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[Massadonious1]

Core fans should be upset that this is not a Mech or D&D game.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 28 juillet 2010 - 07:22 .

[FlintlockJazz]

HopHazzard wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Maybe you have a point, it's a marketing mistake. They should have named it Dragon Age: ____

Exactly, from my understanding the Dragon Age games were intended to establish a new franchise for them to make games in, kind of like how the Forgotten Realms is used as a setting but not every game is a sequel to the last.  We have Half-Life 2 but before that we had Half-Life:Blue Shift, Decay, etc.  Hell we could have a Dragon Age wargame as long as they didn't called it DA3!

Do you honestly think if they announced tomorrow that 'Dragon Age 2' was just a working title and the official title was something like 'Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall' that a single person on these forums would stop complaining?

No, because they have already announced it as the sequel.  DA2 being a working title would be stupid if it was never intended to be the sequel and them announcing that it was just the working title would either indicate that its still intended to be the sequel or Bioware has decided to backtrack.  If they had announced from the start that it was not intended to be a direct sequel then no, people would not complain as much, I wouldn't for one.  Icewind Dale, Planescape:Torment and Neverwinter Nights were all set in the same world or metaverse as Baldur's Gate yet no one should expect them to work the same way as a direct sequel to it would.

[Weldridge]

The character of the game is NOT the child of Morrigan.....you are a survivor from Lothering. And it's not a marketing mistake. Look at the website...the title of the game is Dragon Age: Origins....and Awakening is an extension of Origins. This will be Dragon Age 2....NOT origins...hence, no ORIGINS. The story has been established alright, so there is no need for origins. The sequel is telling a specific story from a particular area of the lore of the Dragon Age universe.



In no way is it a step back in the slightest. Just because things aren't the same as you know them, doesn't make them bad. The basement dwelling introverts need to learn to accept change as a good thing and move on, lol.

[HopHazzard]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Maybe you have a point, it's a marketing mistake. They should have named it Dragon Age: ____

Exactly, from my understanding the Dragon Age games were intended to establish a new franchise for them to make games in, kind of like how the Forgotten Realms is used as a setting but not every game is a sequel to the last.  We have Half-Life 2 but before that we had Half-Life:Blue Shift, Decay, etc.  Hell we could have a Dragon Age wargame as long as they didn't called it DA3!

Do you honestly think if they announced tomorrow that 'Dragon Age 2' was just a working title and the official title was something like 'Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall' that a single person on these forums would stop complaining?

No, because they have already announced it as the sequel.  DA2 being a working title would be stupid if it was never intended to be the sequel and them announcing that it was just the working title would either indicate that its still intended to be the sequel or Bioware has decided to backtrack.  If they had announced from the start that it was not intended to be a direct sequel then no, people would not complain as much, I wouldn't for one.  Icewind Dale, Planescape:Torment and Neverwinter Nights were all set in the same world or metaverse as Baldur's Gate yet no one should expect them to work the same way as a direct sequel to it would.

I never got what the fuss was about. People made a lot of assumptions because of the number 2. If they had called it Dragon Age:Origins 2 I could maybe understand the disappointment. But it's Dragon Age 2. An age is a hundred years long. I didn't even assume Dragon Age 2 would be set at the same time as DAO, let alone involve the same people. But then playing Final Fantasy as long as I have, I'm pretty used to numbers in titles meaning absolutely nothing.

[Blessed Silence]

Solostran85 wrote...

I don't know if I'm taking this wrong but right now it feels like all the customization the first game had will be absent in the second.

I think the game had more customization besides what someone looks like.  To me is is more your actions, if you persuade your way into an area or find another way, if you feel like trying to change the land by doing side quests and helping people, and how different my choices are dealing with party make up and skills.

I personally am not bothered by being steered to play only one race for a character as I am quite used to those games.  I am happy I get to play a female lead as many games forced you to always play males.

[FlintlockJazz]

HopHazzard wrote...

I never got what the fuss was about. People made a lot of assumptions because of the number 2. If they had called it Dragon Age:Origins 2 I could maybe understand the disappointment. But it's Dragon Age 2. An age is a hundred years long. I didn't even assume Dragon Age 2 would be set at the same time as DAO, let alone involve the same people. But then playing Final Fantasy as long as I have, I'm pretty used to numbers in titles meaning absolutely nothing.

Weldridge wrote...

This will be Dragon Age 2....NOT
origins...hence, no ORIGINS. The story has been established alright, so
there is no need for origins. The sequel is telling a specific story
from a particular area of the lore of the Dragon Age universe.

