocation while [most of] the Quarians feel like they were drove from their home world and that it wasn't their fault. How would this be, in any way, shape or form, dull? How about another example. There is the Turian-Krogan conflict over the genophage that would probably have to be resolved before they could work together. Oh and by the way, I know that the Krogans don't have a fleet. But an army of Krogans on say, a Turian dreadnought would make for a nasty landing party. Recruiting the different races would definitely not be dull.

c. cliche. I'll give you that, it would be cliche, but who cares? Every game is going to have cliche moments. 

d. implausible. Definitely not. You survived against impossible odds and came out on top. In ME1 you defeated
Sovereign and saved the Galaxy. You then were resurrected after dying. Then, you defeated the Collectors by being the first non-Collector ship EVER to pass through the O4 relay, survive, defeat them in their home, and escape alive, saving the human race, and possibly the Galaxy, AGAIN. Don't go and state that something in the ME universe is implausible when the entire game is BASED on the implausible. 

4. Addressing your specific squad member points: 

What I meant was that having worked with your squad members could help ease tensions between the races. 

Garrus = bad Turian. Scratched off.
What does this even mean?

Mordin = OK, but he always has that nephew of his...
We appear to agree here.

Thane = gonna die anyway, his son is a punk and the Drell have no fleet - they are Hanars' serfs.
Fine, I said this. 

Jacob = Alliance ??? He is not Alliance, he was Alliance. Anderson was Alliance. You were Alliance. Udina IS Alliance.
Yeah. I know he WAS Alliance. Because Jacob worked for the Alliance for so long, he could be instrumental, along with yourself, in regaining their trust after working so long with Cerberus. 

Miranda = Cerberus ??? You are Cerberus!!! If you've quit, that's been your choice. TIM will continue to work towards stopping the Reapers regardless, he ain't idiot.
But he probably won't grant Shepard any DIRECT help. Miranda might be able to use her background to help with this. 

Tali = Quarians??? She's exiled!!! Or hates you!!! Admiral Xen is the Quarians. Or Admiral Quib-Quib.
It has been implied across the two games that she is headed for a position on the admiralty board. This is a long shot, I'll give you that, but she is arguably one of the most famous Quarians, after the Sovereign incident and the trial. Through her, you could gain the Migrant Fleet's trust and assistance. If she's exiled, well then I don't know, but neither does anyone else. 

Wrex, etc. = Krogans. Krogan fleet???
Yes... I know that... I thought it was obvious. If the Krogans know how to do one thing, however, its the ability to fight. They are warriors, and would be a great help in close quarter combat, assuming that it is needed. But if CQC is not needed, then neither will the Krogans. 

Okay last point. Why would the allied races even be needed, you ask? Well as I said, one ship is not going to be enough to do anything. But a couple thousand ships from all the races combined might be enough to punch a hole through their formations and possibly disrupt quite a bit, while attacking key targets. One way or another, there will have to be a mission specific objective besides going head on against the Reapers, because...

a million Reapers > 1000 allied Ships from all the races 

BOTTOM LINE: You need a squad. 

Okay I'm done. 

Modifié par xlavaina, 06 septembre 2010 - 01:45 .

[Zulu_DFA]

xlavaina wrote...
So... What I'm gathering from this is: You believe that Commander Shepard, alone with the Normandy and without a squad, can single handedly defeat the entire invading Reaper force after a major upgrade to their league? 2. The squad is not important. 

I think that in ME3 Commander Shepard will be instrumental to defeating the Reapers. With a new squad + most probably Liara and VS, Commander Shepard will find the... let's say "artifact", that will upgrade the Council races' fleets to the Reaper level... or make the space battle unnecessary at all. The ME's and 2's endgame choices will possibly play a significant part in defining the outcome of ME3. The Quarians, Krogans, Geth and Rachni will have only minor input (if any) to the finale's outcome.

