The Harley Dude wrote...
It would be highly unusual to not get some new squad members. I cannot be the only person that wants to send Samara out the airlock and get the Matriach bartender. Or how about Keeper 20?
xlavaina wrote...
smudboy wrote...
You've yet to reply to my post. What invalid points?
I have made an incredibly long list of points outlining my evidence. Just look through the last ten or so pages of the thread. Also, PoliteAsassin has made many more points than I. These are also in the thread.
xlavaina wrote...
Moondoggie wrote...
I hope that Bioware won't take the cheap option and just kill half of them to write them out of it. Spending 3/4 of ME 3 doing recruitment missions again will be a huge let down. The ending of ME2 suggests the surviving members of the crew stayed on to fight the reapers so if it continues where we left off they'd only be able to write them out in a cheap and silly fashion. At least in ME 2 the write out of old squad mates was believeable in the story and i doubt they plan to kill Shepard and destroy the Normandy again.
This is a huge piece of supporting evidence towards the idea that the ME2 squad = ME3 squad. I cannot envision Bioware making ME3 90% recruitment and 10% fighting the Reapers. That would make it an incredibly crappy game.
xlavaina wrote...
This is a huge piece of supporting evidence towards the idea that the ME2 squad = ME3 squad. I cannot envision Bioware making ME3 90% recruitment and 10% fighting the Reapers. That would make it an incredibly crappy game.
Merlin 47 wrote...
xlavaina wrote...
smudboy wrote...
You've yet to reply to my post. What invalid points?
I have made an incredibly long list of points outlining my evidence. Just look through the last ten or so pages of the thread. Also, PoliteAsassin has made many more points than I. These are also in the thread.
Don't waste your time. He'll just keep going round and round with you and Polite, despite how much clear evidence you can pile up.
Anyway...back on topic....xlavaina wrote...
Moondoggie wrote...
I hope that Bioware won't take the cheap option and just kill half of them to write them out of it. Spending 3/4 of ME 3 doing recruitment missions again will be a huge let down. The ending of ME2 suggests the surviving members of the crew stayed on to fight the reapers so if it continues where we left off they'd only be able to write them out in a cheap and silly fashion. At least in ME 2 the write out of old squad mates was believeable in the story and i doubt they plan to kill Shepard and destroy the Normandy again.
This is a huge piece of supporting evidence towards the idea that the ME2 squad = ME3 squad. I cannot envision Bioware making ME3 90% recruitment and 10% fighting the Reapers. That would make it an incredibly crappy game.
Yeah....I've been hoping for the highlited part, actually. Sure....maybe give us back Liara. That'd be okay. But aside from that, just give us the ME 2 squad back in ME 3. If people had died in the Suicide mission, that's one thing. But....if you were able to keep everyone alive (like I did) then let us have them all back.
I agree with both you and Polite, xlavania. If ME 3 is 90% recuritment and 10% fighting....then really what was the whole point of ME 2? Why go through all those loyalty missions, just to have your entire crew just up and leave?
Link?xlavaina wrote...
I have made an incredibly long list of points outlining my evidence. Just look through the last ten or so pages of the thread. Also, PoliteAsassin has made many more points than I. These are also in the thread.
Rambie wrote...
Interesting thoughts. I too would like to see some ME1/ME2 squad mates return for ME3. Since you can only have two mates with you at a time, I had a hard time using all my possible squad mates over the course of ME2. I took them all out at least once (other than the loyalty mission) but used Grunt, Garrus, and Tali the most on my Vanguard build.
Moondoggie wrote...
The Harley Dude wrote...
It would be highly unusual to not get some new squad members. I cannot be the only person that wants to send Samara out the airlock and get the Matriach bartender. Or how about Keeper 20?
Why do we need new ones? We barely had a chance to get to know the current ones since we spent most of the game recruiting them.
I just feel like if we just get new squad members keeping the whole group alive will feel worthless.
glacier1701 wrote...
