180 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Paromlin wrote...
And don't get me started why non-linear rpgs are better on so many levels, because it won't stop.

You do realize that there was a strictly linear main plot to DA:O right? I mean, it wasn't "technically" linear, but you had a specific start (Ostagar) and a specific end (killing the arch demon). All the other stuff was of coures part of what made the game great, but don't discount the main story writting that's in there.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I liked this question that I asked Elhanan, so I'm going to repeat it.

But what if the writer was able to take you along an exploration and evolution of character that was based on your actions in the game, but not based on you designing the character?

Seems similar to how The Witcher worked; with Geralt recovering his past by being forced to decide who he is in the world.

Unfortunately, Bioware is not CD Projeckt and in their games you're either a huge **** (although pragmatic) or a really nice guy (whose a raging idealist).  I don't expect Bioware to suddenly develop a new sense of ambiguous morality, and while potentially the idea of your character evolving through the storyline is a good one I don't think Bioware will be able to pull it off.  Afterall, the marketed Dragon Age as a dark fantasy with moral ambiguity and we got... a little of that. (Not as much as I was hoping/expecting.)    


I would rather Bioware stick with the ideas the DA franchise is founded on and what they are good at rather than trying to do something that they have proven that they have no idea how to do properly. 

[Jonp382]

the_one_54321 wrote...



I liked this question that I asked Elhanan, so I'm going to repeat it.



But what if the writer was able to take you along an exploration and evolution of character that was based on your actions in the game, but not based on you designing the character?

The player can do that themselves.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Paromlin wrote...

Solostran85 wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

Anyway, why would I want to play some "Hawke"? I want to play my character, I want him/her to feel like my creation - that inculdes naming the character. I don't want others to refer to my character as some "Hawke", for instance.
It's not about extreme customisation. It's the basics I'd say.

Sadly, Bioware started losing it years ago and began to transform every rpg into their story (which is the signature of books and movies) with little to no player input and story freedom. That's the problem. I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

This is Commander Hawke calling! I'm here to save the gal.., I mean, Thedas! 

So you were not fine with your character in Origins having a preset last name? I mean Hawke isn't much different than having Cousland as a last name.

I wasn't.
Bioware even had a lame excuse for (the majority of) those surnames - "technical difficulties". lulz

Admittedly, some of them made a lot of sense.  Cousland and Aedeucan last names were obviously necessary because hey you were a Cousland or Aedeucan son/daughter.  

[sanadawarrior]

Paromlin wrote...

DadeLeviathan wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
I know that it takes talent to make such a "free story" - maybe it's too much to ask from Bioware.

No, it takes skill. Talent, maybe, but mostly skill. Writing is a craft.

I'm not as worried with not being able to name my character. After in real life I didn't name myself, my parents did. I wasn't able to choose who my father or mother are, or who my brothers and sisters are.

Oh, thanks god you corrected the wording. I wouldn't know what to do if someone hadn't pointed out that a writer doesn't need to be talented to write a non linear story with a character of the player's choice and that it's all about skill and practice instead!

RPGs are not real life and Bioware is not my father/mother so I want to name my character instead of them

And don't get me started why non-linear rpgs are better on so many levels, because it won't stop.

Bioware might not be your mother/father but they are certainly the mother/father of the player character in their games...

[the_one_54321]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
I would rather Bioware stick with the ideas the DA franchise is founded on and what they are good at rather than trying to do something that they have proven that they have no idea how to do properly.

I can't argue with that except to see that I hope to see their skill continue to grow.

[Paromlin]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
And don't get me started why non-linear rpgs are better on so many levels, because it won't stop.

You do realize that there was a strictly linear main plot to DA:O right? I mean, it wasn't "technically" linear, but you had a specific start (Ostagar) and a specific end (killing the arch demon). All the other stuff was of coures part of what made the game great, but don't discount the main story writting that's in there.

So? What's your point?
You're assuming I liked it or what?

(Not that I think orangins was a linear game.. if nothing else, you had the freedom to do the main quest areas in the order you want to - was too much to ask from bio to not ruin it with level scaling though :/ ).

