202 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Relix28 wrote...

ilikeicehockey wrote...

could be a liara expansion, I mean she's a biotic so both of them complement each other.

I have a theory on this. Maybe in this Liara vs. Shadowbroker dlc, Liara will be an actual squadmate with her unique biotic power. And once you complete the mission, that power will become available for Shep (just like any loyalty power basically).

And this kinda makes sense with what Ms. Norman tweeted. Since Liara is an adept herself, her unique power would best compliment the adepts (obviously). Ergo, it will make the adepts more powerfull.

It's a good idea, but then Adepts wouldn't get the upgrade until after Horizon. Since a lot of the biotic upgrades are after Horizon, they definitely need a boost near the beginning.

[HBC Dresden]

Hmmm another power, hadn't really thought of that. I thought it would be through a research upgrade or adding a buff to a biotic power once we reach rank 3, or something like that. Nevertheless, my Adept Shep is happy to hear this!

[Burdokva]

I hope biotics will bypass shields and armor, but not barriers - fits the lore, and barriers are designed against biotic powers mostly.

[Kroesis-]

I call new armour favouring biotics and engineers by way of multiple stats. Just like the recent Kestral Armour tends to favour Vanguards and Soldiers with extra melee damage and weapon damage.

[Freakaz0idx]

Siansonea II wrote...

I didn't even get my Adept up to Level 30 when I finished her playthrough, she was so boring to play. Adepts need a tactical movement power, a biotic Barrier that actually works, or something similar, they too often get pinned in one spot. Engineers are in the same boat.

This game seems to be made for Infiltrators, Sentinels, and Vanguards. Those classes were the most fun and most interesting to play tactically. Engineer is Overload + Combat Drone all the time, Adept is Warp + Singularity all the time. Soldier is just shoot, shoot, shoot.

The game is pretty balanced. You can say the same thing for every class you think this game was built for, Infiltrators just shoot, shoot, shoot, Sentinels just strip defenses and shoot, Vanguards just charge and shotgun. It's all your preference, not the game. To me, Soldiers and Adepts totally dominate. 

Modifié par Freakaz0idx, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:45 .

[Grand_Commander13]

Burdokva wrote...

I hope biotics will bypass shields and armor, but not barriers - fits the lore, and barriers are designed against biotic powers mostly.

The technical term for what you just did is an asspull.  Nowhere in the game does it give any indication that biotic barriers are anything more than shields from a biotic.  In ME1 it's just added to shields, and in ME2 the only difference is whether it's cut by scissors or crushed by rocks.

I mean, if anything biotic barriers are weak against biotic powers in ME2.

[Kitteh303]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Burdokva wrote...

I hope biotics will bypass shields and armor, but not barriers - fits the lore, and barriers are designed against biotic powers mostly.

The technical term for what you just did is an asspull.  Nowhere in the game does it give any indication that biotic barriers are anything more than shields from a biotic.  In ME1 it's just added to shields, and in ME2 the only difference is whether it's cut by scissors or crushed by rocks.

I mean, if anything biotic barriers are weak against biotic powers in ME2.

Indeed, I've found that an advanced warp can take down a big chunk of a biotic barrier.

[Shotokanguy]

It makes sense to me. Yeah, BioWare doesn't go into detail on this stuff (another missed opportunity, narrative wise) but I interpret barriers as being pretty much the same as the actual biotic ability "barrier", just the shield barriers are maintained by the hardsuit's electronics so the biotic doesn't have to concentrate on keeping them up 24/7.



As to why that would make them resistant to biotics, think of mass effect fields as...bricks or something. Throw is like throwing a brick at someone, but it impacts the brick barrier and doesn't do anything. Warp, however, is like a bunch of bricks spinning around and slamming into things, so it would break through the barrier.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Could be. But first of all it isn't a patch. A patch fixes bugs. If it was in ME2 it would be DLC.
-Polite

You've never heard of a balance patch? A patch to address gameplay issues that are not bugs?  I can give you plenty examples of balance issues being addressed in game patches, including patches for Bioware games.

It is welcome news if Bioware will indeed address the issues people have brought up about adepts.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I didn't even get my Adept up to Level 30 when I finished her playthrough, she was so boring to play. Adepts need a tactical movement power, a biotic Barrier that actually works, or something similar, they too often get pinned in one spot. Engineers are in the same boat.

This game seems to be made for Infiltrators, Sentinels, and Vanguards. Those classes were the most fun and most interesting to play tactically. Engineer is Overload + Combat Drone all the time, Adept is Warp + Singularity all the time. Soldier is just shoot, shoot, shoot.

