92 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

I think the Toolset itself will actually be compatible or at least not changed very much from the current version -- they may be tweaking graphics and/or content but messing much with the underlying structure of the game and/or trying to significantly change the game-making tool with such short timeframe they're giving themselves... that's like recipe for disaster.

[-Semper-]

it's not that hard to push the unreal engine 3 down to a medievel setting

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Well from the tiny screenshot that was posted in the DA2 general discussion the engine does indeed look the same.

[ladydesire]

Anyone here see that they've abandoned the current dialog system for one like ME had? That kills any interest I may have had in DA2.

[-Semper-]

as we doomsayer said: it will get mainstreamed to death

[DLAN_Immortality]

I think the only mods we'll see will be graphic changes.

Voiced Hawke will make it utter sh*t for a modder to make anything decent in the main campaign, like if fully voiced NPCs were not difficult enough.

Hopefully we'll be able to see new stand alone campaigns, but then again, that will be a long time after the game's release.

I don't think DA2 will be friendly for modders who are interested in more than "naked Hawke". Y'know what I mean.



EDIT: Yes, and also what LadyDesire rightfully pointed out. I also doubt there'll be a toolset. :-)

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:24 .

[Sunjammer]

I certainly don't think it will help our cause if everyone has written off DA2 modding before we actually know anything. Leliana's Song demonstrated that the current toolset can handle the new style conversations. Therefore it is possible that all BioWare has changes is the GUI and the addition of some new mark up tags for the various tones. Moreover the new conversation system may provide greater freedom: for example it eleminates the recommended "65 character limit" (or actual ~90 character limt) for PC dialogue lines.

Anyway getting back on topic I think the following scenarios are possible:

1. No DA2 Toolset, No DA:O Compatability: BioWare does not release a new DA2 Toolset because the DA:O modding community never gained sufficient momentum. Those of us wishing to create characters and/or campaigns for Dragon Age world must continue to do so using the original toolset and engine. Anyone wishing to mod DA2 has to pull out their trusty hex editor and do it the old fashioned way.

2. No DA2 Toolset, Full DA:O Compatability: BioWare does not release a new DA2 Toolset to the community beause there's isn't one! DA2 was created using an updated version of the DA:O toolset. A patch, new database, new resources and new files are made available to update the current toolset. Now simply by switching the source database/game build or perhaps just using different export process we can work on mods for both DA:O and DA2 in the same toolset.

3. New DA2 Toolset, Some DA:O Compatability: BioWare releases the new DA2 Toolset to the community. It is similar in terms of features but an entirely seperate application. Fortunately because it uses the same/similar database schema and/or file formats we are able to port much of our DA:O work into the new toolset. Both toolsets can exist side by side and we can work on mods for both DA:O and DA2.

4. New DA2 Toolset, No DA:O compatability: BioWare releases the new DA2 Toolset to the community. It is similar in terms of features but an entirely seperate application. Unfortunately the various "enhancements" to the graphics engine, game engine, resources, UI, etc. mean that we are unable to port any of our DA:O work into the new toolset. Still both toolsets can exist side by side so we can work on mods for both DA:O and DA2.

Assuming that there is a DA2 Toolset my main concerns will be how similar/different it is to the DA:O Toolset and the extent of the support BioWare will actually provide (and whether or not it will again evaporate without explanation after two months).

Modifié par Sunjammer, 10 juillet 2010 - 04:27 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

On the plus side, I wouldn't be surprised if that long awaited toolset update comes out with the 1.04 patch.



At the very least, I hope we finally get the Awakening source files.

[Tikigod60]

Well to be fair, look at the last time the Toolkit was updated compared to the list of various 'features' in it that are left to be resolved, I think the answer to how Dragon Age 2 effects modders is already somewhat answered.

Wouldn't surprise me if the current toolkit is dropped in favour of revamped one about the same time as DA2 is close to release, rather than the current one being 'patched'.

Modifié par Tikigod60, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:04 .

