34 réponses à ce sujet

[Dregor Thule]

Just finished the game, feeling a bit guilty about some of the outcomes, but I still think it's probably fairly close to what Bioware envisioned to be the "true" ending of the game.  Backed Anora, Alistaire left, and got Morrigan pregnant.  Felt really bad reading the bit at the end about how Alistaire was seen drunk years later, muttering about being a Warden and a prince.

I'm sure the folks at Bioware must have had an ending they view the most as canon.  Have they said anything about which it is?  Also, is there a way to get Alistaire and Anora to marry?  It would obviously involve killing Loghain, but that in my mind would be the smartest option for the country.

It also seems to me that the Morrigan pregnancy would be something they'd view as how it "should be".  It's just ripe with lots of story potential, and as storytellers they should want to pursue that line of thought.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Eh, there is no "true ending" and that's kind of the point of the entire game, I think. It all depends on what you choose and the repercussions. I doubt Bioware collectively has an ending they think is "right" or "canon".

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Eh, I doubt they have one.



Unlike Kotor/Mass Effect there's significantly more outcomes and while you're right the Morrigan pregnancy is very very interesting I kind of like the idea of your warden dying to slay the arch demon.

[Dragonsword18]

there is few endings and all are right

[Marik333]

Yes, you can get them to marry. It's quite funny, and potentially turns out well for everybody involved.

[S0ndor]

Dunno about a supposed canon ending, but I think Morrigan's pregnancy can definitely be viewed as canon. For me that twist was the only redeeming factor of the game's ending, which I found to be quite disappointing.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I don't think Morrigan's pregnancy is "canon" in any way, especially from the perspective of a female Warden. Just because it's a cool plot idea doesn't mean it has to be canon. It makes little sense with a female Warden, and Alistair is just way too easily convinced.

[Dragonsword18]

i think there will be some add-s on to morrigan pregnency some new map or somthing



if it dosent so why is the options " i will look for her now" when u talk last time to Alister: D

[KnightofPhoenix]

If dragon age will indeed be a trilogy, as some have suggested, then not having a canon story might be problematic. Unless bioware is planing on making a very huge game, which would be great.

[S0ndor]

Ok let me rephrase: I think Morrigan's pregnancy is by far the most interesting thing in this entire game.



I mean, you have a child who is basically a god and now you are desperately trying to find Morrigan.



I was really expecting some unique info about Darkspawn or the Old Gods, perhaps even a conversation with the Archdemon or an intelligent Hurlock. Alas, twas not meant to be.

[KnightofPhoenix]

S0ndor wrote...
I was really expecting some unique info about Darkspawn or the Old Gods, perhaps even a conversation with the Archdemon or an intelligent Hurlock. Alas, twas not meant to be.

Sovereign style eh?
Yea, I always prefer antagonists with some story behind them. Soemthing to make you think. the darkspawn are simply mindless. But still, it would perhaps add an unnecessary layer of complexcity to an already com;icated world, at least for an introduction. Perhaps a sequel would shed more light on the darkspawn. In fact in the epilogue, it says that the darkspawn's are not yet over and that they are now ruled by warlords that fight even each other.

And yes, the Morrigan pregnancy thing is the most interesting thing. Either you end up having a God of a son who will inherit your throne. Or a God of a son who will make your life hell.

[S0ndor]

Ye a Sovereign style boss would have been much better. He was definitely my favourite antagonist of all time. Especially his gloating.



"Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance."



Ah good times.

[Dregor Thule]

Ok, something I don't think several of you are getting.



Bioware wants to make this a long-lasting IP, with more video games, books, tabletop RPGs, etc. To do this they have to tell stories, and they have to keep a canonical narrative. They can't really sit on the fence about what officially did and didn't happen, unless they never want to re-visit Fereldan again post DA:O, which is of course an absurd notion. So really, they need to have a "true" ending.

[Tantalus010]

I got Alistair and Anora to marry. Took me three times, though. I originally thought it'd be best if Alistair was going to be king that he fight his own battles. I didn't think what he'd automatically do afterwards, even though it had to be done (by me, instead) to get them to marry. And yeah, their blurb in the ending was good for a soft chuckle.

I also agree with the others who say there isn't a canon ending. Not everything needs to be canon. Although I will say I took the heroic ending, sacrificing myself to save the world. I almost cried at my funeral .   I was quite pleased with it, overall.

Modifié par Tantalus010, 10 novembre 2009 - 04:16 .

