465 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.Skar]

Well the issue makes the PC version's combat sound like it's gonna be largely unchanged. The whole "moar action lol" is mostly for the console versions since they couldn't do the top down thing. So aside from the conversation wheel making a showing I don't really have anything to complain about.

[Darkieus]

Sorry, but Game Informer, like most Corporate Sellouts, cater more to the Console Playing Kiddies than they do actual gamers. There's nothing exciting about DA2 right now, especially with the heartbreaking announcements as of late.

[Avilan II]

Darkieus wrote...

Sorry, but Game Informer, like most Corporate Sellouts, cater more to the Console Playing Kiddies than they do actual gamers. There's nothing exciting about DA2 right now, especially with the heartbreaking announcements as of late.

What heart-breaking announcements as of late? Is Bioware dumping you, as a lover?

I originally was very disappointed, because I thought they had changed the combat system for the PC version. Since they have not, and I consider all other changes either irrelevant or good, I am very excited about DA2. 

[The Elite Elite]

Darkieus wrote...

Sorry, but Game Informer, like most Corporate Sellouts, cater more to the Console Playing Kiddies than they do actual gamers. There's nothing exciting about DA2 right now, especially with the heartbreaking announcements as of late.

Oh, so console players are all kids and not real gamers? Yeah for another PC elitist!<_<

[BomimoDK]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Just pick up the 1st ME when it's again for sale on steam for 2,50$ and try it for yourself just once? You are pondering over ME since a few month...

If it really uses this "wheel" system than I can see another reason I'm glad I never tried it ... I don't want any kind of color/position cue for my dialogue, I would rather read the dialogue for myself and decide whether or not it's aggressive, nice, mean, insulting, good, evil ... then have the game provide that for me ... that's hand holding I don't want. 

What would that help when the Character you're talking to (the game) is going to take it the way that is pre set anyway? your arguments are weak. It's a logical system behind this... it won't be able to read your thoughts or how you pressurize a sentence... it just reads your clicks and has a soundfile and animation ready that matches what the writers saw most fitting with the words you just chose.
what does it matter if you decide in your mind how it should sound when the game takes a grand crap on that... Mass Effect wheel or not? if you REALLY want to baww about this, at least get some REAL points... this is futile.

[fatale-sirens]

Estel78 wrote...

The only thing i'm a little concerned about is the new art design. I've heard someone saying it's almost anime like. I'd really like to see some high res screenshots...

Mmm it doesnt really look animeish to me.  But then again these screens are a bit small.
http://greywardens.c...nshots-sighted/

[Jhonny Nocturne]

Estel78 wrote...

The only thing i'm a little concerned about is the new art design. I've heard someone saying it's almost anime like. I'd really like to see some high res screenshots...

That was just some fool's impression of the concept art. Which isn't anime inspired at all.

[Warheadz]

I wish there would be more information on the save game importing, since i had a lot of issues/bugs in origins with companions and their dialogue, and it affected the epilogue.

[Brockololly]

Warheadz wrote...

I wish there would be more information on the save game importing, since i had a lot of issues/bugs in origins with companions and their dialogue, and it affected the epilogue.

Totally agree on this point. It would really be terrible if you import into DA2 only to realize the flags were goofed up. It happened with Awakening and the Morrigan epilogue, I just hope extra attention is given to how DA2 reads the flags, as the continuity is a real big point for myself.

[Master Shiori]

I'm sure we'll get plenty of information (along with gaming footage) in the following months.



I know that we, as fans, want to know everything right now but that's not going to happen. Best to just wait and be patient.

[Bryy_Miller]

Darkieus wrote...

Sorry, but Game Informer, like most Corporate Sellouts, cater more to the Console Playing Kiddies than they do actual gamers. There's nothing exciting about DA2 right now, especially with the heartbreaking announcements as of late.

lol, you used the phrase 'sell out' next to 'corporate', which further invalidates anything you have to say!

[Legion 2.5]

SInce I mentioned a few days ago that I am a subscriber to gameinformer and probably will get it early, is it possible to post spoilers from Dragon Age that are mentioned in the article when I get it here? This question is for the developers.

[Warheadz]

Legion 2.5 wrote...

SInce I mentioned a few days ago that I am a subscriber to gameinformer and probably will get it early, is it possible to post spoilers from Dragon Age that are mentioned in the article when I get it here? This question is for the developers.

If you do post it, could you somehow try to warn about plot spoiling info bits? Some of us dont wish to see them.

[Nodrim01]

4) We're getting the ME2 conversation wheel, but this time instead of having some dialogue be a particular color the center of the wheel will show a symbol to show what kind of reply it is. (The article uses the examples of them being something like aggressive or sarcastic)

Oh no please shoot me now!!!!!