Part of the discussion by myself, Smud and others is that there was no point to ME2 anyways. We end the game at the same point as we do in ME1 and have not noticably done anything to combat the Reapers. Indeed ME2 included material that really invalidated much of what we did in ME1. What was the point of being a Spectre? What was the point of helping the Alliance in all those missions? If anything Shepard was pushed back a few steps. LotSB cuts all that out and in a way we could have had that instead of ME2 because EVERYTHING we got from doing all that stuff up to the SM the Shadow Broker already had in his files!!!! And more importantly we even find out that the SB was sending in probes through the Omega-4 relay which no-one else seems to have done. In fact we are even told that SB salvage teams have made it back with remains of some of those probes. I suspect that these get through because of Shepard and the IFF but it does mean that we have everything we need and more for less than we had to do in ME2. That, in my opinion, means that even BioWare is acknowledging that they did not do as good a job as they should have done in advancing the Reaper plot.
Modifié par smudboy, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:38 .
smudboy wrote...
glacier1701 wrote...
Part of the discussion by myself, Smud and others is that there was no point to ME2 anyways. We end the game at the same point as we do in ME1 and have not noticably done anything to combat the Reapers. Indeed ME2 included material that really invalidated much of what we did in ME1. What was the point of being a Spectre? What was the point of helping the Alliance in all those missions? If anything Shepard was pushed back a few steps. LotSB cuts all that out and in a way we could have had that instead of ME2 because EVERYTHING we got from doing all that stuff up to the SM the Shadow Broker already had in his files!!!! And more importantly we even find out that the SB was sending in probes through the Omega-4 relay which no-one else seems to have done. In fact we are even told that SB salvage teams have made it back with remains of some of those probes. I suspect that these get through because of Shepard and the IFF but it does mean that we have everything we need and more for less than we had to do in ME2. That, in my opinion, means that even BioWare is acknowledging that they did not do as good a job as they should have done in advancing the Reaper plot.
I was a bit shocked (today) as the drone told me that the Omega-4 relay probes had returned! Here we have the SB, 20x smarter than TIMmy, patiently sending out surveilance probes to "learn" about the ad hoc Reaper threat. Instead, we Pokémon people.
Honestly, if ME2 started with Shepard "waking up" from his "coma", busting out of Cerberus, and immediately going on LOTSB (and every subsequent mission was geared toward/like that), ME2 would've been phenomenal.
-Shepard backtracks as he learns about what happened these past two years, picking up friends, squadmates, choosing sides and burning bridges along the way.
-Shepard ends up investigating Prothean dig sites and relics to find out more about the Prothean's plans and the Reaper threat.
-All the while learning about himself, the universe, what it means to shoulder the burders of it, all in the final confrontation with Cerberus (who's been chasing HIM/HER this entire time), on the Derelict Reaper for some such Reaper tech/Klendagon anti-Reaper gun.
-Oh, and the sub plot with the Collectors as Shepard's visions tell of a horrific tale of struggle, slavery and mental and physical servitude to the Collector General's transmitted signals over 50k year old preserved mind.
smudboy wrote...
Link?xlavaina wrote...
I have made an incredibly long list of points outlining my evidence. Just look through the last ten or so pages of the thread. Also, PoliteAsassin has made many more points than I. These are also in the thread.
Modifié par xlavaina, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:10 .
I agree on the passage of time thing, her mindset could change after meeting Miri. As of the encounter though I think her training is in colony development of something.Moiaussi wrote...
Hobosapien wrote...
Identical genetics, but not same skill set. Nothing suggests her sister is combat ready.
She could be trained. For all we know she already is... we don't know anything about her. Also depends on how much time has passed.
Maybe I've had too much to drink, but for the first time smud makes a little sense. I'll reread tomorrow, just to make sure.smudboy wrote...
glacier1701 wrote...
