202 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackal904]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Why do people never whine about the Sentinel having to shoot stuff, or the Engineer having to shoot stuff? Only the Adept, when it's just one of the three power-heavy classes.

Well I have never played as a sentinel or an engineer so I don't know what the gameplay with them is like. And the sentinel is supposed to be a jack of all trades. It's not supposed to solely rely in it's biotics.

Malanek999 wrote...

Maybe throw should work on armour, pull on barriers and shockwave on shields.

That would make no sense though.

[Malanek]

Jackal904 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Maybe throw should work on armour, pull on barriers and shockwave on shields.

That would make no sense though.

I'm assuming you mean from a gamelore/science point of view? From a gameplay point of view I believe it makes sense. Assuming it was judged a gameplay improvement, I think that should trump the lore aspect. Just say the different abilities produce different kinds of mass effect fields. The lore has already changed around this anyway.

An alternative method could be to compare the rank of the ability and make it work over the top of a single protection up to a certain value. Eg Level 1 Throw works when shield or barrier below 50 points, Level 2, 80 points, level 3 110 points, level 4 150 points. That would add to a players skill in judging how depleted the protection would have to be before using an ability.

[Neo Hex Omega]

DanielJr wrote...

I can see why biotics would be blocked with biotic barriers or shields, but armor? Come on. I can probably go in a nerd tangent why that would be, but I don't feel like writing much at the moment. Let's just say that ARMOR is part of your suit, isn't it? Can't biotics manipulate any kind of matter, including suits? Armor isn't a kinetic barrier.

Actually, I think armor would be more resistant to biotics than barriersseeing as they can be loaded with element zero microwells and kinetic dampeners(which was represented in ME1 by the Tech/Biotic protection stat).

Personal kinetic barriers are only designed to stop high velocity impacts, and they should not have any effect on incoming dark energy attacks.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Me thinks: They will give us one new class specific power for each class, and 2 more for each character. (The remaining empty slots on the skills menus and wheels) plus it's not the first case of downloadable powers (Zaeed and Kasumi both give you a new ability, kasumi creates a new kind of squad power to boot) personally i would love to see thane get some sort of melee takedown ability, even if he doesn't inviso-cloak like kasumi.

[Wonderllama4]

I think you should be able to use Pull or Throw regardless of armor or shield. but they shouldn't be able to be combined unless the armor or shield is completely gone

[KitsuneRommel]

Jackal904 wrote...

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Why do people never whine about the Sentinel having to shoot stuff, or the Engineer having to shoot stuff? Only the Adept, when it's just one of the three power-heavy classes.

Well I have never played as a sentinel or an engineer so I don't know what the gameplay with them is like. And the sentinel is supposed to be a jack of all trades. It's not supposed to solely rely in it's biotics.

Well Engineer is all about Overload (shields) and incinerate (when not) and occasionally using the Combat Drone. With Sentinel it's Overload and Warp instead. In Mass Effect 1 Sentinels didn't even have any Armor or Weapon training. They still spam few abilities but at least they can deal with shields effectively.

Anyway, in ME1 Adepts were way too overpowered and making Singularity work through shields and armor would make them a no-skill class in ME2 too (like it already is on Veteran and below).

[Jackal904]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Why do people never whine about the Sentinel having to shoot stuff, or the Engineer having to shoot stuff? Only the Adept, when it's just one of the three power-heavy classes.

Well I have never played as a sentinel or an engineer so I don't know what the gameplay with them is like. And the sentinel is supposed to be a jack of all trades. It's not supposed to solely rely in it's biotics.

Well Engineer is all about Overload (shields) and incinerate (when not) and occasionally using the Combat Drone. With Sentinel it's Overload and Warp instead.

Well that sounds boring. At least the sentinel has two defense-damaging abilities to allow them to be able use throw and cryoblast. But spamming abilities to take down defenses just isn't fun. Hopefully this supposed buff to biotics will help sentinels too (with throw), if it's an actual change to biotics and not just some armor that boosts biotic abilities (which would be lame).

I'd have to play as an engineer to get a better understanding of their gameplay, but they dont sound very fun.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

DanielJr wrote...

