465 réponses à ce sujet

[expwnit]

Game Informer's article makes me a bit more hopeful. New screenshots are awesome.

[GraciousCat]

Merci357 wrote...

Imho it's a fitting example of the general attitude of some, here.

Take Avatar. Clearly only a casual viewer could enjoy Avatar. The real elitist would never watch it, right? Since it was targeted at a very broad audience. Anyone with a real mind couldn't enjoy Avatar for what it is - Pocahontas in Space in gorgeous 3D, god forbid. He rather moans about what Avatar could have been.

That sounds so much like someone I know that it's flat-out weird...

[Tizle]

Vicious wrote...

Better yet, someone will put all the info on the forums where we can feast upon it.

i would love for someone to scan it and put it on the forums, well... put it as links where the text is actually legible.

[Addai]

filetemo wrote...

if avatar was the sequel of a movie with a touching story, deep character development and unfinished business of its main character, yes only a casual viewer could enjoy that sequel

Indeed.  At least you wouldn't be thrilled to hear that what you had come to expect from the original was being abandoned in favor of those who don't want to bother "reading and analyzing" but just want to point at a pretty color.

But the calculation seems to be that old-school roleplayers will take whatever bone is thrown to them anyway, since no one is making games like that, and the "don't make me read, it hurts my little eyes" crowd can be tempted away from their shooters.

[haberman13]

Addai67 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

if avatar was the sequel of a movie with a touching story, deep character development and unfinished business of its main character, yes only a casual viewer could enjoy that sequel

Indeed.  At least you wouldn't be thrilled to hear that what you had come to expect from the original was being abandoned in favor of those who don't want to bother "reading and analyzing" but just want to point at a pretty color.

But the calculation seems to be that old-school roleplayers will take whatever bone is thrown to them anyway, since no one is making games like that, and the "don't make me read, it hurts my little eyes" crowd can be tempted away from their shooters.

This is the way of all media currently - it costs a LOT less to churn out simplistic games/movies than it does to create a masterpiece.  (DA took 6+ yrs to complete!)

Look at this from a profit perspective: ~2 years and the same profits as a ~6 yr dev cycle

EA would be foolish to allow Bioware to do anything but create the "ME2" experience in all their games.

And yes, everyone will buy it regardless (for awhile at least).

Modifié par haberman13, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:05 .

[lunarknightmage]

for those who have read the article, do they mention if specializations will still be in the game, and how they will be changed/improved?



thanks.

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...
Indeed.  At least you wouldn't be thrilled to hear that what you had come to expect from the original was being abandoned in favor of those who don't want to bother "reading and analyzing" but just want to point at a pretty color.

But the calculation seems to be that old-school roleplayers will take whatever bone is thrown to them anyway, since no one is making games like that, and the "don't make me read, it hurts my little eyes" crowd can be tempted away from their shooters.

Knock it off--you know condescending insults aren't allowed here. 

Modifié par Riona45, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:39 .

[frankenfinger08]

i'm still impatiently waiting for my issue of GI to arrive in the mail....grrrr!

[Estel78]

haberman13 wrote...

This is the way of all media currently - it costs a LOT less to churn out simplistic games/movies than it does to create a masterpiece.  (DA took 6+ yrs to complete!)

Look at this from a profit perspective: ~2 years and the same profits as a ~6 yr dev cycle

EA would be foolish to allow Bioware to do anything but create the "ME2" experience in all their games.

And yes, everyone will buy it regardless (for awhile at least).

Comparing DAO's 6 years to DA2's 2 and a half is foolish. First of all, i doubt a full team worked on DAO for 6 years, first year or two was world building (coming up with the nations/backstories and all that stuff) and tech building stage (programing the engine) with probably only a handful of devs working on it. The brunt of the work happens afterwards (writing the script, doing levels, graphics etc). Secondly, DA2 was already in development before DAO even came out so the dev cycle is really longer than 2 and a half years, plus the world and engine is already in place, which speeds things up considerably.

Modifié par Estel78, 14 juillet 2010 - 05:02 .

[AloraKast]

Just picked up a copy of the new GameInformer and one thought has already struck me:



While flipping through the article (on lunch break at work, no time to properly immerse myself in the article itself), the thing that jumps out at me is the graphics in the screenshots. I seriously hope these are just the alpha shots, because if this is the direction the graphics are heading in DA2... I am sorry, but this game should have had a different title than Dragon Age. Some screenshots have already been posted on another thread and you can see for yourself. I am a little worried. Ah... wait and see, wait and see...



*continues to chant this mantra*

[Addai]

haberman13 wrote...

This is the way of all media currently - it costs a LOT less to churn out simplistic games/movies than it does to create a masterpiece.  (DA took 6+ yrs to complete!)

Look at this from a profit perspective: ~2 years and the same profits as a ~6 yr dev cycle

EA would be foolish to allow Bioware to do anything but create the "ME2" experience in all their games.

And yes, everyone will buy it regardless (for awhile at least).

Doesn't mean we have to like it, or not call a spade a spade.  The people who do care about such things need to demand better.

[Addai]

Riona45 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Indeed.  At least you wouldn't be thrilled to hear that what you had come to expect from the original was being abandoned in favor of those who don't want to bother "reading and analyzing" but just want to point at a pretty color.

But the calculation seems to be that old-school roleplayers will take whatever bone is thrown to them anyway, since no one is making games like that, and the "don't make me read, it hurts my little eyes" crowd can be tempted away from their shooters.

Knock it off--you know condescending insults aren't allowed here. 

It's only condescending if you own it.

The fact is, the GI interview uses that very wording- an advantage being touted of the new game is that you won't have to read and analyze your response before you give it.

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...

It's only condescending if you own it.

