92 réponses à ce sujet

[Challseus]

- since the graphics are being updated with a new visual style, does that mean it's using a new engine, not compatible with the existing one? I'm thinking porting things over like levels, items, face morphs, etc.

- if I was creating a series of modules, would players be able to take that save game at the end of the DA1 module and apply it to a DA2 module?

I'm really floored at the moment, and I am missing like 90% of the concerns out there, so please, someone else fill in the missing gaps

But essentially, my conern is this: am I wasting my time making this DA1 module? I'm in this for the long haul (regarding my module series), but at the same time, I want to stick with what's new. If something new is coming out in like 9 months that won't be compatiable with what I'm working on now, I may have to re-think my strategies a bit.

I know it's early in the process, but any scraps of info you could give to the modding community would be great.

Modifié par Challseus, 08 juillet 2010 - 03:15 .

[gtr201]

Yeah I second this. If there isn't any cross over between DA:O and DA2 then I'm going to want to scale back what I'm working on for DA:O. Not stop modding, just keep some of my bigger ideas in reserve.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I hope it's on the same engine, I think it'd be a ton of work for them to change the engine at this point.



We'll find out soon enough I guess, once we see some gameplay screens/footage it should be pretty clear.

[-Semper-]

well, if there will be any form of toolset for da2 then i think the modding community for dragon age will be ripped apart and the mods for da1 will slowly die. bioware's support for the toolset right now is called horrible at best - imagine if there are two different editors waiting for patches -.-

i don't think that the toolset will be compatible with the updated eclipse engine. i don't think there will be a toolset for dragon age 2 at all. anyway i have a bad feeling about the lifespan of the whole modding community.

it will be at the same core engine, but updated.

Modifié par -Semper-, 08 juillet 2010 - 07:42 .

[CID-78]

I think it will be like when people moved from NWN to NWN2. you can pull certain things such as scripts and dialogue but need to startover/remake/adjust most of the graphical. and since it's unlikley that we get the same resources this time around. you should simply finish what you are working on. if da2 is released before your done, give it a spin. and decide if you want to use it for your next project.

[BlackyBlack]

I doubt there'll even be a toolset released

[Sunjammer]

The problem with the "finish what you are working on" approach is that unless you are going to do so imminently there will be no one around to play your module/campaign when you do finish it. Moreover it is unlikely your team would be able to participate in any DA2 Toolset Beta (they would be too busy with their DA:O project) and they may be late in starting any DA2 project you might have planned.

In any event I'm hoping that the DA2 Toolset is an evolution rather than a revolution and has a degree of compatibility: if it uses a MS SQL Server backbone again or has a similar XML-based B2B feature then there is a good chance that we can create utilities to migrate resources from DA:O to DA2. Here's hoping!

Modifié par Sunjammer, 08 juillet 2010 - 08:31 .

[CID-78]

well you can go two ways with that. if you keep switching development enviroment you will never get anything out, if your development cycle is longer then the time before new game releases.



besides getting the product out is secondary, the primary is that you enjoy working with the tool and even if it never leaves your hard drive it's not been a complete loss.

[tmp7704]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

I hope it's on the same engine, I think it'd be a ton of work for them to change the engine at this point.

We'll find out soon enough I guess, once we see some gameplay screens/footage it should be pretty clear.

One of early interviews they had after the DA:O launch have stated they're reworking their engine rather heavily since there was plenty complaints about the graphics of the first game.

Whether that means the older assets are no longer usable is hard to tell. Given when they plan to release the sequel it's pretty crazy to think they'd attempt to redo the engine *and* the content but then you never know.

We may get a better idea once the screenshots from GI are available and/or the official trailer launches next month, but until then some dev comment on that would be great, for sure.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:12 .

[Sunjammer]

CID-78 wrote...

well you can go two ways with that. if you keep switching development enviroment you will never get anything out,
if your development cycle is longer then the time before new game releases.

besides getting the product out is secondary, the primary is that you enjoy working with the tool and even if it never
leaves your hard drive it's not been a complete loss.

You do realise that your second statement actually justifies the behaviour you appear to be criticising in your first?

Regardless while some might be satisfied by the toolset alone, others (myself included) want to tell a story and want other people to enjoy a new module/campaign.

That said we are heading off-topic as this thread is about how DA2 is going to affect modders. Hopefully BioWare won't wait too long before providing some clarification.

Modifié par Sunjammer, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:49 .

[ChewyGumball]

As far as I can tell a mesh is a mesh and a texture is a texture. I can't see it being impossible (or even challenging) to create a converter for most of the graphical assets. Things like item variations or creature files probably would need to be redone depending on the amount of change, but a mesh is a mesh and a pixel is a pixel no matter what engine you are using.



As for levels, that depends entirely on the changes made. It may be possible to convert but if they are adding new features or modifying old ones you would still need to make sure its what you want before going further.

[tmp7704]

ChewyGumball wrote...

As far as I can tell a mesh is a mesh and a texture is a texture. I can't see it being impossible (or even challenging) to create a converter for most of the graphical assets. Things like item variations or creature files probably would need to be redone depending on the amount of change, but a mesh is a mesh and a pixel is a pixel no matter what engine you are using.