[Paromlin]

ITSSEXYTIME, yes, those 2 were the ones that had a point. They said they couldn't let the player invent the other surnames because of "techincal difficulties". LUUULZ

sanadawarrior wrote...


Bioware might not be your mother/father but they are certainly the mother/father of the player character in their games...

My character decides about his name and what name he'll use for himself.

[the_one_54321]

Paromlin wrote...

So? What's your point?

That it was a great story? That writers can give you a great story even if (or maybe because) you can't go wandering around in a sandbox?

[ITSSEXYTIME]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
I would rather Bioware stick with the ideas the DA franchise is founded on and what they are good at rather than trying to do something that they have proven that they have no idea how to do properly.

I can't argue with that except to see that I hope to see their skill continue to grow.

I just wish they would try new things with a new franchise, rather than taking an established one and completely changing it.  Dragon Age is meant to be a classic RPG experience with options, customization and all about crafting your own story in a fantasy world.... and it succeeded.

And now they want to make it into a modern RPG experience with a "dynamic" combat system, limited options and playing as the story of a predefined character.  Oh but since its fully voiced and will have better graphics all the critics and casuals will praise it as the next best RPG.

I think the act of ditching the idea of Origin stories for DA2 shows just how far Bioware has strayed from what DA is as a franchise.  They're getting rid of the titular feature to have the main character start in what sounds like the most generic ass fantasy beginning ever. (Origin stories were designed specifically to NOT be generic, human commoner and others were cut from the game because they couldn't figure out how to make them work without being generic)

Maybe I'm being a bit hasty in my judgement... but I'm really not interested in anything I've heard about DA2 thusfar other than the new art style.  I think you need to rethink your priorities Bioware when a hardcore fan like myself whose put over 200+ hours into your game and bought most of your DLC just doesn't want to buy the sequel to the game that I've sunk so much time and money into.  You have a few months to impress me though, but damn you gave a terrible first impression.

[sanadawarrior]

Paromlin wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME, yes, those 2 were the ones that had a point. They said they couldn't let the player invent the other surnames because of "techincal difficulties". LUUULZ

sanadawarrior wrote...


Bioware might not be your mother/father but they are certainly the mother/father of the player character in their games...

My character decides about his name and what name he'll use for himself.

Aparently, not anymore.

[pprrff]

Khayness wrote...

'cause DA:O gave us hope that dice rolling true RPGs still exist, now they just crushed it by limiting us.

Lol, how is dice rolling true RPG fun? If it weren't for changes and inovation that brought RPGs from the dice rolling and whatever D&D aspects, the genre would have been dead as far as gaming goes.

[AlanC9]

Paromlin wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
And don't get me started why non-linear rpgs are better on so many levels, because it won't stop.

You do realize that there was a strictly linear main plot to DA:O right? I mean, it wasn't "technically" linear, but you had a specific start (Ostagar) and a specific end (killing the arch demon). All the other stuff was of coures part of what made the game great, but don't discount the main story writting that's in there.

So? What's your point?
You're assuming I liked it or what?.

I think the point is that Bio isn't  going to get any more nonlinear than DAO. 

[mopotter]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Swoo wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You know, good writers write their best when they are allowed some freedom to write what they wish. "Options" are like a choke chain on them that cuts them off when their creativity takes them anywhere that is solid or concrete.

Great attempt at trolling or someone who needs to stick to Halo? I'm undecided.

Niether. I'm quite serious. What exactly is so great about having a customizable character in every game? Would it kill people to just let the writers do the writing once in a while? 

Although, with the maturity level of most of the responses so far, I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of breath. Is anyone going to actually respond with why they think the customization is so important, or is going to be the usual spam that fills things up around here? 

Seriously.  I'm an adult woman.  My choices for playing as a woman, as an adult woman are small.  BioWare has always (I start with BG)  given us great stories, with characters who are adults and who can be male or female.  

I'm not interested in playing a teenager, or Laura Croft.  I'm not interested in the Final Fantasy stories or characters and i've played them in desperation.  I've tried Wet and I've played Buffy (actually not bad).  But, BioWare is the only company that consistently supplies me with a story and characters that give me a great gaming experience.

