2338 réponses à ce sujet

[stysiaq]

Sorry, but I didn't have the endurance to go through all the thread.

Some of the people here assume, that expendable squad will have no influence in fighting off the Reapers. Well, my point of view is quite the contrary (I have no idea, if this had been said before)
ME3 gameplay will be similiar to the frist two games. Means, you controll Shep and 2 squadmates. But how can bipedal-6 foot tall creatures fight with 2-kilometers long Reapers? In ME, the Sovereign/Nazara was weakened by massive Alliance fleet, but the main fight took place with its "incarnation", controlled remains of Saren's body. In ME2, we encountered a "Reaper larva" (I prefer to call it fetus) in direct combat. Still, we didn't shoot to a hulking, double-scyscraper sized ancient ship. So, logically, we can presume that massive space battles will occur.

However, the fleet itself didn't do much to the Sovereign. Even if Sovereign was amongst the mightiest of its kind (he had a sort of responsible quest, which shouldn't be left to some billion-year old youngster) and we agree that it is possible, that not all the reapers are equally powerful, fighting the Reapers would require not only unity among all the races, but also developing a more effective weaponry.

And, in my opinion, a switch to space-battle driven Reaper War, would affect the gameplay, or even make Shepherds efforts seem vague and unimportant. What's the deal, (s)he defeated one Reaper, the combined space community blasted the remaining 999999. Thanks for starting, Shep.

No. Shepherds role must be significant, and he should fight with the reapers personally. With his squadmates. Not some commanding-the-fleet-strategy-like gameplay.

And how do you kill a Reaper without a city-size gun? Well, I guess you should enter it.
That's the thing. Enter the reaper (possible), fight your way through anything inside (possible), destroy Mass Effect core / Reapers "brain module" / possibly some ancient race shaped fetus? (since all the reapers resemble squids/cthulus it is possible that they differ within those shells, or that the "squid" surrounds terminator-like massive robots). Possible. Reapers destroyed, Reaper Assault FTW.

That is just my guess, but I think this supports the idea of continuing the TPP shooter gameplay. Also, it makes such races as the Krogan valuable allies, as they would surely be good at blasting the way through the interior of a Reaper.

Remember this NASA project, when a science vessel of some kind hit the asteroid? It was called space Impact or sth like that. The point is, that it would be a way to enter the Reaper. Some kind of assault pod, shot at the Reaper, with a trooper commando onboard. If you get the idea, the rest is simple. Shepherd gets to kill the Harbinger, galaxy saved.

And as for the companion squad... I want some heavy armored elcor. Preferably from the Hamlet original cast. It would bore the Reapers to death.

Modifié par stysiaq, 06 septembre 2010 - 03:39 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Must be a hassle for you to login to one account and then back into another huh?



-Polite

[stysiaq]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Must be a hassle for you to login to one account and then back into another huh?

-Polite

You say what?

[Zulu_DFA]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Must be a hassle for you to login to one account and then back into another huh?

-Polite

Adding to the discussion... I see.

So, what's with that private message to Christina Norman of yours?

Maybe it's time you sent one to Casey Hudson too?

[Harley_Dude]

It is possible the ships are an avatar the Reapers just occupy. They may be some type of parasitic intelligence that can jump from host to host. Remember the old Star Trek episode with the two wizards?

[stysiaq]

Well, I read some of the last posts and I agree, that the squadmates from ME2 are rather too small fish to care about. Their insignificance was sealed along with allowing them to die. BioWare made - as for me - a huge mistake, by not preserving ANY npc, save for liara, from dying throughout the trilogy.

I had high expectations, believed, that Shepherd will have 2, 3 close companions, squadmates to pick in part 1, 2 and 3. After finishing ME, I believed Wrex would be that one, because, besides you can have him killed, he was simply the coolest guy around. A tough guy, well designed race. Galaxy should be saved by him-alikes. Surprisingly, ME devs gave the players possibility to kill him off, thus abandoning the idea. What is more, he is definitely KIA when starting ME2. And that's just dumb.