[indio]

I'll keep plugging away, but it's a real concern that so few standalone mods are being released. Additions to the DA campaign are ok, but where are the modules that can be played in a different setting? Or from level 1? It's all a little disappointing, and the new game which may or may not have a new toolset, which may or may not allow content transfer etc etc just adds to the ongoing disappointment. Sounding like a downer, but making modules ain't what it used to be.

[-Semper-]

that's also a fault by bioware. the support for the toolset dropped to zero. there are no news, no words about a patch, no updated eclipseray, no killed bugs.... absolutely nothing. one year ago they promised all of that to us. sadly there are bugs which have heavy impact on the modding community (m2da, eclipseray, talktables) and stop almost every effort.

[ladydesire]

-Semper- wrote...

sadly there are
bugs which have heavy impact on the modding community (
m2da, eclipseray, talktables) and stop almost every effort.

My hack workaround for cla_base seems stable, but I'm probably the only modder that even knows of it at the moment. I also believe the one talktable bug I know of was fixed before support evaporated.

[Sunjammer]

indio wrote...

I'll keep plugging away, but it's a real concern that so few standalone mods are being released. Additions to the DA campaign are ok, but where are the modules that can be played in a different setting?

There are a few standalone modules in progress that have a realistic chance of being released before DA2. However I think the teams developing them are currently trying to determine what the best course of action might be. The lack of information on a DA2 toolset (whether new or upgraded) obviously doesn't help and means we are currently in limbo.

If there isn't a DA2 toolset then we have a choice of continuing in DA:O or abandoning our projects in protest.

If there is a DA2 toolset then we have the choice of continuing in DA:O (avoids any redevelopment, may have to miss any beta, smaller audience, possible delayed start for DA2 project) or migrating to DA2 (possible extensive redevelopment, available for beta, largest possible audience, head start on DA2 project).

[-Semper-]

ladydesire wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

sadly there are
bugs which have heavy impact on the modding community (
m2da, eclipseray, talktables) and stop almost every effort.

My hack workaround for cla_base seems stable, but I'm probably the only modder that even knows of it at the moment. I also believe the one talktable bug I know of was fixed before support evaporated.

your "hack" (whatever it is) won't solve the problem of the high id (all above 254 won't get recognized by the game), does it? talktables don't work at all. you have to use an external tool by anakin5 to get past the biggest problems. if you don't use this tool not a single exported resource will get translated. but that's a problem no english user ever encounters and therefore it is very unpopular, but reported.

the wiki page for the toolset is full of bugs - some of them already got recognized by bioware. personally i don't believe that there ever will be a patch for the toolset.

Modifié par -Semper-, 12 juillet 2010 - 03:30 .

[indio]

Sunjammer wrote...

indio wrote...

I'll keep plugging away, but it's a real concern that so few standalone mods are being released. Additions to the DA campaign are ok, but where are the modules that can be played in a different setting?

There are a few standalone modules in progress that have a realistic chance of being released before DA2. However I think the teams developing them are currently trying to determine what the best course of action might be. The lack of information on a DA2 toolset (whether new or upgraded) obviously doesn't help and means we are currently in limbo.

If there isn't a DA2 toolset then we have a choice of continuing in DA:O or abandoning our projects in protest.

If there is a DA2 toolset then we have the choice of continuing in DA:O (avoids any redevelopment, may have to miss any beta, smaller audience, possible delayed start for DA2 project) or migrating to DA2 (possible extensive redevelopment, available for beta, largest possible audience, head start on DA2 project).

I'm sorry to hear it. I'm starting to wish the D&D license wasn't in the courts and we had a platform on which to reliably develop. Nothing about DA buulding has ever seemed quite right, and it's not improving.

[ladydesire]

[quote]-Semper- wrote...

your "hack" (whatever it is) won't solve the problem of the
high id (all above 254 won't get recognized by the game),
does it?[/quote]

No, but the reason I need to use it is the same.