It is called Dragon Age 2, the Origins in the first one was a subtitle, like Die Hard 2: Die Harder.  Dragon Age 2 will no doubt have its own sub heading, this does not stop it from being the direct sequel, just as having Die Harder in Die Hard 2 did not stop it from being the sequel, having a 2 in the title is what makes this obvious as an intended direct sequel to the first.  Had they removed the ability to create your own character in BG2 do you think people would have been as happy?  No, they want to create their own characters for this type of game, except that its starting to look more and more that they are not even making a similar game geared towards the same group of players as the first one, but rather something entirely different.  Different is not bad, but when its the direct sequel people feel that it is taking a step back when major features are removed.

Final Fantasy has always been a set of self contained stories, that is their theme and all their games continue that theme.  If Final Fantasy 14 came out set in the same world as Final Fantasy 13 with all the same characters expect to see people screaming, because it would be breaking with what Final Fantasy is about.  Hell, some people complained when they stopped letting you change your character's name, imagine how it would have gone down if Final Fantasy had orginally let you create your character like DA:O did and then removed it in a subsequent game.

[HopHazzard]

I guess my complete lack of disappointment in what I've heard is making it difficult for me to empathize. I just never really expected that the sequel would involve the warden or anyone else we'd met previously. It's a big world they've created. I always figured the sequels would show us different parts of it.

[FlintlockJazz]

HopHazzard wrote...

I guess my complete lack of disappointment in what I've heard is making it difficult for me to empathize. I just never really expected that the sequel would involve the warden or anyone else we'd met previously. It's a big world they've created. I always figured the sequels would show us different parts of it.

Yes, but normally RPGs allow you to create your own character regardless of Origins, hell I don't think people are that fussed of a lack of Origins than they are the lack of being able to create their own characters.  Plus showing us different parts doesn't require a complete change in direction for the series, which from the information it appears to be for many people.

You aren't disappointed, great, I can emphathize that some people may welcome the change, hell I personally will be reserving my opinion until I see more information, but just because you cannot emphathize in return does not invalidate that others may not feel the same, nor that they may have points.  Its a big world, doesn't mean they have different laws of physics in different places.

[Aradace]

Cerberus Operative wrote...

Just to clear this up, having read some of the posts on the forums, can we still choose between humans, elves and dwarves?

*clears throat in preparation to quote the Moderator again* If you plan on playing DA2, you WILL play as a Human, his/her last name WILL be Hawke, and he WILL be fully voiced.  Not difficult to at least stay up to date on the basics

[HopHazzard]

Aradace wrote...

Cerberus Operative wrote...

Just to clear this up, having read some of the posts on the forums, can we still choose between humans, elves and dwarves?

*clears throat in preparation to quote the Moderator again* If you plan on playing DA2, you WILL play as a Human, his/her last name WILL be Hawke, and he WILL be fully voiced.  Not difficult to at least stay up to date on the basics

Did you seriously just respond to the first entry of 25 page thread?

[Cerberus Operative]

Aradace wrote...

Cerberus Operative wrote...

Just to clear this up, having read some of the posts on the forums, can we still choose between humans, elves and dwarves?

*clears throat in preparation to quote the Moderator again* If you plan on playing DA2, you WILL play as a Human, his/her last name WILL be Hawke, and he WILL be fully voiced.  Not difficult to at least stay up to date on the basics

Thanks for responding, but my question was answered 3 weeks ago.

[AlanC9]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Yes, but normally RPGs allow you to create your own character regardless of Origins, hell I don't think people are that fussed of a lack of Origins than they are the lack of being able to create their own characters.

Normally? Depends on what you mean by normal, I guess.  Defining your background?  BG, NWN2, the Fallouts, KotOR2 and arguably KotOR 1 assigned a background to you. Picking a race? Couldn't do that in the KotOR games or ME. You couldn't change anything about your PC in Planescape.

If anything, DAO is the abnormal game here.

[Sharn01]

Yeah, if we compare it to every RPG in exsistence its in the minority, but for Bioware made fantasy rpgs its the second one they have ever made that didnt let you choose your race. Not that any of that even matters, but you brought it up in the first place.

[joriandrake]

FlintlockJazz wrote...


Final Fantasy has always been a set of self contained stories, that is their theme and all their games continue that theme.  If Final Fantasy 14 came out set in the same world as Final Fantasy 13 with all the same characters expect to see people screaming, because it would be breaking with what Final Fantasy is about.  Hell, some people complained when they stopped letting you change your character's name, imagine how it would have gone down if Final Fantasy had orginally let you create your character like DA:O did and then removed it in a subsequent game.

this

[sreaction]

The generic character makes it easy for the devs is logistically simpler for the voice acting but I am disappointed. YOU WILL PLAY AS A HUMAN AND YOUR NAME WILL BE HAWK. Sounds like generic lameness.I'm not so sure I will play as a human nor am I sure my name will be Hawk. I may just forgo the game if I don't like what I see, (I did with Awakenings). but I imagine I will wait and see what comes to pass
I just ventured to the site to see if anything was in the works with DA. Honestly not that excited about what I see. When I first bought DAO I was leery because it was an EA game. EA to me, means dumbed down games for the masses, marketability, simplification for the console gamers. I was mightily delighted with DAO. It seems my fears have come true. Honestly, I dont expect the same from 2 though I remain slightly hopeful. I'm looking for intricacy not simplification. Freedom of action not cookie cutter characters... we shall see.