I thought you didn't want to be written off as a "whiner."  You, in turn, should at least be civil towards people who don't see things the way you do.

[Addai]

Riona45 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

It's only condescending if you own it.

I thought you didn't want to be written off as a "whiner."  You, in turn, should at least be civil towards people who don't see things the way you do.

I don't care about being "written off."  My point earlier was that the forum exists for a reason, and for criticism of the announced changes as much as for "wooh cool" reactions.

However, you're right that these comments were less than constructive.  There is some irony, nevertheless, that reading and analyzing is portrayed as being a bad thing in a roleplaying game.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 juillet 2010 - 05:56 .

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...


I don't care about being "written off."  My point earlier was that the forum exists for a reason, and for criticism of the announced changes as much as for "wooh cool" reactions.

In other words, you don't want your criticism written off.

However, you're right that my comments were less than constructive.

That is a massive understatement.

There is some irony, nevertheless, that reading and analyzing is portrayed as being a bad thing in a roleplaying game.

Quote please.

[Addai]

Riona45 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


I don't care about being "written off."  My point earlier was that the forum exists for a reason, and for criticism of the announced changes as much as for "wooh cool" reactions.

In other words, you don't want your criticism written off.

No.  In other words, the subject now has changed.  The subject now is the fact that a certain mentality is dictating all entertainment choices.  And it sucks.

[There is some irony, nevertheless, that reading and analyzing is portrayed as being a bad thing in a roleplaying game.

Quote please.

"Not only will Hawke speak, but you will also have a new way to select his responses. Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's, where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel. An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic intent (like aggressive or sarcastic), so you can focus more on the interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."

Modifié par Addai67, 14 juillet 2010 - 06:13 .

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...

No.  In other words, the subject now has changed.  The subject now is the fact that a certain mentality is dictating all entertainment choices.  And it sucks.

Not sure what your point even is there, so I won't comment.

"Not only will Hawke speak, but you will also have a new way to select his responses. Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's, where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel. An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic intent (like aggressive or sarcastic), so you can focus more on the interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."

That's just an explanation (albeit strangely worded) of how they are trying to make the dialogue choices more clear.  It's not a declaration that reading and analyzing is bad, or that there will be no reading or analyzing whatsoever in DA2 (I know in the first game it helped with understanding the world, at least).

Besides, I think you (and the other people making this argument) should stop acting like picking lines from a dialogue tree was a great intellectual feat that required deep reading and critical analysis.  You are not "above the common herd" just because you dislike the new conversation mechanic in a video game.

[Addai]

Riona45 wrote...
That's just an explanation (albeit strangely worded) of how they are trying to make the dialogue choices more clear. 

 How can it be more clear if I'm not even sure what the PC is going to say?

It's not a declaration that reading and analyzing is bad, or that there will be no reading or analyzing whatsoever in DA2 (I know in the first game it helped with understanding the world, at least).

I'm sure there will be codex and the like.  I'm talking about thoughtful roleplay.

Besides, I think you (and the other people making this argument) should stop acting like picking lines from a dialogue tree was a great intellectual feat that required deep reading and critical analysis.  You are not "above the common herd" just because you dislike the new conversation mechanic in a video game.

Ok, you've got your snark in and I deserved it.  Truce.

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...


Ok, you've got your snark in and I deserved it.  Truce.

Fine.

[Addai]

Let me ask you this:  What is the advantage of choosing a paraphrase over exact wording?

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...

Let me ask you this:  What is the advantage of choosing a paraphrase over exact wording?

I thought we just called a truce.  You want to start arguing with me all over again?

[Addai]

Riona45 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Let me ask you this:  What is the advantage of choosing a paraphrase over exact wording?

I thought we just called a truce.  You want to start arguing with me all over again?

I'm asking a sincere question.  If you don't want to answer, that's certainly your prerogative.  Perhaps someone else will pick up the subject.  Or not.

[NicZerus]

This game looks so bad .
why bioware why!!! 

[Lord_Saulot]

Addai67 wrote...

Let me ask you this:  What is the advantage of choosing a paraphrase over exact wording?

I don't know about anyone else, but it confused the hell out of me in Leliana's Song.  I prefer the actual wording.

[Riona45]

Addai67 wrote...


I'm asking a sincere question.  If you don't want to answer, that's certainly your prerogative.  Perhaps someone else will pick up the subject.  Or not.

OK, but...I have addressed this topic in other threads, and you have to understand that I come from a position that likes the idea of a fully voiced character.  If you are set against a fully voiced character, that's fine, but I have the feeling you won't "get" why I'm OK with the new dialogue system.  Your question is somewhat open-ended and I'm just going to give you my perspective, not give you a point-by-point list of the pros and cons of the dialogue wheel.

In my opinion dialogue in a video game isn't mine in the first place--someone else wrote it, and there have been plenty of times where I wanted to say something but didn't fit what I would have picked if I really had my choice of what to say.  I do play pen and paper games, and there I literally will voice my characters.  However, I don't expect that experience in a video game, and I think having a fully rendered but silent PC in a world of fully voiced NPCs actually hurts immersion somewhat.  I loved the ME games and never felt that the fully voiced protagonist took me out of the story, or that I didn't have control over her.  Also, notice how with the dialogue tree, most of the replies are short, tense sentences, whereas NPCs can go on and on  as they please.  It generally feels like they are the ones leading the conversation.  With the voiced PC (as in Mass Effect), conversations feel more "natural" to me, and the PC is actually on equal footing with the NPCs.  Yeah, you don't get to choose exactly what they're saying...but then, you never did that with the dialogue tree either.

I hope that at least sorta kinda give you my answer to your question.

Modifié par Riona45, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:04 .