180 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

snakepunk wrote...

Less options = less depth = more people playing = profit.

One could easily make an argument that there is more depth in the story telling when the character is not so variable.

[Dave of Canada]

the_one_54321 wrote...
The Witcher is a great example of mixing the writing with some player choices. The players has some options, but the character is pre-determined and there are some things about him that you can't change. I thought that went pretty well.

Mass Effect as well, you're making the choices for Commander Shepard but his entire storyline is preset and he'll always be on the 'main' story. I wouldn't be surprised if this game worked the same.

[Lord_Saulot]

People want options because that is what Origins was sold on to a large degree (the multiple origins which appear in the game's title), and in a sequel people usually want what attracted them in the first product.



In my case, options are not too important to me, and I am more interested in the setting and style of the game - as long as those are maintained, I will be interested.

[Elhanan]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...
It's an RPG. Options are the entire point of the genre.

Well sure, I'll grant that in a lot of ways they are. But full character customization? What about specific plot elements? DA:O had a number of very static plot elements that you could only manipulate marginally.

Howdy!

If by Good vs Evilesque customization, I believe this may be needed for the CRPG genre . I rather dislike playing Evil myself, and would be loathe to be forced to play it. And I am fairly certain folks with the perm Black Hats would grumble at playing some rainbow and hope heroine.

But if you wish good solid writing of character development, I have seen no better example in the CRPG than DAO. I know I am biased because of my past Bioware ties, but DAO has me exploring the Warden as the ever evolving supporting character to the best solid cast of chareacters experienced in a game.

Or did I miss the driod you were looking for?

[Brockololly]

It depends on the types of options.

The whole "being stuck as human" thing doesn't bother me too much. The Origins were neat but if they can make the game more in depth and reactive to "Hawke" and his background then thats a good thing.

But as for customization goes- its an important part of actually RPing a character. I enjoyed the Witcher, but never felt anything for Geralt since its like Shepard in ME- you're just kind of guiding a pre-determined character along their path. The player isn't actually in control of the PC.

With DAO at least, you're given a fixed background, but with the Origins you had choice. And with the non voiced PC, what you said was actually what you said- it wasn't approximations like ME. I really hope they don't voice the PC like ME though as that seriously kills the immersion in my eyes.

Any game with a plot is going to have certain fixed Plot Hammer moments where the plot has to move forward. Thats a given- it just depends on how heavy handed the writers and devs are in throwing the plot at the player's face.

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 juillet 2010 - 04:27 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Swoo wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You know, good writers write their best when they are allowed some freedom to write what they wish. "Options" are like a choke chain on them that cuts them off when their creativity takes them anywhere that is solid or concrete.

Great attempt at trolling or someone who needs to stick to Halo? I'm undecided.

Niether. I'm quite serious. What exactly is so great about having a customizable character in every game? Would it kill people to just let the writers do the writing once in a while? 

Although, with the maturity level of most of the responses so far, I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of breath. Is anyone going to actually respond with why they think the customization is so important, or is going to be the usual spam that fills things up around here? 

Customization is important atleast for a Dragon Age game (I'll give you that the Witcher is a great example of a game without customization that is still an amazing RPG) because Dragon Age was all about "Your story".  It was meant to be a very personalized experience through which Origin you picked, your actions in the game world (there are many points in the game where people respond differently to you, referring to your gender, actions and what not) had an effect on how people interacted with you.  You chose from a select few classes and chose how you wanted to play those classes from there and it only makes sense from that point that your character should be customizable to add another layer to this personally tailored experience.

Removing this element almost entirely at this point by removing the origin stories (arguably one of the best and most innovative features in dragon age), race choice and more than likely a dumbed down inventory/combat system. I'll give Bioware the benefit of the doubt here and say they're not stupid to stray completely from what fans liked about DA:O for the console market... but I haven't seen much to the contrary thusfar with DA2. (Especially after seeing that you're a "Lowly farmer becomes hero of the land" when the Origins in Dragon Age were designed to not be such a generic start to your adventure... they're doing a complete 180 there)

[twincast]

Why? Because whilst BioWare may be primarily known for story-telling, options come in a close second and Origins' origins raised the bar considerably and this is supposed to be a sequel to it.



Personally, I'm not all up in arms over not being able to play an elf, but if this Fable Effect II also shrinks in size down to ME levels, BioWare and I will part ways after the conclusion of the ME trilogy. Considering the decade-long plot and the DA team's resume I'm not really worried about it, but I've been burned by the ME team too often already.

[the_one_54321]

Mentatzoee wrote...
I've got nothing against closed characters. It's just it's not what I ask a RPG to be. If I wanted that, as someone above me said, I'd play a jRPG, so I'd get the chance to play with numbers without really caring about the charas.