I just finished my second ME2 game, and the only companion I really felt any connection with was Thane. Can't say the same about rest of the crew. Suicide mission prohibits any further (significant) usage of all the crew members; Tali and Garrus, (none of each I truly cared for), can die (Tali's death one of the most possible) assuring that we won't have any whole-trilogy allies. Zaeed (I really like him, since he's a badass veteran, lil' bit Wrex-like. Too bad we can't really talk to him) can die during his loyalty, so even without suicide mission, his reapperance in ME3 will be at most symbolic.

Suicide mission idea is both a blessing and a curse; I like the idea itself, but it forces the epilogue to contain whole new cast of npcs. That means no Mass Effect Han Solo or Chewbacca, which I really pity.

The real force in ME universe are characters like TIM: with power and money to wage war. Like the Quarian Admirals with the fleet. But no individuals, like Ash, Kaidan, Jacob, Miranda, Thane and so on. Few crew members (like Tali with her high position among the Quarians or Wrex, who could uniete the Krogan clans) were significant enough to be of an importance in ME3, but BioWare shut this way with their own hands.

I want an Elcor soldier with heavy weapons stripped to his back.
Also, never considered Liara a good npc. Little bit funny, but nothing else. Do Not Want in ME3.

Modifié par stysiaq, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

stysiaq wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Must be a hassle for you to login to one account and then back into another huh?

-Polite

You say what?

Not you, smud/zulu.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

stysiaq wrote...

Well, I read some of the last posts and I agree, that the squadmates from ME2 are rather too small fish to care about. Their insignificance was sealed along with allowing them to die. BioWare made - as for me - a huge mistake, by not preserving ANY npc, save for liara, from dying throughout the trilogy.

I had high expectations, believed, that Shepherd will have 2, 3 close companions, squadmates to pick in part 1, 2 and 3. After finishing ME, I believed Wrex would be that one, because, besides you can have him killed, he was simply the coolest guy around. A tough guy, well designed race. Galaxy should be saved by him-alikes. Surprisingly, ME devs gave the players possibility to kill him off, thus abandoning the idea. What is more, he is definitely KIA when starting ME2. And that's just dumb.

I just finished my second ME2 game, and the only companion I really felt any connection with was Thane. Can't say the same about rest of the crew. Suicide mission prohibits any further (significant) usage of all the crew members; Tali and Garrus, (none of each I truly cared for), can die (Tali's death one of the most possible) assuring that we won't have any whole-trilogy allies. Zaeed (I really like him, since he's a badass veteran, lil' bit Wrex-like. Too bad we can't really talk to him) can die during his loyalty, so even without suicide mission, his reapperance in ME3 will be at most symbolic.

Suicide mission idea is both a blessing and a curse; I like the idea itself, but it forces the epilogue to contain whole new cast of npcs. That means no Mass Effect Han Solo or Chewbacca, which I really pity.

The real force in ME universe are characters like TIM: with power and money to wage war. Like the Quarian Admirals with the fleet. But no individuals, like Ash, Kaidan, Jacob, Miranda, Thane and so on. Few crew members (like Tali with her high position among the Quarians or Wrex, who could uniete the Krogan clans) were significant enough to be of an importance in ME3, but BioWare shut this way with their own hands.

I want an Elcor soldier with heavy weapons stripped to his back.
Also, never considered Liara a good npc. Little bit funny, but nothing else. Do Not Want in ME3.

The squadmates were not insignificant at all. The whole game was about the squad. So that statement is false.

-Polite

[stysiaq]

Well, as for Your little quarrel, time will show, who is right. Personally, I WISH that the results of suicide mission were important, I really do. But considering that ME2 can end totally different for one player and another, I worry, that it is just too big variable hell for any company to subdue.

Hope the future proves me wrong, but it's just easier for BioWare to focus on the bigger fish, like TIM.

end when I wrote about the insignificance of squadmates I meant that they were just too unimportant for the whole galaxy. they were rather small figures. I love Thane, and he can be the best assassin in the milky way, but that doesn't change the fact that he won't persuade the Hanar race to mobilize.

Yes, ME2 IS about assembling your squad, but this won't rather work in ME3. The scale will get bigger, and even the best squad in the universe doesn't have enough firepower to fight an army.