[Legion 2.5]

Warheadz wrote...


If you do post it, could you somehow try to warn about plot spoiling info bits? Some of us dont wish to see them.

Okay I will tag it SPOILERS for you and anyone else you doesn't want to be spoiled about the original game.

[GraciousCat]

The Elite Elite wrote...

Darkieus wrote...

Sorry, but Game Informer, like most Corporate Sellouts, cater more to the Console Playing Kiddies than they do actual gamers. There's nothing exciting about DA2 right now, especially with the heartbreaking announcements as of late.

Oh, so console players are all kids and not real gamers? Yeah for another PC elitist!<_<

Exactly what I was thinking Elite

Modifié par GraciousCat, 11 juillet 2010 - 08:43 .

[Bryy_Miller]

The Elite Elite wrote...

Alright, just finished reading the DA2 article in my GI mag. WARNING! I am going to be posting some of the things that really stand out. (To me anyway) So if you don't want to know, skip my post.

1) We will be able to import our DA:O games into DA2.

2) We will see Flemeth at some point.

5) The way the story unfolds will be very different compared to the past Bioware games. "Dragon Age II has a framed narrative structure, which means that the exploits of Hawke occured in the past, but are being retold in the present." "Narrators with unique insights into the events in question tell the tale of his past adventures."

6) We may get to see some of the DA:O events at the start from a different perspective. "Dragon Age II begins as the events of Origins are still taking place, so you may see some familiar events from a different angle."

So, in short, BioWare just said: "Everyone chill the f*** out, we got this".

[Legion 2.5]

I'm just curious, how come The Elite Elite got the gameinformer magazine early that me and we are both subscribers?

[Bryy_Miller]

He has Elite in the title. Come on, we live in the age of Obama.

[Veilinn]

The Game Informer article is one of the most depressing things I've read in a long time. It sounds silly... but is was.

Why?

Because reading it made me feel like I was part of some lunatic fringe for hating Mass Effect and it's godforsaken dialogue wheel and a Voiced Player Character. Not to mention the commentary on developing for the PC....

In the Intro:

"Presented as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, Origins was charged with carrying on the legacy of a PC game released in 1998. In the intervening years, the roleplaying genre has grown and evolved in many directions across multiple platforms. How players would react to traditional elements like a silent hero and highly tactical combat was difficult to predict, especially with titles like Mass Effect setting new standards for conversation systems and cinematic presentation."

Wasn't DA presented as the successor to BG2? Anyway....

Mass Effect did set new standards for me. It set standards in what I found playable.... It made me dread hearing the word "cinematic." I...anyway- moving on:

"Any reservations about the design were put to rest with Origins' release. Due to BioWare's skillful implementation, gamers accepted and embraced the old-school aesthetic in Origins. But nostalgia can only carry a series so far. Where does one draw the line between homage and aging design? BioWare views Dragon Age as an enduring property spanning multiple installments, and the Edmonton studio is aware that future games in the franchise can't endlessly go back to the well of fond memories."

"Nostalgia." "Homage." "Aging design." ...Here I just feel it's good design, not perfect, nothing is. But it works, it allows one to role-play in a constructed environment.

I wasn't aware it was fond memories that made Mass Effect one of the games I couldn't stand playing. If only it was that simple.... And Dragon Age seemingly can't be that thing... that isn't like Mass Effect. It has to move on... away from design that I can enjoy playing.

"Dragon Age II is more than just a sequel - it serves to establish a new identity for the Dragon Age universe. With success to call its own, Dragon Age is no longer bound by the concept of being a spiritual successor to another series. BioWare is making some major modifications to the formula, giving story and mechanics a more contemporary twist while retaining the essence of what fans loved about the original."

"A new identity."

Will we ever see the old identity? Ever again? In any game? What was so wrong with... no dialogue wheel? No voiced Player Character?

"'At the core, what we're doing is trying to give Dragon Age a shot of adrenaline,' says executive director Mark Darrah. 'It means amping everything up that maybe was a little lacking, but keeping what already works.'"

