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[joriandrake]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Their core fans wanted a good story and some good gameplay and didn't give two pots of ****** about customization...

"core fans"?

The core fans are those who played most of their games, and those except a few exceptions were all about costumization and the growth of those options in their sequels

[Fangzz]

joriandrake wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Their core fans wanted a good story and some good gameplay and didn't give two pots of ****** about customization...

"core fans"?

The core fans are those who played most of their games, and those except a few exceptions were all about costumization and the growth of those options in their sequels

I think by "core fans" he means "braindead fanboys who will worship everything Bioware do even if it's ten steps backwards"

What a sellout. There couldn't be a clearer, more cynical, "let's try grab some Mass Effect fans and screw what the original game was about" angle.

[EmperorSahlertz]

by corefans i meant the average joe who went and bought a game. Average Joe did NOT buy dragon age so he could run around as a pitch black dwarf, he bought the game so he could play a classic RPG and enjoy the story and gameplay. HE DID NOT BUY IT FOR CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.... If he wanted customizations he would go play the Sims.... maybe you guys should give that game a whirl....Frankly you people arguing are the braindead fanboys of a feature that has no influence on actual gameplay whatsoever. I can see why people are disappointed at not being able to play elf or dwarf, but not being able to play black/red/yellow/green? Really? Who the hell cares what the color of your skin is?!

[Fangzz]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

by corefans i meant the average joe who went and bought a game. Average Joe did NOT buy dragon age so he could run around as a pitch black dwarf, he bought the game so he could play a classic RPG and enjoy the story and gameplay. HE DID NOT BUY IT FOR CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.... If he wanted customizations he would go play the Sims.... maybe you guys should give that game a whirl....Frankly you people arguing are the braindead fanboys of a feature that has no influence on actual gameplay whatsoever. I can see why people are disappointed at not being able to play elf or dwarf, but not being able to play black/red/yellow/green? Really? Who the hell cares what the color of your skin is?!

Nothing in your post makes any sense.

"Core fan" (implies a dedicated follower of a series) and "average Joe who went and bought a game" (guy who just wants to kill some time every so often) are complete opposites. The hell are you trying to say?

You're basically arguing that Dragon Age should be a casual, straightforward game. Hey - if you don't care about customization or depth, you may as well go play Pacman and Mario Kart.  You're probably one of the only people on the planet who doesn't think that customization and choice adds something to the game. A "classic RPG" is all about choice. That's where the immersion comes from. That's why it's an RPG and not a third person FPS. The choice and immersion of the game (which itself comes from having choice) is the whole point. It's why people want to play the game instead of just watching a movie with the same theme.

Modifié par Fangzz, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:11 .

[wickedwizzard01]

Fangzz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

by corefans i meant the average joe who went and bought a game. Average Joe did NOT buy dragon age so he could run around as a pitch black dwarf, he bought the game so he could play a classic RPG and enjoy the story and gameplay. HE DID NOT BUY IT FOR CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.... If he wanted customizations he would go play the Sims.... maybe you guys should give that game a whirl....Frankly you people arguing are the braindead fanboys of a feature that has no influence on actual gameplay whatsoever. I can see why people are disappointed at not being able to play elf or dwarf, but not being able to play black/red/yellow/green? Really? Who the hell cares what the color of your skin is?!

Nothing in your post makes any sense.

"Core fan" (implies a dedicated follower of a series) and "average Joe who went and bought a game" (guy who just wants to kill some time every so often) are complete opposites. The hell are you trying to say?

You're basically arguing that Dragon Age should be a casual, straightforward game. Hey - if you don't care about customization or depth, you may as well go play Pacman and Mario Kart.  You're probably one of the only people on the planet who doesn't think that customization and choice adds something to the game. A "classic RPG" is all about choice. That's where the immersion comes from. That's why it's an RPG and not a third person FPS. The choice and immersion of the game (which itself comes from having choice) is the whole point. It's why people want to play the game instead of just watching a movie with the same theme.

i do agree with you
and i so hope that you'll be wrong about DA2 
but like you i fear that you might be right

i'm not convinced yet,
but i'll reserve judgement until there's more info released.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Fangzz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

by corefans i meant the average joe who went and bought a game. Average Joe did NOT buy dragon age so he could run around as a pitch black dwarf, he bought the game so he could play a classic RPG and enjoy the story and gameplay. HE DID NOT BUY IT FOR CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.... If he wanted customizations he would go play the Sims.... maybe you guys should give that game a whirl....Frankly you people arguing are the braindead fanboys of a feature that has no influence on actual gameplay whatsoever. I can see why people are disappointed at not being able to play elf or dwarf, but not being able to play black/red/yellow/green? Really? Who the hell cares what the color of your skin is?!

Nothing in your post makes any sense.

"Core fan" (implies a dedicated follower of a series) and "average Joe who went and bought a game" (guy who just wants to kill some time every so often) are complete opposites. The hell are you trying to say?

