38 réponses à ce sujet

[JowyXXV]

I heard that Alistair becomes really evil if you harden him.  Yeah, he makes a better king but I want to know if he's really bad.  Someone said that the female noble/marriage/alistair sacrifice ending "shows" what a bastard he is.

Does anyone have any more information on if hardening him makes him a complete bastard?

[skcm]

It's true, he took my entire Juggernaut set! What a bastard.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Don't think so the worst ending for him is he becomes a drunk, and nobody believes he was once a prince or a Grey Warden. Nothing really evil in his epilogues.

[Esoj16]

He doesn't become evil, just a bit more selfish but he still chooses the morally correct path, he also gets smarter and starts to show leadership, and I don't know what ending you're talking about most of my endings with a hardened alistair are happy endings, he does get more greedy with the crown though, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[phaonica]

No, he does not become bad or evil, he just stands up for himself better.



He is technically a bastard, though.

[Sarah1281]

What? Of course not. All hardening him does is make him more confident in himself and more willing to work for his own happiness.



He is a better King when he is hardened, he feels that he should be King as Anora is too much like Loghain instead of his 'let her have the throne. PLEASE!' if unhardened, if Loghain lives he can be persuaded to stay and marry Anora if hardened, if you don't become Queen Cousland at the Landsmeet he can be persuaded to let you be his *shudder* mistress during the breakup conversation, if solo ruler he'll make Anora his heir and imply he'll execute her if that's not needed post-Blight instead of his wishy-washy 'oh, just lock her up or something.'



He's pretty much the same person as before except, again, less insecure and not so determined to put duty above everything.

[Sabariel]

I don't understand how Alistair is a better King if you harden him. Both King epilogues sounded just fine to me. He accepts being King more gracefully if he's hardened however....

Modifié par Sabariel, 08 juillet 2010 - 03:48 .

[JergenKajaton]

Hardening Alistair is necessary to get what I consider a "perfect" ending: The Warden and Alistair both live, Alistair becomes king, and Morrigan doesn't get her Antichrist baby.



(Well, I don't know for sure if Morrigan is trying to create an Antichrist baby, but I sure as hell don't trust her.)



Sure, he becomes a bit of a ****** (only a bit, though -- nowhere near pure evil), but it's a small price to pay for everything else to end happily.

[mellifera]

Yes. Nefarious, even.

[Sarah1281]

Sabariel wrote...

I don't understand how Alistair is a better King if you harden him. Both King epilogues sounded just fine to me. He accepts being King more gracefully if he's hardened however....

No matter what, Alistair is popular with the people but while unhardened Alistair constantly sneaks out of court to go meet the common folks and if you're made chancellor he depends on you so much that nothing gets done at all if you're not there, a hardened Alistair just takes your advice and quickly sets about learning the business of ruling. Hardened Alistair is a capable ruler in his own right while unhardened Alistair is afraid of failing and thinks everyone else knows better than he does so he leaves them in charge. Unhardened Alistair kind of fails at being King, imo, simply because he seems to be King in name only.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 08 juillet 2010 - 03:51 .

[JowyXXV]

Hmm.... I'm still curious about the infamous Cousland/Romance/US ending quotes from him.



Well, does hardened Alistair accept evil actions more readily with less approval drop?

[adneate]

Yes in fact he'll be an unstoppable killing machine, he'll want to kill the elves and side with the werewolves and if you make him king he orders Anora, Arl Eamon and most of the nobles in the Landsmeet killed. Then when you find out about the ultimate sacrifice he'll look right at the warden and says "You do it I'm gonna be king you're just a filthy peasant and or Elf." When you suggest the dark ritual to him he jumps at the chance and swaggers into the room with Morrigan to force himself on her and she's all like "No Alistair not like this, not like this!" Then at the end he takes all the credit and tells everyone he banged a witch and had a demon baby and there "Ain't nothing all y'all can do about it, I'm King Alistair baby and it's good to be the chief!"

Needless to say it's a less than ideal ending! Plus he tried to steal Leliana from my Warden and killed Zevran in his sleep!

[Dave of Canada]

adneate wrote...

Yes in fact he'll be an unstoppable killing machine, he'll want to kill the elves and side with the werewolves and if you make him king he orders Anora, Arl Eamon and most of the nobles in the Landsmeet killed. Then when you find out about the ultimate sacrifice he'll look right at the warden and says "You do it I'm gonna be king you're just a filthy peasant and or Elf." When you suggest the dark ritual to him he jumps at the chance and swaggers into the room with Morrigan to force himself on her and she's all like "No Alistair not like this, not like this!" Then at the end he takes all the credit and tells everyone he banged a witch and had a demon baby and there "Ain't nothing all y'all can do about it, I'm King Alistair baby and it's good to be the chief!"

Needless to say it's a less than ideal ending! Plus he tried to steal Leliana from my Warden and killed Zevran in his sleep!

Odd, in my ending he left Leliana to become a Broodmother.

[adneate]

I thought only women could become broodmothers.

Unless Yes it all makes sense now.

[Dave of Canada]

adneate wrote...

I thought only women could become broodmothers.

Unless Yes it all makes sense now.

He's just that evil.

[errant_knight]

phaonica wrote...

No, he does not become bad or evil, he just stands up for himself better.

He is technically a bastard, though.

