106 réponses à ce sujet

[Blessed Silence]

Don't you loose Shale if you side with Branka?

[Forumtroll]

I believe you can keep Shale if you don't take her into the Anvil.

[javierabegazo]

Forumtroll wrote...

I believe you can keep Shale if you don't take her into the Anvil.

Is this confirmed at all??

[Forumtroll]

It's in another thread. I'm actually gonna chose Branka this time. I'll report to you all in two days.

[Elsmallo]

If you wonder around the Orzammar royal palace and Harrowmont's estate there are further clues about both characters in the form of a few letters and notes - there's a message from the old King to Harrowmont which is fairly complex but I think suggests that Bhelen didn't in fact kill his brother; there's a love letter from Bhelen's commoner girlfriend and then there's Bhelen's brothers diary which bangs on about B being a **** and some stranger sneaking around the palace. I only discovered these after I sided with Harrowmont and haven't really checked them out properly - there might be some clues in there about the real story behind it all.



A lot of people seem to be breaking this quest and I'm not suprised - neither candidate really seems any good and it's especially hard to choose when you have to 'prove yourself' to even get to meet them. So people stay neutral and end up breaking the quest.

[mp84]

I'm also surprised that you can put yourself in as King if your playing the Dwarven Noble.



I obviously know why, since I've already played that origin, just surprised there isn't any options or any way around getting yourself back on the throne, as it rightfully should be after Trian's death.

[RiceFarmer]

As a dwarf this was an incredibly simple choice for me.



Bhelen back stabbed Trian and my own character, and Bhelen would marry his casteless lover which would weaken the Aeducan line my character could never stand for this. Also Harrowmont will keep to the traditions that are a staple of dwarven culture.

[Vaeliorin]

This is honestly probably the toughest decision in the game. I eventually sided with Harrowmont, simply because what he supposedly did was less bad than what Bhelen supposedly did (and I had my doubts about the validity of the "proof" against Harrowmont.)



Of course, on this playthrough as a dwarf noble, I hope to stab Bhelen in the face as soon as I see him.

[Taritu]

I found the hardest choice in the game was Branka and the anvil. After seeing the Broodmother and what she did to her clan in general I wanted her dead, dead, dead. I hated her even more than the creep who raped my friend (I was playing as a city elf female). I did want to save the anvil, but couldn't make myself do it at the price of keeping Branka alive.



I did support Harrowmont, next time I'll support Bhelen and see. I supported Harrowmont mostly because I had just played the noble origin, and after that origin, the idea of backing Bhelen was repugnant.

[Heldenbrand]

I -love- the dwarven morality choices, its the most morally ambiguous of them all I think as evidenced by everyone searching for the 'ideal' path.



Reminds me of my favorite Fremen quote; "Hard tasks call for hard ways!"



Bhelen is ruthless, doing whatever it takes to survive but some of our own greatest historical figures that arguably did the most to promote society amid chaos and near destruction weren't paragons of purity. Bhelen, by attempting to modernize the dwarves gives them their best hope for survival against the darkspawn. One good reason I had for my dwarf noble to side with him was the focus upon my task now of defeating the darkspawn and the drive to become a Paragon. After all, kings come and go, but Paragons live forever. Bhelen might be remembered as a good king, but my noble will be forever remembered as the dwarf equivalent of a God.

[Trelow-LMG]

I sided with Harrowmont simply because it was my father's request that he become king. Bhelen, I believe, would be the best king given his tenacity, however justice must be served, even if the consequences are dire for the uninvolved innocents.

[Njorhg]

Bhelen is the quintessential '******.
I might have acknowledged him as a decent choice if it wasn't for the "OH-wait I'mah have to execute Harrowmont nao!" after his coronation.

The only thing I missed about the whole sequence was pure bartering. Why didn't the prospective kings offer me any compensation whatsoever? Seriously, all they had need to do was "I¨ll give you 100 sovereigns for the crown!" and I would have been all over it.

Modifié par Njorhg, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:01 .

[Ashera]

I chose Bhelen, because I figured that he was a very tough man that would properly lead the dwarves in very tough times, regardless of what it took. As a Grey Warden, I had to kind of respect that, even though he appalled my PC on a personal level. My job as a Warden is to ensure that the Blight is controlled as much as it can be, and it seemed to me that Bhelen had the stones for it, and Harrowmont didn't. In addition, from an anthropological standpoint, it seems as if the Dwarves rather like a very firm hand on the tiller of the ship of state, and Bhelen provides that for more than Harrowmont.

[Darthnemesis2]

My Human Noble chose Bhelen because Bhelen was willing to break the stupidity of the caste system. Harrowmant only cares for the Nobility, while Bhelen saw everyone as useful. Why punish someone for what their parent's parent's parent did? Viva la revolution!

[DrekorSilverfang]

javierabegazo wrote...

Forumtroll wrote...

I believe you can keep Shale if you don't take her into the Anvil.

Is this confirmed at all??

Confirmed. If shale is not with you during that decision then you can still keep her.