Modifié par stysiaq, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:23 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

stysiaq wrote...

Yes, ME2 IS about assembling your squad,
but this won't rather work in ME3. The scale will get bigger, and even
the best squad in the universe doesn't have enough firepower to fight an
army.

They managed to fight an army of collectors in the second game.


In response to the wild variations of how Mass 3 can play out:

"It has to be one or the either. Either you really let people's choices
have repercussion. Or, the choice doesn't really affect things and then
things end up coming back together. As
we're doing parts one and two, we have a really difficult challenge in
terms of creating very different outcomes and yet being able to continue
the story. The
good thing about the third one will be that we no longer have that
constraint and things can diverge as far as we can make them go.

That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the
things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let
it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions.
That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going
into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in
motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm
not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of
this content that would have been different if I had made other
choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it.
The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much
more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the
trilogy."

http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1055366p2.html

-Polite

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:42 .

[Harley_Dude]

Shepard steps out of the shuttle and is met by the geth emissary. "Shepard Commander it is good to see you again". With a puzzled look Shepard inquires "Legion? I thought you were dead". The geth replies "There was a hole".



Or the alternative.



Shepard replies "You're the geth from the relay". Angrily the geth snaps back "And YOU sold me to Cerberus you effing dick"



I've resolved the death of one crew member. Sorry for the literary failure, I was a Finance major.

[stysiaq]

Well, the theory and practice can differ. I wish that the whole ME trilogy would have replay value of a scale never seen before. If we are really going to get ME3 where all the big choices from previous games will have a great impact on the gameplay, I'll be in gaming heaven. But still, I prefer to keep my expectations not too high; Being able to, fo example, pick 3 alive squadmates from your ME2 save and command them, would be just awesome. Still, its wishful thinking. Putting each squadmate from ME2 in ME3 costs money. And when you can end ME2 with just two of 12 squadmates alive, you will need new npcs. They cost money. They cost time. And both time and money, are limited.

And, just for the record, the result of suicide mission IS one  of big choices. You decide, which loyalty quests you will complete, you can decide who is going to die (if you really want to kill somebody), the fate of the crew is in your hands.

Modifié par stysiaq, 06 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[vigna]

Well, I think ME3 will revolve around the non-council races. As the Alliance may not see the Reapers as a threat until the end game...your relationship with cerberus (quitting or not) will also affect their reactions.



The Quarians and the Geth will play a role--this is set up and the way you played ME2 will affect this. (Tali and Legion decisions will play into this)



The Krogans and the Salarians--how did the genophage/wrex play out in ME1 and ME2?



Did the Rachni survive?



Cerberus and the Shadow Broker outcomes will also affect ME3.



For obvious reasons (being that the council are big jerks) the council races will have a kind of representative on your ship. Whether that is Garrus, Liara, Mordin, VS human doesn't quite matter, but it seems obvious they will probably be on board. This won't be official, but more that they can give responses and feedback about the council and such--pseudo ambassadors if you will.



The Volus, Hanar/Drell, Elcor, Batarians, Vorcha may also play a role as they are non-council. What better way to drum up a spot on the council or alliance acceptance and diplomacy than to help with the Reaper threat?



I can see no logical reason, except for LI stuff, for any NPCs to come back except as cameos unless they are needed for plot devices. Thane could play into a Hanar/Drell plot, Samara/Morinth could play into an Asari plot, Grunt/Wrex for a Krogan plot, Mordin for a Salarian plot, Legion/Tali for a Quarian/Geth plot point, Garrus for a Turian plot, etc etc. Who survived could be the difference in needing a new squadie or using a possible survivor, but that seems overly complicated. So I assume we'll get new characters because so many could possibly die on the SM.



Honestly this all depends on Bioware's Canon story though...how they design the new default Shephard.



Well, after that rant I think we'll have a bare minumum of these characters in our squad...



Liara

VS human

Jacob or Miranda ( which one depending on varying factors)

Grunt (on the fence with this one even)

That's all really. Granted maybe Garrus or Tali will return, and maybe Jack and Thane, but I see them more as cameos.



After that I can only assume most characters will be totally new or only now playable (such as Aria/Feron/Kal/etc).



