473 réponses à ce sujet

[The Masked Rog]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
I bolded the part of your post that is the main reason that Neverwinter Nights still has a player base after nearly nine years; the single player modules. 

I do hope that we'll see a functional toolset again once they finish updating their technology, because that would be cool, but DA:O didn't quite look toolset-ready and DA2 is toolset-impractical.  Maybe DA3?

Fingers crossed.  But yeah, the toolset was still a single-player experience for me.

And for me as well. But there was a period where MP kept things going on the mod creating community.

[In Exile]

The Masked Rog wrote...
NWN was released to both critical acclaim and players acclaim. It had a solid campaign of the box. It received two expansions, so it surely must have sold at least sufficiently. It had very few costs on the BioWare side of things to run. BioWare could drop every support for multiplayer right now (the master server) and people could still join via multiplayer via direct connection. There are single player mods of quality nearing that of DA:O (no exageration). There is still an active community. Look forward 8 years and tell me if there will be a active DA:O community? NWN1 has one despite having a sequel.

That can be my only reactiom. NWN had a good SP campaign?

...What?

There were brilliant single player mods, I will absolutely agree, but NWN as an SP game out of the box as just crap.

[PsychoBlonde]

In Exile wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...
NWN was released to both critical acclaim and players acclaim. It had a solid campaign of the box. It received two expansions, so it surely must have sold at least sufficiently. It had very few costs on the BioWare side of things to run. BioWare could drop every support for multiplayer right now (the master server) and people could still join via multiplayer via direct connection. There are single player mods of quality nearing that of DA:O (no exageration). There is still an active community. Look forward 8 years and tell me if there will be a active DA:O community? NWN1 has one despite having a sequel.

That can be my only reactiom. NWN had a good SP campaign?

...What?

There were brilliant single player mods, I will absolutely agree, but NWN as an SP game out of the box as just crap.

The story with the expansions was much better, but the original was still a lot of fun to play through.

[Wicked 702]

I too am still waiting for that supposed long list of recent co-op RPGs that ultimately prove that Dragon Age has no need of co-op. News flash: They don't exist. While I would agree that the DA universe should probably remain single-player for the ONLY reason that adding such a thing now would involve tremendous resources, asking for something tiny like being able to have a friend or two control the other party members temporarily or (holy moly!) pick up Controller #2 and be able to play said characters alongside you is really not asking for that much.

Especially the second one. Doing something like that, without even the need for internet protocols or whatnot, is definitely not stepping on the whole "limited resources" issue. FFVI had this little known feature quietly floating in the background. And when my buddy and I figured it out, it made the game even more fun for both of us. Same with games like Secret of Mana and the like.

Oh and by the way, to me this is all part of a growing trend where companies cut features in order to (supposedly) focus on making the core game better. Like removing local splitscreen or co-op. Well guess what, in the end I don't think it makes the game better at all. But clearly that's my opinion so whatever.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 09 novembre 2010 - 12:21 .

[jwraith95]

You only need co-op or multiplayer if your single player sucks
That's why most Bioware's games don't have themjoking,but seriously some developers seem to use either or both as a crutch.

[Wicked 702]

jwraith95 wrote...

You only need co-op or multiplayer if you have friends.

Fixed for you.

...Seriously.

[ErichHartmann]

Wicked 702 wrote...

jwraith95 wrote...

You only need co-op or multiplayer if you have friends.

Fixed for you.

...Seriously.

Seriously, your condescending reply proves you don't understand the arguments against tacking on multiplayer.  Get over it.     

[Wicked 702]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

jwraith95 wrote...

You only need co-op or multiplayer if you have friends.

Fixed for you.

...Seriously.

Seriously, your condescending reply proves you don't understand the arguments against tacking on multiplayer.  Get over it.     

Uh huh...

Or you could actually read my first post proving that I do. And not simply insult me with no logical basis.

[jwraith95]

Wicked 702 wrote...

jwraith95 wrote...

You only need co-op or multiplayer if you have friends.

Fixed for you.

...Seriously.