[Leviathonlx]

I initially chose Bhelen but after he executed Harrowmont when he kneeled to him and accepted him I then saved the game to see what Harrowmont did. Needless to say I went with Harrowmont

[dannythefool]

I think Bhelen is actually only slightly more annoying than Harrowmont. Especially if you know the ending, but even before. Both have you do the exact same jobs, both send you to kill people, both attempt to be the first to find a paragon to endorse them, both have armed fanatics that fight you.



I was disappointed when I played the entire Orzammar quest line for Bhelen, then gave the crown to Harrowmont and said it was the paragon himself who had chosen Harrowmont. Overall it didn't seem to make a difference at all compared to another playthrough where I sided with Harrowmont from the beginning. (Also, the quest to return to Orzammar with the crown remained open, not game-breaking though as the storyline progressed to where I get to initiate the landsmeet anyway.)

[DragoonKain3]

I despise Bhelen's character with a passion. If you side with him, he executes Harrowment despite being honorable. If you don't side with him, he plays the sore loser and attacks you.



That said, in the end, I chose Bhelen, as he (ironically enough) is more for removing the caste system, from what I've read around (he has a casteless lover, going by the criers). Plus, it fits well with keeping Branka alive, as doing both means my character is going by whatever ends justifies the means.



I agree with the topic though... dwarven choice is BY FAR the hardest choice to make in the game, especially with Branka as well.



If I was dwarven though, it would be much different, as Noble seems like it makes you favour Harrowment while Commoner makes you favour Bhelen. But without those background stories... man it was hard.

[TuringPoint]

As if Branka's betrayal of her followers weren't enough, she royally pissed me off with the fight with her. Hardest **** fight in the game. I really couldn't imagine suffering bad enough for her.



And yet I could see that the anvil might actually be a good thing, for that matter Bhelen could be good. How to get through that fight without Shale, though? How was putting a thug on the throne supposed to be good?

[AtreiyaN7]

I chose Harrowont, who was the "nice" guy basically. His conservative policies promoted stagnation of dwarven society however. Bhelen, promises more social freedom, but he is definitely the "bad" guy. I mean, fratricide, blackmail, etc. etc. He's an evil weasel (or maybe I should say nug?). Let's face it, you've been to the casteless area & you can see that they're treated like crap under the old system, so this is just one of those reeeeeeally tough choices: keep the nice guy on the throne at the cost of further mistreatment of the casteless OR put an evil bastard in charge who can improve the lot of those poor people (or think of the Untouchables in the Indian caste system - I imagine it'a bout the equivalent). Even so, withou tthe Anvil both of them are effectively doomed anyway (not that having it is exactly a huge improvement in my opinion, given the opportunity to misuse the Anvil).

** Oops, wanted to add that if I'd had a choice, I would have chosen that progressive Assembly member I met in the Tapster I think. Can't remember his name, but he wanted to help the casteless and believed in equality for everyone. HE would've been the best choice imo.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:08 .

[verrall20]

to be honest the dwarves are a very corrupt backward people in dragon age. Though their section of the game was easily one of the best. I choose Harrowmont because he seemed the administrative and reasonable sort I thought he would be a good king. Either way though the dwarves stay the same self centered morally bankrupt jerks though.

[Tjolme]

If you have played through the Dwarven Noble storyline then it really does give you a lot of information on how the Dwarvves have ended up in the sorry situation that forces you to choose a king.



The major problem that I have with Bhelen is not all these good and bad, dictator or so on issues that others talk about. It's that Orzammar was a strong, stable kingdom under his family. The weak, divided Orzammar that encounter is almost entirely due to Bhelen's actions; betrayal, murder, blackmail, bribery and so much more destroyed the city, and it appears that the only way to fix the problem is to put the idiot that caused all the damage onto the throne. It would be the same as having the choice to make Loghain or Arl Howe into the king of Ferelden.

[verrall20]

I think dwarven politics are the undermining weakness in dwarf society.

[Ayradyss]

I have no problem with there being a 'morally grey' decision between the two. Certainly that can make things more interesting than simply good/evil. In itself, this is a good point about this quest line, rather than a bad. BUT . . . with any character who didn't start as a Dwarf (and thus go through one of the Dwarven origin stories), I can't say this is a good quest line by any stretch.

The problem being that there's no opportunity to actually learn about these two. Right off the bat, you have to either commit to running errands for one or the other and that's it. (Obviously trying to play both long enough to actually learn something just leads to a broken quest line.) If there were actually some opportunity to learn about both of them before having to choose one, then sure, it would be cool to have to make a 'shades of grey' decision. Unfortunately, the game reduces it to little more than a coin flip.

(Yes, I did learn about them here on the forums, but that's only because I can read spoilers here from those who've completed the thing and know what came of it all. There's no actual depth of information to find before making a decision in-game, which sucks, IMO.)

I have to say Orzammar had great potential, but they really botched it from any PoV other than a Dwarven origin.

Modifié par Starlance, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:49 .