I guess this much can be chalked up to simple differences in outlook, but I've never had trouble really caring about characters that I didn't create. There've even been times when I cared about some characers much more than other characters I created.
I'm thinking more along the lines of the story that get's written here. The DM example is great. A DM is always present and can change the game to fit the characters as the game goes along. But a writer can't do something like that in a video game. It's as still someone else said above, it's difficult to really create a core story line that is meaningful and poignant when you have to wrap it around something that is variable.

[Paromlin]

Anyway, why would I want to play some "Hawke"? I want to play my character, I want him/her to feel like my creation - that inculdes naming the character. I don't want others to refer to my character as some "Hawke", for instance.
It's not about extreme customisation. It's the basics I'd say.

Sadly, Bioware started losing it years ago and began to transform every rpg into their story (which is the signature of books and movies) with little to no player input and story freedom. That's the problem. I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

This is Commander Hawke calling! I'm here to save the gal.., I mean, Thedas! 

[Creelers]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Swoo wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You know, good writers write their best when they are allowed some freedom to write what they wish. "Options" are like a choke chain on them that cuts them off when their creativity takes them anywhere that is solid or concrete.

Great attempt at trolling or someone who needs to stick to Halo? I'm undecided.

Niether. I'm quite serious. What exactly is so great about having a customizable character in every game? Would it kill people to just let the writers do the writing once in a while? 

Although, with the maturity level of most of the responses so far, I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of breath. Is anyone going to actually respond with why they think the customization is so important, or is going to be the usual spam that fills things up around here? 

Because then we can create our own unique character and create a sort of bond with them and feel like we actually are them creating a better gaming experience where the choice we make actually affects more than just the game.

Modifié par Creelers, 08 juillet 2010 - 04:32 .

[Nhadalie]

Part of the issue is that Bioware started off the Dragon Age series with so many options. If it had started like say.. Mass Effect even, where the options are a bit smaller and less shown throughout the game, people would be expecting the sequal to be the same as the first game. Or any of those very linear story based RPGs.(Perhaps like Planescape Torment too.)


Options give you the chance to create your own story for a character. Which is one of the best things about RPGs, I think personally. And many people here seem to agree. The options let your build your own character, make stories up for them in your head, and add so much more enjoyment to a game.


That's not to say that limited options aren't enjoyable too. But when you come to expect the options, many people will be upset when there are less options.(Look at how they changed the dialogue system between DA:O and Awakening. People had a fit because you didn't have as many options to interact with the companions.)

Personally, I'm a little disappointed that you can't play as a different race, or have different origins. But I'll get over it.(I won't have a fit unless I can't play as a female character. Which is just my preference, since well.. I'm female, and I can connect to it easier.)

Modifié par Nhadalie, 08 juillet 2010 - 04:33 .

[Majin Paul]

As long as I can create the appearance, gender and first name, I'm happy. So far they've only limited the race, which is one of the many customisable character traits, there are still plenty that so far have remained.

[DadeLeviathan]

Paromlin wrote...
I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

No, it takes skill. Talent, maybe, but mostly skill. Writing is a craft.

I'm not as worried with not being able to name my character. After in real life I didn't name myself, my parents did. I wasn't able to choose who my father or mother are, or who my brothers and sisters are.

My argument with options is that the player needs to have as many as are possible while keeping those choices meaningful. While I still prefer choices in who you can be in terms of race, the choices that are most important are your actions. A linear storyline in a game doesn't mean you have no choices in that story. Honestly, with the obsession on non-linear storylines, I'd like to see a good linear storyline RPG.

Modifié par DadeLeviathan, 08 juillet 2010 - 04:34 .

[the_one_54321]

Elhanan wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...
It's an RPG. Options are the entire point of the genre.

Well sure, I'll grant that in a lot of ways they are. But full character customization? What about specific plot elements? DA:O had a number of very static plot elements that you could only manipulate marginally.

Howdy!

If by Good vs Evilesque customization, I believe this may be needed for the CRPG genre . I rather dislike playing Evil myself, and would be loathe to be forced to play it. And I am fairly certain folks with the perm Black Hats would grumble at playing some rainbow and hope heroine.

But if you wish good solid writing of character development, I have seen no better example in the CRPG than DAO. I know I am biased because of my past Bioware ties, but DAO has me exploring the Warden as the ever evolving supporting character to the best solid cast of chareacters experienced in a game.

Or did I miss the driod you were looking for?