You're basically arguing that Dragon Age should be a casual, straightforward game. Hey - if you don't care about customization or depth, you may as well go play Pacman and Mario Kart.  You're probably one of the only people on the planet who doesn't think that customization and choice adds something to the game. A "classic RPG" is all about choice. That's where the immersion comes from. That's why it's an RPG and not a third person FPS. The choice and immersion of the game (which itself comes from having choice) is the whole point. It's why people want to play the game instead of just watching a movie with the same theme.

Are you trying to say that because you (theoretically) can't play as a black person in DA2 that it loses a lot of its quality?

[joriandrake]

I wish to have lots of costumization options, but it should be kept within lore, so if there are no humans with purple hair then the game shouldn't allow that, and if there are no black dwarves (because living underground or whatever) according to lore then I think everyone should accept that, same with blue people, both light and dark blue

[Ahisgewaya]

Perhaps, but that doesn't work for humans. Like it or not, Humans aren't some mythical race, they are the actual race of the customer. So why have them in the game at all if not to make the customer relate to them in some way? Only an idiot would think they are saying "only white people exist in our game world"? Do you even realize how racist that is?

[Ahisgewaya]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
]
Are you trying to say that because you (theoretically) can't play as a black person in DA2 that it loses a lot of its quality?

Yeah, I am. The fact that you think it is so trivial shows how sad this situation really is.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 24 juillet 2010 - 07:11 .

[FlintlockJazz]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

by corefans i meant the average joe who went and bought a game. Average Joe did NOT buy dragon age so he could run around as a pitch black dwarf, he bought the game so he could play a classic RPG and enjoy the story and gameplay. HE DID NOT BUY IT FOR CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.... If he wanted customizations he would go play the Sims.... maybe you guys should give that game a whirl....Frankly you people arguing are the braindead fanboys of a feature that has no influence on actual gameplay whatsoever. I can see why people are disappointed at not being able to play elf or dwarf, but not being able to play black/red/yellow/green? Really? Who the hell cares what the color of your skin is?!

Ignoring the glaring contradiction of core fan and average joe, the major aspect of RPGs is defining your character.  I Love ME1 and 2, but you are playing a pregen for that game, and it's NOT a classic RPG.  A classic RPG includes creating your own character, in fact that is one of the major aspects for many roleplayers, so you are wrong on most counts here mate, sorry.

[BlackyBlack]

I find it funny how nobody ever moaned about Planescape: Torment where there were no origins and you were forced to play a human MALE protagonist with a premade face (plus you couldn't change armor/clothing). People still say it's a hardcore true RPG

[FlintlockJazz]

BlackyBlack wrote...

I find it funny how nobody ever moaned about Planescape: Torment where there were no origins and you were forced to play a human MALE protagonist with a premade face (plus you couldn't change armor/clothing). People still say it's a hardcore true RPG

That's because it worked for the story and was different from what was around.  If they had tried it with Baldur's Gate 2, a sequel, and the changes made it similar to what else was out there, then you would have seen people react the same way (had forums been as big back then).  The reason why many people bought DA:O was based around the Origins (which were billed as a big thing) and the ability to create their own character, the named successor is not only stripping that aspect but replacing it with an identical system as to what they have done in another game, indicating a desire by Bioware to make all their games the same (hey just going by what I see, if they don't want people to come to that conclusion then they should supply us with information pointing otherwise).

Had this not been named Dragon Age 2 but rather a game set in the Dragon Age setting then people might be more open as they would not be comparing it to DA:O nor expect it to be the same, but it is and so they are.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 24 juillet 2010 - 10:45 .

[BlackyBlack]

Maybe you have a point, it's a marketing mistake. They should have named it Dragon Age: ____

[FlintlockJazz]

BlackyBlack wrote...

Maybe you have a point, it's a marketing mistake. They should have named it Dragon Age: ____

Exactly, from my understanding the Dragon Age games were intended to establish a new franchise for them to make games in, kind of like how the Forgotten Realms is used as a setting but not every game is a sequel to the last.  We have Half-Life 2 but before that we had Half-Life:Blue Shift, Decay, etc.  Hell we could have a Dragon Age wargame as long as they didn't called it DA3!

[KeeperOfJericho]

I wanted to say that I dont know why people are so upset, or saying this is the franchise going "backwards".

That is stupid. Some of the most classic RPGs (*cough* Planescape *cough*) were centered around a character with a pre-determined backstory. This is knid of new for Bioware, but its not new at all for the genre.

The announcement still surprises me. I kinda thought that, since there were seven Old Gods and there have been five blights, including the one in Origins, there was going to be a trilogy detailing each remaining blight and reveal more about what the darkspawn are, and separate myth and reality about the whole Old God thing.

Although the Origins concept was incredibly well done and I was hoping for it in the second, it seems interesting to me how this opens up the possibility for each Dragon Age game to introduce something different. The first one had the Origins feature, the second features a story spanning a decade, playing a character that at the end become a major figure in the setting...who knows what the third will be?

I dont think the roleplay is affected at all. As an exclusively human character, you have to decide how to react to other companions and races. Will you hold in low esteem your elven companions just because they are elves?