The ME2 expendable squadmates will have zero impact. The LIs will probably have the most fleshed out cameos(in case you romanced them, and especially if you cheated on the ME1 LI = catfight). That'd provide enough "emotional engagement" for those interested in this sort of thing. If they are to have some plot connection, they will require a "stunt double" like Wreav for Wrex.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:08 .

[xlavaina]

Ah okay. The only point where we disagree now is that the ME2 squad will mean nothing. I think they will all either have pinnacle rolls as cameos or be optional squad members.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

MrCasperTom wrote...

Evidence his here -  http://www.computera...e.php?id=258534

Evidence of what? Of 1000 e-mails?

PoliteAssassin's claim is that "the choices made during the "sucide mission" in ME2 which have resulted in squadmates' death/survival will affect the outcome of ME3". I say, that not only there isn't any evidence of that, but it is also a more illogical and deranged speculation than that about all ME2 squadmates returning in ME3 as squadmates.

It's one thing to make the Rachni queen bite you in the ass, or the true Geth turn on you if you advised the Quarians to go to war with them, and make the ME3 outcome depend on such things... And it is totally lunatic to say that appointing Zaeed for Fire Team 1 leader and thus making Tali eat a rocket will affect the ME3 outcome.

Having a squadmate dead is not a choice. It's an outcome. And although it will have some further consequence (if only for BioWare to say "Look, players, we have consequences!"), none of the ME2 squadmates is (was) of major importance in the ME universe. Not even close to such characters as TIM, Anderson, Udina, Aria, Liara, Admiral Xen, or Urdnot Wreav.

Once again, your pessimism never ceases to amaze me.  What are the "Big" choices of Mass 2, if not who lives and dies at the end of the game? In addition to saving the base, or not saving the base - what other Big choices are there if you don't count the casualties/survivors of the suicide mission. 

Well Mr. Hudson would like to disagree with you on your claim that it isn't a big choice. 

malevolente: I hope I'm not spoiling anything for anyone, but the devs have stated that all squadmates (and Shepard) can die at the end of ME2. Or everyone can survive. And given that Ashley or Kaidan could die in ME, wouldn't that make having a squad in ME3 of any of the squadmates from both games (except Liara) difficult? Are you still considering this option, or is an entirely new squad likely to be present in ME3? I'm sure that putting ME2 and ME squadmates on the backburner for the final installment of...

CaseyH-ME2: Yes, it's definitely difficult to continue the fiction when we allow major characters to be **bleep**ed off by player actions. But, that's part of the fun, and the impact of major consequences. One reason that the love interests were not recruitable in ME2 (but are still part of the story) is that they need to be around for the ongoing story in ME3.


Now what? There's your evidence. And that's just one quote, I have a lot more that I've used in the past that all point to the same thing. So you were just proven wrong. Again. Might want to take back your statement that there's no evidence, because clearly there is.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

xlavaina wrote...
So... What I'm gathering from this is: You believe that Commander Shepard, alone with the Normandy and without a squad, can single handedly defeat the entire invading Reaper force after a major upgrade to their league? 2. The squad is not important. 

I think that in ME3 Commander Shepard will be instrumental to defeating the Reapers. With a new squad + most probably Liara and VS, Commander Shepard will find the... let's say "artifact", that will upgrade the Council races' fleets to the Reaper level... or make the space battle unnecessary at all. The ME's and 2's endgame choices will possibly play a significant part in defining the outcome of ME3. The Quarians, Krogans, Geth and Rachni will have only minor input (if any) to the finale's outcome.

The ME2 expendable squadmates will have zero impact. The LIs will probably have the most fleshed out cameos(in case you romanced them, and especially if you cheated on the ME1 LI = catfight). That'd provide enough "emotional engagement" for those interested in this sort of thing. If they are to have some plot connection, they will require a "stunt double" like Wreav for Wrex.

The virmire survivor could die too, they're expendable. Only one lives out of Ashley/Kaidan. It's the same exact thing with the Mass 2 squad but on a larger scale. You are not making any sense at all.