Hi Elhanan!
No, you got more or less the right line of thought, even amongst this hive of scum and villiany.
Question though. But what if the writer was able to take you along an exploration and evolution of character that was based on your actions in the game, but not based on you designing the character? 

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Paromlin wrote...

Anyway, why would I want to play some "Hawke"? I want to play my character, I want him/her to feel like my creation - that inculdes naming the character. I don't want others to refer to my character as some "Hawke", for instance.
It's not about extreme customisation. It's the basics I'd say.

Sadly, Bioware started losing it years ago and began to transform every rpg into their story (which is the signature of books and movies) with little to no player input and story freedom. That's the problem. I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

This is Commander Hawke calling! I'm here to save the gal.., I mean, Thedas! 

So you were not fine with your character in Origins having a preset last name? I mean Hawke isn't much different than having Cousland as a last name.

[UltimaFullmetal]

This game will be unplayable unless it has humans, elves, dwarfs, asari, krogan, turians, and hanar. I must also have to be able to wrap my hanar tentacles around a sweaty man-elf as one of 60 romance options.



But seriously, I'm sure Bioware will try to make up for lack of races with more class customization/origins. And i cannot recall a Bioware game without romance options.

[TMZuk]

Paromlin wrote...

Because it's not a book or tv film, it's an rpg.

QFT!!

[the_one_54321]

I liked this question that I asked Elhanan, so I'm going to repeat it.



But what if the writer was able to take you along an exploration and evolution of character that was based on your actions in the game, but not based on you designing the character?

[Lintanis]

At least we now know the endings of origins dont mean anything

[Paromlin]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

No, it takes skill. Talent, maybe, but mostly skill. Writing is a craft.

I'm not as worried with not being able to name my character. After in real life I didn't name myself, my parents did. I wasn't able to choose who my father or mother are, or who my brothers and sisters are.

Oh, thanks god you corrected the wording. I wouldn't know what to do if someone hadn't pointed out that a writer doesn't need to be talented to write a non linear story with a character of the player's choice and that it's all about skill and practice instead!

RPGs are not real life and Bioware is not my father/mother so I want to name my character instead of them

And don't get me started why non-linear rpgs are better on so many levels, because it won't stop.

[the_one_54321]

You really don't know that yet. The opening of this game could be based on how the last game ended. Maybe not. Maybe so. No way to tell yet.

[DadeLeviathan]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I liked this question that I asked Elhanan, so I'm going to repeat it.

But what if the writer was able to take you along an exploration and evolution of character that was based on your actions in the game, but not based on you designing the character?

That's how it's done most of the time. Planescape: Torment did it that way, and it did it marvelously. If there is a reason to cut out character creation, it needs to be a good one, ala Planescape: Torment or The Witcher. But at the same time, you want the player to feel a connection to his character that will help immersion. If you can do that by having a static PC, then so be it.

[Batman90]

You know, I don't care too much about options in Dragon Age: 2, because allocating less of their resources in to multiple origins/options/playable races/whatever can open up the possibility for more robust other types of content (A longer, more intricate campaign, more complex sidequests, mini-games, etc.).

HOWEVER, since the first Dragon Age did feature multiple choices, the burden falls upon BioWare to make the players feel as if their choices in the first game mattered, because they decided to design the game that way in the first place. I will be immensely disappointed if there isn't some sort of "save transfer," not in the way that your character is carried over, but in the way that your big choices from the first game are referenced to in some way in the sequel. Maybe Hawke could overhear a couple of dwarves talking about King Bhelen or King Harrowmont, or whatever. Even minor nods like that would satisfy me.

If I wanted that I would buy FF-CCCV (Spoiler: Your main character is an angsty teenager. The story deals with "growing up")

Yeah, and the vast majority of WRPG plots consist of Tolkien rip-offs with knights who speak in "ye olde English."

Don't be a fanboy; you know damn well WRPG story-telling has just as many cliches and flaws as JRPG story-telling does.

Modifié par Batman90, 08 juillet 2010 - 04:46 .

[Paromlin]

Solostran85 wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

Anyway, why would I want to play some "Hawke"? I want to play my character, I want him/her to feel like my creation - that inculdes naming the character. I don't want others to refer to my character as some "Hawke", for instance.
It's not about extreme customisation. It's the basics I'd say.

Sadly, Bioware started losing it years ago and began to transform every rpg into their story (which is the signature of books and movies) with little to no player input and story freedom. That's the problem. I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

This is Commander Hawke calling! I'm here to save the gal.., I mean, Thedas! 

So you were not fine with your character in Origins having a preset last name? I mean Hawke isn't much different than having Cousland as a last name.

I wasn't.
Bioware even had a lame excuse for (the majority of) those surnames - "technical difficulties". lulz