106 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Soo...we basicly have these combos here?



Harrowmiont-Bhelen

Anvil in tact- Anvil destroyed

Chantry gains foothold - no foothold



So we know Orzamars economy flourishes under Bhelen (but at what cost?) and goes down under Harrowmont.



How does the Anvil affect this?

[Ecaiki]

I chose Bhelen because of his plans to remove the caste system.  Didn't have the meta-knowledge of what happens in either dwarf origin (elf mage), so I could only pick based on politics.  Though I wasn't impressed with Bhelen's ruthlessness, nor the execution of Harrowmont, I figured it wasn't my business beyond getting help against the Blight.

Turns out it worked out for the best, and the dwarves even reclaim some old territory because everyone is allowed to fight.  Plus he takes out congress err, the Assembly, and lets the Chantry opperate freely.

As far as Bhelen himself, well he's ruthless, cunning, and willing to do whatever it takes.  I may not agree with his methods, but I couldn't deny (from the brief meetings with him) that he has what it takes to rule well.

[Apophis2412]

I sided with Bhelen when I was dwarven noble.

I sided with Harrowmont when I was dwarven commoner.

[Jehris]

My initial playthrough I did as many others seem to have: Helped Harrowmont gain the throne, destroyed the Anvil and created the Chantry. Which was all for absolutely nothing in the end. It was definitely the most depressing of the outcomes I received. Do all the good deeds and see people suffer for them, eh? Playing through now as a Dwarf Noble... Also hoped to kill Bhelen as soon as I got close, which wasn't a choice. It is sounding like I also won't have the choice to take the throne for myself, which is also a bit sad. I can't help but wonder why BioWare did what they did in this area. The dwarves seem doomed to face corruption or destruction, despite noble roots.

[Arijharn]

The Chantry considers a divine march against Orzammer as well if you supported Dagna for those who are worried about any chantry repercussions. Personally, I don't think the Chantry has much right to intrude on the Dwarves just like it didn't have a right to intrude upon the Elves.



To be on topic though, I have sided with Harrowment almost always, the sneakiness of Bhelen just grates me to the point I wanted to be personally able to execute him on the spot of the Assembly before the astonished Deshyrs.

[Amaryd]

I sided with Harrowmont, big mistake, will side with bhelen next time.

In my current playthrough I plan on keeping the Anvil of the Void, and together with Shale my army of gollems will eradicate every single pidgeon in Ferelden, successfully stopping the Pidgeon Blight from ever occuring in the first place! And if we manage to have a spare minute we'll kill the Archdemon aswell ofcourse, no point in letting everyone die by the darkspawn, they won't be able to bow for me then. And I need my servants.

[Ecaiki]

Apophis2412 wrote...

I sided with Bhelen when I was dwarven noble.
I sided with Harrowmont when I was dwarven commoner.

So wait, your commoner sided with the man who wants to keep you oppressed, over the man who wants to give you the option of raising above your born station?

My mind, it is blown.

Amaryd wrote...

I sided with Harrowmont, big mistake, will side with bhelen next time.
In
my current playthrough I plan on keeping the Anvil of the Void, and
together with Shale my army of gollems will eradicate every single
pidgeon in Ferelden, successfully stopping the Pidgeon Blight from ever
occuring in the first place! And if we manage to have a spare minute
we'll kill the Archdemon aswell ofcourse, no point in letting everyone
die by the darkspawn, they won't be able to bow for me then. And I need
my servants.

I love her ending, at least if you die.  She spends her days gleefully killing bird life.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hm...after reading everytihng it doesn't seem like Harrowmint is a bad politician/ruler - it's just that he has much opposition in the assembly and has trouble getting anything done.



Behlen just removes any opposition completely like the tyrant he is. Orzamaar grows, but the question is - at what price. Removing of the castes is hte ONLY good thing he does.



Hmmm...dang. In my current playtrough I allready taken the job offer from Harrowmiont to search for Branka. Now I am wondering if I should

[The Angry One]

No, Harrowmont is also an ultra-conservative, and indecisive. Two things Orzammar doesn't need.

Bhelen's a magnificent bastard type. Completely amoral, treacherous and manipulative, but exactly the kind of leader the dwarves need to survive and progress.

[Ecaiki]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hmmm...dang. In my current
playtrough I allready taken the job offer from Harrowmiont to search
for Branka. Now I am wondering if I should

If memory serves, you get a final chance to give the crown to the other guy during the scene after you return from the anvil.  So you might as well stick with what you've already done, depending on how far through the deep roads you are.