Modifié par sreaction, 30 juillet 2010 - 06:34 .

[kraze07]

Hopefully it won't take long for someone to create alternate race mods for the PC version.

[Boredmad]

AlanC9 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Yes, but normally RPGs allow you to create your own character regardless of Origins, hell I don't think people are that fussed of a lack of Origins than they are the lack of being able to create their own characters.

Normally? Depends on what you mean by normal, I guess.  Defining your background?  BG, NWN2, the Fallouts, KotOR2 and arguably KotOR 1 assigned a background to you. Picking a race? Couldn't do that in the KotOR games or ME. You couldn't change anything about your PC in Planescape.

If anything, DAO is the abnormal game here.

There are several games that allow one to choice race Morrowind, Oblivion, DA:O, technically Fallout 3 ext are only some examples I can think of that I've played recently. DA:O wasn't unique in being able to pick race the origins themselves, some of the handling of the different races, and their interactions with each other was more unique though. If the developers had modified the origin of Hawke to allow for the other races as being playable I doubt there would be as many complants on this forum.

[Blessed Silence]

Good lord, you people are all calling for the roof to fall in before it even has.



Nothing wrong with having one character to play. The customization is in the details you make for the character. Heck back int he day you were ONLY stuck with a male character and human. I'm just happy I can play as a female!



THis doesn't bother me at all. I have tried all the origins for those wondering, and always gravitated back to the human ones though I found the dwarf noble quite heart wrenching. Personal preference perhaps.

[Boredmad]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Good lord, you people are all calling for the roof to fall in before it even has.

Nothing wrong with having one character to play. The customization is in the details you make for the character. Heck back int he day you were ONLY stuck with a male character and human. I'm just happy I can play as a female!

THis doesn't bother me at all. I have tried all the origins for those wondering, and always gravitated back to the human ones though I found the dwarf noble quite heart wrenching. Personal preference perhaps.

Its rather simple to understand those that aren't entirely happy with the new direction that BioWare is going in. Most weren't expecting Hawke, but new origins creating a new character for a new adventure. Hawke as a far more restrective character is of course causing some groups to freak out.

Hawke's existence itself really though isn't the heart of the issue. I don't see why Hawke couldn't in reason be only really minorly altered to allow for players to play as the other races. Just from what we know nothing about his origin isn't something that couldn't be altered to except the other races.

Modifié par Boredmad, 30 juillet 2010 - 07:00 .

[sreaction]

I think the heart of the matter lies in marketability which basically translates into $. How fast can we get this done?, etc. What can we do to attract people who haven't played Origins & Awakenings?

In the podcast about DA2 by lead Designer Mike Laidlaw and Community Manager Victor Wachter, Wachter, , mentions the high complexity of Origins, " there are people who would love to play Dragon Age but they just may not know about the game they may not be able to play the game it might be too hardcore, too tough, cause there were some [difficult] elements in Origins." I found this comment be a head scratch-er. There wasn't anything in DAO that I found to be overwhelming or intimidating. In fact it could have suffered a bit more complexity. As it stands DAO is the perfect mixture of simplicity and freedom of action, i.e origin stories coupled with the abitliy freedom to affect the world around you with the decisions you make.I found DAO to be very intuitive, very forgiving and very user friendly. Hell, I even completed a quest without even trying by inadvertently finding all the necessary items. So to me the direction they are taking is based on attracting the most consumers, which you cant really fault them for, but ultimately leads to oversimplification of the game. It certainly leaves the hardcore RPG fan out in the cold.I'm talking the true nerds, the people that still have 20 sided die.

Modifié par sreaction, 30 juillet 2010 - 07:41 .

[joriandrake]

all hail the d20!

[FlintlockJazz]

Boredmad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Yes, but normally RPGs allow you to create your own character regardless of Origins, hell I don't think people are that fussed of a lack of Origins than they are the lack of being able to create their own characters.

Normally? Depends on what you mean by normal, I guess.  Defining your background?  BG, NWN2, the Fallouts, KotOR2 and arguably KotOR 1 assigned a background to you. Picking a race? Couldn't do that in the KotOR games or ME. You couldn't change anything about your PC in Planescape.

If anything, DAO is the abnormal game here.

