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[The Elite Elite]

ThomasAndrew wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

From reading that section of the article they seem to say that the PC version is pretty much the same, while the console versions have been upgraded to have the action feel faster and more responsive than Origins did.

Edit: Woah, lots of posts past what I was replying to. Alright I'll try to answer what I can.

PC combat is going to remain pretty much the way it currently is. It's the console versions that are being upgraded.

It doesn't talk about the conversation system in great detail. Just says "Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's, where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel. An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic intent (like aggressive or sarcastice), so you can focus more on the interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."

It made no mention of the dialogue system with party members. Thanks though, I hope the articale is copy pasted somewhere or there is scans.

So the 10 page artical had nothing about the combat changes. Meh.

All it really said was that the PC version will have the same ability to "examine the battlefield closely, make decisions from a top-down view, and direct your party like a general." They say they got to play the Xbox 360 version and they can "confirm that it is faster, more responsive, and more fluid than before. As soon as you press a button, something happens. As a warrior, Hawke threw down special strikes and used a new dash move to slash through darkspawn with ease. It isn't on the Dynasty Warriors side of the spectrum, but with obvious improvements to the targeting system and animations, playing Dragon Age II with a controller finally feels natural."

[Herr Uhl]

The Elite Elite wrote...

All it really said was that the PC version will have the same ability to "examine the battlefield closely, make decisions from a top-down view, and direct your party like a general." They say they got to play the Xbox 360 version and they can "confirm that it is faster, more responsive, and more fluid than before. As soon as you press a button, something happens. As a warrior, Hawke threw down special strikes and used a new dash move to slash through darkspawn with ease. It isn't on the Dynasty Warriors side of the spectrum, but with obvious improvements to the targeting system and animations, playing Dragon Age II with a controller finally feels natural."

*sighs in relief*

[foo man chew]

What does the battle system for the consoles mean.I hope its not what i think a watered down less rpg more hack n slash casual experience.You know because us console gamers all have the minds of a 12 year old and only play shooters.

[ThomasAndrew]

The Elite Elite wrote...

ThomasAndrew wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

From reading that section of the article they seem to say that the PC version is pretty much the same, while the console versions have been upgraded to have the action feel faster and more responsive than Origins did.

Edit: Woah, lots of posts past what I was replying to. Alright I'll try to answer what I can.

PC combat is going to remain pretty much the way it currently is. It's the console versions that are being upgraded.

It doesn't talk about the conversation system in great detail. Just says "Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's, where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel. An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic intent (like aggressive or sarcastice), so you can focus more on the interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."

It made no mention of the dialogue system with party members. Thanks though, I hope the articale is copy pasted somewhere or there is scans.

So the 10 page artical had nothing about the combat changes. Meh.

All it really said was that the PC version will have the same ability to "examine the battlefield closely, make decisions from a top-down view, and direct your party like a general." They say they got to play the Xbox 360 version and they can "confirm that it is faster, more responsive, and more fluid than before. As soon as you press a button, something happens. As a warrior, Hawke threw down special strikes and used a new dash move to slash through darkspawn with ease. It isn't on the Dynasty Warriors side of the spectrum, but with obvious improvements to the targeting system and animations, playing Dragon Age II with a controller finally feels natural."

Thanks for this, I'm sure you'll be bombarded with more questions. If the gameplay is similar to dragon age origins I'm happy.

[Merci357]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Well from what they said about the icon thing I get the feeling that the types of choices will be more varied from the simple "good, neutral, evil" stes and go more along the lines of "agressive, kind, sarcastic, etc".

OK. Now I've never played ME2, so I can only go on what I've read.

I thought basically Shepard always had two and only two conversational responses to most situations ... a "Paragon" (good) response and a "Renegade" (evil) response. 

This whole picking from a wheel thing kind of bothers me. It's a dumbing down of rpg-conversation. Why not let me decide what I consider a sarcastic, aggressive, or ingratiating response to a person, instead of the wheel giving me some kind of "cue" (whether a color or icon) as to the "nature" of my response on the wheel? IOW, I don't even have to READ the dialogue I'm about to say before just deciding beforehand "who cares, I'll just pick the nice, friendly, ingratiating response" .... erg.  

This also seems to hint to me that Intimidation and Persuasion won't be part of conversation options anymore.

I'm not sure I like this. 

Just pick up the 1st ME when it's again for sale on steam for 2,50$ and try it for yourself just once? You are pondering over ME since a few month...

Paragon/Renegade responses are, if shown coloured, used as intimidate/persuade options. Depending on the dialogue you sometimes have up to 5 choices, it isn't that different, however the position on the wheel indicates the "nice", the neutral and the "bad" tone of your response, and that's important because the wording on the wheel often isn't the same Shepard will say, but only a paraphrase.

[CybAnt1]

DAO dialogue was the same way, but without the paragon/renegade labels.