Customization is a major factor in the games I do play.  Mass Effect 1 and 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights, BG, Dragon Age,  Fallout, Morrowind, Oblivion and even Fable 2.  These are the games I keep returning to, but BioWare is the only one who supplies the great story, character interaction and yes, that adult subject of subtle romance and humor.    And BioWare writers are superior in that they can do the story with customization in mind.

[the_one_54321]

mopotter wrote...
Seriously.  I'm an adult woman.  My choices for playing as a woman, as an adult woman are small.  BioWare has always (I start with BG)  given us great stories, with characters who are adults and who can be male or female.  

I'm not interested in playing a teenager, or Laura Croft.  I'm not interested in the Final Fantasy stories or characters and i've played them in desperation.  I've tried Wet and I've played Buffy (actually not bad).  But, BioWare is the only company that consistently supplies me with a story and characters that give me a great gaming experience.

Customization is a major factor in the games I do play.  Mass Effect 1 and 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights, BG, Dragon Age,  Fallout, Morrowind, Oblivion and even Fable 2.  These are the games I keep returning to, but BioWare is the only one who supplies the great story, character interaction and yes, that adult subject of subtle romance and humor.    And BioWare writers are superior in that they can do the story with customization in mind.

All great points. So you mean to say that you just have not enjoyed games where you weren't allowed to design the character?

[Myusha]

Options are what make Dragon Age Popular. Take out the options like Origins, choosing a King in Orzammar, Preserving the Anvil, Saving Connor, Helping The Elves, Helping The Dragon Cult In Haven, The Landsmeet Options, Deciding What To Do With The Circle, The Dark Ritual, The Ultimate Sacrifice, Aiding Avernus or Sophia in Warden's Keep, Saving The City or the Keep in Awakening, choosing to try and take a chance to make the Darkspawn intelligent or not, all add to roleplaying options, and make the story more fun and diverse! Doesn't leave us with, what if questions.

Modifié par Myusha, 08 juillet 2010 - 05:06 .

[the_one_54321]

pprrff wrote...

Khayness wrote...
'cause DA:O gave us hope that dice rolling true RPGs still exist, now they just crushed it by limiting us.

Lol, how is dice rolling true RPG fun? If it weren't for changes and inovation that brought RPGs from the dice rolling and whatever D&D aspects, the genre would have been dead as far as gaming goes.

That's just plain wrong. D&D is alive and well, along with tons of other completely book and dice based games, and a number of places to play-by-post in the same rules sets as these games. All this completely appart from video games.

[Logabob]

I like the direction they're taking it. DAO was brilliant, but I think it suffered from a lack of cohesion due to just how much the player could customize it. Furthermore, I was not a fan of the MMO style combat; I think something more streamlined and action oriented like ME2 would be far more engrossing.



Of course, there are those folks who are fans of the tactical, classic RPG feel of DAO, and they definitely have an argument when they point out that now Bioware will have two IP's in different settings which are stylistically very similar, whereas before, DAO and ME were distinct.

[Paromlin]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Paromlin wrote...
So? What's your point?

That it was a great story? That writers can give you a great story even if (or maybe because) you can't go wandering around in a sandbox?

Alright. Going to extreeemes™ is not earning you any points. I didn't say I want a sand-box seamless world. I said I want a non-linear game. Period. "Great story" or not, tastes are subjective, I prefer much much more (much much) a non linear game. What's unclear about that I don't know.

[the_one_54321]

Logabob wrote...
DAO was brilliant, but I think it suffered from a lack of cohesion due to just how much the player could customize it.

I agree.

Logabob wrote...
Furthermore, I was not a fan of the MMO style combat; I think something more streamlined and action oriented like ME2 would be far more engrossing.

I disagree so hard I think the vein in my forehead might burst.

[Artemis_Entrari]

the_one_54321 wrote...

You know, good writers write their best when they are allowed some freedom to write what they wish. "Options" are like a choke chain on them that cuts them off when their creativity takes them anywhere that is solid or concrete.