[Curry Noodles]

However they handle mass effect 2 is probably going to be a big clue as to how they handle the second dragon age. Looks like, basically, a setting that's far away or in a different time period.

[krol146]

Dregor Thule wrote...

 So really, they need to have a "true" ending.

No they dont. Mass Effect doesnt have a canonical story, and theres already a game, 2 books, a comic book on the way, and a sequel. And theres also many other ways around it.

[Krenmu]

Essentially your choices in the end boil all the way down to a few things..who is left alive..who is on the throne..Thats it. The other choices can be deemed necessary and have no lasting impact if it in required...Those two facts aren't hard to plan for.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Dregor Thule wrote...

Ok, something I don't think several of you are getting.

Bioware wants to make this a long-lasting IP, with more video games, books, tabletop RPGs, etc. To do this they have to tell stories, and they have to keep a canonical narrative. They can't really sit on the fence about what officially did and didn't happen, unless they never want to re-visit Fereldan again post DA:O, which is of course an absurd notion. So really, they need to have a "true" ending.

Unless say they do something similar to what they did in Mass Effect and draw upon your decisions which would change the initial story of any sequels.  Much like Kotor 2 handled Revan even.

I doubt we'll see a "Dragon Age TWO" anytime soon, I'm expecting DLC/expansions that add new campaigns much like NWN2 did it.

[Reiella]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Eh, there is no "true ending" and that's kind of the point of the entire game, I think. It all depends on what you choose and the repercussions. I doubt Bioware collectively has an ending they think is "right" or "canon".

There will be a canon ending if they do have a sequel.

[Toom316]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Dregor Thule wrote...

Ok, something I don't think several of you are getting.

Bioware wants to make this a long-lasting IP, with more video games, books, tabletop RPGs, etc. To do this they have to tell stories, and they have to keep a canonical narrative. They can't really sit on the fence about what officially did and didn't happen, unless they never want to re-visit Fereldan again post DA:O, which is of course an absurd notion. So really, they need to have a "true" ending.

Unless say they do something similar to what they did in Mass Effect and draw upon your decisions which would change the initial story of any sequels.  Much like Kotor 2 handled Revan even.

I doubt we'll see a "Dragon Age TWO" anytime soon, I'm expecting DLC/expansions that add new campaigns much like NWN2 did it.

I agree with you that I doubt we will see a Dragon Age 2 anytime soon.  But I think a lot of people mean expansions to the game. Cause they have already stated they have 2 years worth of DLC / Content in the pipeline for the game so far. And judging by the initial sales and buzz of the game. Theres going to be a lot more to come.

There is a huge game world for them to play in. And expansions in the future do not have to continue on with your character intact. Heck they could pickup say 25 years from the games ending and have your character be the child of Morrigan (Cause rather you gave her a child as the ending or she found someone else / another way) it would still make for a great pickup point for an expansion. Or you could be fighting her child in a future expansion. 0.0

I imagine we are going to see the game build up a lot of content. Expansions that explore the frozen northern regions where I am sure another Archdemon will rise up from the ground (All Archdemons are are gods that are stuck underground waiting for something / someone / darkspawn to come set it free. 

How wicked would it be to play a Archdemon human born of Morrigan trying to unite the darkspawn to mount an attack? Lots of open options to continue on from.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Reiella wrote...
There will be a canon ending if they do have a sequel.

That's not necessarily true.

[Reiella]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Reiella wrote...
There will be a canon ending if they do have a sequel.

That's not necessarily true.

Not many ways to do it, and even fewer that are satisfying.

TES method and break the Dragon, works to an extent, but it is also fairly tired and a bit of a cop-out.

Similarly, diminishing all the divergent choices that happened in previous entries to being trivial is also troubling.  For instance, Morrigan's plan is kind of a major world-effect.  Which can't quite be removed from consideration.

And I do expect a sequel of some sort, Dragon Age was intended to be Bioware's big fantasy IP after all.  And it does appear to have recieved better traction than Mass Effect so far.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

There are other ways to continue a story in a setting this large than to directly tell what happened to the specific characters of the first game.



Even the epilogue blurbs show this. Quite some time passes after the Blight is stopped in this game alone, not to mention how much time might pass between this game and its sequel.