I can see why biotics would be blocked with biotic barriers or shields, but armor? Come on. I can probably go in a nerd tangent why that would be, but I don't feel like writing much at the moment. Let's just say that ARMOR is part of your suit, isn't it? Can't biotics manipulate any kind of matter, including suits? Armor isn't a kinetic barrier.

Element zero weaved into the armor, micro-gravimetric emitters (alters mass), etc. were all armor upgrades in ME1 that protected that user from tech/biotic attacks.

[lazuli]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

mrsph wrote...

I found adept to be very fun on insanity. But maybe I am just crazy and weird.

We obviously don't know what we're talking about; everybody here knows there's no way we could possibly do well, so it must be true.

How's that quote go?  "The successes of the few rebut the excuses of the many."?  Something like that.

Then let me join the "few."  Adepts do fine on Insanity with proper preparation and tactics.  Just like you can't lolspam your sniper rifle with an Infiltrator or Soldier on Insanity and expect to reliably kill things*, you can't lolspam crowd control Biotics with an Adept.  Use the tools given to you.


*You'll run out of thermal clips if you're not careful.  And yes, I know that one-shot kills are easy enough to do on Insanity.  But not without preparation (AR/Cloak + headshot, ammo power optional).

[sagefic]

that would be nice. just in time for an insanity run...

[Shotokanguy]

Those armor upgrades that people are mentioning in ME1 as a reason why armor could protect you from physics based attacks bring up a good point, but I still think they should just drop the armor bar in ME3 and let us actually choose to upgrade our armor with physics threshold increases.



That all goes back to the idea that we need more control over how we build our character in ME3.

[KitsuneRommel]

Jackal904 wrote...

Well that sounds boring. At least the sentinel has two defense-damaging abilities to allow them to be able use throw and cryoblast. But spamming abilities to take down defenses just isn't fun. Hopefully this supposed buff to biotics will help sentinels too (with throw), if it's an actual change to biotics and not just some armor that boosts biotic abilities (which would be lame).

I'd have to play as an engineer to get a better understanding of their gameplay, but they dont sound very fun.

If you play them without using your gun they are. At least the engineer can kill something without firing a gun unlike in ME1.

But I do agree that adepts get the short stick on insanity in ME2 but in ME1 Lift and Singularity made half of the game (including the end boss) utterly boring. Watching people float around with Immunities activated for ages got stupid fast.

[brfritos]

Jackal904 wrote...

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Why do people never whine about the Sentinel having to shoot stuff, or the Engineer having to shoot stuff? Only the Adept, when it's just one of the three power-heavy classes.

Well I have never played as a sentinel or an engineer so I don't know what the gameplay with them is like. And the sentinel is supposed to be a jack of all trades. It's not supposed to solely rely in it's biotics.

Well, this I can talk: most of my time I'm playing as an Engineer or Sentinel and I don't need hardly to shoot much, since I use my powers A LOT!

If you think, Sentinels have 30% global cooldown when maxed out the passive power, plus the 20% tech/biotic cooldown.
Thats 50% cutting in cooldowns!
Engineers have 20% global cooldowns when maxed out the passive power, plus the 20% tech cooldown.
If you have the Archon helmet you can put another 5%, but since this is payed content, let's stick only with the free ones.
You have more 40% cooldowns.

Why do I even need to think in using my gun?
This is only true when dealing with barriers, but even then you have alternatives.

So an engineer/sentinel is equiped with powers to strip most if of/any defenses of my enemies and have a stupid faster cooldown.
How an Adept deals with shields?
Sure, you can say anything you want about singularity, but in the end you will be shooting the damn thing.
And the majority of enemies in ME2 have shields/armor, not biotic barriers.

Warp works on armor too, but is no match for Incinerate.

For a class that is described as not needing guns to do his job, the Adept is a bit of a disappointment.

[Hulk Hsieh]

I still prefer they just tune the shockwave. It does stop enemies for a short time.

Improve it to knockdown or knockback with some raw damage will do the job,

[Hulk Hsieh]

brfritos wrote...
So an engineer/sentinel is equiped with powers to strip most if of/any defenses of my enemies and have a stupid faster cooldown.
How an Adept deals with shields?
Sure, you can say anything you want about singularity, but in the end you will be shooting the damn thing.
And the majority of enemies in ME2 have shields/armor, not biotic barriers.