Replayability.

Do you know why I only play games like Final Fantasy one time through, while I play games like KOTOR, Fallout, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc. multiple times through?  Because of the options, and how it alters the gaming experience on different play throughs.

[the_one_54321]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You know, good writers write their best when they are allowed some freedom to write what they wish. "Options" are like a choke chain on them that cuts them off when their creativity takes them anywhere that is solid or concrete.

Replayability.

Do you know why I only play games like Final Fantasy one time through, while I play games like KOTOR, Fallout, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc. multiple times through?  Because of the options, and how it alters the gaming experience on different play throughs.

Interesting. I think I agree. But, I have gone through some stories that were so good, I play them over and over again just to see the story again. I'll admit, they are few and far between.

[pprrff]

the_one_54321 wrote...

pprrff wrote...

Khayness wrote...
'cause DA:O gave us hope that dice rolling true RPGs still exist, now they just crushed it by limiting us.

Lol, how is dice rolling true RPG fun? If it weren't for changes and inovation that brought RPGs from the dice rolling and whatever D&D aspects, the genre would have been dead as far as gaming goes.

That's just plain wrong. D&D is alive and well, along with tons of other completely book and dice based games, and a number of places to play-by-post in the same rules sets as these games. All this completely appart from video games.

I guess I wasn't clear. i meant to say that while many people enjoy hard core D&D style rpg, majority of video gamers aren't into that style of play. I can only speak for myself of course, but i couldn't really care less about the combat mechanics of DA or the effect of stats so long as the story was good and the game flows well. And I think the stories flow better if we don't have to pause every 10 sec to setup power/gambit/itemuse/positioning. I actually would enjoy the combat if it was like 'press x to hit something' style of play.

[mopotter]

the_one_54321 wrote...

mopotter wrote...
Seriously.  I'm an adult woman.  My choices for playing as a woman, as an adult woman are small.  BioWare has always (I start with BG)  given us great stories, with characters who are adults and who can be male or female.  

I'm not interested in playing a teenager, or Laura Croft.  I'm not interested in the Final Fantasy stories or characters and i've played them in desperation.  I've tried Wet and I've played Buffy (actually not bad).  But, BioWare is the only company that consistently supplies me with a story and characters that give me a great gaming experience.

Customization is a major factor in the games I do play.  Mass Effect 1 and 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights, BG, Dragon Age,  Fallout, Morrowind, Oblivion and even Fable 2.  These are the games I keep returning to, but BioWare is the only one who supplies the great story, character interaction and yes, that adult subject of subtle romance and humor.    And BioWare writers are superior in that they can do the story with customization in mind.

All great points. So you mean to say that you just have not enjoyed games where you weren't allowed to design the character?

Up to a point you're right.  I enjoyed Jade Empire.  You had preset characters but you had 6 or 7(if you got the special edition) to choose from.  I enjoyed The Force Unleashed  and one of my favorite games was Chrono Trigger, which may have had one main character with friends, but had multiple endings. 

On the whole I don't replay games that don't give me character choices of some kind.  I want to play the game more than once or twice.  I want to play the game for years, which I do with all of the ones i've listed.     

With DA2 I really don't mind that I'll play as a human and not an elf.  But I would be very disappointed if I couldn't play as a male or female, and if I couldn't have choices in my skills it would lowers the play value for me.  

[NewDK]

first i'm addict to Bioware's games and mostly of their games are awesome, but they are different games I dont want a hybrid mass effect/dragon age, dont misunderstand me I love mass effect and I'm a great fan of the franchise.



But I want a Dragon age full of choices, choice your genre, your race,your background, YOUR origin, this was one of the more importants things in DAO, you were the good elf that save everyone but you couldn't be king/queen (the dialogues AND options for each race was terrific) you can be the ruthless noble that destroy and kill everyone and you can be King, I know that these are guidelines but the choices (since the begginning) and how it affected your playthrough are what made DAO the excellent game that is now.



I will hope that Bioware listen us, anyway I can't judge with the little information that we know about the game, I will be waiting for more news