106 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaduos]

I'm kind of curious what Bhelan and Harrowmont both stand for. I've tried looking around for any info on both parties, but I haven't found anything that really tells me what either man is about. I'm sort of mid-way between the quest, though I saved it just before I started it in case I didn't like how it turned out. I'd like to know which one would be considered "good" so I don't have to go back and do all of that again. At the same time, I don't necessarily want the whole thing spoiled - just who to pick to get the better result.

At the moment, I seem to be playing both sides. I got both of the quests thinking I could finish them both and talk to the respective candidates to get a better idea about them. I had done half of the first part of Bhelan's before making my way into the Proving and finishing that, and that immediatly caused Bhelan's rep to confront me for screwing up the deal I had with him. Although, I convinced him that I'm in a good position to pass valuable info, so now I still have the option to make it up to him, though I'm still not able to talk to Bhelan and I'm not sure how his quest will affect anything.

From what I gathered so far, it sounded like Harrowmont was the good guy and that Bhelan had "possibly" killed his brothers. At the same, I ran across a minor spoiler that made it look like Bhelan was the one would get the job done and provide a good ending. These political games annoy me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I don't want to spoil anything, but the success of the ruler you choose will depend on another choice you make, when you reach the anvil.



I supported Harrowmont. And I was slightly dissapointed, but not so much, since my choice vis a vis the anvil helped him out a bit. I heard that if one chooses otherwise, Harrowmont would be pratically useless.

[danien.grey]

Actually it fits right into Bioware's intent to provide dark fantasy. Ambigious moral choices. Harrowmont is "good"(character-wise), but he's an isolationist and ruins the kingdom's economy. Bhelen is "evil"(character-wise) but Orzammar under him flourishes. I supremely dislike it when you have to pick between "good" and "evil"; no one is ever a saint or the devil incarnate. I really like what they did with Orzammar politics.



The end impression I got was pick the likeable guy who ruins the country (Harrowmont) or pick the abrasive one who brings glory to the country (Bhelen).

[Kaduos]

That's a tough decision to make. Thanks for the info.

[Diteron]

I'm currently in the same boat with you Kaduos. I'm trying to choose between the two.



I'm playing both sides trying to meet both candidates before deciding. Though I have the same impressions about Harrowmont and Bhelan that you do. You've got to be really careful about playing both sides though.



I managed to "complete" both First Task quests (though my codex says I only completed the first one). The rep on both sides are pissed I betrayed them so I convinced each that I would spy for them. Then they bounce you back and forth asking what the other wants you to do... So, I somehow managed to break the game. I also managed to alienate a dwarf named Ohgren. Though I think he holds a key to a 3rd option... not sure yet just an impression I get.



I have to reload a previous save and try to work out the complexities to make my plan work. Adapting what Clint Eastwood said in the "Man with No Name" Trilogy, "Harrowmont on one side, Bhelan on the other, and me in the middle." Or something like that.

[Kaduos]

Yeah, I've run into a few bugs with playing both sides, but nothing major or game breaking yet.I just finished with the second part of the quest for Horrowmont, and talking to him right after makes Vargan disappear (thereby breaking your chance to make amends with Behlen). Although, talking to Vargan first allows you to meet Behlen, who will then offer the third part of the quest.



After talking to Behlen, I can then go back and speak with Horrowmont (who will basically say the same thing), but I don't get credit for the second part of the quest with him this way and it seems like it will be in my journal forever - or at least until the main quest is completed and it ditches every quest related to it. I didn't notice if talking to Horrowmont the first time removed it, either.



So, at the moment, I have the third quest for both Behlen and Horrowmont, and the broken part of the second quest that asked me to talk to Horrowmont after completing it. And since I only completed half of the first quest for Behlan - I talked to the dwarf in the inn, but I went and did the Proving before going to the Deep Road to look for the second one - the girl will still acknowledge me as looking for her father, even though I no longer have the quest (it was failed immediately after doing the Proving).

[Reiella]

It's alot easier to decide if you started Dwarf Noble...  Far easier.

[Diteron]

bah, I need the key to get in to see Behlen. The guard says I can enter but the door stays locked.



I told the proving master that I would figh for Harrowmont and then went and found Lord Dace. This breaks the game. Both sides say you screwed them, no matter whether you agree to betray the other or not.



When I agreed to betray both, they each wanted to know what the other was going to do, but neither would let me meet with their boss. So, there is no way to continue in Orzammar. Game over man, game over.



I'm going to have to restart from my base save and choose one. I hate when Bioware pulls this crap. "You must make a choice!"... bull****. Playing both sides is best way to make money, discredit both sides, or in this case level the playing field so neither side is cheating. At least the "choice" in Redcliff has a 3rd option... *grumble, grumble*

[NowImNothing30]

Reiella wrote...

It's alot easier to decide if you started Dwarf Noble...  Far easier.

this is the spoiler forum mind elaborating?...

[dwarven_dervish]

In the dwarf noble origin you're Bhelen's big brother and he's the one that screws you over, leading to you being banished from Orzammar.