There are several games that allow one to choice race Morrowind, Oblivion, DA:O, technically Fallout 3 ext are only some examples I can think of that I've played recently. DA:O wasn't unique in being able to pick race the origins themselves, some of the handling of the different races, and their interactions with each other was more unique though. If the developers had modified the origin of Hawke to allow for the other races as being playable I doubt there would be as many complants on this forum.

Aye, like the BG games, you had the same starting point and general history but race, gender, class and outlook were pretty much left to the player, and the history was left deliberately vague to allow the player to fill in their own details.  I partly blame the predominance of Voice Acting in modern games for this, back in Baldur's Gate if you wanted to refer to the character's race you would just use a variable such as CHARACTER-RACE in the actual text which would call up the PC's current race and stick that in instead, same for the name.  Now we need to have the sentance repeated when recording for every possible racial option there is, for every sentance that refers to the race, and it's impossible to record every possible name a player could name their character now. 

Some people can't seem to live without VA, I'm starting to find I'm the opposite.

[FlintlockJazz]

AlanC9 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Yes, but normally RPGs allow you to create your own character regardless of Origins, hell I don't think people are that fussed of a lack of Origins than they are the lack of being able to create their own characters.

Normally? Depends on what you mean by normal, I guess.  Defining your background?  BG, NWN2, the Fallouts, KotOR2 and arguably KotOR 1 assigned a background to you. Picking a race? Couldn't do that in the KotOR games or ME. You couldn't change anything about your PC in Planescape.

If anything, DAO is the abnormal game here.

BG allowed you to still choose your race and determine who you are.  Icewind Dale 1 and 2 let you choose your race and class of all your party members.  Morrowind, Oblivion, Daggerfall, Arcanum, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Neverwinter Nights 1, all let you create your own character.  This is before we get into tabletop or live action roleplay which is what CRPGs attempt to emulate.

[SirGladiator]

I do agree that they've taken things 'waaaaay' too far with the way that they're implementing the Voice for the player. The idea that you need a different voice for every possible race is just absurd, but they've taken that idea so literally that they've cut out 2/3 of the races in the game for player creation, one of the most basic elements in the game. I think Voice for the player is a fantastic idea, and its going to make a great game even greater, but there's no logical reason on earth why the same voice can't be used for each race.



Its funny, earlier I actually came across a mod for DAO that does just that, it allows you to pick any voice for your character regardless of race, so thanks to that mod you could easily have a dwarf or elf that sounds like a human. People LIKE having that possibility, but somehow somebody at Bioware thought it was so horrible an idea that they actually cut out the dwarf/elf choices from the game to avoid the very possibility of it. That's the one new part of DA2 that I disagree with far more than anything else, because it just doesn't make any sense. Voice is great, cutting out the other race options instead of just using the same voice for all, not great. Greatly dumb, but not great .

[Onac Proudmoore]

I mourn the option to choose a race, but I think that DA2 will be a great game nevertheless.

I mean... some of you complain about the lack of customization, but that is only at the character creation. You don't choose race, because that is given for you, but the heart of the character, his personality will be yours determine again, just like in Origins, just like in Kotor and in many other good RPGs.
I recall that Bioware stated that in DA2 players will be able to determine who the Champion of Kirkwall really is. I understand it so, that we'll be able to determine Hawke's motives, his character, whether he is a good or a bad person and that is what gives RPGs their true meaning.

Also... it isn't a bad thing that they tell you that you're Hawke of Lothering who'll later become the Champion of Kirkwall. Good story takes some of the freedom away of the players and Bioware has always been known for creating awesome stories. We have always been thrown into somekind of role in past games as well.
For example even though, we were able to choose our race in Origins, we were forced to be one of the two surviving Grey Wardens in Ferelden and were your Wardens all the same people?
In Jade Empire we were forced to be the last Spirit Monk. In Kotor we were forced to be the former dark lord of the Sith and were those characters the same in all of our playthroughs? I doubt so.
This time we'll be forced to be the Champions of Kirkwall, but our characters'll be able to be unique despite this fact, I'm sure of that.

Also... You DO need different voice for different races. Maybe if there would be just two, like a human and dwarf, or human and elf, they could make one voice over for both races, but come on... dwarves and elves sound so different that they can't really manage it.

But I don't really think that they left out the other races because of the voice over, at least I hope they didn't, because that would truly be the wrong way of thinking... at least in my oppinion
I think it was the other way around. They first decided that in this game you'll play as Hawke who is a human and then decided to add VO. That would make sense. We know quite little of Hawke's story, but even of this little... him being a human just makes perfect sense.

Zalocx explained this quite well before me in a post in the 24th page of this thread. You can search for it

Modifié par Onac Proudmoore, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:11 .