465 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

The only advantage DA:O would have would be the PS3 advantage and I can bet more PC users bought DA:O than ME2. However there is a large gap in what we do know from NPD in regards to the 360 versions of both games.

[Master Shiori]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Both ME and DA are supposed to be different gaming experiences.

They don't catter to the same audience and this has been presented as one of the strengths of DA:O.
Had DA:O not been the most succesful game launch in Bioware's history and had it not shown that there IS a demand for classic style rpgs, then the new direction and changes in DA2 would come as no surprise to anyone.
Can you implement elements from ME into DA2 and still keep it true to what made DA:O popular? I believe you can if you're careful.
I own both ME games and DA:O. I enjoy them all but don't expect the same experience from them. Origins is what I consider an example of how you make a good fantasy rpg. ME is a different type of game but can be pretty enjoyable if accepted for what it is. Trying to make them more similar isn't necessary a good thing, as reaction on these forums clearly shows. I'm willing to believe the team behind DA2 will stay true to what made Origins great as much as possible, even if they do add some elements from ME.

Unless you have a source for your claims of DAO being best launch in BioWare history your entire argument is meaningless.....Mass Effect 2 far outsold DAO and was far better received by both the mainstream audience and the critics producing massive sales ranging around 2 million copies sold......DAO didn't sell that much not even close and took a lot moretime and money to produce. Your argument is only as good as your assumptions. Basing your argument on fallacies is just a waste of your time because you aren't helping convince anyone....especailly NOT BioWare.

By all means, here you go :

EDMONTON, Canada, Feb 08, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Leading video
game developer BioWare™, a division of Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ:
ERTS), announced today that Dragon Age™: Origins has sold-in over 3.2
million* units worldwide. The "RPG of the Year" as named by
Game Informer, G4, SpikeTV, AOL.com, and PC Gamer, Dragon Age: Origins
has been hailed by Seth Schiesel of The New York Times as, "...perhaps
the best electronic game made yet." Dragon Age: Origins has won over 30
"Best of 2009" awards and has an average review score of 91**. This
staggering critical and commercial success makes Dragon Age: Origins the
sixth consecutive blockbuster from BioWare, alongside Baldur's
Gate™, Neverwinter Nights™, Star Wars®: Knights of the Old
Republic™, Jade Empire™ and Mass Effect™.

Since the
release of Dragon Age: Origins in fall 2009, the studio has continued to
enchant gamers with additional content packs including Warden's Keep
and Return to Ostagar. The upcoming expansion pack, Dragon Age: Origins -
Awakening is set to launch on March 16, 2010.

"This is a
tremendous start for the Dragon Age franchise and we are extremely
pleased with the great reception the game has already received from
critics and fans worldwide," said Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder, BioWare
and Group General Manager of the RPG/MMO Group of EA. "Our team is
dedicated to crafting high quality, engaging new adventures and stories
in the world of Ferelden for our fans!"

Source: www.1up.com/boards/posts/list/48288.page


As for the "most successful launch in Bioware's history:

Dragon
Age: Origins has been kind of a big deal for BioWare and
parent EA. So much so in fact that it’s surpassed the studio’s other
recent RPG franchise, Mass Effect, BioWare principal designer
Rob Bartel has said, and all other games they’ve created for that
matter.
“Dragon Age was an extremely successful title for us,”
Bartel tells MCV, “last November it was the
single most globally successful title we’ve put out to date.”

source: www.thatvideogameblog.com/2010/07/08/dragon-age-biowares-most-successful-title/

[Ellestor]

Darth_Trethon, you keep declaring the claim that Dragon Age outsold Mass Effect 2 invalid for lack of sources and then turning around to say that Mass Effect 2 outsold Dragon Age. Where are your sources?

Here's what I can find:

Dragon Age: Origins: 3.2 million as of February 2010
GameSpot

Mass Effect 2: 6.6 million as of April 2010
IGN

Mass Effect 2: 1.6 million as of May 2010
VideoGamer
G4TV

Obviously, one of the press releases about ME2's sales has to be wrong.

Modifié par Ellestor, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:39 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

And I bet when ME 3 is announced they will say that ME 2 was their most successful launch

[Master Shiori]

As for why it would outsell ME2, that can be easily explained if you look at it's popularity worldwide.