I can see survivor Garrus and Tali making cameos, but I can't see Bioware devoting so much time to the VA unless it is as a plot centric cameo (recruiting or LI thing)...much as Wrex did if he survived.



So I'm thinking only 3 or 4 NPCs will return as full-squaddies.

[Zulu_DFA]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Must be a hassle for you to login to one account and then back into another huh?

-Polite

You say what?

Not you, smud/zulu.

-Polite

You see, PoliteAssassin, if you were capable of taking a little bit more intelligent approach towards your delusional trolling, you'd refrain from making such hilariously naive statements as "Must be a hassle for you to login to one account and then back into another". Because today's software allows to post in this forum from indefinite number of accounts from one computer with just one second gap between posts. This software is called MicroSoft Windows.

Then, if I were you, I'd invent something more spicy than "smud/zulu". Something like "zulu_boy"...

But you seem to be a little thicker than that.

You also are clearly incapable of keeping a promise. You said you sent a PM to a dev and would announce the result. Granted, it's not actually necessary for the resolution of that particular sub-discussion, since you have so obviously been proven wrong, that it wouldn't even be a shame to admit it. But your vanity is great enough to prevent you from doing so.

And, before I'm done with you, here's how people like you were dealt with roughly 200 years ago in real life:

[Pacifien]

Do not post personal attacks on your fellow forumites. This thread is to discuss the squad composition for ME3 - get back on-topic.

[Jaron Oberyn]

stysiaq wrote...

Well, the theory and practice can differ. I wish that the whole ME trilogy would have replay value of a scale never seen before. If we are really going to get ME3 where all the big choices from previous games will have a great impact on the gameplay, I'll be in gaming heaven. But still, I prefer to keep my expectations not too high; Being able to, fo example, pick 3 alive squadmates from your ME2 save and command them, would be just awesome. Still, its wishful thinking. Putting each squadmate from ME2 in ME3 costs money. And when you can end ME2 with just two of 12 squadmates alive, you will need new npcs. They cost money. They cost time. And both time and money, are limited.

And, just for the record, the result of suicide mission IS one  of big choices. You decide, which loyalty quests you will complete, you can decide who is going to die (if you really want to kill somebody), the fate of the crew is in your hands.

Actually, what would cost more money and time would be to create new assets for a whole new team. Meaning 3d modeling, material compiling, texture creation, animation, getting new voice talent, etc... When they already have the assets on hand and can focus more on story. This is pretty much obvious especially given the statement that they're not going to reinvent the action rpg gameplay. They have a huge amount of resources that were created for the first and second games. They don't have to start from scratch on the third one. If you notice, the Mass 1 characters in the third game all had the same models. Some however had new materials. Liara's face, Ashley/Kaidan's armor, etc... but still used the Mass 1 meshes. Sop it would be more efficient for them to keep the same team, instead of creating a whole new one, giving us new loyalty missions, recruitment missions, etc... It would be a repeat of the second game. It would render Mass 2 useless.

-Polite

[stysiaq]

Ok. So lets imagine, that I import a character with two survivors from ME2. Also, it was a default Shepherd, so Wrex is dead. All I got is:

- 2 ME2 survivors
- VS and Liara

That makes 4 (just possible!) squadmates. Means that we need at very least 4 new ones if the game still wishes to provide variety of squad choices.

Nevertheless, you've got a point. Too much new cast would be a con, cause I dont imagine a new folk without his own backstory/quest. And that would be repeating ME2 formula.

With all the respect, Zulu, don't insult fellow game fans.

Modifié par stysiaq, 06 septembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[smudboy]

stysiaq wrote...

Ok. So lets imagine, that I import a character with two survivors from ME2. Also, it was a default Shepherd, so Wrex is dead. All I got is:

- 2 ME2 survivors
- VS and Liara

That makes 4 (just possible!) squadmates. Means that we need at very least 4 new ones if the game still wishes to provide variety of squad choices.

Nevertheless, you've got a point. Too much new cast would be a con, cause I dont imagine a new folk without his own backstory/quest. And that would be repeating ME2 formula.

With all the respect, Zulu, don't insult fellow game fans.