-Polite

[Zulu_DFA]

@ PoliteAssasin.

So, according to Casey Hudson, if you made a squadmate die in the "suicide mission", in ME3 you will have a "major consequence" of ... (surprise!)

Spoiler

that character being dead

, period.

And the Virmire Survivor is not expendable. The Virmire Survivor equates (Ashlley PLUS Kaidan) DIVIDED by 2. That means one full health character. I think that's the only explanation you haven't been presented that VS is not the same as ME2 squadmates. However I'm not hopeful about you ever getting it.

OK, let's try once more, nonetheless. On Virmire there were TWO characters, and now there is ONE.

On the "suicide mission" there were 8, or maybe 9, or maybe 10, or maybe 11, or maybe 12 characters, and now there are 12, or maybe 11, or maybe 10, or maybe 9, or maybe 8, or maybe 7, or maybe 6, or maybe 5, or maybe 4, or maybe 3, or maybe 2, or maybe even 1, or maybe even 0 characters.

And, how about answering my post directed at you and not the posts directed at some other people?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[smudboy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@ PoliteAssasin.

So, according to Casey Hudson, if you made a squadmate die in the "suicide mission", in ME3 you will have a "major consequence" of ... (surprise!)

Spoiler

that character being dead

!!!

And the Virmire Survivor is not expendable. The Virmire Survivor equates (Ashlley PLUS Kaidan) DIVIDED by 2. That means one full health character. I think that's the only explanation you haven't been presented that VS is not the same as ME2 squadmates. However I'm not hopeful about you ever getting it.

OK, let's try once more, nonetheless. On Virmire there were TWO characters, and now there is ONE.

On the "suicide mission" there were 8, or maybe 9, or maybe 10, or maybe 11, or maybe 12 characters, and now there are 12, or maybe 11, or maybe 10, or maybe 9, or maybe 8, or maybe 7, or maybe 6, or maybe 5, or maybe 4, or maybe 3, or maybe 2, or maybe even 1, or maybe even 0 characters.

And, how about answering my post directed at you and not the posts directed at some other people?

I'd like to point out Casey's language:
"Yes, it's definitely difficult to continue the fiction when we allow major characters to be **bleep**ed off by player actions. But, that's part of the fun, and the impact of major consequences. One reason that the love interests were not recruitable in ME2 (but are still part of the story) is that they need to be around for the ongoing story in ME3."

1. It's difficult.  (Thus, the simplest solution will be tried.)
2. It's part of the fun.
3. The impact of a character is not major: the consequence is major.  Not the consequence of who was chosen/killed.  (We have to ask: what major consequences?)
4. Love interests (Ash/Kaidan/Liara) need to be around.

So I don't know exactly how 1. Zulu was proven wrong, 2. On what grounds, 3. With what evidence.

Now if I'm wrong, to summarize, Zulu please correct me: but I believe you stated that whether a character lives or dies is irrelevant.  I do not see how Casey's comment challenges that, aside from him stating his job is tough, choices are fun, there are major consequences to choices, and some ME1 characters will be around in ME3.

All choices have to be accountable and displayed in the proceeding narrative.  For ME2, in regards to death, the simplest solution always seems to be the winner (Fist, Blake, Shiala, Wrex/Wreav, Ash/Kaidan, etc.)

[Zulu_DFA]

smudboy wrote...

Now if I'm wrong, to summarize, Zulu please correct me: but I believe you stated that whether a character lives or dies is irrelevant.

It's irrelevant regarding the ME3 plot and outcome. The only killable squadmate who's death may (or may not) impact - very slightly - the ME3 outcome is Wrex.

The ME2 squadmates are all plot devices until the end of their respective "loyalty" missions. Then, they are stuff to fiddle with on the Normandy, akin to the sound system and the fishtank. And, as soon as you order Joker to enter the Omega-4 Gate, they become essentially red shirts. Yeah, even Zaeed [sigh].

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 septembre 2010 - 03:11 .