Oh wow,"I'm hurt so very,very hurt"

[PsychoBlonde]

Wicked 702 wrote...

I too am still waiting for that supposed long list of recent co-op RPGs that ultimately prove that Dragon Age has no need of co-op.

Fallout 3.  Oblivion.  Fallout: New Vegas.  Risen.  There are plenty of RPG's out there with no co-op.  They do things that aren't much fun in a co-op environment, like give you an enormous sandbox to explore or give you a complex plot to get involved in.

Some experiences just aren't improved by having someone around 24/7.  I don't like reading a book with someone reading over my shoulder.  Is there some kind of pathology out there where some people just can't stand to do anything by themselves?  Do you need a co-op bathroom, too?  Is your car equipped with a steering wheel in the passenger's side so your friends can co-op drive with you?  Sheesh.

I have tons of friends and my other current game craze is a MMORPG.  My housemate and I killed Baal together in Diablo II on Hell difficulty, and I still wouldn't have co-op for DA2 if you PAID me.

[Wicked 702]

jwraith95 wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

jwraith95 wrote...

You only need co-op or multiplayer if you have friends.

Fixed for you.

...Seriously.

Oh wow,"I'm hurt so very,very hurt"

If you're somehow implying by my statement that I was making the claim that you have no friends, that would be factually incorrect.

[Wicked 702]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

I too am still waiting for that supposed long list of recent co-op RPGs that ultimately prove that Dragon Age has no need of co-op.

Fallout 3.  Oblivion.  Fallout: New Vegas.  Risen.  There are plenty of RPG's out there with no co-op.  They do things that aren't much fun in a co-op environment, like give you an enormous sandbox to explore or give you a complex plot to get involved in.

Some experiences just aren't improved by having someone around 24/7.  I don't like reading a book with someone reading over my shoulder.  Is there some kind of pathology out there where some people just can't stand to do anything by themselves?  Do you need a co-op bathroom, too?  Is your car equipped with a steering wheel in the passenger's side so your friends can co-op drive with you?  Sheesh.

I have tons of friends and my other current game craze is a MMORPG.  My housemate and I killed Baal together in Diablo II on Hell difficulty, and I still wouldn't have co-op for DA2 if you PAID me.

Read my sentence again please. I asked for a list of games WITH co-op. People in this thread have consistently made the claim that Dragon Age doesn't need co-op because there are plenty of recent co-op games out there. That's why I, and a number of others, were asking for that list.

[jwraith95]

Wicked 702 wrote...

jwraith95 wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

jwraith95 wrote...

You only need co-op or multiplayer if you have friends.

Fixed for you.

...Seriously.

Oh wow,"I'm hurt so very,very hurt"

If you're somehow implying by my statement that I was making the claim that you have no friends, that would be factually incorrect.

no it was just  a joke i would have added a smiley, lol,or something to show it but....

[PsychoBlonde]

Wicked 702 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

I too am still waiting for that supposed long list of recent co-op RPGs that ultimately prove that Dragon Age has no need of co-op.

Fallout 3.  Oblivion.  Fallout: New Vegas.  Risen.  There are plenty of RPG's out there with no co-op.  They do things that aren't much fun in a co-op environment, like give you an enormous sandbox to explore or give you a complex plot to get involved in.

Some experiences just aren't improved by having someone around 24/7.  I don't like reading a book with someone reading over my shoulder.  Is there some kind of pathology out there where some people just can't stand to do anything by themselves?  Do you need a co-op bathroom, too?  Is your car equipped with a steering wheel in the passenger's side so your friends can co-op drive with you?  Sheesh.

I have tons of friends and my other current game craze is a MMORPG.  My housemate and I killed Baal together in Diablo II on Hell difficulty, and I still wouldn't have co-op for DA2 if you PAID me.

Read my sentence again please. I asked for a list of games WITH co-op. People in this thread have consistently made the claim that Dragon Age doesn't need co-op because there are plenty of recent co-op games out there. That's why I, and a number of others, were asking for that list.