I would ask no one insults anyone's opinion, and instead, actually quote and provide reasonable argument.  Then once sufficient argument and evidence (and objective observations of evidence) have been provided, the merry jokings and snide insinuations can commence: because really, if one cannot see or hear something, they're blind or deaf.

Too much new cast would be another wasted opportunity, or waste of resources.  The argument that it would cost more to make new squadmates is obvious: it costs money to make a new game anyway.  Since you believe that there are 2 ME2 survivors, you believe them to be simply functional squadmates: which is completely believable, but reduces the rest to that: what applies to the two must be applied to all, including the DLC characters (i.e. the system must take into account all optional content/choices made, if we are to conclude said content will be tracked on import.)

It's very possible the same way squad mission choice provides a number of non-interactive dialog options from those squads, the same result can be in any of the potential, functional squadmates.  The question is, how many new characters will there be, knowing that they can be plot relevant, and how would the two ME2 placeholder squadmates be relevant at all?

[Mr. Man]

I think since it's the final installment, things would focus on wrapping up the story in an epic fashion. I don't think adding an all new squad would fit this criteria. Maybe 3 more squad-mates (Aria should def be one of them) and survivors (except DLC, and Thane- he's dying). Plus Ashley/ Kaidan, if you destroy the base. Liara I think would be an important Cameo plus maybe the shadow broker, thus I don't think she'd be a squadmate.

[Hobosapien]

If your Shepard is the type that would not bring Garrus, kill Wrex, sell legion, leave Grunt in the tank, then I hope that in ME3 your Shepard has to do without. On the plus side if your Shepard keeps the collector base perhaps a benefit will come your way. Same goes for the suicide mission, kill your squad, make do with less options in ME3. I think we will see a few new squad options, say 3, that will help fill gaps and progress the story.

My guess is ME3 hinges on dark matter/energy, EDI, and longer squad based missions.

[Harley_Dude]

Apparently dialog for Tali and Legion has been unlocked by PC hacks that show the game originally allowed you to recruit the squad in any order. For some reason Bioware reversed course and forced you to recruit in two groups. My guess is they were finding issues with managing all the dialog resources and making it fit on the 2 discs for the 360. If that was the case it would be difficult to fit 12 characters onto 2 discs for the entire game unless they go with the "calibrations" type of interaction. Cameos would be easy as they only occur once within the context of the quest at hand.

[xlavaina]

Yes cameos would be easy, but I sincerely hope the surviving squad aren't reduced to cameos... I would be very sad.

[Harley_Dude]

Someone mentioned using them for a specfic quest if they were still alive and some other placeholder if not. I like that idea since it uses them in a capacity similar to the loyalty mission and it would be much better than just "Yes we slept together but your with Cerberus now".

[Leon Shepard]

Squad Comp. In ME 3:

So by the end you can have anywhere from 2 to 12 members. Quite the gap there. I imagine that if Bioware wanted to make that suicide mission count who and how many died would be big factors starting with 2 or 3 rather than 10 or 12 would put the player at a SEVERE disadvantage early on and possibly throughout ME 3. It would really suck but should you have really let that many squadmates die?

As for individual squad importance going from ME2 into 3, I don't think that Bioware would give characters the possibility of death if there wasn't some reason to keep then alive. In other words, I like to think that all of them have purpose. Bioware has said that they planned Mass Effect as a trilogy, so they wouldn't bother giving players an option or choice that wouldn't matter later.

With all that being said, it really sucks to be a writer for ME 3 at the moment.

[Mr. Man]

The Harley Dude wrote...

Apparently dialog for Tali and Legion has been unlocked by PC hacks that show the game originally allowed you to recruit the squad in any order. For some reason Bioware reversed course and forced you to recruit in two groups. My guess is they were finding issues with managing all the dialog resources and making it fit on the 2 discs for the 360. If that was the case it would be difficult to fit 12 characters onto 2 discs for the entire game unless they go with the "calibrations" type of interaction. Cameos would be easy as they only occur once within the context of the quest at hand.

If Bioware focused on what was easy instead of what was awesome, then Mass Effect would have never come this far to begin with.