Part of the discussion by myself, Smud and others is that there was no point to ME2 anyways. We end the game at the same point as we do in ME1 and have not noticably done anything to combat the Reapers. Indeed ME2 included material that really invalidated much of what we did in ME1. What was the point of being a Spectre? What was the point of helping the Alliance in all those missions? If anything Shepard was pushed back a few steps. LotSB cuts all that out and in a way we could have had that instead of ME2 because EVERYTHING we got from doing all that stuff up to the SM the Shadow Broker already had in his files!!!! And more importantly we even find out that the SB was sending in probes through the Omega-4 relay which no-one else seems to have done. In fact we are even told that SB salvage teams have made it back with remains of some of those probes. I suspect that these get through because of Shepard and the IFF but it does mean that we have everything we need and more for less than we had to do in ME2. That, in my opinion, means that even BioWare is acknowledging that they did not do as good a job as they should have done in advancing the Reaper plot.
I was a bit shocked (today) as the drone told me that the Omega-4 relay probes had returned! Here we have the SB, 20x smarter than TIMmy, patiently sending out surveilance probes to "learn" about the ad hoc Reaper threat. Instead, we Pokémon people.
Honestly, if ME2 started with Shepard "waking up" from his "coma", busting out of Cerberus, and immediately going on LOTSB (and every subsequent mission was geared toward/like that), ME2 would've been phenomenal.
-Shepard backtracks as he learns about what happened these past two years, picking up friends, squadmates, choosing sides and burning bridges along the way.
-Shepard ends up investigating Prothean dig sites and relics to find out more about the Prothean's plans and the Reaper threat.
-All the while learning about himself, the universe, what it means to shoulder the burders of it, all in the final confrontation with Cerberus (who's been chasing HIM/HER this entire time), on the Derelict Reaper for some such Reaper tech/Klendagon anti-Reaper gun.
-Oh, and the sub plot with the Collectors as Shepard's visions tell of a horrific tale of struggle, slavery and mental and physical servitude to the Collector General's transmitted signals over 50k year old preserved mind. Some telling Shepard to destroy the Prothean relics and tricking Shepard to think they're tools of the Reapers, all the while the General is being manipulated to control Shepard to destroy the last remnants of the Protheans: and the only means of giving the current galaxy a chance against the Reapers (which leads up to some rather obvious/dangerous situations in the sequel.)
xlavaina wrote...
By the way, I would like to qualify "evidence", there is no "evidence" either way, all we can do is speculate based on the obvious assumptions we make based on our knowledge of the squad, the game and the developer. Assuming this is what we both mean mean by "evidence" we have plenty of it.
wulf3n wrote...
xlavaina wrote...
By the way, I would like to qualify "evidence", there is no "evidence" either way, all we can do is speculate based on the obvious assumptions we make based on our knowledge of the squad, the game and the developer. Assuming this is what we both mean mean by "evidence" we have plenty of it.
The closest we get to evidence is, what Bioware have said, and what Bioware have done.
"This is a huge piece of supporting evidence towards the idea that the ME2 squad = ME3 squad. I cannot envision Bioware making ME3 90% recruitment and 10% fighting the Reapers. That would make it an incredibly crappy game."
I haven't seen any precedent, that supports this statement. This is basically your opinion on bioware and your opinion on what defines a good game, defining what you excpect ME3 to be.
Don't take this as a personal attack, many of your posts are based on factual information, this one just rubs me the wrong way.
Modifié par xlavaina, 11 septembre 2010 - 12:57 .
xlavaina wrote...
wulf3n wrote...
xlavaina wrote...
By the way, I would like to qualify "evidence", there is no "evidence" either way, all we can do is speculate based on the obvious assumptions we make based on our knowledge of the squad, the game and the developer. Assuming this is what we both mean mean by "evidence" we have plenty of it.
The closest we get to evidence is, what Bioware have said, and what Bioware have done.
"This is a huge piece of supporting evidence towards the idea that the ME2 squad = ME3 squad. I cannot envision Bioware making ME3 90% recruitment and 10% fighting the Reapers. That would make it an incredibly crappy game."