Why the heck would a dearth of other co-op games mean that Dragon Age DOES need co-op?  Did it occur to you that the REASON why these other games DON'T have co-op is the same reason why DA doesn't have co-op?  If serveral businesses arrive at the same BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS business decision independently, isn't this a good clue that you are so vastly in the minority that there's no money in catering to your silly whims?

[Wicked 702]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Why the heck would a dearth of other co-op games mean that Dragon Age DOES need co-op?  Did it occur to you that the REASON why these other games DON'T have co-op is the same reason why DA doesn't have co-op?  If serveral businesses arrive at the same BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS business decision independently, isn't this a good clue that you are so vastly in the minority that there's no money in catering to your silly whims?

It doesn't. And it's not the claim I made either. Seriously, is there like 100% reading comprehension fail tonight.

The claim that Dragon Age DOESN'T need co-op because there is supposedly plenty of other RECENT co-op RPGs fails because no such RPGs exist.

THAT'S...ALL...I...WAS....SAYING.

Get it?

Edit: Missing a word

Modifié par Wicked 702, 09 novembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

NWN 1 Official Campaign: The only over-arching plot whose occaisional side quests were far more interesting than the sum of it's parts.



I am hoping the toolset for Dragon Age will be reworked. I loved the toolset for NWN 1. When Obsidian made NWN 2 and it's toolset, I easily wrote off the user-unfriendliness to Obsidian...then I tried to use the DA:O toolset...ouch.

[slimgrin]

While we're at it, let's make it first person view with disease infected zombies who come at you in the droves and all you have is a shotgun and baseball bat to fend them off with. And maybe we could be soldiers, in the military. And I wanna fly a helicopter too.



That would be cool.

[Saibh]

Wicked 702 wrote...

It doesn't. And it's not the claim I made either. Seriously, is there like 100% reading comprehension fail tonight.

The claim that Dragon Age DOESN'T need co-op because there is supposedly plenty of other RECENT co-op RPGs fails because no such RPGs exist.

THAT'S...ALL...I...WAS....SAYING.

Get it?

Edit: Missing a word

Then play a game meant to be played by friends--you know what makes DAO fantastic? Character interactions and dialogue. Story. Lore. Relationships. That's what sets it apart. Co-op works best when the environment is dedicated to battle--like Fable III. It has no place in the DA universe, as it is now. And multiplayer will only detract resources from the singleplayer, the ultimate attraction and point of the game.

If BioWare could somehow, someway include multiplayer in a way that does not detract resources from the singleplayer, I wouldn't care. But that's not going to happen because it means they'd need infinite cash.

[PsychoBlonde]

Wicked 702 wrote...

The claim that Dragon Age DOESN'T need co-op because there is supposedly plenty of other RECENT co-op RPGs fails because no such RPGs exist.

So, you don't want co-op for DA, you're not arguing in favor OF co-op, you just want people to provide you with a list of other RPG's that DO have co-op to prove the validity of an argument that doesn't disagree with your standpoint?  What the heck for?  And if you DO want co-op, why are you complaining because I ascribed this viewpoint to you?  Is this not, in fact, your viewpoint?  My reading comprehension is fine, it's not my fault that your sentences make no sense.

Granted, I haven't read any post in this thread, but I haven't heard anyone claiming that DA doesn't need co-op because lots of games have it--except you.  Almost without exception people say that DA doesn't need co-op because it's not a game that you play cooperatively, and would be annoying if you did.

[PsychoBlonde]

filaminstrel wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

NWN 1 Official Campaign: The only over-arching plot whose occaisional side quests were far more interesting than the sum of it's parts.

I am hoping the toolset for Dragon Age will be reworked. I loved the toolset for NWN 1. When Obsidian made NWN 2 and it's toolset, I easily wrote off the user-unfriendliness to Obsidian...then I tried to use the DA:O toolset...ouch.

A lot of stories have dull main plots compared to their side quests. I would say DAO is one such story. The blight with its quasi-mindless hordes led by a quasi-mindless archdemon are not particularly interesting compared to, I dunno, the story in Nature of the Beast. Unless you're referring to side quests on a more limited scope, like hunting down books for that one mage in NWN.