The game is pretty balanced. You can say the same thing for every class you think this game was built for, Infiltrators just shoot, shoot, shoot, Sentinels just strip defenses and shoot, Vanguards just charge and shotgun. It's all your preference, not the game. To me, Soldiers and Adepts totally dominate. 

No, the classes focussed around guns play the same regardless of difficulty. Adepts begin to play like gimped soldiers as the difficulty level rises.

But anywasys we'll just have to wait and see what they have in the works.

[Crunchyinmilk]

I don't get it, Adepts already seemed pretty bad assed to me.

I did my NG+ insanity run with one and it was a blast. I did every mission I could before recruiting Mordin, just to delay upgrades. This is not a see my wang moment (ok, maybe a little BIG wow its so BIG *cough*).

I honestly found adept to be the best of all classes. I seriously hope this isn't late game cheesing like that stupid Aegis set.

[Jackal904]

Crunchyinmilk wrote...

I don't get it, Adepts already seemed pretty bad assed to me.
I did my NG+ insanity run with one and it was a blast. I did every mission I could before recruiting Mordin, just to delay upgrades. This is not a see my wang moment (ok, maybe a little BIG wow its so BIG *cough*).
I honestly found adept to be the best of all classes. I seriously hope this isn't late game cheesing like that stupid Aegis set.

Have you tried the other classes?

[squidney2k1]

I think the whole system needs a rock-paper-scissors scheme. Here's my idea:

Armor:
- Weak vs. weapons.
- Normal against Tech attacks.
- Strong against Biotic attacks.

Shields:
- Weak against Tech attacks.
- Normal against Biotic attacks.
- Strong against weapons (that's what shields are for....duh!).

Barriers:
- Weak against Biotic attacks.
- Normal against Weapons.
- Strong against Tech attacks.


Misc:
- They could keep the current system where weapons have slight bonuses against certain defenses, but reduce those bonuses slightly (say by 1/4).
- If an enemy has exposed health, the will be subject to 100% of the damage from a power (if applicable), and 100% of the status effects, just like normal.
- If the enemy is subject to an attack that has a "weak" rating against it, they will be subject to the power's effects, and take most of the damage (75%)...so an enemy that has a Barrier up will still go flying if hit with a Throw, but not as far, and won't take all off the damage.
- If an enemy is subject to an attack that has a "normal" rating against it, it staggers the enemy (they simply react)/they are mildy affected by status effects, and take 50% or so damage.....so a Throw vs. Shields may cause the enemy to simply drop to it's knees for a second.
- If an enemy is subject to an attack that has a "strong" rating against it, it is not staggered and takes minimal damage (25%)....so a Throw vs. Armor will only cause an enemy to stop moving for a fraction of a second as they obsorb the impact with a smile.


This type of set-up would certainly make using biotic powers a helluva lot more fun, instead of being forced to Warp everyone until their health is exposed, to which point an Adept is simply just a boring "finisher." Obviously, some powers could still be more effective as others (Warp still gets a bonus vs. Armor), but these would just be the general rules.


Now, I know that some people would think that doing this give combination classes like the Sentinel an advantage since it's specialized against 2 defenses instead of just one like the pure classes (Soldier, Engineer, Adept)...and the key to solving that problem is to do what they did in KOTOR --- variable class damage. This means that an Adept's throw will always be stronger than a Sentinel or Vanguard's throw. Combination classes have a broader mix of powers, but they are simply slightly weaker with each one (except for class-specific ones like Tech Armor).

Modifié par squidney2k1, 09 juillet 2010 - 12:27 .

[Grand_Commander13]

I have. Adepts are rather easy, Infiltrators surprisingly difficult for me considering the high praise they constantly garner. Adepts have this never-ending supply of "you die very quickly now!" biotics, and once an enemy's shields are stripped you just Pull them and they die about half a second later. Guy getting in your grill? Singularity him, gun his shields down while he's stuck on it, and then Warp him once he starts floating.

I mean, sure, Infiltrator can Tactical Cloak into good positions and out of bad ones, but Adept can just utterly stop an enemy advance.

[jgomezish]

Yay! this will make my super quick killing machine/amazing crowd control class into more of a super quick killing machine/amazing crowd control class!

[rabidhanar]

Crunchyinmilk wrote...

I don't get it, Adepts already seemed pretty bad assed to me.
I did my NG+ insanity run with one and it was a blast. I did every mission I could before recruiting Mordin, just to delay upgrades. This is not a see my wang moment (ok, maybe a little BIG wow its so BIG *cough*).
I honestly found adept to be the best of all classes. I seriously hope this isn't late game cheesing like that stupid Aegis set.