Lol!! Yes, Alistair will always be a bastard. That being said, he's just as nice a guy when hardened. He has more confidence that he's capable of being king, and would be a better choice than Anora. He's willing to stand up for himself. The only dubious thing that he can be persuaded of only when hardened is keeping a relationship with a non-human going when he knows that he won't be able to marry them, and he has to be convinced that the PC is okay with that.

[errant_knight]

JowyXXV wrote...
Well, does hardened Alistair accept evil actions more readily with less approval drop?

No. He doesn't.

JowyXXV wrote...
Hmm.... I'm still curious about the infamous Cousland/Romance/US ending quotes from him.

Um...what? He refuses to let you sacrifice yourself, and when you bring up the fact that he's king, says that He wants to be a good king, and this is the best thing he could possibly do (paraphrase). What are you talking about here?

Modifié par errant_knight, 08 juillet 2010 - 06:31 .

[Xandurpein]

errant_knight wrote...

phaonica wrote...

No, he does not become bad or evil, he just stands up for himself better.

He is technically a bastard, though.

Lol!! Yes, Alistair will always be a bastard. That being said, he's just as nice a guy when hardened. He has more confidence that he's capable of being king, and would be a better choice than Anora. He's willing to stand up for himself. The only dubious thing that he can be persuaded of only when hardened is keeping a relationship with a non-human going when he knows that he won't be able to marry them, and he has to be convinced that the PC is okay with that.

I think that he becomes less trusting of other people. The heart of his whole personal quest is that he expects Goldanna to be nice because she is family and he just assumes that this means she should be good to him then.

I'm not convinced that "hardening" Alistiar makes him a better person. It certainly makes him a better, more capable king, and it makes his actions at the Landsmeet more closely match the typical "strong male" behaviour that Alistair have been accused of lacking, but to me that is not the same as being a better human being.

In some ways unhardened Alistair is a better person to me. He has an idealism that I find deeply sympathetic, even if he will now and then will be let down by the harsh realities of the world and he is too trusting to be a good King.

An trusting idealist that won't compromise with his beliefs, but sometiems is a little out of touch with the real world, or a more realistic man who is more able to look after himself. Take your pick, I don't think either of them is a lesser man.

[CalJones]

Heh, well, he isn't such a "nice guy" if you show mercy towards Loghain. A hardened Alistair will still become king (if he and Anora get engaged) but he is very bitter towards the Warden, and I find his desire for revenge over mercy to be not such a nice quality. (However, the Alistair and Anora pairing do get a good epilogue and seems to be one of the better outcomes for Fereldan).

[errant_knight]

I would disagree that Alistair is less idealistic when hardened. He sacrifices himelf for his country and for love, if necessary. I wouldn't call him untrusting, either. He still expects people to behave with honor. He just realized that you can't trust blindly and count on it ending well.

[soignee]

skcm wrote...

It's true, he took my entire Juggernaut set! What a bastard.

oh god, I lol'd and sporfled my tea everywhere. NINJA SKCM ATTACK

[nos_astra]

CalJones wrote...
Heh, well, he isn't such a "nice guy" if you show mercy towards Loghain. A hardened Alistair will still become king (if he and Anora get engaged) but he is very bitter towards the Warden, and I find his desire for revenge over mercy to be not such a nice quality. (However, the Alistair and Anora pairing do get a good epilogue and seems to be one of the better outcomes for Fereldan).

Oh, he believes in justice, not necessarily mercy. He was a templar, he was trained to kill people who broke the rules without asking if they were apostates or blood mages.

Woohever said Alistair was entirely nice and harmless? He can be quite dangerous (or stupid) when acting on emotions.

The hardened version is only willing to extract advantages out of some situations.

Modifié par klarabella, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:46 .

[Jestina]

You just harden him so you don't get a disapproval for doing questionable actions. Same with Leli...plus she'll join the um...revelry at the Pearl if you harden her. I don't think Alistair revels much either way. Too bad there's not much you can to solve Morrigan's issues...short of chopping off her head(oh meh gawds Circle mages are evvvil and i'm going to pick a fight with them while we're here in the tower).

Modifié par Jestina, 08 juillet 2010 - 10:27 .

[Xandurpein]

errant_knight wrote...

I would disagree that Alistair is less idealistic when hardened. He sacrifices himelf for his country and for love, if necessary. I wouldn't call him untrusting, either. He still expects people to behave with honor. He just realized that you can't trust blindly and count on it ending well.

I think that you misunderstanding me, or I didn't express myself properly. Hardening doesn't change the man totally. It's a matter of degrees. I never claimed hardened Alistair is untrusting. He is however less inclined to assume that people will be benevolent until they have proven himself to him. Unhardened Alistair is probably too trusting of people whom he has no prior knowledge, for his own good. Just as in the encounter with Goldanna. To me that is something in many ways endearing, even if it leaves him open to exploitation by others.

That is also why I think unhardened Alistair is more idealistic, an idealist is someone who sometiems has his/her head in the clouds. Hardened Alistair is much more pragmatic, but that doesn't make him lose all idealism, I never claimed so either. He is still true to his core values, but he is able to compromise his beliefs in some cases. The fact that he will accept to remain as King when married to Anora and Loghain is pardoned and the fact that he can be persuaded to keep his love as a mistress is witness that he is capable of compromising with his beliefs I think.

Don't read it as extremes. More pragmatic means less idealistic, but that is not the same as not being idealistic at all.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 08 juillet 2010 - 12:23 .