[NowImNothing30]

dwarven_dervish wrote...

In the dwarf noble origin you're Bhelen's big brother and he's the one that screws you over, leading to you being banished from Orzammar.

ty...

[Reiella]

Lunarionsilver wrote...

It's kind of funny. I was just thinking about making a post entitled "Dwarven Politics, Exploding Heads", seeing as that's going to be my fate. I find it very difficult to choose a side, so I decided to play them both to figure it out. Problem being though that there's quite a few bugs when trying to be a liar and spy.
Really. I'm damn sure my head is going to explode by the time I get out of Orzammar. Why did I leave these forsaken dwarves for last? I've tried asking around the city, but every bloody dwarf is biased so you just can't get a straight answer.
*Sighs*
I admit though I do like it on Bioware's part. It's good story-telling even if frustrating.

It's a good idea in general, Orzammar is prolly the hardest area of those three chapters.

That said, I didn't want to spoil that uberness that is the Dwarf Noble story .  It really feels like a chapter unto itself.  Unlike human noble, which is feeling really freaking short.

[reddragon567]

Dwarf Commoner I went against character and helped my sister. Willing to be a concubine to get "our" miserable selves out of the slums I think she didn't deserve to get killed or whatever woudl have happened if Bhelen didn't win.

[internaty inmortelaty]

i help bhelan because he promist me troops from the start and as grey warden that is all i care about.

[GmanFresh]

play the dwarf noble origina and it will be clear what they are about.

[Thor Rand Al]

So I'm here at this point where I have to choose from n I'm not finding any info on who would be better.  From what I've gathered from a previous post here is that

""Harrowmont is "good"(character-wise), but he's an isolationist and ruins the kingdom's economy. Bhelen is "evil"(character-wise) but Orzammar under him flourishes. ""
 
So I either pick someone who's evil but the kingdom florishes or someone who's good but destroys the economy. I'm having a moral difficulty here cause I usually stray away from the evil side but it seems that I'm dooming this kingdom for the future if I choose Harrowmont. UGH Bioware thats sooooooo messed up lmao... Is there a 3rd choice, what about finding that paragon or whoever that smith is. 

[Kaigen42]

I did the Warden's Keep DLC right before going to Orzammar, and let me tell you did that ever screw up my ability to make a decision. Fresh off of seeing what happens when the Gray Warden's don't stay politically neutral you're forced to take sides in a political fight; I kept hoping a 3rd option would open up, but it never did. I ended up siding with Bhelen because he started off with a quest that established that Harrowmont was at least being dishonest, while Harrowmont's guy just makes vague allegations he can't support.



Definitely good storytelling though, I was very engaged and hoping Branka would somehow be reasonable (no such luck).

[BryanDerksen]

I think the last person you'd want to have made available as a "third choice" would be Branka.

[Mordern]

Bhelen: Choose if you want a good king.



Harrowmont: Choose if you want a good person.



Branka: Choose if you want a good crazy person who forces you to go through annoying gauntlets of traps and only cares about getting more power, no matter how many innocents she has to slaughter and how impractical the idea of using a whole house as little more than lab rats to test for a safe path really is.

[SidNitzerglobin]

Orzammar is also my last stop on the trail calling in the Grey Warden markers, and it is a bit maddening trying to decide who to back.

I'll probably resort to a coin toss in the end. It would be nice if you could get some better info/background on the two prior to making a decision though.

Any possibility of throwing in with the Nug Liberation Front instead?

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 13 novembre 2009 - 02:47 .

[Ebassist]

I was slightly dissapointed at this quest, only slightly but I ran around Ozzamander for a bit trying to dig up some info on what the characters were actually about, all I got was some guy at the pub saying he marginally supports Harrowment, eventually went for Bhailin because his quest involves exposing Harrowments duplicity and Zevran seemed to dislike Harrowmont.

[Azeo]

Frankly Orzammer kind of sums of the theme of this game, decide which way you would like to be screwed.

There are no happy endings or fairy tale results most major choices you make results in someone being screwed somehow. You just have to try and decide who you want to be screwed how. Ofcourse, no matter what you get screwed. In the dwarf noble origin story no matter what you do you loose your inventory, your status, and are exiled to certain death. In the end you either have to have a darkspawn child, loose Alistar as a friend or in death, or die yourself. No matter what you loose Morrigan, the NPC that Bioware new the most people were interested in. Cheers to the most depressing game of the year!

[Dtelm]

Depressing? Hell No!



So yea my folks were murdered. But I butchered their killer, killed an archdemon, saved the day, married a hot queen, commissioned a monument to the grey wardens, and became king and hero of ferelden,



So what if I had to father a demon-child? Let Morrigan run off and raise her little antichrist, I can deal with him later.

[Fudzie]

I screwed Orzammar over royally without realizing it.



I helped get the chantry set up in the city, helped Harrowmont secure the throne, and destroyed the Anvil of the Void.



The epilogue pretty much states that the Chantry topside are planning to free the crap out of them due to religious persecution.