I haven't seen any precedent, that supports this statement. This is basically your opinion on bioware and your opinion on what defines a good game, defining what you excpect ME3 to be.
Don't take this as a personal attack, many of your posts are based on factual information, this one just rubs me the wrong way.
Fair enough. I am extremely respectful of those who present their opinions in a reasonable way without showing signs of hostility. In any case, you're right, this is my opinion. Unfortunately, until Bioware gives us some information, all anyone is going to really be able to do is state their opinion. Additionally, there is no direct evidence stating the squad will make it into the next game, nor is there any evidence stating they won't be there. All we can do is make logical guesses based on character personalities and possible outcomes of ME2.
Don't worry I'm not taking what you said as a personal attack, I just try and be as optimistic as possible.
Modifié par smudboy, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:02 .
xlavaina wrote...
smudboy wrote...
Link?xlavaina wrote...
I have made an incredibly long list of points outlining my evidence. Just look through the last ten or so pages of the thread. Also, PoliteAsassin has made many more points than I. These are also in the thread.
I'm not combing through the entire thread to find the evidence that both me and Polite have provided. Mine starts around the eighties, Polite's goes back to pretty much the beginning I think.
By the way, I would like to qualify "evidence", there is no "evidence" either way, all we can do is speculate based on the obvious assumptions we make based on our knowledge of the squad, the game and the developer. Assuming this is what we both mean mean by "evidence" we have plenty of it.
PoliteAssasin wrote...
Don't waste your time with him. He just repeats. He's seen the evidence, but chooses not to respond to it because it is conclusive. Just let it go. He isn't worth the argument. He's not even really debating. Can't engage a person like that.
-Polite
Terraneaux wrote...
PoliteAssasin wrote...
Don't waste your time with him. He just repeats. He's seen the evidence, but chooses not to respond to it because it is conclusive. Just let it go. He isn't worth the argument. He's not even really debating. Can't engage a person like that.
-Polite
I like how people freak out on Smudboy because he's one of the few people not in denial about the angst a lot of you feel about having dropped money on a game and have it not be be perfect.
SmokePants wrote...
Let's reaffirm the topic of this thread -- whether squadmates will return as squadmates in ME3 or not. Nothing Casey Hudson has ever said proves a damn thing or settles this debate in any way. It's a pathetic lack of reasoning skills that would lead anyone to think otherwise.
Earlier, I posted a pre-ME2 quote from Hudson in which he gave an example of a "big" consequence. It turned out that it was just some graphics and PA announcements on the citadel that were different depending on whether you saved the council in ME1.
Now that he's discussing ME3, he's talking in vagueries about consequences and divergent outcomes, but he is not explaining what he means. You people are jumping to the most grandiose, incomprehensively unlikely conclusions, when it might be something as simple as a billboard being different.
Further, I find the "squadmates back as squadmates" camp's reaction -- or lack of reaction -- to the Shadow Broker DLC to be incredibly funny. Liara returning as a squadmate in ME3 was your POSTER ARGUMENT and now that looks extremely unlikely to happen.
It must be nice to live in such denial that you can force contradictory pieces of new information into your continuously mutating arguments, as if they fit with your theory all along.
But the reality of the matter is, I can take a pencil and cross off Liara, while you can't put a check mark next to any previous squadmate's name on the roster. The score stands at Good guys - 1. Delusionists - 0.
Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 septembre 2010 - 04:08 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
Some squadmates will return, others will have a reason to leave and I strongly believe we'll have a few new ones. Not a new dozen, just a few plot relevant characters.
That is my conclusion
forestsavage wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Some squadmates will return, others will have a reason to leave and I strongly believe we'll have a few new ones. Not a new dozen, just a few plot relevant characters.
That is my conclusion
Yes the suicide part of Mass Effect 2 makes that the only possible solution, see my post from last night:
http://social.biowar...2255/91#4755333
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