Why... not keep the dialogue system? It worked.... I didn't find it lacking at all. I found it liberating after Mass Effect.

~~~

Anyway, moving on- From "The Champion":

"The focus on Hawke as a known quantity also allows the team to address an area of concern from Origins: voice acting for the player character. In this case, BioWare took a cue from its own Mass Effect series, which has been lauded for its cinematic feel and believable conversations between characters. These goals are difficult to achieve if the main character is mute. 'Especially when compared to Mass Effect, this is something that prevents it from telling a really immersive story, so we're going to add player VO,' Darrah says."

The first time I was raped by an Asari prostitute was the only time I needed to decide Mass Effect's system was not believable. And it isn't more "cinematic"... it's more like watching a movie, but it isn't what I would call cinematic. To me, the word cinematic implies good cinematography. Dynamic camera angles. Atmospheric lighting. I should look at the screen and see a work of art, and something that really defines the emotion of the scene. A cinematic game should take all the wonderful things it can learn from the movies and their cinematography... but it should still be a game. Not a bad movie with interactive combat sequences (which, is what I have privately called many JRPGs for years).

And the lack of Player Character voice acting makes the game more immersive to me.... It's hard to hear that my preferences are inherently wrong... from the people making the game themselves.

"Not only will Hawke speak, but you will also have a new way to select his responses. Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's, where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel. An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic intent (like aggressive or sarcastic), so you can focus more on the interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."

I like reading and analyzing dialogue. It's oft my favorite part of the game.... I have good reason to feel that way, it's given me many good memories. Often, just reading my options if half the fun of playing the game. Why do you want to take it away from me? Why is that so bad?

I posted this in the Mass Effect review thread back shortly after it was released, I think it sums up a good reason why "reading an analyzing" choices is a very good thing to have:

-
"Finally, and most importantly to me, the VO distances you from your character. You aren't hearing their "thoughts" anymore... you're hearing the words after they're spoken. This never really occurred to me before, but that is the "effect" of text-based choices. You're in the character's head... when the dialogue is just spit out like any other NPC, it really distances you from the character. The character is no longer yours... it's someone elses. You aren't privy to their thoughts... they're this foreign entity that wears the "mask" of your character. This is what shocked my system the most, this is what killed the game for me."
-

"'We do know that, in Mass Effect, most people do not skip the dialogue. They actually sit through it and experience it as a whole,' Laidlaw says. 'It tells us that people are experiencing it in a more cinematic way, in that case. Whereas the Origins style is a little more choppy, where you read and listen and read and listen.'"

I sit through the dialogue in Dragon Age and experience it as a whole as well. I HAVE to sit through Shepard's speaking of the dialogue because I can't read it on the wheel. And if I turn off voices, I have to essentially read the dialogue twice... and then if Shepard goes and randomly punches someone when I chose the wrong dialogue option because it didn't tell me Shepard was going to punch someone, I have to sit through the whole conversation again. And what if the dialogue was just something my character would absolutely not say, again I must reload. How is that less work than just reading the dialogue my character is going to say once?

How is that less choppy than just reading the dialogue? Having to reload because Shepard says something that isn't like what you wanted to say is far more choppy than just reading dialogue and choosing the option that sounds like your character would say it.

"You'll still direct Hawke's choices and shape his personality, but he won't be a blank slate where the player needs to fill the gaps. He can speak when not spoken to, and offer contextual insight. Even better, the characters around Hawke will have something to react to, eliminating the stilted, stop-and-go dynamic of Origins. Just as Commander Shepard proves a compelling anchor for the Mass Effect series, the Champion of Kirkwall will be a mythical and charismatic figure."

Isn't creating the personality of a "blank slate" the whole purpose of role-playing? It's what actually allows a game like PST to still be called an RPG, because the Nameless One is a blank slate. He remembers nothing of his past. Even the defined character of the Nameless One is a blank slate. That was a GOOD thing.

And Dragon Age's dialogue was not stilted. You want stilted? Go Look at some of Mass Effect's dialogue. Some the dialogue is so awkward sounding I'm amazed the VAs were actually able to speak it out loud. Like this line from Kaidan:

"'Biotic Acclimation and Temperance' didn't last past the airlock. To the kids they hauled in, it was 'Brain Camp.' Sorry, 'hauled in' is unkind. We were 'encouraged to commit to an evaluation of our abilities, so an understanding of biotics could be compiled.'"

 "Sorry, 'hauled in' is unkind." WHO says something like that? No one actually talks like that. Stuff like THAT is worthy of being called stilted.

And Shepard was not, and will never be compelling. Shepard is not charismatic as well. Shepard is a droning, boring, shouting, immortal automaton that's one emotion is that of Jack Bauer with his panties in a twist.

And horniness... if that can be called an emotion.

~~~

From "Interview with the Doctors":

"The console version of Dragon Age II seems to be a much bigger focus than it was for the first game. What drove the decision to refine the console experience?