ME2 is highly popular in North America and this is where you'll find the majority of it's fans. Outside of NA it's popularity is a lot smaller when compared to DA:O. DA:O was a much bigger success outside the States and even today sells quite well. As a european I can confirm that in my country the sales of DA:O are still strong, while those of ME2 have seen a considerable drop since it's launch. In fact, when my local video game store gets new copies of Origins they sell out in 2-3 days tops. Meanwhile copies of ME2 have been gathering dust for a few months now.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:13 .

[nilssen255]

Name set, can only be human. classes: Rogue, mage, warrior.

Disappointment.




Disa-f'kin-ppointment.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ellestor wrote...

Darth_Trethon, you keep declaring the claim that Dragon Age outsold Mass Effect 2 invalid for lack of sources and then turning around to say that Mass Effect 2 outsold Dragon Age.. Where are your sources?

Here's what I can find:

Dragon Age: Origins: 3.2 million as of February 2010
http://www.gamespot....ws/6249940.html

Mass Effect 2: 6.6 million as of April 2010
http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1083726p1.html

Mass Effect 2: 1.6 million as of May 2010
http://www.videogame...lion_units.html
http://g4tv.com/thef...just-under.html

Obviously, one of the press releases about ME2's sales has to be wrong.

Yep and there are more figures in the air a 2 mil figure for ME2 from March and so on.....all of them backed by equally good guesses and mysterious EA reports and so on......the 6.6 mil figure has all the shiny names reported with it....EA and BioWare. The point being that EA hasn't bveen very good about telling numbers and given that in the first month when a vast majority of the sales usually occur DAO had only sold 360k copies(all including digital downloads and CEs sold): http://www.gamespot....adlines;title;1 it seems extremely outlandish to have its sales jump to 3.2 mil sales. One thing is certain.....ME2 deffinitely sold 1 mil copies in one month past release on fewer platforms though different figures place it at 2 mil in first month so yes the 3.2 mil for DAO seems just as outlandish as the 6.6 for ME2 and fat chances are that it's just as wrong.

[Krytheos]

nilssen255 wrote...

Name set, can only be human. classes: Rogue, mage, warrior.

Disappointment.




Disa-f'kin-ppointment.

..........

You do realise this is no different, don't you, than DA: O? In each Origin, you had a set last name, but not a set first name; the same is being said in DA2.

...Why do people conveniently forget that DA: O had a set surname, just like Hawke does? Seriously? Do people not even pay attention? Dalish Elves = Mahariel. City Elves = Tabris. Nobles = Cousland. Mage = Amell. Dwarf Nobles = Aeducan. Commoner = Brosca.

You couldn't change the surname, no matter what. Hawke is like that, only a set surname, yet people conveniently forget this was also featured in Dragon Age Origins.

*sigh.*

I will give you the human part, but if it means a more focused, more personal and epic story, which is only one facet of the Dragon Age world as a whole, I welcome the change.

Modifié par Krytheos, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:31 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

The Origins were the more interesting point of the game

[Krytheos]

Sure, it was an interesting point, but ultimately, it was called Dragon Age: Origins and this sequel isn't called Origins 2. Honestly, while I enjoyed DA:O immensely, I'm rather happy so far with what I've seen.



If the storytelling medium means a better, more focused personal story that actually has meaning instead of 'You're important, you're to stop the Blight!' then I welcome that, because it means a whole nother, possibly better storyline, because a more definited character -- which I'm lead to believe we will be able to personalize throughout Hawke's decade-spanning tale -- creates a better story, more often than naught.



So, call me optimistic if you want, but I do really believe DA: 2 will be tried and true to the series, despite the doomsayers...well..doomsaying.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Soooo



That has me thinking...



DA = Blood Omen series?



What could we have DA3: Origins 2?



hmm

[Darth_Trethon]

I am fairly sure they are done with the "origins" part of the title......your average player....you know the ones that don't post on the forums only plays the game 1 to 3 times max so that places a lot of development time and resources into levels and game content that simply won't be experienced by most players......that is a very large waste and I am sure that it's why in DA2 you have a more pre-defined character. DAO too 5 years to make and DA2 is intended to be out early 2011....under a year and a half and while they are probably using the same engine they are also greatly improving aspects like graphics and voicing the player character and so on which are choices I completely approve of because we get one better story than 6 cheapened ones.

[Krytheos]

....Honestly, the Origins thing was just an example, and if they had DA:3 be Dragon Age 3: ORIGINS 2! It would be hilarious and confusing. Kind of like movie sequels, only less confusing. For instance, why the heck do you call three Final Destinations Final Destination, Final Destination 2, and Final Destination 3, then suddenly 'THE FINAL DESTINATION'?