The only thing that has me guessing is that they say the game will be more "action oriented". What the hell does that mean? Origins was packed to the brink with action. Hell, put more action in it, sure, but dont turn it into Diablo :S

Modifié par KeeperOfJericho, 24 juillet 2010 - 11:08 .

[joriandrake]

BlackyBlack wrote...

I find it funny how nobody ever moaned about Planescape: Torment where there were no origins and you were forced to play a human MALE protagonist with a premade face (plus you couldn't change armor/clothing). People still say it's a hardcore true RPG

I didn't like PS and was unable to play through it due to not being able to roleplay that character due to lack of connection, but as there was no Planescape 1 with character costumization which was taken out in a sequel I believe that is why there wasn't such opposition to it as there is to DA2 in which many things are just taken out that were in DA1

This is like selling ice in the 80's, if you start your shop with only vanilla, strawberry, and choco flavor noone will complain over the lack of an extra dozen aor more flavors, but if you had in your shop earlier a lot more flavors then you fropped it to 3, you can bet there will

Modifié par joriandrake, 24 juillet 2010 - 11:31 .

[Bobbyj0]

can we choose what the male or female character looks like?

[mdfitz2]

Bobbyj0 wrote...

can we choose what the male or female character looks like?

yes you necromancing thunder humper

[HopHazzard]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Maybe you have a point, it's a marketing mistake. They should have named it Dragon Age: ____

Exactly, from my understanding the Dragon Age games were intended to establish a new franchise for them to make games in, kind of like how the Forgotten Realms is used as a setting but not every game is a sequel to the last.  We have Half-Life 2 but before that we had Half-Life:Blue Shift, Decay, etc.  Hell we could have a Dragon Age wargame as long as they didn't called it DA3!

Do you honestly think if they announced tomorrow that 'Dragon Age 2' was just a working title and the official title was something like 'Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall' that a single person on these forums would stop complaining?

Modifié par HopHazzard, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:28 .

[BattlePants]

Why is this even a DA game? Why not "A Cheap Way for Bioware To Make Money From Console Gamers: The Story Begins"?

[Lil-Vinny29]

The more I see it and read about it, the more im gonna wait before buying it if I do

[Zalocx]

Anyone other than a human becoming the Champion of Kirkwall makes no sense from a Lore perspective. The city used to be the center of the Tivinter elf slave trade and is now held by the Templars, and we know the Chantry's stance towards the elves. Elf makes no sense.



Dwarves have their own thing happening back home, and surface dwarves tend to not stand out in human political/social stages because of how different the cultures are. So dwarf would be very unlikely.



But most of all: Hawke is from Lothering. A small human farming village next to a swamp. There were no dwarves in Lothering, and the only elves was a family of refugees that were robbed trying to pass through.



If Hawke is allowed to be anything other than a human it not only violates the story they have given us for him but it also violates the lore of Thedas in general. If faced with the choice of customization (which is mostly superficial outside of any "Origin Story" and amounts to a few lines being different in a few conversations in the main quest) or diving people choice at the expense of throwing out the continuity of the world they had established my decision is clear: I would rather be allowed to only play a human than see the whole swathes of the backstory cut away for little reason.

[Sharn01]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

by corefans i meant the average joe who went and bought a game. Average Joe did NOT buy dragon age so he could run around as a pitch black dwarf, he bought the game so he could play a classic RPG and enjoy the story and gameplay. HE DID NOT BUY IT FOR CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.... If he wanted customizations he would go play the Sims.... maybe you guys should give that game a whirl....Frankly you people arguing are the braindead fanboys of a feature that has no influence on actual gameplay whatsoever. I can see why people are disappointed at not being able to play elf or dwarf, but not being able to play black/red/yellow/green? Really? Who the hell cares what the color of your skin is?!

"Core Fans" are the fans who have been with a company for years and allowed them to build themselves up.  What you are describing is appealing to the masses which is the opposite of appealing to your core fanbase.

[Sharn01]

I have stated before in other threads that I am not happy with the change, and it has nothing to do with voice acting, its a time/story thing. 

I am not a fan of this, I prefer an rpg where I can make my own character, VA is great but it takes up a lot of space and usually leaves a game shorter and with less options.

Does this mean there will be later releases of Dragon Age where we will exclusively play as the elf who's story is to unite the elven people and lead them to a new homeland.  Your decisions determine the relations with the surrounding humans and possibly dwarves, who may stand with or against you when the huge final battle takes place as you bring down the exalted march called against your newfound home.

What about the story of the dwarf who's mission is to raise a powerful dwarven army to reclaim the deep roads from the horrors that now infest it.  The adventure spans years as you amass fame and power, building an army and allies to march against the hordes of darkspawn and other infestations of the deep roads, reopening trade routes and reclaiming lost cities.

I doubt we will ever see these or similarly themed games, as they dont follow the mass appeal formula the stereotypical boring human hero.  The young human peasant who becomes a big time hero ala DA2 sounds like just about every japanese anime and game you can think of, how is that a good thing?