Don't agree, I remember several cases where I had about 5-6 dialogue options for a key conversational moment. 

I think I would rather decide for myself what is a "nice" or "tough" response than be given some kind of cue as to which is which. Not that it isn't self evident, I mean it's fairly obvious that

"Alistair, you are a whiny douchebag" is the mean response and
"Alistair, I really appreciate your witticisms" is the nice one

I just don't like having to be "cued" which is which. It's further dumbing down. 

[AmstradHero]

CybAnt1 wrote...
This whole picking from a wheel thing kind of bothers me. It's a dumbing down of rpg-conversation. Why not let me decide what I consider a sarcastic, aggressive, or ingratiating response to a person, instead of the wheel giving me some kind of "cue" (whether a color or icon) as to the "nature" of my response on the wheel? IOW, I don't even have to READ the dialogue I'm about to say before just deciding beforehand "who cares, I'll just pick the nice, friendly, ingratiating response" .... erg.  

Actually... adding icons to indicate the tone of a response makes the process of choosing better, as certain emotions do not translate well into text. How do you know if your character going to be sarcastic in the delivery of a line? What about a joke? What about lying to a character? Oh, that's right, we have to have (Lie) or (Truth) or something else at the start of those occasional lines to tell us exactly what we're doing. If we have icons, maybe we can have those kind of interesting responses occur more often.

Seriously, if you actually think about the possibilities here instead of just going "Oh, I can just always pick the nice response", then you're failing to see the potential advantages.

Besides, you're complaining that you can now always pick the "nice" response by clicking on the dialogue with the "nice" icon. I have a news flash for you: you can do exactly the same thing now by always picking the first dialogue option.

[CybAnt1]

Just pick up the 1st ME when it's again for sale on steam for 2,50$ and try it for yourself just once? You are pondering over ME since a few month...

If it really uses this "wheel" system than I can see another reason I'm glad I never tried it ... I don't want any kind of color/position cue for my dialogue, I would rather read the dialogue for myself and decide whether or not it's aggressive, nice, mean, insulting, good, evil ... then have the game provide that for me ... that's hand holding I don't want. 

[kraidy1117]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Well from what they said about the icon thing I get the feeling that the types of choices will be more varied from the simple "good, neutral, evil" stes and go more along the lines of "agressive, kind, sarcastic, etc".

OK. Now I've never played ME2, so I can only go on what I've read.

I thought basically Shepard always had two and only two conversational responses to most situations ... a "Paragon" (good) response and a "Renegade" (evil) response. 

This whole picking from a wheel thing kind of bothers me. It's a dumbing down of rpg-conversation. Why not let me decide what I consider a sarcastic, aggressive, or ingratiating response to a person, instead of the wheel giving me some kind of "cue" (whether a color or icon) as to the "nature" of my response on the wheel? IOW, I don't even have to READ the dialogue I'm about to say before just deciding beforehand "who cares, I'll just pick the nice, friendly, ingratiating response" .... erg.  

This also seems to hint to me that Intimidation and Persuasion won't be part of conversation options anymore.

I'm not sure I like this. 

There is more then two options in ME and ME2, and there is alos a investagte option that gives you detail.

[TheMufflon]

So, there's good and bad news: We get the conversation wheel (which I disliked in ME, and which I will probably hate in DA 2), but we get to keep the same combat system.

[Demx]

saphirekosmos wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

Alright, just finished reading the DA2 article in my GI mag. WARNING! I am going to be posting some of the things that really stand out. (To me anyway) So if you don't want to know, skip my post.

1) We will be able to import our DA:O games into DA2.

2) We will see Flemeth at some point.

3) Pissing off party members won't always be a bad thing. "They won't necessarily leave. They may still join you, but they're going to try to show you up, and that may influence battle in a different way."

4) We're getting the ME2 conversation wheel, but this time instead of having some dialogue be a particular color the center of the wheel will show a symbol to show what kind of reply it is. (The article uses the examples of them being something like aggressive or sarcastic)

5) The way the story unfolds will be very different compared to the past Bioware games. "Dragon Age II has a framed narrative structure, which means that the exploits of Hawke occured in the past, but are being retold in the present." "Narrators with unique insights into the events in question tell the tale of his past adventures."

6) We may get to see some of the DA:O events at the start from a different perspective. "Dragon Age II begins as the events of Origins are still taking place, so you may see some familiar events from a different angle."

7) Because of the game spanning a decade, we get to see the consequences of our actions sooner, rather than in a little text at the end of the game.

8) The PC version's combat system remains mostly the same. "The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme." "Rather than try to mimic the PC experience on consoles, Dragon Age II has a battle system more tailored to the strengths of the PS3 and 360."

Nice summery. Only thing I read a bit differently is that they didn't exactly say that you can import your DA:O game, just that your decisions would carry over, even if you play on a different system. Only thing that I would add is this:

They seem to be wanting to add more specilizations.