Hmm, I'd say you'd need a term to distinguish those if you're going to talk about them at any length, like "plot sections" and "side-quests" or "side quests" and "fetch quests".  Something along those lines to avoid confusion, because those are to very different types of "side" quests.  Yeah, I, too thought that the overarching plot was dull, but the large sections of that plot were a lot of fun, highly original, and the companions were a blast.  (Especially Sten.)

[Wicked 702]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

The claim that Dragon Age DOESN'T need co-op because there is supposedly plenty of other RECENT co-op RPGs fails because no such RPGs exist.

So, you don't want co-op for DA, you're not arguing in favor OF co-op, you just want people to provide you with a list of other RPG's that DO have co-op to prove the validity of an argument that doesn't disagree with your standpoint?  What the heck for?  And if you DO want co-op, why are you complaining because I ascribed this viewpoint to you?  Is this not, in fact, your viewpoint?  My reading comprehension is fine, it's not my fault that your sentences make no sense.

Granted, I haven't read any post in this thread, but I haven't heard anyone claiming that DA doesn't need co-op because lots of games have it--except you.  Almost without exception people say that DA doesn't need co-op because it's not a game that you play cooperatively, and would be annoying if you did.

And what you've happily done is take a sentence out of the context of the paragraph it was written for and then proceed to make wild interpretations. How about taking my whole paragraph containing that sentence, as one complete thought/idea, like proper grammatical structure indicates it to be.

[Wicked 702]

Saibh wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

It doesn't. And it's not the claim I made either. Seriously, is there like 100% reading comprehension fail tonight.

The claim that Dragon Age DOESN'T need co-op because there is supposedly plenty of other RECENT co-op RPGs fails because no such RPGs exist.

THAT'S...ALL...I...WAS....SAYING.

Get it?

Edit: Missing a word

Then play a game meant to be played by friends--you know what makes DAO fantastic? Character interactions and dialogue. Story. Lore. Relationships. That's what sets it apart. Co-op works best when the environment is dedicated to battle--like Fable III. It has no place in the DA universe, as it is now. And multiplayer will only detract resources from the singleplayer, the ultimate attraction and point of the game.

If BioWare could somehow, someway include multiplayer in a way that does not detract resources from the singleplayer, I wouldn't care. But that's not going to happen because it means they'd need infinite cash.

Read my intial post.

If people are going to start arguing with me just for the sake of arguing, I'm really going to have to point out that fact. YOU'RE ARGUING AGAINST YOURSELF!

Modifié par Wicked 702, 09 novembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

filaminstrel wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

NWN 1 Official Campaign: The only over-arching plot whose occaisional side quests were far more interesting than the sum of it's parts.

I am hoping the toolset for Dragon Age will be reworked. I loved the toolset for NWN 1. When Obsidian made NWN 2 and it's toolset, I easily wrote off the user-unfriendliness to Obsidian...then I tried to use the DA:O toolset...ouch.

A lot of stories have dull main plots compared to their side quests. I would say DAO is one such story. The blight with its quasi-mindless hordes led by a quasi-mindless archdemon is not particularly interesting compared to, I dunno, the story in Nature of the Beast. Unless you're referring to side quests on a more limited scope, like hunting down books for that one mage in NWN.

Mindless as in uninspired fights against overwhelming evil or mindless as in they make utterly no sense? NWN 1 was the latter for me. Aribeth was one of the most rediculous characters to me and our PCs had to interact with her pretty much all the way through. A paladin renowned for her virtue who wore revealing, impractical armor and who turned so quickly to evil when she wasn't even in love with the man she turned to evil over? Oh...and we meet her transdimensional twin while fighting off a master race of lizardmen from returning to Toril? Whatever the writers were on for that game must of either been very good, or very bad. I would not know, I'm not into drugs.

The plot to Plan 9 From Outer Space and it's cast of characters was more compelling and made more sense than NWN 1.