I was thinking rather in terms of old assets becoming obsolete because the change in quality making the old stuff stick out like sore thumb. Something like transition from ME1 to ME2, for example:

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Indeed with the new art style change, it may mean that they will be making (atleast partially) new assets.



I'd expect the textures to change, but they may very well use the same models. Depends on how the new style ends up looking.

[ladydesire]

Just because there were graphics changes they shouldn't force model changes, unless they changed the underlying model, like when going from NWN to NWN2. If it didn't require a visible model in game, it was still usable in NWN2.

[tmp7704]

ladydesire wrote...

Just because there were graphics changes they shouldn't force model changes, unless they changed the underlying model, like when going from NWN to NWN2. If it didn't require a visible model in game, it was still usable in NWN2.

It depends; if there's a noticeable change in the style of the graphics, it may make old stuff look out of place. For a drastic example consider "WoW style" (well, Warhammer style really but that's more recognizable) having buildings with normal proportions would look plain weird next to that.

(this is regarding "models" in the sense of "textured 3d mesh", If it's just items in game then yes that's different though can in turn be affected by changes in the game mechanics. Guess we'll have to see about that too)

[CID-78]

Sunjammer wrote...

CID-78 wrote...

well you can go two ways with that. if you keep switching development enviroment you will never get anything out,
if your development cycle is longer then the time before new game releases.

besides getting the product out is secondary, the primary is that you enjoy working with the tool and even if it never
leaves your hard drive it's not been a complete loss.

You do realise that your second statement actually justifies the behaviour you appear to be criticising in your first?

Regardless while some might be satisfied by the toolset alone, others (myself included) want to tell a story and want other people to enjoy a new module/campaign.

That said we are heading off-topic as this thread is about how DA2 is going to affect modders. Hopefully BioWare won't wait too long before providing some clarification.

Yes if you feel that you must work with the latest one. but you can continue enjoy the old one right. So the second statement is for both. depending on how much you value release. you either lose potential players or you won't get all you want into the project.

but back to topic. I have a feeling that DA2, will be more along the line morrowind to oblivion. it will use a slightly changed toolset but remain the same in most parts. we are talking about the same development company and more and less the same development team. it doesn't make sense to throw it all out. especially since they didn't have that much time inbetween the game releases.

[Fen Tabris]

In either case we don't have confirmation that toolset will also be reworked as part of DA2, do we? I'm sure we remember that our first toolset took a significant amount of elbow grease and a little time after the game release itself to get working. Add in the fact that we as essentially independents have a much longer dev cycle than professional, and we're talking even assuming DA2 comes out, and a working toolset ships with it (PC only, of course), and the community does embrace the new tools quickly - we've seen far less actual content from DA than we have from NWN 1 or 2 in similar timespan, maybe due to community changes, maybe due to a different learning curve and focus on modularity.

I would guess that knowing the methods from toolset will translate into faster learning on "toolset 2", when (if) such a tool is made. It isn't Bioware's or any other company's responsibility to make such a tool, I really think that they did it so that we as players would have an avenue to learn the elements of the game we're playing and have the ability to tell our own stories (albeit with a little computer know-how thrown in).

Modifié par Fen Tabris, 09 juillet 2010 - 09:21 .

[CID-78]

the toolset is what they make the game with. so there will be a da toolset 2.0, the question is if it will go public.

[Fen Tabris]

CID-78 wrote...

the toolset is what they make the game with. so there will be a da toolset 2.0, the question is if it will go public.

Fair enough. We don't know if the toolset will be made available to us. :innocent: Besides, they could be using toolset 1.0 with better models and animations (though I doubt it too).

[FergusM]

I have to say I'm a little concerned. It depends on how Bioware handles it; it could be a fantastic bundle of new functionality and assets or a slamming of the mod community's collective head in a car door.

[JasonNH]

Especially since my fingers are still a little raw from them rolling up the window on them.

[Eshme]

There is possibility that file formats dont change dramatically, which can mean external tools are available far quicker when you only do slight changes.

I also mean the xml formats of models and animation ,and a converter to make it binary. If the xml were gone ,i dont know if i could do this then.

[m4x1mus]

I think Bioware are taking the mass effect route with DA2, and so it is unlikely the game will be as moddable as the first. It doesn't really matter about the sequel anyway. Look at Morrowind: the game has been out for 8 years, and mods are still being pumped out, despite the modding success of its successor!

The DA:O engine is hardly inadequate, and the toolset is versatile, so why would you need worry about the next game?

[ladydesire]

m4x1mus wrote...

I think Bioware are taking the mass effect route with DA2, and so it is unlikely the game will be as moddable as the first. It doesn't really matter about the sequel anyway. Look at Morrowind: the game has been out for 8 years, and mods are still being pumped out, despite the modding success of its successor!
The DA:O engine is hardly inadequate, and the toolset is versatile, so why would you need worry about the next game?

Other than a few things that are similar (fixed race of main character and voiced main character), I don't see how it won't be as moddable as DA; Bioware already proved that it's possible to do PC VO with the latest DLC, so I don't see them changing the game that drastically.

[-Semper-]

ladydesire wrote...

Bioware already proved that it's possible to do PC VO with the latest DLC, so I don't see them changing the game that drastically.

they sacrificed options and dulled the dialogues just to get the lines voiced. now the dlc was just a 3 hour adventure, think about what will happen to 60h game - it has to be shortened drastically