[quote] talktables don't work at all. you have to use an
external tool by anakin5 to get past the biggest problems. if
you don't use this tool not a single exported resource will get
translated. but that's a problem no english user ever
encounters and therefore it is very unpopular, but reported.[/
quote]

Not good; I was wanting to translate my class pack for foreign
users of Dragon Age.

[-Semper-]

you can try out the flag patcher by anakin5. if it doesn't work with your resources you could pm anakin. he's very kind and i think he will definitely help you

Modifié par -Semper-, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:32 .

[wil23]

So, being someone who was thinking about starting to develop a stand-alone module the consensus would be: Don't.



?

[Hel]

Double post that cannot be deleted... <_<

Modifié par Helekanalaith, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:14 .

[Hel]

This post by David Gaider leads me believe that DA2 will still use the same game engine, not that the screenshots weren’t a giveaway in the first place.

Assuming that the engine on which DA2 runs is the same as Origins’, one could start to make a whole lot of presumptions. Have they updated the lighting engine, fixed the outstanding bugs, implemented a day-night cycle system, added new art assets, etcetera. The question, however, remains the same: will we get any of these new toys to play with or will they keep them behind doors  –  leaving us to our own devices with the current toolset?

I for one will wait and see; eight months isn't that far off... and Summer has started, we'll get there eventually.

Modifié par Helekanalaith, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:21 .

[ladydesire]

Helekanalaith wrote...

This post by David Gaider leads me believe that DA2 will still use the game engine, not that the screenshots weren’t a giveaway in the first place.

Assuming that the engine on which DA2 runs is the same as Origins’, one could start to make a whole lot of presumptions. Have they updated the lighting engine, fixed the outstanding bugs, implemented a day-night cycle system, added new art assets, etcetera. The question, however, remains the same: will we get any of these new toys to play with or will they keep them behind doors  –  leaving us to our own devices with the current toolset?

I for one will wait and see; eight months isn't that far off... and Summer has started, we'll get there eventually.

It's not likely we will get a day/night cycle unless they toss out the lightmapping part of the level building system, which I doubt they've done.

[Mengtzu]

Sunjammer wrote...
If there isn't a DA2 toolset then we have a choice of continuing in DA:O or abandoning our projects in protest.

If there is a DA2 toolset then we have the choice of continuing in DA:O (avoids any redevelopment, may have to miss any beta, smaller audience, possible delayed start for DA2 project) or migrating to DA2 (possible extensive redevelopment, available for beta, largest possible audience, head start on DA2 project).

Either way there's also the option of cutting features to deliver sooner.  Even if there's no DA2 toolset there'll be a decent population excited for Dragon Age as DA2 approaches - they'll be a good audience.  Getting something out for them will be worthwhile even if we're then obliged to move on to the Starcraft 2 editor or what have you.

Say what you like about my modules for heavy reuse of Bioware content and lack of voice, their gameplay-to-development-time ratio is very high.  Obviously reuse isn't practical for everyone, but I'm sure most teams could figure out some compromises that would let them deliver a quality, worthwhile product before March.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

wil23 wrote...

So, being someone who was thinking about starting to develop a stand-alone module the consensus would be: Don't.

?

I wouldn't say that. (Of course I took a prolonged hiatus from the community, so I may be out of touch with some of the issues)

There's still plenty of enjoyment to be had in making it, and plenty of people to play it and enjoy it themselves.

There's just a few annoying limitations that need to be addressed. (it'd also be nice to get the Awakening and some of the DLC content in the Toolset proper. (Like the Return to Ostagar and Honnleath areas)

[ladydesire]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...


(Like the Return to Ostagar and Honnleath areas)

Won't happen; Bioware never did this in Neverwinter Nights, even though a lot of the Premium Module content did eventually get patched in.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

ladydesire wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...


(Like the Return to Ostagar and Honnleath areas)

Won't happen; Bioware never did this in Neverwinter Nights, even though a lot of the Premium Module content did eventually get patched in.

Yeah I'm not too optimistic on  it happening, but it'd be nice.