The Angry One wrote...

No, Harrowmont is also an ultra-conservative, and indecisive. Two things Orzammar doesn't need.
Bhelen's
a magnificent bastard type. Completely amoral, treacherous and
manipulative, but exactly the kind of leader the dwarves need to
survive and progress.

Just like RL.

I do so love that for once the "good" guy isn't the best ruler.

Modifié par Ecaiki, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:58 .

[Relshar]

Reiella wrote...

It's alot easier to decide if you started Dwarf Noble...  Far easier.

yeh the choice is kind of made for you.

[The Angry One]

From a Dwarf Noble's perspective, one could easily take the view that Bhelen simply got you before you got him, and thus deserves his victories, as long as it suits you.

[Jehris]

If you didn't play your Dwarf Noble like Harrowmont seems to be: One who is actually noble.

[Saurel]

If your a dwarf noble who actually killed Trian. I could see that. Bhelen was a complete bastard, seeing as I didn't kill Trian.

[Dragoness75]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't want to spoil anything, but the success of the ruler you choose will depend on another choice you make, when you reach the anvil.

I supported Harrowmont. And I was slightly dissapointed, but not so much, since my choice vis a vis the anvil helped him out a bit. I heard that if one chooses otherwise, Harrowmont would be pratically useless.

So what did you do, save the Anvil?

I am not quite there yet and am wondering what I should do.

[T0paze]

If you choose Bhelen, save the Anvil (optionally) and support Dagna, the Chantry may be in for some real trouble, should they decide to declare an Exalted March against Orzammar. I mean, they'll have to deal with a strong ruler, golems and apostate mages, including blood mages. Not to mention the fact that they'll be forced to fight underground, so chevaliers are out of question.

On the other hand, no Exalted March is needed at all. They can simply impose economic sanctions.

Modifié par T0paze, 27 décembre 2009 - 12:18 .

[jakasywa]

Bhalen + preserved Anvil + ending choice of allowing mages to be free of chantry = dwarven Hitler and helpless humans let 'em burn harahrhar

[Hyper Cutter]

I sided with Harrowmont on my one playthrough so far (Dwarf Noble), for the sole reason that Bhelen framed me for murder and exiled me while Harrowmont was sympathetic to my cause.



And then Orzammar goes to hell in the epilogue. Damn it, game...

[jakasywa]

But Harrowmont may choose you as his successor so the Orzammar ain't totally doommed ;P

[T0paze]

Aren't you exaggerating, guys?

Even with Harrowmont, Orzammar doesn't go to hell. So, he's a worse leader than Bhelen, big deal. Orzammar must have seen lots of those. He'll die and then someone more capable will take over, that's it. Harrowmont is no Hitler, and he's very unlikely to get Orzammar involved in some risky ventures like attacking human territories or do anything else that Orzammar will have to pay for long after he himself is dead. Actually, that's something you'd be more likely to expect from Bhelen.

Modifié par T0paze, 27 décembre 2009 - 02:04 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

I'm at the point in the game now when I have to decide, and I have to say this is the toughest decision in the game so far. Not in the habit of spoiling things, especially on the first playthrough, but this made me come to the spoiler forum to gain a bit of extra knowledge on the two...

Playing a dwarven commoner, I'm leaning to supporting Bhelen - the caste system needs to be broken, and perhaps the dwarfs could live with a tyrant that leaves as a legacy a more egalitarian society, rather than with a poor leader that, when he dies, leaves them off with the same old caste system. If Bhelen is also the better king for the economy, it seems that putting up with his tyrant ways for a generation may be what's best for the future of the dwarfs. What makes it hard is that from what I can gather about Bhelen, he's a royal coniving arse, and the other guy seems more honests and is more likeable. I think the caste thing, plus the fact that as a commoner, I've got my sister's future to consider tilts the scale a little more towards Bhelen.

Anyway, reading this thread helped clarify things a little, so thank you everyone for that! 

[Sable Phoenix]

This really is one of the toughest decisions in the game outside some of the Landsmeet politicking. I wish almost every decision in the game was this dubious; it really is like real life where you have no clearly defined superior choice, just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I agree with one of the previous posters, though.  If the game wasn't forced to give you a limited set of choices, I would have engineered it so that Denek Helmi, the Assemblyman in Tapster's, gained the throne.  Screw Harrowmont and Bhelen both.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 07 avril 2010 - 03:36 .