Alright Crunchy I will bite.....would you kindly tell me what 1 ability you used in every single conflict against an enemy? Also, would you kindly tell me what bonus power you obtained (I concur that it was probably energy drain) and also whether or not you modded your profile.

If crunchy, your answer to my first question was warp, which I most likely believe it was than the adept is unbalanced as they require the use of this one ability to do any real damage to enemies on NG+ insanity. Also if your answer to my second question is that yes, you chose energy drain for your bonus than an adept should not use a tech ability as they would, in general, not understand the complicated computer maneavers that enable a tech expert to use these abilities.

Finally, if you did mod your game than this conversation is meaningless as your adept is most likely not the canon version of an adept and so your gameplay is not based on the adept's canon strategy.

Any person can beat an adept playthrough on insanity if they spam warp, but we really should not have too. I agree that armor should not affect biotics very much (throw and shockwave would probably actually do more damage as the effect of gravity on a heavier combat suit would cause more internal damage, potentually raising damage.

[Grand_Commander13]

^If you Warp spam Adept no wonder you think it's lame. All their abilities (okay, except maybe Throw...) are pretty good. I took Warp ammo myself.

[rabidhanar]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

^If you Warp spam Adept no wonder you think it's lame. All their abilities (okay, except maybe Throw...) are pretty good. I took Warp ammo myself.

Most people including me spam warp or fire the smg to get rid of defenses on insanity, yes having a tech teamate is helpful but on insanity even a level 4 overload cannot disable all shields in one hit. Especially on collector missions warp is spammed to destroy barriers, since every opponent has barriers, you have to use it a lot. After defenses are destroyed Yes I use the other abilities (particularly singularity) but at that point I might as well not bother, health is so weak anyway that 3 pistol shots using a predator pistol will kill them. If shockwave, pull or throw affected targets with defenses Adepts would be a lot more fun to play as in my opinion.

[Grand_Commander13]

Ha, three Predator shots to the chest killing someone? I suppose you have a video up?

Shockwave and Singularity both affect targets with their defenses up. Shockwave is really overshadowed by Singularity's effectiveness at it, but has some use in its own right (it's definitely not one of the big three though).

[rabidhanar]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Ha, three Predator shots to the chest killing someone? I suppose you have a video up?
Shockwave and Singularity both affect targets with their defenses up. Shockwave is really overshadowed by Singularity's effectiveness at it, but has some use in its own right (it's definitely not one of the big three though).

To begin with, no Three Predator Shots To the head can kill an enemy. Singularity and shockwave keep an enemy in their place while doing some damage to them, compared to their original effects that can do some great things to them (area effect,instant kill by fall damage, knockback, disabling). Also while used against a target with defenses the duration is greatly decreased to generally 2-3 seconds. Singularity is far more useful than shockwave, but both are very inferior to their original effect against the health bar. Singularity I mostly use as a trap or against Harbringer but is not very helpful, in my opinion, on insanity NG+. It is not very effective until you obtain at least 3 biotic upgrades, which are available after horizon (second hardest level for adepts to play)

Modifié par rabidhanar, 09 juillet 2010 - 12:56 .

[Grand_Commander13]

Horizon was actually laughably easy smacking the scions around with Singularity.

Really, I thought this whole "Singularity is so weak on Hardcore/Insanity and so is Adept!" got put to bed a few months ago, not long after people realized "hey, the Vanguard crushes Insanity".

[Pocketgb]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Horizon was actually laughably easy smacking the scions around with Singularity.
Really, I thought this whole "Singularity is so weak on Hardcore/Insanity and so is Adept!" got put to bed a few months ago, not long after people realized "hey, the Vanguard crushes Insanity".

Many of the complaints were from old ME1 fans who were not yet used to the way classes played in ME2. I only played a Vanguard briefly in ME1, so when I picked one up in ME2 I was really confused at what everyone was so upset about.

I haven't played an Adept too briefly in ME2 just yet, but they have not come out to be the 'boring as hell' class yet.

[Jackal904]

slimgrin wrote...

I played through on insanity with adept. Worked well enough for me. I was forced to rely more on my squad, gameplay felt more tactical.

Tactical as in slow. I'm sure insanity is very doable as an adept, but compared to other classes it is weak, and it takes much longer for an adept to kill things.

[NICKjnp]

I want armor that boosts shields 20%, boosts power damage 20%, boosts power duration 20% boosts paragon/renegade 15% and boosts power recharge time 20%. End of line!