Ray Muzyka: We learned the hard way in Dragon Age: Origins how hard it is to work initially on the PC and then convert the game back to console. In the case of Dragon Age II we're doing all versions simultaneously (PC, 360, and PS3) but we're definitely ensuring the features we put in work well on console as well as PC, because it's typicallly much easier to convert back to PC. The PC has a wider range of potential control options and can thus accommodate different designs easier in many cases than consoles can. Both consoles and PC are important to us, and we have great fan communities we plan to support in the future on all of these platforms."

We're never going to see another game created from the ground up for the PC again, are we? Just the console's sloppy seconds?

....

"Has Bioware's success with the Mass Effect series affected the studio's approach to Dragon Age?

Greg Zeschuk: We're always trying to evolve all of our games, so it's fair to say that Mass Effect has had an influence on Dragon Age. A common problem in the games business, and one key thing that we try and avoid, is being reactive and not seriously considering the implications of even the smallest feature changes in our games. We're always trying to make our games more accessible and easier to play while not removing any of the depth and detail that players value. essentially, you don't want to fix something that isn't broken, so it's a careful balancing act. Finally, the ultimate design of the game is driven by the passion of the team and what they want to create; that's how we achieve quality."

Dragon Age's dialogue system wasn't broken? Why did it have to change?

Did you consider people like me who hate Mass Effect and find it unplayable? I can't play DA2. It would be like torture to me. Even more so because I'm already invested in Thedas. I care about it. I began hating Mass Effect and it's dialogue trappings before I could truly become invested in the world. You're making design decisions with DA2 that bar me from ever visiting Thedas again....

~~~

It's just so... depressing. To know that... what I love to play, is effectively dead in the mainstream. Everything now must be voiced. All BioWare games now must have some sort of variation on the dialogue wheel. You know, that thing that was created for use with an analog stick, but when used with a mouse feels like you're trying to use a greasy bowl as a mousepad. And from the looks of the screens in the article, it doesn't even look like you can choose dialog options with numbers. Not that that would make a difference for me... but it just goes to show how uncomfortable the dialog wheel is on the PC, how little is thought of when it comes to the PC as a platform.

And if anyone involved in the making of this game were to respond to me here, I'd just get that canned line, "I'm sorry you feel that way, maybe you'll give our game a chance anyway, despite it being torturous for you to play." I know my feedback will mean nothing, because they've already moved away from design decisions I find tolerable- and it seems everyone else has as well.

"Aging"... Ha. I guess I'm just a fossil.

...Never thought I'd be called that this young.

Modifié par Veilinn, 11 juillet 2010 - 10:17 .

[q0rra]

Veilinn wrote something good and thoughtful.

I was about to eat this yummy cake. Now I want you to have it. Really, I do.

Modifié par q0rra, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:03 .

[Riona45]

People who are still arguing that DA2 is going to give the same experience as Mass Effect need to read the recent developer comments on this board. They also address the common complaints about the dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist.

[The Elite Elite]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

He has Elite in the title. Come on, we live in the age of Obama.

Lol. Well, not sure why I got my GI earlier than you guys. Usually I don't get it till around the middle of the month, so this was pretty quick for me. (Perfect issue to come quickly too:))

@Veilinn, while I agree with you that there was nothing broken about the lines of text dialogue and a mute PC (Voiced PC is the one reason why I pretty much never play a male Shep in ME) I don't find the change to dialogue wheel and voiced PC game-breaking either. I'm sorry that those issues are such a big deal for you though.

[Riona45]

I'm actually very happy that Hawke will have a voice.  I have never found that to make me less able to get into the character.  I play pen and papers games, so I already have a venue in which my characters say exactly what I want them to say--I simply don't need that in a video game, where everything has to be written and scripted ahead of time (and therefore, never *completely* yours in the first place).  In older games, while the PC was silent, so was everyone else, or mostly so.  In DA:O, every character but yours is completely voiced, and for me that really made the PC stand out--not necessarily a good way. 

I don't know if the DA:O marketing ever actually used the term "cinematic", but it was pretty obvious to me that they were trying to make it cinematic, and therefore all the dramatic moments that involved voice had to be dominated by NPCs.  I look forward to seeing the PC able to take the center stage a bit more.

[Bryy_Miller]

The Elite Elite wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

He has Elite in the title. Come on, we live in the age of Obama.

Lol. Well, not sure why I got my GI earlier than you guys. Usually I don't get it till around the middle of the month, so this was pretty quick for me. (Perfect issue to come quickly too:))

@Veilinn, while I agree with you that there was nothing broken about the lines of text dialogue and a mute PC (Voiced PC is the one reason why I pretty much never play a male Shep in ME) I don't find the change to dialogue wheel and voiced PC game-breaking either. I'm sorry that those issues are such a big deal for you though.

It said simply DA:o imports, nothing of DA:A?