They also want to make the different classes feel different.

They want to have more combos, like the spells in DA:O only with powers to. Example they gave: Warrior uses sunder armor followed by a rouges backstab will cause a greater effect.

They said they want to add more depth to the spells, like being able to customize them somewhat.

Because they are using the Narritive story thing they stated that they may jump around between key points. So after Big battle a the story jumps forward a bit. Kind of reminds me of how Assass in's Creed did it.

Looks like I will be called Ezio Hawke.

[CybAnt1]

Besides, you're complaining that you can now always pick the "nice" response by clicking on the dialogue with the "nice" icon. I have a news flash for you: you can do exactly the same thing now by always picking the first dialogue option.

People seem to be saying that, but I don't recall that. To be honest, it's never something I ever really paid a great deal of attention to. And I could be recalling wrong, but I definitely seem to remember times where the first dialogue options for a particular conversation were rude/insulting/mean, and the later dialogue options were nice/friendly/ingratiating. 

In any case, even if every dialogue was structured that way (and it seems to go against my memory of the game), there at least was no explicit way in which things were cued. I mean, honestly, even if it were true, then I never really noticed and applied the concept "the first dialogue option is always the nicest" ... at least they didn't come out and explicitly point that out to you. 

[Jestina]

It's sounding like an expansion pack with some ME2 code slapped on it, so they can meet a deadline.

[epoch_]

pics of the magazine or you're a troll.

[tmp7704]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Besides, you're complaining that you can now always pick the "nice" response by clicking on the dialogue with the "nice" icon. I have a news flash for you: you can do exactly the same thing now by always picking the first dialogue option.

People seem to be saying that, but I don't recall that.

It's because that's --like all extreme generalizations-- not really true. On quite a few occasions the first option is (intimidate) check to threaten someone into doing things your way. Other times it can be a "nice" option or it can be request for more information. Similarly, the options toward bottom can be harsher or more manipulative, but just as well it can be requests for info, separate sub-branches or the "i have to go kthxbye" thing.

[Herr Uhl]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Besides, you're complaining that you can now always pick the "nice" response by clicking on the dialogue with the "nice" icon. I have a news flash for you: you can do exactly the same thing now by always picking the first dialogue option.

People seem to be saying that, but I don't recall that. To be honest, it's never something I ever really paid a great deal of attention to. And I could be recalling wrong, but I definitely seem to remember times where the first dialogue options for a particular conversation were rude/insulting/mean, and the later dialogue options were nice/friendly/ingratiating. 

In any case, even if every dialogue was structured that way (and it seems to go against my memory of the game), there at least was no explicit way in which things were cued. I mean, honestly, even if it were true, then I never really noticed and applied the concept "the first dialogue option is always the nicest" ... at least they didn't come out and explicitly point that out to you. 

You are right. Responses are not ordered in any specific way in Origins.

[Kohaku]

If the conversation wheel is true that is the only thing that gives me pause. I can't stand it in Mass Effect because nothing is remotely close to what you pick when the character says it.

[CybAnt1]

Correct. THAT statement conforms more to my memory of dialogue in the game then the other one that people are claiming. That said, it may well be the case that nicer options TEND to be higher and meaner options TEND to be lower, but as I said, I was never really scrutinizing things that closely.



Even still, you can't be sure that response X or Y is always the nicest or meanest possible response, **without reading it**, which is my key point.

[BanditGR]

The Elite Elite wrote...



4) We're getting the ME2 conversation wheel, but this time instead of having some dialogue be a particular color the center of the wheel will show a symbol to show what kind of reply it is. (The article uses the examples of them being something like aggressive or sarcastic).

[tmp7704]

CybAnt1 wrote...

That said, it may well be the case that nicer options TEND to be higher and meaner options TEND to be lower, but as I said, I was never really scrutinizing things that closely.

Yes, there does seem to bo something like this in effect, it's just not really universal to the point where it becomes a guaranteed thing.

[Brockololly]

Much like Awakening, its the dialogue system that now has me most worried...

[Sirsmirkalot]

A dialogue wheel, great. Now I can guess again what my character will say. Nothing is wrong with the dialogue system Dragon Age uses. It worked perfect in dozens of games before and simply doesn't need change.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:06 .

[Blacklash93]

How do the graphics look? Besides the new 'Brutal Legend-esque' art style, does it look look like a step up from origins in terms of quality?

[epoch_]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

A dialogue wheel, great. Now I can guess again what my character will say.

Nothing is wrong with the dialogue system Dragon Age uses. It worked perfect in dozens of games before and simply doesn't need change.

It needs to change because the console gamers can't be bothered to read anything.

[The Elite Elite]

Blacklash93 wrote...

How do the graphics look? Besides the new 'Brutal Legend-esque' art style, does it look look like a step up from origins in terms of quality?

It does look like a step up from Origins' graphics, but they still didn't look that great IMO.