Honestly, it could be even that in 2 we don't get Origins but in 3, we totally do, but they don't call it Origins 2. Who knows, really? It would still be confusing as hell to see the name.



"DRAGON AGE 2: ORIGINS' or 'DRAGON AGE 3: ORIGINS 2!' or heck, just name it DA3 and say Origins as a feature. It still doesn't make the whole thing any less confusing, just..weird.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well it happens occasionally



I mean there is



Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake

then Metal Gear Solid



Half-Life 2

Half-Life 2: Episode 1

Half-Life 2: Episode 2



So basically... Half-Life 2...2

[Krytheos]

....Yeah, it gets confusing, honestly. 'Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 3, Half-Life 3: EPISODE ZERO!'



Could be worse, though. Think about it; someone has a game named EPISODE ZERO: PART 1, then goes through with that, and at one point changes the name to EPISODE THREE: PART ZERO. I just hope no one actually sees this and makes EPISODE ZERO, 'cuz that would be like..the worst name for a game since Postal.



Even if Postal was an enjoyable game.

[KLUME777]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

I am fairly sure they are done with the "origins" part of the title......your average player....you know the ones that don't post on the forums only plays the game 1 to 3 times max so that places a lot of development time and resources into levels and game content that simply won't be experienced by most players......that is a very large waste and I am sure that it's why in DA2 you have a more pre-defined character. DAO too 5 years to make and DA2 is intended to be out early 2011....under a year and a half and while they are probably using the same engine they are also greatly improving aspects like graphics and voicing the player character and so on which are choices I completely approve of because we get one better story than 6 cheapened ones.

You realise that DAO took five years to make because thay had to think up and right the Whole Universe of Dragon Age, then write the Whole story of DAO, then write the Whol story of DA2, then write the Whole story of DA3, then creat the Whole engine of the game before they can even start on levels etc. All of that is already done with DA2, all they have to do is levels etc, and theyve probably already been at work on that for at least a good 7 months.

If you think Bioware is making the story up as they go along, your delusional. You do know that JK Rowling (writer of Harry Potter) already knew the whole plotline of the Harry Potter series before the first book even came out. A Good story/writer always writes the entire series before they release the first one.

[SithLordExarKun]

How did sales figures come in this time? I personally don't trust any source considering there are so many contradictions out there.



One website says 6.6 million

Another says 1.6 million

And then another one says 1.7 million

And now theres one that claim it sold 2 million in the first week : http://www.avault.co...on-copies-week/





Just three days after its release, EA has reported that Mass Effect 2 has already sold over 2 million copies. As you might guess, the folks over at Bioware are quite pleased with themselves. According to Ray Muzyka, “Mass Effect 2 is poised to be one of the biggest games of 2010. We could not be more proud of the game’s universal acclaim and early commercial success.”



That being said, who the fcuk cares? I enjoy the games for what it is. Not whether its an RPG, a shooter or an RTS.

[BomimoDK]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Oh good, I see the "If you don't like pure RPG's, you are teh stupidz" argument has migrated from the ME boards.

I look forward to the "Dissapointment with Dragon Age 2: An Open Discussion" circular argument fest.

It wouldn't be so bad it it was only that......if it were just that both people who play ME and DAO stlye RPGs and people who play just DAO style RPGs could get along but that doesn't happen. The reason is because the argument is actually:

"If you don't hate any non-pure RPG you are teh stupidz" which further divides the sides into people who like ME and people who don't like ME regardless of their appreciation for DAO style games.

Personaly I don't think that there's anything about the gameplay mechanics of either DAO or ME that inherently defines a game as being a RPG......it is the story, choices and possible story paths available to the player that lets the player step into the shoes of the character and play a role within the story. Games like Diablo and JRPGs should NOT in any way shape or form be associated with the RPG genre because you only play through a strictly linear and pre-written story where you have no say in the outcome of any given situation or decission therefore you are NOT playing a role......maybe that of a shopper since you constantly have to decide about shoes and armor and underwear but none of it has any impact on the world and story so they should not be allowed to carry the RPG tag that can fool those starting out in the genre.

Now that's just pure foolishness. The treasure, dungeon and gear oriented RPG has been around much longer than the storybased. DnD PnP sets are largely dungeon crawls and treasure hunts. Sure, you either have a light story or a heavy story to help it along, but it's always about the treasure at the bottom of the dungeon and the gear you get on your way there.