Warp works on armor too, but is no match for Incinerate.

For a class that is described as not needing guns to do his job, the Adept is a bit of a disappointment.

Collectors in insanity get barriers and there's a lot of them.
What an engineer can do is to distract them with a drone, and to shoot them in the back.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...


But I do agree that adepts get the short stick on insanity in ME2 but in ME1 Lift and Singularity made half of the game (including the end boss) utterly boring. Watching people float around with Immunities activated for ages got stupid fast.

Singularity and warp explosions not in MAss Effect 2? And i use more then lift and singularity.Stasis and warp were also very usefull. The last power helps with the immunity bars...

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

Singularity and warp explosions not in MAss Effect 2? And i use more then lift and singularity.Stasis and warp were also very usefull. The last power helps with the immunity bars...

But you didn't really need anything else. I never used statis and only occasionally remembered to use warp. Why? Because neither of those floated a group of enemies in the air for 15 seconds. There's a reason why people never said how overpowered tech powers were.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

But you didn't really need anything else.

I liked to use stasis to stop rocket drones.Just one example. Only stasis work on flying enemies and had the longest duration of all biotics.

There's a reason why people never said how overpowered tech powers were.

Interesting. Because the only problem engineers had in Mass Effect are charging(more then one) enemies like krogans and rachni where the duration of damping and neuralshock could be not enough to keep them at bay(someone could ask if this is the role of the engineer anyway). Too stop a geth colossus from shooting was really powerfull if you ask me. To stop a group of biotics from using their stuff too. Sabotage was one of the best crowd control powers in Mass Effect.

Modifié par tonnactus, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:31 .

[Grand_Commander13]

The problem with tech in ME1 was that there was nothing it could do that biotics couldn't do, and better, short of make an enemy's shield bar slightly lower on an Overload. Enemies can't do much when they're floating in the air.

There was, however, plenty that biotics could do that tech couldn't do (namely disable a krogan without making him kill you, and deal with husks, creepers, and rachni).

EDIT: Honorable mention to AI Hacking though, being a lot more useful when your main enemies were synthetics.

Modifié par Grand_Commander13, 12 juillet 2010 - 09:44 .

[tonnactus]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

The problem with tech in ME1 was that there was nothing it could do that biotics couldn't do, and better, short of make an enemy's shield bar slightly lower on an Overload. Enemies can't do much when they're floating in the air.

Stop rocket drones/heavy rockets turrets(one hit kill) from shooting was something tech powers could do from the start. Hacking an armature or a geth juggernaut also was a great thing.And usefull.

There was, however, plenty that biotics could do that tech couldn't do (namely disable a krogan without making him kill you, and deal with husks, creepers, and rachni).

One krogan was never a problem with damping and neuralshock.More then one because of their broken immunity.But crowd control was the job of biotics anyway.Not techs.

[Mendelevosa]

Allowing biotics to affect armored and shielded targets with reduced effectiveness would be a good idea. But Bioware needs to bring back Stasis. That alone would be helpful for biotics.

[Jackal904]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Allowing biotics to affect armored and shielded targets with reduced effectiveness would be a good idea. But Bioware needs to bring back Stasis. That alone would be helpful for biotics.

I would love to get stasis back. Even though the other biotic abilities were better, statis was just such a kool ability, but only if you were able to damage them while an enemy was in stasis. It would be much better in ME2 because the other abiltities won't completely outshine stasis like they did in ME1.

[Tin Soldier]

A few things.
Infiltrators can only get Armor Piercing Ammo as a bonus talent.
Engineers have no powers that do bonus damage to Barriers.
Tech Mastery and Biotic Mastery have the same recharge bonuses.
Guardian Sentinels have, I believe, the best recharge in the game.
Raider Sentinels have the same recharge as Engineers and Adepts.

[Jackal904]

Tin Soldier wrote...

Raider Sentinels have the same recharge as Engineers and Adepts.

Well damn, you might as well just play as a sentinel instead of an adept then. Their abilities recharge at the same rate, but the sentinel has two abilities to take out defenses, then just use throw or cryo blast once the enemy's health is exposed.

[Grand_Commander13]

1) No Pull (Cryo Blast is only a partial substitute).

2) No Singularity.