I think people are just way too stuck in their beliefs that a sequel should directly pick up from where the first left off, and feature all the same characters. That's evident to me with all the complaining about Mass Effect 2 not letting you have your same crew as Mass Effect 1. A sequel can be told in so many ways without forcing a canon. In fact, ina Bioware game like this where choice and storyline is the main focus, establishing a canon does little but cheapen the first game entirely, drawing you out of the world and penalizing the player for doing nothing wrong. If they expected a sequel or saga or franchise from DAO, and if they truly needed a canon storyline, then they would have simply made a canon storyline and not let you have so many choices.

There's no need to alienate your fan base in a game like this. Establishing a canon would be the biggest cop-out imo.

[Reiella]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

There are other ways to continue a story in a setting this large than to directly tell what happened to the specific characters of the first game.

Even the epilogue blurbs show this. Quite some time passes after the Blight is stopped in this game alone, not to mention how much time might pass between this game and its sequel.

I think people are just way too stuck in their beliefs that a sequel should directly pick up from where the first left off, and feature all the same characters. That's evident to me with all the complaining about Mass Effect 2 not letting you have your same crew as Mass Effect 1. A sequel can be told in so many ways without forcing a canon. In fact, ina Bioware game like this where choice and storyline is the main focus, establishing a canon does little but cheapen the first game entirely, drawing you out of the world and penalizing the player for doing nothing wrong. If they expected a sequel or saga or franchise from DAO, and if they truly needed a canon storyline, then they would have simply made a canon storyline and not let you have so many choices.
There's no need to alienate your fan base in a game like this. Establishing a canon would be the biggest cop-out imo.

Few problems there, a Blight is still a bit of a world event, more so Morrigan's plan.  Time displacement also doesn't hold much length given there's only 70 years left in the Dragon Age .

Fun sidenote on Bioware fantasy games canon though, the Bhaalspawn was a male human.  Sure, you might have played something else, but the Bhaalspawn who held the Throne was a human male.  Not so much a disservice to the fans, since the gameplay is rather independat of canon progression.

Not answering some of the big questions and shifting focus would just reck of the dragon breaking.

Although to be honest, it sounds more like you're considering another game in the same franchise, which wouldn't necessarily be a sequel [much in the same way that Origins isn't a sequel to Journeys].

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I'm thinking of sequels like Mass Effect 2, which didn't need to establish a canon. Also, NWN, though NWN2 wasn't a Bioware game. On that note as well, the NWN expansions could be seen as sequels, and they didn't need to establish a canon.



And why does the Blight matter at all here? Yeah, it's a world-changing event, and it's exactly the same for every single person's playthrough. A Warden amasses an army, and said Warden kills the Archdemon. Is there a need to say who exactly the ground forces were other than to say that they were a diverse bunch recruited from all across Ferelden? Nope. Is there a need to say that the Warden died at the end if she/he chose to do so? Not necessarily. Do we need to know the Warden's gender, romance choice, class, origin, etc? Nope. Is there a need to have Morrigan's plan involved? There is no need, as she can be refused. Morrigan's plot could be a world-changing event, but that's up to the player. To establish a canon for any of these things would be a cop-out that directly steps on the toes of the player.



There is no explicit need to establish a canon for a sequel, whether it's a direct sequel or simply a disconnected game of the same franchise. Not every sequel has to be like God of War where the end of one links directly into the start of the next.



About the gameplay being independent of canon progression, I disagree. In an RPG, part of the gameplay is the story, and that's especially true and incredibly evident in a game like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, where the gameplay directly involves you making choices that effect the world. If the sequel comes in and tells you that these choices you made in the prior game are wrong, then you're taken out of the world's immersion and your experience and journey through the first story becomes nothing more than anecdotal "what if" alternate universe tripe. If I'm playing an RPG like this, I want the story to be cohesive. I can't even play KOTOR anymore after they established a "canon". It's not enjoyable to me to see what "could have happened but didn't." It takes the emotion and attachment out of the game, which is vital to RPG's.



If you play games like this because you like the strategy of clicking buttons in combat, then you won't agree with my point. If you play this game because it's a fun little meaningless diversion, then you may or may not agree with my point. If you play this game because you like the actual immersion into a living world, then you won't like it when someone forces that immersion away.



But I've argued canon many, many times before, and often they come out as rants. I've seen all this before, and I'll liekly see it again, so believe me when I say that I know where you're coming from, but I really don't agree with what you say. Canon issues are different for everyone depending on how and why you play these games, and a sequel does not need to step on anyone's toes in order to be good or consistent.