RPG is a very broad genre. In diablo games they use Character development with skills and gear. In JRPGs they rely heavily on the story and have limited gear/skill choices.

you'd have to be very closeminded or arrogant to state that only your kind of RPG is an RPG. by your standards, Mass Effect should not be labeled an RPG since it's got insanely limited skills and the sequel and no gear.

It's still an RPG and you know it. the Bioware Fantasy model (or traditional DnD model) isn't the only subgenre in RolePlaying Games. you need to understand that as much as the name of the genre implies RolePlaying, Character levelling and gear collecting was actually what laid the basis for the first DnD adventures.

I hate these pretentious elitist posts. you'll do well not to label any genre supperior in the future. "it's teh stupidz".

as much as i disliked the first ME... as much as i dislike FF 7-12 (the EMO saga) as much as i love the slaughter fest that is Diablo, as much as i adore the tactical combat and deep story of Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate. I'd never be arrogant enough to tell anyone which is an RPG and which isn't... they're all RPGs in certain ways.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has NO levelling what so ever and a pathetic story. yet many persieve it as one of the greatest Roleplaying shooters out there. who dictates wether it is indeed a shooter or an RPG? (ok, this one is rather grey... i know)

ARPG, JRPG, CRPG, WRPG, PnP-RPG= RPG. Easy as Betty Lou's pie.

[Rubbish Hero]

SithLordExarKun wrote...That being said, who the fcuk cares? I enjoy the games for what it is. Not whether its an RPG, a shooter or an RTS.

I wouldn't say that, money makes the world go round.
It's why games are getting banged out so fast these days. i.e. Force Unleashed 2, crap game, sold about 6-7 million.
Bioshock 2 only exists for profit, banged on MP to maximise sales.

[LiptonBrisk]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

The voice never detracted anything from the gameplay experience as long as it was appropriate for the character

Yes, but what is deemed appropriate is relatively subjective. Regardless, it shouldn't be too difficult to design an option to allow the player to disable the player character's voice.

and BioWare never had a shortcoming in this aspect

I disagree, but such judgements are relatively subjective. However, I would agree with anyone that suggests Shepard's voicing was better than Michael Thorton's (Obsidian Entertainment's Alpha Protocol). In Mass Effect, I was just mildly annoyed, whereas in Alpha Protocol I was tempted to turn off my speakers.

I don't really care or give a rat's behind about that character being or sounding like me

I care that the character I'm playing sounds like what I imagine him to sound like. That's roleplaying--and having voicing that I do not necessarily agree with forced upon me decidely detracts from my roleplaying experience.

Modifié par LiptonBrisk, 13 juillet 2010 - 03:10 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

I'm quite sure that the ME2 sales isn't as goog as they want. That's why they are doing a relaunch with new site, playable demo, and price cut.

[Darth_Trethon]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

I'm quite sure that the ME2 sales isn't as goog as they want. That's why they are doing a relaunch with new site, playable demo, and price cut.

Nope they are doing the website thing and price cut to increase the fan base for ME2......they wouldn't be able to affor a price cut if they weren't long past the break even point in terms of proffit.....they have one of the best games ever made on the market and since they reached the desired profits they are selling it for cheaper in order to increase their fanbase and increase the sales of ME3 when the time comes to lunch it. I hate to break it to you but non-profitable games aren't supported with more game content because it costs money and resources and there has to be a market for it large enough to make up the costs of development. Not to mention that if they increase their fan base they increase the ammount of people the purchase the DLCs which also brings them nice money.....they probably wouldn't be cutting the price if DLC wasn't bringing in nice sums of money.

[DA Trap Star]

Well according to Vgchartz , ME2 sold more than DA at least on consoles



http://www.vgchartz....e=mass effect 2'



http://www.vgchartz....s=50&sort=Total

[BomimoDK]

DA Trap Star wrote...

Well according to Vgchartz , ME2 sold more than DA at least on consoles

http://www.vgchartz....e=mass effect 2'

http://www.vgchartz....s=50&sort=Total

Yeah... we've seen that a few times now. I can't take that seriously. OFCOURSE ME outsold DA on consoles... DA is mainly PC oriented. ME is more mainstream. Get a hold of the sales on PC. I'm quite sure ME2 is the bigger success, but you can't prove that untill you start counting its main audience in these "derp mah gaem is kewler dan urs" contests.
It's like sampling Doom 1's influence on the FPS genre by looking at the 360 live arcade version... dead wrong.

[Bryy_Miller]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Oh good, I see the "If you don't like pure RPG's, you are teh stupidz" argument has migrated from the ME boards.

Some guy said my opinion was invalid because I did not like Penny Arcade.